Tests and Studies of Reiki and other Energy Therapies - massage and bodywork professionals2024-03-29T12:10:00Zhttps://massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/tests-and-studies-of-reiki-and?groupUrl=energyworkers&commentId=2887274%3AComment%3A33724&groupId=2887274%3AGroup%3A4876&feed=yes&xn_auth=noHi Gerry...I agree that inten…tag:massageprofessionals.com,2009-11-04:2887274:Comment:401292009-11-04T16:24:08.496ZSue Heldenbrandhttps://massageprofessionals.com/profile/SueHeldenbrand
Hi Gerry...I agree that intention is very powerful and that the intention of the people conducting the studies affects the study as well. I have had students that were skeptical of energy work and their classmates could sense that whenever work was being done on them. They were blocking or putting up barriers to receiving and their intention was not to accept it. As everything in the universe if energy, energy is being exchanged on a constant basis whenever we interact with others.<br />
Sue
Hi Gerry...I agree that intention is very powerful and that the intention of the people conducting the studies affects the study as well. I have had students that were skeptical of energy work and their classmates could sense that whenever work was being done on them. They were blocking or putting up barriers to receiving and their intention was not to accept it. As everything in the universe if energy, energy is being exchanged on a constant basis whenever we interact with others.<br />
Sue I'd like to 2nd Gerry re Dani…tag:massageprofessionals.com,2009-10-27:2887274:Comment:372962009-10-27T21:20:43.032ZStephen Jeffreyhttps://massageprofessionals.com/profile/StephenJeffrey
I'd like to 2nd Gerry re Daniels comments re scientific testing.<br />
If want to look at the posts re measurement of energy tests and the attitude of the "scientists" involved take a trip over to the BOK group Body of Knowledge its over several pages, look at Chris and Berts postings starting around page 23 on the comment wall. Read backwards because as with so many groups on here the comment wall is incorrectly being used for discussion. Its well worth a look.<br />
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Full report…
I'd like to 2nd Gerry re Daniels comments re scientific testing.<br />
If want to look at the posts re measurement of energy tests and the attitude of the "scientists" involved take a trip over to the BOK group Body of Knowledge its over several pages, look at Chris and Berts postings starting around page 23 on the comment wall. Read backwards because as with so many groups on here the comment wall is incorrectly being used for discussion. Its well worth a look.<br />
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Full report <a href="http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/279/13/1005">http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/279/13/1005</a> excerts below.<br />
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Therapeutic touch is grounded on the concept that people have an energy field that is readily detectable (and modifiable) by TT practitioners. However, this study found that 21 experienced practitioners, when blinded, were unable to tell which of their hands was in the experimenter's energy field. The mean correct score for the 28 sets of 10 tests was 4.4, which is close to what would be expected for random guessing.<br />
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CONCLUSIONS<br />
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To our knowledge, no other objective, quantitative study involving more than a few TT practitioners has been published, and no well-designed study demonstrates any health benefit from TT. These facts, together with our experimental findings, suggest that TT claims are groundless and that further use of TT by health professionals is unjustified. David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D.…tag:massageprofessionals.com,2009-10-27:2887274:Comment:371562009-10-27T17:39:32.237ZMarilyn St.Johnhttps://massageprofessionals.com/profile/MarilynStJohn
David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D. has done some interesting research with reference to attractor patterns. Although his work specifically pertains to kinesiolgy (and therefore intimately related to what we do) you all might find it worth a look. I recommend reading <u>Power vs. Force</u>, The Hidden Determinants of Human Behavior (Hay House, 2002).<br />
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In the field of human energy fields is Dr. Valerie Hunt, who electronically discovered & differentiated vibration patterns ("human field chaos")…
David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D. has done some interesting research with reference to attractor patterns. Although his work specifically pertains to kinesiolgy (and therefore intimately related to what we do) you all might find it worth a look. I recommend reading <u>Power vs. Force</u>, The Hidden Determinants of Human Behavior (Hay House, 2002).<br />
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In the field of human energy fields is Dr. Valerie Hunt, who electronically discovered & differentiated vibration patterns ("human field chaos") during pain, disease & illness, and in emotional & spiritual states; she was able to recognize & document the individualized field signatures and subtle energetic happenings between people and within groups. Her book <u>Infinite Mind</u> (Malibu Publishing, 1996) is based on 25 years of electronic field testing in conjunction with the UCLA Energy Fields Laboratory & Bioenergy Fields Foundation.<br />
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Hope these references help in the quest...interesting reading, in any case! Well Said Daniel. This is exa…tag:massageprofessionals.com,2009-10-27:2887274:Comment:370592009-10-27T12:31:15.722ZGerry Bunnellhttps://massageprofessionals.com/profile/GerryBunnell
Well Said Daniel. This is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you for putting it into words that I was unable to do.<br />
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Peace<br />
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<cite>Daniel Myers said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/tests-and-studies-of-reiki-and?groupUrl=energyworkers&id=2887274%3ATopic%3A33627&groupId=2887274%3AGroup%3A4876&page=2#2887274Comment36832"><div>Bogged down in analysis? That's what holistic healing is all about, friend. If one cannot properly analyze that what…</div>
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Well Said Daniel. This is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you for putting it into words that I was unable to do.<br />
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Peace<br />
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<cite>Daniel Myers said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/tests-and-studies-of-reiki-and?groupUrl=energyworkers&id=2887274%3ATopic%3A33627&groupId=2887274%3AGroup%3A4876&page=2#2887274Comment36832"><div>Bogged down in analysis? That's what holistic healing is all about, friend. If one cannot properly analyze that what we are doing is healing, then how can we focus on positive aspects of energetic work? You mentioned not wanting to cite specific examples of a test without scrutinizing the results. Then you go on asking if there is a truly fair way of testing? I don't think you can have both. There are people who will question the results of any test (no matter how fair).<br/><br/>Yes, there are definite ways to test energetic work. Besides the usual: heart rate, blood pressure, ORAC exchange rate, breathing patterns, hormone levels, nerve ending tests, etc. there are also long term tests: Climate influences, stress tests, brain wave activity, longevity, etc. These all can be tested and documented. But in my honest opinion, test results only show numbers. And people aren't just made of numbers-- we are a set of infinite changing parameters, which cannot all be marked (or checked off) in a constantly changing world.<br/><br/>I do believe in the power of intent (or the power of attraction) just like the power of gravity. So to answer your question(s):<br/>No, I do not think there will ever be conclusive or irrefutable test for energywork. However, I do believe that our energywork has intangible results that supercede even the greatest of intents.<br/><br/><cite>Gerry Bunnell said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/tests-and-studies-of-reiki-and?groupUrl=energyworkers&#2887274Comment34005"><div>Hi Dan,<br/><br/>I purposely avoided citing any specific studies because I did not want this topic to get bogged down in analysing the specific merits of any particular study. My hopes are that we focus on the concept that I have placed on the table of subtle energies being responsive to intent. Given that concept, is it possible to truely design a fair and objective testing of energy therapies to support or refute their affectiveness?<br/><br/><cite>Daniel Myers said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/tests-and-studies-of-reiki-and?groupUrl=energyworkers&#2887274Comment33638"><div>I find that when you question "studies" you <b>should</b> cite specific examples so we can reference what you are talking about. Randomly asking questions about a random study has no meaning to me.<br/><br/>I could post something like you did, but with opposite questions and opposite proof of studies. However, without showing the actual studies, it would seem like I know nothing about energy tests. An intelligent perspective would show his readers exactly what he means, instead of assuming they do.<br/><br/>I hope I am not coming off as offensive, just constructive to the conversation. Have an energetic Sunday!</div>
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</blockquote> Bogged down in analysis? That…tag:massageprofessionals.com,2009-10-26:2887274:Comment:368322009-10-26T19:36:16.882ZDaniel Myershttps://massageprofessionals.com/profile/DanielMyers
Bogged down in analysis? That's what holistic healing is all about, friend. If one cannot properly analyze that what we are doing is healing, then how can we focus on positive aspects of energetic work? You mentioned not wanting to cite specific examples of a test without scrutinizing the results. Then you go on asking if there is a truly fair way of testing? I don't think you can have both. There are people who will question the results of any test (no matter how fair).<br />
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Yes, there are…
Bogged down in analysis? That's what holistic healing is all about, friend. If one cannot properly analyze that what we are doing is healing, then how can we focus on positive aspects of energetic work? You mentioned not wanting to cite specific examples of a test without scrutinizing the results. Then you go on asking if there is a truly fair way of testing? I don't think you can have both. There are people who will question the results of any test (no matter how fair).<br />
<br />
Yes, there are definite ways to test energetic work. Besides the usual: heart rate, blood pressure, ORAC exchange rate, breathing patterns, hormone levels, nerve ending tests, etc. there are also long term tests: Climate influences, stress tests, brain wave activity, longevity, etc. These all can be tested and documented. But in my honest opinion, test results only show numbers. And people aren't just made of numbers-- we are a set of infinite changing parameters, which cannot all be marked (or checked off) in a constantly changing world.<br />
<br />
I do believe in the power of intent (or the power of attraction) just like the power of gravity. So to answer your question(s):<br />
No, I do not think there will ever be conclusive or irrefutable test for energywork. However, I do believe that our energywork has intangible results that supercede even the greatest of intents.<br />
<br />
<cite>Gerry Bunnell said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/tests-and-studies-of-reiki-and?groupUrl=energyworkers&#2887274Comment34005"><div>Hi Dan,<br/> <br/>
I purposely avoided citing any specific studies because I did not want this topic to get bogged down in analysing the specific merits of any particular study. My hopes are that we focus on the concept that I have placed on the table of subtle energies being responsive to intent. Given that concept, is it possible to truely design a fair and objective testing of energy therapies to support or refute their affectiveness?<br/>
<br/>
<cite>Daniel Myers said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/tests-and-studies-of-reiki-and?groupUrl=energyworkers&#2887274Comment33638"><div>I find that when you question "studies" you <b>should</b> cite specific examples so we can reference what you are talking about. Randomly asking questions about a random study has no meaning to me.<br/><br/>I could post something like you did, but with opposite questions and opposite proof of studies. However, without showing the actual studies, it would seem like I know nothing about energy tests. An intelligent perspective would show his readers exactly what he means, instead of assuming they do.<br/><br/>I hope I am not coming off as offensive, just constructive to the conversation. Have an energetic Sunday!</div>
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</blockquote> What might be interesting is…tag:massageprofessionals.com,2009-10-26:2887274:Comment:366212009-10-26T02:56:26.427ZStuart R Dolehttps://massageprofessionals.com/profile/StuartRDole
What might be interesting is if there were a database of existing studies, with notes and critiques? Rather than post studies here (discussion threads are awkward for that), maybe a list of pointers & URLs of known studies, and some way we could look at them and offer commentary? I'm not sure how that would work.<br />
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I am close to one clinical study that's not published yet that had "really good" results. The study was very difficult to design and fund, but it <u>was</u> finally carried out.…
What might be interesting is if there were a database of existing studies, with notes and critiques? Rather than post studies here (discussion threads are awkward for that), maybe a list of pointers & URLs of known studies, and some way we could look at them and offer commentary? I'm not sure how that would work.<br />
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I am close to one clinical study that's not published yet that had "really good" results. The study was very difficult to design and fund, but it <u>was</u> finally carried out. Then it turns out that writing, reviewing, (then rewriting and re-reviewing) and publication are even harder! If it ever does hit a journal or the web I'll post a link. Earlier, I thought it would b…tag:massageprofessionals.com,2009-10-23:2887274:Comment:357982009-10-23T15:41:44.414ZChristopher A. Moyerhttps://massageprofessionals.com/profile/ChristopherAMoyer
Earlier, I thought it would be interesting to post a specific study, to see what critiques people have. However, after developments in another related thread, I'm not so sure - it seemed in that case as if people just ignored salient points if ignoring them benefited their position. It took a lot of time and energy to make very little headway.<br />
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I'll do my best to communicate as clearly as possible if it happens...<br />
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-CM<br />
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<cite>Gerry Bunnell said:…</cite>
Earlier, I thought it would be interesting to post a specific study, to see what critiques people have. However, after developments in another related thread, I'm not so sure - it seemed in that case as if people just ignored salient points if ignoring them benefited their position. It took a lot of time and energy to make very little headway.<br />
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I'll do my best to communicate as clearly as possible if it happens...<br />
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-CM<br />
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<cite>Gerry Bunnell said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/tests-and-studies-of-reiki-and?groupUrl=energyworkers&x=1&id=2887274%3ATopic%3A33627&groupId=2887274%3AGroup%3A4876&page=1#2887274Comment34009"><div>Chris, you threw me a curve when you said "Gerry kicked the thread off, so I think we should give <u><i>her</i></u> first shot at this". I finally realized you may be referring to me. I'm kinda ugly for a woman, don't you think?<br/> <br/>
Please see my response to Dan. I'll be happy to dig up some actual studies if you feel it will add value to the discussion.<br/>
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Peace<br/>
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<cite>Christopher A. Moyer said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/tests-and-studies-of-reiki-and?groupUrl=energyworkers&#2887274Comment33692"><div>Hi Daniel -<br/><br/>This is a good point! Perhaps we should turn up a specific study. Gerry kicked the thread off, so I think we should give her first shot at this.<br/><br/>What do you think Gerry?<br/><br/>If you'd rather not, or if you think you might not be able to locate a good one, let me know - I'd be happy to try.<br/><br/>-CM<br/><br/><cite>Daniel Myers said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/tests-and-studies-of-reiki-and?groupUrl=energyworkers&#2887274Comment33638"><div>I find that when you question "studies" you <b>should</b> cite specific examples so we can reference what you are talking about. Randomly asking questions about a random study has no meaning to me.<br/><br/>I could post something like you did, but with opposite questions and opposite proof of studies. However, without showing the actual studies, it would seem like I know nothing about energy tests. An intelligent perspective would show his readers exactly what he means, instead of assuming they do.<br/><br/>I hope I am not coming off as offensive, just constructive to the conversation. Have an energetic Sunday!</div>
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</blockquote> Ha - I just saw this. Uh, yea…tag:massageprofessionals.com,2009-10-23:2887274:Comment:357912009-10-23T15:35:24.657ZChristopher A. Moyerhttps://massageprofessionals.com/profile/ChristopherAMoyer
Ha - I just saw this. Uh, yeah, dumb mistake on my part. :)<br />
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<cite>Gerry Bunnell said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/tests-and-studies-of-reiki-and?groupUrl=energyworkers&#2887274Comment34009"><div>Chris, you threw me a curve when you said "Gerry kicked the thread off, so I think we should give <u><i>her</i></u> first shot at this". I finally realized you may be referring to me. I'm kinda ugly for a woman, don't you think?<br></br> <br></br> Please see my…</div>
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Ha - I just saw this. Uh, yeah, dumb mistake on my part. :)<br />
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<cite>Gerry Bunnell said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/tests-and-studies-of-reiki-and?groupUrl=energyworkers&#2887274Comment34009"><div>Chris, you threw me a curve when you said "Gerry kicked the thread off, so I think we should give <u><i>her</i></u> first shot at this". I finally realized you may be referring to me. I'm kinda ugly for a woman, don't you think?<br/> <br/>
Please see my response to Dan. I'll be happy to dig up some actual studies if you feel it will add value to the discussion.<br/>
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Peace<br/>
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<cite>Christopher A. Moyer said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/tests-and-studies-of-reiki-and?groupUrl=energyworkers&#2887274Comment33692"><div>Hi Daniel -<br/><br/>This is a good point! Perhaps we should turn up a specific study. Gerry kicked the thread off, so I think we should give her first shot at this.<br/><br/>What do you think Gerry?<br/><br/>If you'd rather not, or if you think you might not be able to locate a good one, let me know - I'd be happy to try.<br/><br/>-CM<br/><br/><cite>Daniel Myers said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/tests-and-studies-of-reiki-and?groupUrl=energyworkers&#2887274Comment33638"><div>I find that when you question "studies" you <b>should</b> cite specific examples so we can reference what you are talking about. Randomly asking questions about a random study has no meaning to me.<br/><br/>I could post something like you did, but with opposite questions and opposite proof of studies. However, without showing the actual studies, it would seem like I know nothing about energy tests. An intelligent perspective would show his readers exactly what he means, instead of assuming they do.<br/><br/>I hope I am not coming off as offensive, just constructive to the conversation. Have an energetic Sunday!</div>
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</blockquote> I agree Jade, I feel ongoing…tag:massageprofessionals.com,2009-10-19:2887274:Comment:340112009-10-19T17:39:58.586ZGerry Bunnellhttps://massageprofessionals.com/profile/GerryBunnell
I agree Jade, I feel ongoing case studies is the most practical method of assessing the affectiveness of energy therapies. Bravo for you holding your own on that study. Do you know if the testers marked it conclusive evidence or inconclusive?<br />
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Peace<br />
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<cite>Jade Edwards said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/tests-and-studies-of-reiki-and?groupUrl=energyworkers&#2887274Comment33758"><div>Hello, Gerry<br></br>Great topic!<br></br><br></br>I believe that the…</div>
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I agree Jade, I feel ongoing case studies is the most practical method of assessing the affectiveness of energy therapies. Bravo for you holding your own on that study. Do you know if the testers marked it conclusive evidence or inconclusive?<br />
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Peace<br />
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<cite>Jade Edwards said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/tests-and-studies-of-reiki-and?groupUrl=energyworkers&#2887274Comment33758"><div>Hello, Gerry<br/>Great topic!<br/><br/>I believe that the neutrality of the proctor is critical for the test to be performed accurately. There also needs to be several tests performed, by a multitude of 'neutral' proctors,test subjects from several different locations and at different times of the year. Also...what 'kinds' of test subjects are being utilized...documented medically diagnosed patients or just John or Jane Doe off the street?<br/><br/>One other detail to ponder...is on several occasions, I have been 'tested' by skeptics who purposely try to trick me. One example is a 'friend' host of mine had his test subject say that their right mid thigh had been hurting for over ten (10) years and no doctor or 'cure' could help. Upon grounding and touching the subject...I had a REALLY difficult time seeing anything wrong with their leg! After about 30 minutes I started to notice the host individual chuckling and talking to observers around him that I was a FAKE! This upset me, but I decided to 'look' around in an area that caught my attention upon first touch. I moved toward the subjects chest and I immediately started having a hard time breathing! I looked further and felt that this person had something severely wrong with his lungs. At that point, I asked him what was wrong with his lungs? He was startled and looked over at the host who said, "There's nothing wrong with His lungs!" The subject then nodded his head and turned to look at me. He keep shaking his head while looking around at everyone. He said it was a hereditary condition which he was born with. Without his inhaler, he said he would suffocate. He stated that he took a dose of his medication just prior to volunteering and that he felt bad for accepting $20 from the host to make me look like an idiot...<br/><br/>Anyway, there I go rambling on again! :)</div>
</blockquote> TY Marilyn. I am definately g…tag:massageprofessionals.com,2009-10-19:2887274:Comment:340102009-10-19T17:36:33.156ZGerry Bunnellhttps://massageprofessionals.com/profile/GerryBunnell
TY Marilyn. I am definately going to dig into that.<br />
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<cite>Marilyn St.John said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/tests-and-studies-of-reiki-and?groupUrl=energyworkers&#2887274Comment33724"><div>Hello again, Gerry ~ Have you ever checked out the studies that Lynne McTaggart is doing with the intention experiment? If not, I think it would interest you. Best, ~m<br/>(e-news@livingthefield.com)</div>
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TY Marilyn. I am definately going to dig into that.<br />
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<cite>Marilyn St.John said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/tests-and-studies-of-reiki-and?groupUrl=energyworkers&#2887274Comment33724"><div>Hello again, Gerry ~ Have you ever checked out the studies that Lynne McTaggart is doing with the intention experiment? If not, I think it would interest you. Best, ~m<br/>(e-news@livingthefield.com)</div>
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