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Skeptical about Energy Work
Folks -
There previously was a discussion on this site in which a skeptical attitude toward energy work was being discussed, but that discussion eventually got deleted. The reason seems to be that it was judged not to belong in the location where it was taking place, which was inside one of the energy work groups.
I was the person who introduced the skepticism to the discussion. Some people did not appreciate that, but others did. Given how many participants there are on this site, and how many threads and groups are dedicated to discussing energy work with no skepticism, I thought maybe it was time to open a discussion where such skepticism is invited and welcomed.
I look forward to seeing how this discussion might develop. Is there interest?
-CM
There previously was a discussion on this site in which a skeptical attitude toward energy work was being discussed, but that discussion eventually got deleted. The reason seems to be that it was judged not to belong in the location where it was taking place, which was inside one of the energy work groups.
I was the person who introduced the skepticism to the discussion. Some people did not appreciate that, but others did. Given how many participants there are on this site, and how many threads and groups are dedicated to discussing energy work with no skepticism, I thought maybe it was time to open a discussion where such skepticism is invited and welcomed.
I look forward to seeing how this discussion might develop. Is there interest?
-CM
Views: 3109
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Bert Davich on
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Vlad,
The UK-Skeptics site is interesting. If you like that you might enjoy the podcast called "The Skeptics Guide To The Universe"
The link doesn't seem to be showing so here it is. You may have to type it in.
www.theskepticsguide.org
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Permalink Reply by Christopher A. Moyer on
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Vlad said:
That's a nice site. It also has nice summaries of the ideomotor effect and the Clever Hans effect, both of which are relevant to this thread's topic.
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Permalink Reply by Vlad on
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Yep. Their forum discussions and blogs are interesting too, like their discussion on critical thinking in schools.
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Speaking of critical thinking,
I just read something on another discussion on this site which challenged my commitment not to start conflict. While I believe we are energetic beings and it is possible to affect the overall health of a client by changing their energetic state, regardless of where the energy comes from, this ridiculous unsupported claim is out of line.
I welcome comment on this post which I can only say is not just ridiculous, but detrimental to the profession of Massage Therapy. This drivel does not belong in the Massage Therapy world. It belongs in the world of superstition and magic.
I am not going to specify the specific post, (unless I am pressed to do so) but here is what the therapist claimed to perform under the auspices of Massage. Something they called "Shamballa Multidimensional Healing" I found the website at http://www.shamballasoul.com/ I assert this is superstitious drivel.
Vlad said:Yep. Their forum discussions and blogs are interesting too, like their discussion on critical thinking in schools.
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Permalink Reply by Laura Allen on
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I have to say, Bert, that I have seen many, many things like this website, and it was one of the reasons I left my job at the massage school that I dearly loved. The management got involved in a group that I could only describe as a cult, and the center of their philosophy was "connecting your strands of DNA." They promised you that if you followed their path, you could have X amount of strands connected until you had joined the ranks of the Ascended Masters, blah blah blah. AND if you pissed them off in some way, they would "unconnect" your strands as punishment. And it costs a lot of money to be one of their members.
I could not believe that someone who was highly educated, with the intelligence to run a successful business, could get sucked into such obvious claptrap. The owners of this organization, which incidentally is still thriving out there in the world---I visit their website every once in awhile to see what kind of miraculous claims they're making these days---claim to be the reincarnation of every virtuous person that's ever lived. I choked on it when I saw the female leader claiming to be Mary Magdalene, Queen Elizabeth, Guinnevere, etc and the man (her "twin flame") claiming to be King Arthur, the Buddha, etc. It it just beyond my comprehension that reasonable people can get sucked into that. And yet, they do.
I have a friend right now who has been sucked into a similar organization that is claiming the same thing---connecting your DNA strands as you "ascend" in consciousness. I refuse to even discuss it with her. This is a woman who has owned a very successful business, worked hard all her life, and then suddenly goes off the deep end on this.
I believe in energy work---or whatever you want to call it---I really like Stefanie's suggestion of "somatic awareness"--and that may well be what it is. I don't think everything in the world can be reduced to a scientific measurement. So I may be totally wrong in thinking these people are crazy, and I will concede that anyone is free to do anything that makes them feel good or join any organization that they feel serves them. I just can't buy it myself. I think I could stand here and chant in unknown tongues and receive all the energy the universe has to offer until the cows come home, and my DNA is still going to be exactly what it is.
Bert Davich said:Speaking of critical thinking,
I just read something on another discussion on this site which challenged my commitment not to start conflict. While I believe we are energetic beings and it is possible to affect the overall health of a client by changing their energetic state, regardless of where the energy comes from, this ridiculous unsupported claim is out of line.
I welcome comment on this post which I can only say is not just ridiculous, but detrimental to the profession of Massage Therapy. This drivel does not belong in the Massage Therapy world. It belongs in the world of superstition and magic.
I am not going to specify the specific post, (unless I am pressed to do so) but here is what the therapist claimed to perform under the auspices of Massage. Something they called "Shamballa Multidimensional Healing" I found the website at http://www.shamballasoul.com/ I assert this is superstitious drivel.
Vlad said:Yep. Their forum discussions and blogs are interesting too, like their discussion on critical thinking in schools.
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Permalink Reply by Travis Alligood on
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Christopher,
Id like to share my thought to this topic, Excellent subject, this forum appears to be drawing a wonderful amount of energy, so with that said, I think we should take this energy we have AND ALL AT ONCE send it to our Carribean neighbors and pray for their safety and recovery. Peace Travis
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Permalink Reply by Darcy Neibaur on
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Great Thoughts Travis! I am with you on this one.
Travis Alligood said:Christopher,
Id like to share my thought to this topic, Excellent subject, this forum appears to be drawing a wonderful amount of energy, so with that said, I think we should take this energy we have AND ALL AT ONCE send it to our Carribean neighbors and pray for their safety and recovery. Peace Travis
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Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding!!!!
Yes!!! We HAVE HIT 300 POSTS!!!!!
YAYYYYYYYYY!!!!!
Let's celebrate with a comical interlude:
Fellow Skeptipeeps and Skeptiskeptipeeps (those that are skeptical of skeptics :D),
It's not often you get a tricenthread. Of course, sometimes big longs threads like this have a habit of having some repetition in them......but then again.....sometimes repetition can be rather funny.
Please note: one should sing the spam song at the beginning of the clip to make it even better.
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I'd like to introduce a new subtopic at this point in the thread. Bert recently stated "I believe we are energetic beings and it is possible to affect the overall health of a client by changing their energetic state." I have seen and heard similar statements from energy work proponents, so perhaps this captures the way a lot of people think about this. Does it?
If it does, I'd like to ask this - what does it mean to say that we are "energetic"?
This question is not only for Bert - though I hope he might answer it - but for anyone who takes this position and would like to attempt to explain it.
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Permalink Reply by Robin Byler Thomas on
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Yes Travis; perhaps we can collectively send positive energy to Haiti.
To be energetic? Depends on the context of course, and we have been talking about this for some time. It does seem to me to have a lot of psychology behind it. In other words, we MT's can effect change in a client by our own affect. When a client feels anxiety our calm presence will decrease their anxiety. When a client is depressed we effect change simply by not being depressed. Then, of course, the mechanical act of massage has its own physiological effect on depression and anxiety.
In another example, sometimes I feel my energy is low; I might more accurately say my immunity is low, and vice versa.
I also feel, like Stephanie, we all have the innate ability to heal from within, and we guide our clients to also feel this sense of empowerment. This exchange might be considered energetic by some and psychological by others. I believe feeling better after a MT session is a combination of many things including the client/therapist relationship, the clients belief system, the therapists skills and experience, the placebo effect, the environment, the time the client is taking for themselves, and the attention and nurturing they're receiving; but it does take an open mind for most changes to progress. We may have to get ourselves (ego) out of the way first to help our clients but I don't believe there is a separate entity at work.
Perhaps this is also another subtopic but I do not see Cranial Sacral work (CS), Reflexology, TCM, Thai Massage, Homeopathy, Ayurvedic, or Naturopathic Medicine as energy work. I see them as separate modalities (CS and Reflexology) and whole systems of medicine that incorporate many modalities to approach each individual on several levels to effect a positive health outcome; similar to Massage Therapy.
How do others see this list? Would you add to them or shuffle them in some way? What about Polarity; I haven't decided where it fits yet? If used as a tool and not thought of as utilizing an entity I am all for it. BTW, none of my MT training ever suggested energy work involved a separate entity.
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Permalink Reply by Julianna Holden Mohler on
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I don't have time at the moment to read all the discussion since I last posted. I've been in the hospital, utilizing science to heal my freakin' gall bladder. =)
I just wanted everyone to know I have not backed off or down from this subject, I'm too drugged on codeine to make any rational sense of the continued comments.
But, I want to just throw this out there. Pseudoscience of psychology. Let's all study that while we're at it. Shock therapy, lobotomies, putting people in mental hospitals when they actually had syphilis, driving gay people into suicide by giving them hormonal therapy to steer them from homosexuality, shock therapy for people who had seizures, straight jackets to prohibit masturbation, cocaine, heroin and, well you get the picture.
I'd say that even if energy work didn't exist and it was merely a placebo effect, it couldn't possibly give anyone the kind of and amount of harm psychotherapy, in the name of "science based evidence" has done. Let's fix the big problems, folks. =)
Now, maybe I need to call some of my good friends and have them bring over their crystals, chant over me, pray, lay on of hands, dowse me, and whatever they wanna do to heal this freakin' pain I'm in cuz I'm telling ya, the scientific way isn't helping!
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I hope you heal soon.
Julianna Holden Mohler said:I don't have time at the moment to read all the discussion since I last posted. I've been in the hospital, utilizing science to heal my freakin' gall bladder. =)
I just wanted everyone to know I have not backed off or down from this subject, I'm too drugged on codeine to make any rational sense of the continued comments.
But, I want to just throw this out there. Pseudoscience of psychology. Let's all study that while we're at it. Shock therapy, lobotomies, putting people in mental hospitals when they actually had syphilis, driving gay people into suicide by giving them hormonal therapy to steer them from homosexuality, shock therapy for people who had seizures, straight jackets to prohibit masturbation, cocaine, heroin and, well you get the picture.
I'd say that even if energy work didn't exist and it was merely a placebo effect, it couldn't possibly give anyone the kind of and amount of harm psychotherapy, in the name of "science based evidence" has done. Let's fix the big problems, folks. =)
Now, maybe I need to call some of my good friends and have them bring over their crystals, chant over me, pray, lay on of hands, dowse me, and whatever they wanna do to heal this freakin' pain I'm in cuz I'm telling ya, the scientific way isn't helping!
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