Advanced Certification For Instructors?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Mike Hinkle on November 2, 2009 at 10:06am

Hi Shoshana, I am not an instructor either. I would say to contact someone else that has created a modality, like Nathalie Cecelia who brought us bamboo Fusion or Ruthie Piper-Hardee that invented Ashiatsu. The are instructors and innovators in the business.

shoshana said:

Hi Mike,,,I have question that I m not sure how to put it in right words,,
Well I m not instructor,working for many years as massage therapy,and I always think how I can make my client feel better, The last few weeks I have come with new Technique, that I practice in my work and not only that I change peopl's body,,they like it very much,,I get commets like"I dont know what you do but I feel great"
I dont know how to name this ,,I m not DC DR but I can explain why it is good and what does it do to the body,,,
well my question is since I m not instructor,,how can I teach others therapy to use it ,or in other words what makes instructor better then me????
shoshana LA

Permalink Reply by Mike Hinkle on November 2, 2009 at 10:08am

Thank you for sharing, Patricia!

Patricia J. Pape said:

Hi Mike - I'm all for more education. I'm not a Continuing Ed provider, I've taught sciences, hands-on and ethics in basic massage education programs - each quite different. I had no problems with lesson plan design, content delivery and keeping students with different learning styles engaged.

Although I am not teaching just now, I think I could have benefited from some classroom management instruction. Some of the students in the post-secondary vocational ed programs simply don't want to be there. Additionally, guidelines around helping students to manage the 'stuff' that comes up for everyone experiencing a quantum leap in the amount of bodywork they're receiving (massage students) would be beneficial, as well. Many students show up so very damaged.

By the time someone enrolls in an advanced certification setting, I think those things are pretty well handled. I think if I wanted to teach something on an advanced level, I would absolutely want to be more than a content expert.

PJ Pape
LMT Clinton, CT

Permalink Reply by Mike Hinkle on November 2, 2009 at 10:11am

Hi Stan,

I'm glad to see a school owner "step up" and ask for standards! I will pass it on, thanks.

Stan Dawson said:

As a school owner and a teacher, I think that we need a basic set of standards for teachers that is focused on both content knowledge and "how to teach" skills. There are teacher training courses and a recent book from ABMP and Lippincott on teaching massage out there in the market. If the all of the schools or even most of them required such training for their teachers, these teacher training programs could not handle the demand. A larger program would be needed to accomplish widespread credentialing of teachers.

I do not believe that we need advanced certification for instructors. Until and unless we establish a basic standard for massage instructors, why would we need an advanced standard? I think where we do need some advanced standards is for continuing ed providers. In the classes that present content that is not typically taught in basic massage school curricula, advanced certification or advanced standards might be necessary.

Permalink Reply by Mike Hinkle on November 2, 2009 at 10:15am

You did the best you could with what you knew. But now you know better, by having attended the classes. I think that's more of what they want, to teach folks a little more before they get on the floor to teach. Thanks Peggy!

Peggy Lamb said:

Personally I would love to take classes on more effective teaching strategies. Just because someone has advanced skills does not make him/her a good teacher. I'm sure we've all experienced teachers who may be good clinicians but their teaching skills leave a lot to be desired. In my workshops for the last year, I've been concentrating on my speech rhythms and cadence. This came about because I took a class on the ankle from a PT, who is probably a great clinician but I couldn't understand half of what he said because he spoke so fast and his words ran together. An integral part of teaching is public speaking and I cringe to think of my early teaching when I didn't pay attention to the rhythm and cadence of my speech patterns.
Peggy Lamb
Austin, TX

Permalink Reply by Marjorie Brook on November 4, 2009 at 9:41am

We have all taken continuing education classes where we were in awe of the instructor and walked away inspired or at the very least with a useful new addition to our toolbox. We have also taken courses where we were annoyed or angry thinking what an waste of time and money.
The range of highly qualified and competent to the ill equipped and incompetent can be found in every profession... doctors, lawyers, therapists, teachers, contractors, mechanics, etc. Yes we would like to think that having controls such as education, certifications, and advanced certifications will help eliminate or weed out the bad apples but this is not really the case. After all what do you call a medical student who graduates last in his class? That would be Doctor.
I believe having basic instructor courses and certifications is a great tool to have out there for those who need and want guidance. There is always power in acquiring knowledge. However, requirements are a slippery slope, while it may discourage those who are not truly answering a call to educate, it can also lead to corporate or government involvement and all of the problems associated with them. Similar to what we are currently experiencing in our industry right now.
Another way to address this issue and serve our community is to create a website where courses and instructors can be reviewed. This way therapists can research a course and or an instructor before investing time and money. The site would need to be monitored for the typical abuse issues and reviews should not be anonymous (it does amaze me what people will say from behind a keyboard). No one should comment unless they are willing to stand behind their words. This way a therapists can really find the courses and instructors that are the best fit for them.

Permalink Reply by Stan Dawson on November 9, 2009 at 12:06pm

I agree with Marjorie's idea about reviewing courses and teachers in a way that is accessible for potential students. That would complement any credentialing process and help folks find the best offerings in the market.

Marjorie Brook said:

We have all taken continuing education classes where we were in awe of the instructor and walked away inspired or at the very least with a useful new addition to our toolbox. We have also taken courses where we were annoyed or angry thinking what an waste of time and money.
The range of highly qualified and competent to the ill equipped and incompetent can be found in every profession... doctors, lawyers, therapists, teachers, contractors, mechanics, etc. Yes we would like to think that having controls such as education, certifications, and advanced certifications will help eliminate or weed out the bad apples but this is not really the case. After all what do you call a medical student who graduates last in his class? That would be Doctor.
I believe having basic instructor courses and certifications is a great tool to have out there for those who need and want guidance. There is always power in acquiring knowledge. However, requirements are a slippery slope, while it may discourage those who are not truly answering a call to educate, it can also lead to corporate or government involvement and all of the problems associated with them. Similar to what we are currently experiencing in our industry right now.
Another way to address this issue and serve our community is to create a website where courses and instructors can be reviewed. This way therapists can research a course and or an instructor before investing time and money. The site would need to be monitored for the typical abuse issues and reviews should not be anonymous (it does amaze me what people will say from behind a keyboard). No one should comment unless they are willing to stand behind their words. This way a therapists can really find the courses and instructors that are the best fit for them.

Permalink Reply by Mike Hinkle on November 9, 2009 at 1:29pm

Thanks Stan!

Stan Dawson said:

I agree with Marjorie's idea about reviewing courses and teachers in a way that is accessible for potential students. That would complement any credentialing process and help folks find the best offerings in the market.

Marjorie Brook said:

We have all taken continuing education classes where we were in awe of the instructor and walked away inspired or at the very least with a useful new addition to our toolbox. We have also taken courses where we were annoyed or angry thinking what an waste of time and money.
The range of highly qualified and competent to the ill equipped and incompetent can be found in every profession... doctors, lawyers, therapists, teachers, contractors, mechanics, etc. Yes we would like to think that having controls such as education, certifications, and advanced certifications will help eliminate or weed out the bad apples but this is not really the case. After all what do you call a medical student who graduates last in his class? That would be Doctor.
I believe having basic instructor courses and certifications is a great tool to have out there for those who need and want guidance. There is always power in acquiring knowledge. However, requirements are a slippery slope, while it may discourage those who are not truly answering a call to educate, it can also lead to corporate or government involvement and all of the problems associated with them. Similar to what we are currently experiencing in our industry right now.
Another way to address this issue and serve our community is to create a website where courses and instructors can be reviewed. This way therapists can research a course and or an instructor before investing time and money. The site would need to be monitored for the typical abuse issues and reviews should not be anonymous (it does amaze me what people will say from behind a keyboard). No one should comment unless they are willing to stand behind their words. This way a therapists can really find the courses and instructors that are the best fit for them.

Permalink Reply by Patricia J. Pape on November 11, 2009 at 12:01pm

The first question is what makes someone eligible for 'advanced' anything? What is 'advanced?' I know what the dictionary says. I also know there is enormous disparity in basic educational requirements for practice and teaching in each State.

Permalink Reply by Mike Hinkle on November 11, 2009 at 12:29pm

Laura Allen has a discussion line on this now on the front page, please add your thoughts. "NCB is answering questions about the advanced cert"

Patricia J. Pape said:

The first question is what makes someone eligible for 'advanced' anything? What is 'advanced?' I know what the dictionary says. I also know there is enormous disparity in basic educational requirements for practice and teaching in each State.

Permalink Reply by Kelly Grounds on November 16, 2009 at 4:32pm

The school I teach at recently hired a consultant (albeit a relative of one of the main administrators) to do some teacher training for all the massage, cos, nails and esthetics departments. I have also been a tenured professor at a university before switching into massage. At the university, we were required to fufill so many CEUs of 'teacher training'. I really think it behooves the schools- university or private trade schools, to prod us teachers into receiving pdated teacher training techniques. Speaking from experience, I hate being told 'how to teach' but come out of most workshops with at least one good idea and at the very least fresh inspiration. I may grumble the loudest about giving up my evenings or weekends, but I'll admit it is for my own good and the good of my students.
Not sure if that addresses the elephant of 'advanced certifications.'

Permalink Reply by Pete Whitridge on June 15, 2010 at 10:36am

Haven't seen a post in this area for awhile so I thought I'd stir the pot. Mike, hope you are enjoying the fruits of your great work with the festival! Now that the AFMTE has had its first conference and teachers, CE providers have a group that will advocate the wishes of the group, shouldn't we start at the beginning like Susan was suggesting? If our first level teachers (the teachers who teach in massage schools) aren't well versed in classroom management, lesson planning, technology in the classroom, how can we expect graduates to think that any more massage education is going to be more interesting/relevant/engaging? It seems imperative that we think about training clinicians to teach well, to translate what they know into something relevant in the classroom. I'm not suggesting anything other than a national dialogue about teacher qualifications at the entry level. States, schools, teachers, ce providers can all have input into this issue. No one person is able to define what is appropriate for well over 10,000 teachers, 1,500 schools. We need to dialogue, be civil, and really get ahead of the curve here. Thanks for the post. P>

Permalink Reply by Mike Hinkle on June 25, 2010 at 10:37pm

I love dialogue. That is why I have a symposium at every Festival. But I also feel it is time for action. Yes, teachers on the front line need lessons and we have started the process by bringing in Carey Smith, AMTA Teacher of the Year, to Teach Teachers How to Teach, Ruth Werner will be teaching them Research Literacy and I will be going to schools throughout the Southeast in Aug., Sept. and Oct. to convince them to attend the 2011 Festival to take these classes. How is that for a start?

Pete Whitridge said:

Haven't seen a post in this area for awhile so I thought I'd stir the pot. Mike, hope you are enjoying the fruits of your great work with the festival! Now that the AFMTE has had its first conference and teachers, CE providers have a group that will advocate the wishes of the group, shouldn't we start at the beginning like Susan was suggesting? If our first level teachers (the teachers who teach in massage schools) aren't well versed in classroom management, lesson planning, technology in the classroom, how can we expect graduates to think that any more massage education is going to be more interesting/relevant/engaging? It seems imperative that we think about training clinicians to teach well, to translate what they know into something relevant in the classroom. I'm not suggesting anything other than a national dialogue about teacher qualifications at the entry level. States, schools, teachers, ce providers can all have input into this issue. No one person is able to define what is appropriate for well over 10,000 teachers, 1,500 schools. We need to dialogue, be civil, and really get ahead of the curve here. Thanks for the post. P>

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