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The Massage Therapy Alliance of America - A New Alliance For Therapists!
We are so excited for Massage Therapists!!! But, instead of re-explaining it here, go to the source at http://www.mtaamassage.org
Some of the debate that will take place on this topic will be heated. If opposing sides discussing issues is not your cup of tea, just visit the website. FYI!
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mike Hinkle on
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Incorporation of any entity has heated debate and discussions. It is part of the process. And it will be so this time as well. I believe another group can address issues in different as welll as similar ways. That will be up to those that serve, if they find the same results as others. I think they will be different. But then again more people pushing the wheel, usally makes it go easier. Either way, we are going to find out!
Relax & Rejuvenate said:Wow.....not even formed and the MTAA discussion already resembles the colorful spats of the NCBTMB / AMTA / Fill in the blank organization.
REason #4543 not to duplicate efforts -- it is clear you are heading down the same path!
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Permalink Reply by Erica Olson on
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Mike Hinkle said:
But there are so many coming to Festival this year, I don't know going West into new area would create a larger amount of therapists.
I don't understand what you mean by this. Would you explain?
I want as many as possible to be able to vote.
Then why require people to be there in person to do so? Economic and time commitment factors alone can easily be prohibitive.
E.
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But there are so many coming to Festival this year, I don't know going West into new area would create a larger amount of therapists.
This means, you asked to set this back until 2012. We will be in Las Vegas in 2012. I have been on the East Coast for 6 years and have built a gathering of therapists. There will be more there than going to Vegas and trying to get a whole new group organized.
I understand economics and committment factors. That is why I am telling everyone now about it. We are going to have the election July 16, 2011 in Cullowhee, NC.
Online or through the mail could have an inaccurate result. In person is the way this election will take place.
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Permalink Reply by Choice Kinchen on
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"Many of us are going to form the Alliance and have a separate voice to address issues Associations are not. It will not hurt having more people working on similar goals. We are all so different, there should be and now will be more choices."
Mike, so by this logic, if therapists have issues that the Associations and the Alliance won't/can't address, do we then form yet another group...maybe something out west? I just can't get my head around joining an organization that can't tell me what issues it's going to address (cause it doesn't know) or any other benefits of being a member (cause it's also unknown) and yet wants me to participate...but only if I show up in person to vote. I am in the west and economics (and other factors) will keep me away. The fact that I can't vote has now become an issue that can't be addressed by the Alliance. From the looks of it, you are offering nothing I need. We all know that nothing is free. Eventually, payment will be asked for. And there is no way you can spin this to make me interested the way it looks now. Oh, and I am a veteran therapist so you better be listening to people like me. If you don't, then you're not really making this be about massage therapist and their issues.
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Choice, I listen to all therapists veteran or not. I just wanted veterans working on the by-laws. And to answer your first question, why not? Why should you stay in any organization that isn't addressing your concerns? If you are happy with everything, there is no need to join and try to improve.
All groups set up a framework. It is set up at http:www.mtaamassage.org For hundreds this has been enough to become involved. If not for you then I guess you will not join.
I just had a Canadian therapist tell me I should just set back and accept Canada's effort to combine our countries massage programs. Sorry, I do not believe incoming students need 2,200-3,000 hours to do the same thing that 500 hours got me. Especially since they are not telling what those additional 1,700 are going to cost in school fee increases. It will now be three-four years and $20,00- $50,000 for school?
Pass. Yeah, I do think you should probably start something like this, out there Choice. This is the future if we don't stand up now. I support increased standards and I fought for the MTBOK. That does not mean that I support the direction I see massage headed concerning the amount of massage school training needed. If those that wish this regimen applied, signed up for that program and complete it, they should then be given a title to acknowlege that. All other therapists should not be subjected to this level of demand.
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Permalink Reply by Alexei Levine on
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Mike,
I agree with you about the school hours requirement issue. Why is a tiered system unacceptable. Why eliminate 90% of all MTs just so a few can become less well educated physical therapist analogues. Why try to convert Massage Therapy into something that approximates a profession which is already established. Physical Therapy is already there for us. Why don't people who want to practice at the highest possible levels simply become Physical Therapists instead of trying to change the entire profession of Massage Therapy? It's kind of amusing, because to me it reveals their desperation for respect or external validation by the medical profession, while simultaneously their fear of tackling a real PT education is exposed.
Alexei
Mike Hinkle said:Choice, I listen to all therapists veteran or not. I just wanted veterans working on the by-laws. And to answer your first question, why not? Why should you stay in any organization that isn't addressing your concerns? If you are happy with everything, there is no need to join and try to improve.
All groups set up a framework. It is set up at http:www.mtaamassage.org For hundreds this has been enough to become involved. If not for you then I guess you will not join.
I just had a Canadian therapist tell me I should just set back and accept Canada's effort to combine our countries massage programs. Sorry, I do not believe incoming students need 2,200-3,000 hours to do the same thing that 500 hours got me. Especially since they are not telling what those additional 1,700 are going to cost in school fee increases. It will now be three-four years and $20,00- $50,000 for school?
Pass. Yeah, I do think you should probably start something like this, out there Choice. This is the future if we don't stand up now. I support increased standards and I fought for the MTBOK. That does not mean that I support the direction I see massage headed concerning the amount of massage school training needed. If those that wish this regimen applied, signed up for that program and complete it, they should then be given a title to acknowlege that. All other therapists should not be subjected to this level of demand.
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I agree Alexei. It seems money driven. Over on FB I am trying to explain why the Canadian state sponsored system is not the proto-type we wish to follow and that it is not compatible with our free enterprise system. All he (from Canada) is saying is be quiet and accept those that are already sponsoring your voice to make this decision.
I do not want the Canadian system of Massage Therapy. If I just mention forming an Alliance and this quick of a negative response comes, how many other issues are coming at us? Therapists need a voice separate of existing voices if this is the future planned for therapists.
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Permalink Reply by Laura Allen on
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Just as an interjection into this lively discussion, re the being present to vote: that is definitely not without precedence in startup organizations for the seating of a first board. The same thing happened when the Alliance for Massage Therapy Education was formed; those of us who were present were the ones who got to vote. It also happened at the Federation of State Massage Therapy Boards; those who were present got to vote. AMTA has currently over 50,000 members who are eligible to vote, and only 1800 of them voted in the last election which is conducted by mail and electronic voting. As a matter of fact, at the state chapter level, our officers are voted on by the membership who is present at the annual meeting, which is usually about 100-150 of us out of our 1800+ members.
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Bodhi,
Competition has always improved the final delivery of goods and services to the general public. We have walked as one voice til now and there are still 50 versions of rules. You will never set an amount here and that be the rule. You have less provinces and still have different hours. Are you speaking as one voice. Hopefully, no profession speaks with one voice. I don't see one voice even from the medical field itself.
Your "the sky is falling" scenario, that we won't be able to handle any "pitfall" is weak. We will be fine, Bodhi. We don't need 2,200-3,000 hours to be fine.
Bodhi Haraldsson said:The existence of competing national entities can prevent the profession from speaking with one national voice
the existence of competing national entities can result in lost opportunities for the profession and its patients
existence of comp...eting national entities will result in duplication of effort, needless waste of precious resources and perceived disunity of the profession
conflict resulting from the existence of competing national entities serves as an impediment to the advancement of the profession
How much further could the profession go if there was unity, sharing of resource/man power?
how are you going to avoid these pitfalls?
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Oh course you want to talk competencies because you can't put an hour figure to that. Bodhi we are talking hours and how your system can manipulate the school system to where they justify whatever they want to charge. I will not stop talking hours and give yoiu the premise that that is the correct way to go.
Telling a student that they have to stay in school until they are "competent" to a teacher, that may or may not like them and has that power over them is not going to happen in America.
On paper some of what you are saying makes sense. But just a point here. We are to go until we are competent, but even you set 2200 hours? Do you take a competency exam? What is your success rate? Why are students failing with this many hours? How do you differentiate between spa and those paid through the state? What options are there being a massage therapists are there? Or is it that they can do spa at another competency level? Are you saying every person entering any aspect of massage in Canada must have this many hours?
Bodhi Haraldsson said:Mike, You have completely taken my comments out of context. ( he is referring to my comments on FB.
I never suggested that you should be "forced" or should to adopt our Canadian system. I only use the British Columbia as an example. Like the US we have various systems and regulations. Thus there is no "Canadian" system or a Canadian way.
What I have said is that hours are not appropriate way of discussion how the profession should be educated.
What I have said is that you need to debate competencies and how you see that profession.
It appears to me that you are the one not wanting to debate rather use highly incorrect political rhetoric to shut me down
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As a point of clarification, no, I didn't ask to have it set back. I simply made the observation that further time for development might be a good idea.
As it is, the idea of MTAA is coming off as pretty half-assed and without a lot of thought put into it, especially considering the plethora of unanswered questions. Although I'm sure you'll just pooh-pooh that commentary as just my opinion, that I'm welcome to it, that I don't have to join, and/or that I should start my own group.
E.
Mike Hinkle said:This means, you asked to set this back until 2012.
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Laura--
Your feedback is much appreciated. I can understand why the FSMTB was voted on in-person, as it was a number of years ago, but it appears (from AMTA's example) that mail and online voting are perfectly valid ways of conducting elections as well. With that in mind, did any of the person(s) responsible for the main push behind those vote-in-person board organizations insist that the voting be held at a for-profit event hosted by those same person(s)? If so, how did they address any issues of cronyism or conflict of interest?
I have a number of issues with Mike's proposals, the strongest of which is that I am unable to get reasonable, coherent, thoughtful answers out of him. I don't appreciate the disregard of the sound, legitimate questions that have been put forth to him that he is either unable or unwilling to answer, and I resent the dismissive or antagonistic attitudes he displays towards the questioners.
I'm hearing a lot of "because I say so" and "don't worry, trust me," but I'm not the kind of person to drink the Kool-aid without asking what's in the cup.
E.
Laura Allen said:
Just as an interjection into this lively discussion, re the being present to vote: that is definitely not without precedence in startup organizations for the seating of a first board. The same thing happened when the Alliance for Massage Therapy Education was formed; those of us who were present were the ones who got to vote. It also happened at the Federation of State Massage Therapy Boards; those who were present got to vote. AMTA has currently over 50,000 members who are eligible to vote, and only 1800 of them voted in the last election which is conducted by mail and electronic voting. As a matter of fact, at the state chapter level, our officers are voted on by the membership who is present at the annual meeting, which is usually about 100-150 of us out of our 1800+ members.
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