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Student Rights
Hi, I am currently a student in Oklahoma and am wondering about my rights as a student to refuse to give or receive massages from another student in class that has consistently demonstrated poor hygiene. Not only have I smelled b.o. on him the last two times I have massaged him, but he has also had a toe fungus for more than three weeks that he has consciously done nothing about. He probably had it longer which means other students were massaging his feet oblivious to the fact that he had the fungus. I told my massage teacher that i didn't feel comfortable giving or recieving massages from him until he cleaned up his act, but she said that everyone has to work on everyone so now she's making me set up an appointment with the person in charge of all of the health programs.
To make matters worse the instructor has known about this student having fungus the whole time AND that it is spreadable if it gets under his fingernails and he is STILL working on other students without gloves and they are still working on him without gloves. The instructor has tried to make a deal with me by asking me things like, "What if I tell him to scrub under his fingernails before he gives you a massage?" and "What if you wore gloves while massaging him and he wore gloves while massaging you?" Does that not sound ridiculous to anyone else?? I mean we're in a HEALTH profession!! Shouldn't he be held to high standards of hygiene for himself and that of the welfare of his clients?? How can anyone take massage therapy seriously if people like this are sent out into the workforce??
So, any help on students rights to back up my stance on refusing to receive or give a massage to this idiot until he can show that he has the basic idea of hygiene would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, M.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mike Hinkle on
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Hi Melony,
Not sure, I would call it student rights. But we all have stands we can make and about now... I'd be taking one.
You have already fulfilled your need, as set by the school, to massage him. You said you have already done so twice. So their argument, that you must massage everyone, has been addressed.
Just don't massage him. Tell him, point blank, why. They can't fail you for it. I would also tell the school, I'd be filing a letter of complaint with your state board if they don't take measures to make him comply, by tomorrow, with the basic hygiene laid out in the books you study. Cite exact pages and paragraphs that he and the school are not in compliance with.
This is another reason for standards. For the school to waste this much time, on a person not taking the profession seriously, tells a lot about how the school feels about money versus professionalism, as well.
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Permalink Reply by Michelle Batac on
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Well that's just nasty...student or professional, you don't need to touch him anymore! It has nothing to do with rights, it is more a human curtesy and basic common sense. Apparently he has neither. I would agree with the last post in response to you as well. Just say no, they can't fail you for it, you did abide by the rules, if not moreover!
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Thats exactly how I feel. They keep saying that i should be okay with him wearing gloves and massaging me but i mean come on! Shouldnt the student be told to clean up his act!? On top of that the only reason i know that the fungus can spread if it gets under his fingernails is because i told the instrctor i was uncomfortable with him and i didnt want him touching me. He still massages people without gloves and people still massage him without gloves.
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Permalink Reply by Rajam K Roose on
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First of all, just because the fellow student has toenail fungus does NOT mean he has poor hygiene. Anyone can get a fungus. My mother, who is meticulous about her hygiene has gotten a toenail fungus from a pedicure at a "spa" and she had a difficult time getting rid of it. I just want to make that point because you are assuming that the student doesn't have good hygiene, which may OR may NOT be true. You mentioned a "toe fungus" if the fungus is under the toenails, then you shouldn't have to worry about the hands unless the fungus is under the hand nails.
So, if your instructor isn't taking you seriously, you should think about going to the higher up, the instructor's boss on that one. Toenail fungus is contagious if you are sharing a shower or bath.The fungus is just contagious if the students work on the nails with the fungus, not on the rest of the body. So, really massaging the student shouldn't be an issue, but massaging the toe/fingers with the fungus IS an issue.
If the fungus is under the hand nails and the instructor isn't listening to your concerns, then go to his boss. If the boss doesn't care, you may either have to "suck it up" or find another school.
Also, body odor can come from a variety of ailments, not just from personal hygiene. If the student's body odor bothers you and you feel that it's malodorous, you might want to think about pulling the student aside and just letting them know that body odor can be a symptom of some health conditions and maybe they want to get a checkup. The student may be meticulous in bathing, for all you know, but be exhibiting other health issues they may not be aware of.
And, not to pick on you personally, but I just want to add that as a massage therapist, you're going to have to get used to body odor.
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I can guarantee you that this student did NOT get his fungus from going to a spa, but rather from lack of hygiene. He is not even concerned with getting rid of his fungus which a normal, rational person would do. I understand that it is contagious if it gets under his nails, but as I said, if the student has scratched his feet, then there could be cross contamination and he has been working on people's feet and hands doing reflexology without wearing gloves. The students in class have avoided his feet, but they still work on his hands as the instructor hasn't informed them how the fungus can spread. So, if he called himself a professional massage therapist, would you allow him to work on you? Does that sound very professional?
Consider the fact that your mother very well could've have gotten a fungus from a student just like this who wasn't concerned about the hygiene of themselves or others from the very beginning, even before they finished their classes.As a result, they go out into the workforce without the basic skills to ensure the safety and well being of their clients.
Obviously, the fact that your mom got it, shows that indeed fungus can spread, so why would I even be comfortable with someone infected working on me?
Lastly, I understand that people have b.o., I've worked on clients with stinky feet, it happens and that's not enough for me to think that they're not practicing safe hygiene. It is the combination of his lackadaisical attitude toward even beginning to seek out a cure for his fungus compounded by his body odor that tells me, obviously, he's not clean.
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Just because someone has a toenail fungus and is still working would not necessarily mean they aren't a professional. You are still in massage school and have plenty to learn. Fungus's need a water environment to spread. I'm only responding to your thread because I understand as a student what it's like to have concerns about hygiene, but you have to look at the facts and not get into fear based theories.
Melody, I agree that although your classmate likely didn't catch it from a spa, he did pick it up somewhere but not necessarily from lack of hygiene. I've gone without bathing for weeks at a time in a shower and never picked up any diseases or fungus. If the student has "scratched his foot" and then worked on someone in class, that alone is unlikely to spread the fungus. The likely cause of contamination will be if he shares a bath, shower or foot bath with another student.
My mom picked up a fungus because she soaked her feet in a foot bath that wasn't thoroughly disinfected. She didn't catch it from some student, the place she went to has been open for at least ten years, if not longer.
I'm not picking on you, I'm just curious-- how do you know he doesn't care about his hygiene? How do you know that he has a lackadaisical attitude about it all? I'm only playing devils advocate here, so please don't take it personal. Toenail fungus is extremely difficult to get rid of, how do you know he hasn't even tried? Is that something he told you personally?
Again, not to be picky, but body (not foot) odor can be a sign of a medical condition, how can you assume he's just not clean? Has he mentioned to you that he's scared of water (a true story-- a friend of mine had body odor and when I brought it up to him privately that his health may be at risk, he shared with me his personal fear of water!)
Fungus needs dampness and water to spread-- the student scratching his feet before massaging will unlikely spread the fungus, does that happen in class that the student actually scratches his foot before massaging the other student? In order for you to catch the fungus, you will need to share a water environment with that student. The fact they are massaging is NOT cause for concern. It's NOT a concern unless he is sharing some kind of water bath with his feet and the other students.
I have massaged the body of many a client in my eleven years working as a full time massage therapist and have had about ten clients who told me they had a toenail fungus before the session. I worked on them and NEVER got the fungus. I worked on their entire body and feet and avoided the specific nails that had the fungus. Do you know why, because it needs a water based environment to spread. Sure, I avoid working the specific nails where the fungus resides, but do work the rest of the foot!
So, here's some information from the Mayo Clinic about toe fungus-- http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/nail-fungus/DS00084
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The registered nurse at the school said it could spread if it got under his nails. She said nothing about sharing a moist environment so I'm going to go with the registered nurse on this this one. Whether your mom got the fungus from a student or not isn't the point. The point is somewhere there was a breakdown in cleanliness, agreed? A breakdown in basic functions to care about the client's well being.
You can seriously tell me that not taking care of a fungus on your person does not constitute bad hygiene? The instructor has asked him if he got he his fungus taken care of and his answer was, "No." and that was the end of that. The only other time the instructor said anything to him was when I flat out told her I didn't want him working on me. So, obviously, he still has it and hasn't done anything to get rid of it because why would his attitude change between then and now?
You don't really know the type of person I'm dealing with. He has actually said in class with the more difficult tests we've had to take, "I don't want to be that smart, I just want to be a little smart." And has referred to the "fight or flight response" as "fight or flight syndrome" and wanted to know a treatment for it because it got him into a lot of fights when he was a kid. He wasn't kidding, he absolutely serious. Does this sound like someone you want as your massage therapist? And then he shared a story about giving a massage to someone wherein he was "shaking them" and they told him it hurt and his reply to her was "shut up, it's gonna feel good later."
My concerns aren't fear based. As I mentioned before, a registered nurse said it could spread if it got under his fingernails, hence, no moist environment needed. When you ask "What massage therapist do you know who scratches his feet before a massage." Well what about that morning? Beyond that we were doing reflexology on the hands and feet, maybe he could've done it then. This guy really isn't the brightest in the world. When I said I needed deep tissue done, he didn't warm up the muscles he just went strait in and pressed down as hard as he could on my entire back. And don't you find it a little absurd that the instructor has to tell a 56 year old man to scrub his hands before he massages someone? I think you're taking this personally as if I was saying something against people like your mom and I'm really not. Btw other people in the class have complained about this guy, it's not just me. He doesn't have a special case like he's afraid of water or something, he just isn't interested. I know enough to think about situations before I make a decision, this isn't just a snap judgment as you seem to think it is.
Bottom line, it's a courtesy and comfortably issue. And massaging the feet when someone has a fungus, not being mean, but yuck. You and I differ completely on that one.
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As it will be all come down to your decision when you are the seasoned pro out there Melody... follow your training. It says no to fungus... it means no. Body odors... general public... some therapists still refuse to work on them.. it will be your choice. I hear often of therapists refusing to massage women because their perfume is just too much... how is it any different... it isn't.
And for a massage therapy student, supposed to be learning this profession... there is no excuse.... none. Our teachers checked our nails to be sure we would not hurt clients. Stand your ground!
melony martin said:
The registered nurse at the school said it could spread if it got under his nails. She said nothing about sharing a moist environment so I'm going to go with the registered nurse on this this one. Whether your mom got the fungus from a student or not isn't the point. The point is somewhere there was a breakdown in cleanliness, agreed? A breakdown in basic functions to care about the client's well being.
You can seriously tell me that not taking care of a fungus on your person does not constitute bad hygiene? The instructor has asked him if he got he his fungus taken care of and his answer was, "No." and that was the end of that. The only other time the instructor said anything to him was when I flat out told her I didn't want him working on me. So, obviously, he still has it and hasn't done anything to get rid of it because why would his attitude change between then and now?
You don't really know the type of person I'm dealing with. He has actually said in class with the more difficult tests we've had to take, "I don't want to be that smart, I just want to be a little smart." And has referred to the "fight or flight response" as "fight or flight syndrome" and wanted to know a treatment for it because it got him into a lot of fights when he was a kid. He wasn't kidding, he absolutely serious. Does this sound like someone you want as your massage therapist? And then he shared a story about giving a massage to someone wherein he was "shaking them" and they told him it hurt and his reply to her was "shut up, it's gonna feel good later."
My concerns aren't fear based. As I mentioned before, a registered nurse said it could spread if it got under his fingernails, hence, no moist environment needed. When you ask "What massage therapist do you know who scratches his feet before a massage." Well what about that morning? Beyond that we were doing reflexology on the hands and feet, maybe he could've done it then. This guy really isn't the brightest in the world. When I said I needed deep tissue done, he didn't warm up the muscles he just went strait in and pressed down as hard as he could on my entire back. And don't you find it a little absurd that the instructor has to tell a 56 year old man to scrub his hands before he massages someone? I think you're taking this personally as if I was saying something against people like your mom and I'm really not. Btw other people in the class have complained about this guy, it's not just me. He doesn't have a special case like he's afraid of water or something, he just isn't interested. I know enough to think about situations before I make a decision, this isn't just a snap judgment as you seem to think it is.
Bottom line, it's a courtesy and comfortably issue. And massaging the feet when someone has a fungus, not being mean, but yuck. You and I differ completely on that one.
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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Adams on
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My advice would be to treat the student as you would a client.
Further, I would explain that unless he has a doctor's excuse saying that his foot condition is not contagious then you can not work on that area of the body.
I did come across a similar situation in my class. The student had what appeared to be a foot fungus. (I did not diagnose.) And I simply told her, I was uncomfortable working on that area because it appeared suspicious to me. I would be glad to work on it later, if she would be so kind as to have it checked out. She never did, and I never worked on her feet again. . .
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Permalink Reply by Chance Ryan on
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Wait wait wait! I've spent my entire career in medicine and one thing that is true is any and all fungus is transferable from one site to another, the OP stated more than just the fungus as to making their assertion regarding poor hygiene, they sited body odor and the appearance of being dirty.
I had this exact experience recently and it's well within the rights of anyone to refuse to work on anyone student or professional w/ out having to give an explanation. It is however the responsibility of the school to do something about it.
Rajam K Roose said:First of all, just because the fellow student has toenail fungus does NOT mean he has poor hygiene. Anyone can get a fungus. My mother, who is meticulous about her hygiene has gotten a toenail fungus from a pedicure at a "spa" and she had a difficult time getting rid of it. I just want to make that point because you are assuming that the student doesn't have good hygiene, which may OR may NOT be true. You mentioned a "toe fungus" if the fungus is under the toenails, then you shouldn't have to worry about the hands unless the fungus is under the hand nails.
So, if your instructor isn't taking you seriously, you should think about going to the higher up, the instructor's boss on that one. Toenail fungus is contagious if you are sharing a shower or bath.The fungus is just contagious if the students work on the nails with the fungus, not on the rest of the body. So, really massaging the student shouldn't be an issue, but massaging the toe/fingers with the fungus IS an issue.
If the fungus is under the hand nails and the instructor isn't listening to your concerns, then go to his boss. If the boss doesn't care, you may either have to "suck it up" or find another school.
Also, body odor can come from a variety of ailments, not just from personal hygiene. If the student's body odor bothers you and you feel that it's malodorous, you might want to think about pulling the student aside and just letting them know that body odor can be a symptom of some health conditions and maybe they want to get a checkup. The student may be meticulous in bathing, for all you know, but be exhibiting other health issues they may not be aware of.
And, not to pick on you personally, but I just want to add that as a massage therapist, you're going to have to get used to body odor.
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You guys, thank you so much for all your input. I just re-read in our textbooks that we as professionals can request a dr.s note before we work on a client if we are uncomfortable for viable reasons. Students continue to work on him without gloves and vice versa and really i think they just want it swept under the rug. Too bad i cant afford to go to a better school.
:-C U guys are awesome though!! Its nice to know that i'm not the only one who doesnt want to just get by in this profession. Now i know that there are others out there who really take pride in massage therapy and understand its potential in our society.
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Permalink Reply by Jordan Meyer on
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This is ridiculous! You should definitely do something about it!
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