massage and bodywork professionals
a community of practitioners
The Massage Therapy Alliance of America - A New Alliance For Therapists!
We are so excited for Massage Therapists!!! But, instead of re-explaining it here, go to the source at http://www.mtaamassage.org
Some of the debate that will take place on this topic will be heated. If opposing sides discussing issues is not your cup of tea, just visit the website. FYI!
Views: 518
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Erica Olson on
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*raises hand* I'm on the BOD for two local non-profits, both relatively young, and volunteer with a third. One has, in the last year or so, shifted from operating under a general 501(c)3 license via a community foundation to operating under its own recognizance. The other has explored various avenues about going on its own or shifting their umbrella organization.
Under no circumstances is there any secretiveness about the identity of the BOD nor the criteria for choosing them. In fact, as am I preparing to step down from one board in lieu of becoming its employee, openness and transparency have been key issues. I have also served on a city-funded grant application board for non-profits; again, transparency has been an up-front Must, not a "we'll get around to it as soon as we figure it out."
I agree that it is not uncommon for new organizations (including both for-profit and not-for-profit) to develop a crisis of identity multiple times along their establishment, but they generally have a cohesive mission statement before going public. In addition, I have never seen someone accused of having "trust issues" for simply asking clarifying questions about an organization, its identity, or its guiding members.
E.
Mike Hinkle said:
Hi Bianca,
Have you ever created a non-profit? This is the way it happens. The Alliance for Massage Therapy Education was recently formed and it was done the same way. The program has been defined as well as any are when they start. As with massage you start with intent and then create. If you haven't understood the intent, I'm sorry, "we're going to improve massage as best we can". No crystal ball to tell exacts, and boards aren't real exact anywys, but this is the method in which these events happen. You have an idea, gather folks and vote. That's how they form and how we are going to also. Thanks!
Bianca Berrios said:Mike, I have to say it boggles my mind that a new organization is spreading the word for members for a group that, "hasn't been identifed yet or voted upon, are going to do"...????
Mike Hinkle said:Hi Bianca,
Yeah, it's kinda hard to tell you what a group that hasn't been identified yet or voted upon are going to do.
Any initial vote almost always takes place physically in a location. Once the Alliance is up and running, they may have a secure website and funding that will allow online voting, I hope. Or they could do mail or whatever method they decide. The Festival is the biggest event I have to be able to gather the largest amount of therapists. And provide a location for free to the Alliance for the initial election. You do not have to register for the Festival or take classes to vote. I have created the opportunity, I cannot control the economy or people savings. All I can do is not charge people to join. That is the most money I can save you. I could have added a fee, but it wasn't needed.
How many massages I do a week is irrelevant. I owned the 7 room Pensacola Massage Center in FL. I am licensed in FL. NCB AMTA MTAA and I still work 18-20 hours a day for the profession.
You apparently will have to wait to see what they can do for you until after the election. I understand. I can not tell you what they will do for you. However, I think those that join and express their concerns will probably set the direction that the Alliance takes.
You be well too. Thanks... have a great evening!
Bianca Berrios said:I noticed on your site that in order to vote for the board of directors who will lead this "alliance" for all of us therapists, you have to physically be at your festival to vote. If I join for free now but may not be able to get to your festival (considering the economy), how is my voice being represented in the "alliance"? In addition, I don't seem to be getting to the "bottom-line" if you will, in regards to what this "alliance" will do for myself and all the other therapists across America....
(btw I'm curious with all these different ventures you have; festival, "alliance", "I am massage directory", etc.; how many massages do you actually do during a 7 day week?)
Just for the record it will take a whole lot more info for me to pay into another association. As I will not speak for others, but for myself alone between insurance, state license, ceu's and nctmb renewal; I find I am overloaded with fees to just stay in practice. In addition for someone such as myself who was in corporate for 9 years I'm done with meetings and prefer to spend my time giving my full attention to builting my practice and to my clients.
Look forward to hearing your reply. As always be well...
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Permalink Reply by Mike Hinkle on
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Hi Erica,
Yes many folks have sent the info requested to join. They know the info is out there and it doesn't bother them to do so. Yes any one can find the info. The benefit is when the new BOD is starting, they will have the information to contact folks, that want to start making a difference and get the Alliance moving. I like this rather than to sit back, wait till the election and then start the process. By my doing it this way, we already have hundreds of people that know about the Alliance, the election, have volunteers and the BOD can be handed a membership list to get going. Also people are being told of its formation and can make plans to run for office, find good travel plans and prepare to serve. I think this is the right way to do this and that is what I am doing.
If it bothers anyone this way, I guess they won't join. They'll wait for the board to form, hire a website designer, attain a secure website and certificate and then they can put their information into a secure site with them. It will be the same knowledge that is already out there, but they'll feel better.
Erica Olson said:Wait . . . what do you mean by "many are"? Many are signing up & giving personal info? Many are physically going to the festivals, thus gaining the right to vote? Something else?
As for your later comment about finding Lisa's personal information, there is a vast difference between information being readily handed over versus it being available through a search. Any security geek will vouch for that. I too would like to know what the benefit of handing over my personal information would be, versus putting myself at deliberate risk of spam, phishing, or identity theft. I'm not accusing you of any of the above, but it happens. As part of that, although I may have missed it, I didn't see the "list your info" page read as secure; ergo, it's completely possible that a third party could have access to my personal information via hacking into the database, especially without any sort of rudimentary firewalls.
Mike Hinkle said:Many are Lisa. Whether you do or not is your choice, Night!
Lisa said:Mike....how can you expect us to sign up and give our personal information that's required in the registration form (name, address, phone number, license no., business name, etc.) if you can't tell us what the group is going to do? I, for one, do not join associations just based on a friendly network. I base it on what the association will do for both myself and the industry. I have read everything on your Alliance site and still can not figure out the why's in joining. I am not trying to give you a hard time, however I AM an educated professional and as such expect more information before joining an organization.
I also have to agree with Bianca regarding the voting. The BODs are an important factor in any organization. And if this organization is suppose to speak for ALL therapists, but is only elected by the ones that can physically go to YOUR festival, I don't see how that is not political or representative of all OUR voices. Such an organization should have it's BODs voted by ALL members of the Alliance, not just the ones that can afford to make it to NC.
Mike Hinkle said:Hi Bianca,
Yeah, it's kinda hard to tell you what a group that hasn't been identified yet or voted upon are going to do.
Any initial vote almost always takes place physically in a location. Once the Alliance is up and running, they may have a secure website and funding that will allow online voting, I hope. Or they could do mail or whatever method they decide. The Festival is the biggest event I have to be able to gather the largest amount of therapists. And provide a location for free to the Alliance for the initial election. You do not have to register for the Festival or take classes to vote. I have created the opportunity, I cannot control the economy or people savings. All I can do is not charge people to join. That is the most money I can save you. I could have added a fee, but it wasn't needed.
How many massages I do a week is irrelevant. I owned the 7 room Pensacola Massage Center in FL. I am licensed in FL. NCB AMTA MTAA and I still work 18-20 hours a day for the profession.
You apparently will have to wait to see what they can do for you until after the election. I understand. I can not tell you what they will do for you. However, I think those that join and express their concerns will probably set the direction that the Alliance takes.
You be well too. Thanks... have a great evening!
Bianca Berrios said:I noticed on your site that in order to vote for the board of directors who will lead this "alliance" for all of us therapists, you have to physically be at your festival to vote. If I join for free now but may not be able to get to your festival (considering the economy), how is my voice being represented in the "alliance"? In addition, I don't seem to be getting to the "bottom-line" if you will, in regards to what this "alliance" will do for myself and all the other therapists across America....
(btw I'm curious with all these different ventures you have; festival, "alliance", "I am massage directory", etc.; how many massages do you actually do during a 7 day week?)
Just for the record it will take a whole lot more info for me to pay into another association. As I will not speak for others, but for myself alone between insurance, state license, ceu's and nctmb renewal; I find I am overloaded with fees to just stay in practice. In addition for someone such as myself who was in corporate for 9 years I'm done with meetings and prefer to spend my time giving my full attention to builting my practice and to my clients.
Look forward to hearing your reply. As always be well...
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Sorry, you chose bad companies with these problems.
"Under no circumstances is there any secretiveness about the identity of the BOD nor the criteria for choosing them."
Could not agree more. There is no BOD and the criteria for choosing them is at http://www.mtaamassage.org
I feel the mission statement is broad enough to allow the Alliance to do, as it sees needed.
Erica Olson said:*raises hand* I'm on the BOD for two local non-profits, both relatively young, and volunteer with a third. One has, in the last year or so, shifted from operating under a general 501(c)3 license via a community foundation to operating under its own recognizance. The other has explored various avenues about going on its own or shifting their umbrella organization.
Under no circumstances is there any secretiveness about the identity of the BOD nor the criteria for choosing them. In fact, as am I preparing to step down from one board in lieu of becoming its employee, openness and transparency have been key issues. I have also served on a city-funded grant application board for non-profits; again, transparency has been an up-front Must, not a "we'll get around to it as soon as we figure it out."
I agree that it is not uncommon for new organizations (including both for-profit and not-for-profit) to develop a crisis of identity multiple times along their establishment, but they generally have a cohesive mission statement before going public. In addition, I have never seen someone accused of having "trust issues" for simply asking clarifying questions about an organization, its identity, or its guiding members.
E.
Mike Hinkle said:
Hi Bianca,
Have you ever created a non-profit? This is the way it happens. The Alliance for Massage Therapy Education was recently formed and it was done the same way. The program has been defined as well as any are when they start. As with massage you start with intent and then create. If you haven't understood the intent, I'm sorry, "we're going to improve massage as best we can". No crystal ball to tell exacts, and boards aren't real exact anywys, but this is the method in which these events happen. You have an idea, gather folks and vote. That's how they form and how we are going to also. Thanks!
Bianca Berrios said:Mike, I have to say it boggles my mind that a new organization is spreading the word for members for a group that, "hasn't been identifed yet or voted upon, are going to do"...????
Mike Hinkle said:Hi Bianca,
Yeah, it's kinda hard to tell you what a group that hasn't been identified yet or voted upon are going to do.
Any initial vote almost always takes place physically in a location. Once the Alliance is up and running, they may have a secure website and funding that will allow online voting, I hope. Or they could do mail or whatever method they decide. The Festival is the biggest event I have to be able to gather the largest amount of therapists. And provide a location for free to the Alliance for the initial election. You do not have to register for the Festival or take classes to vote. I have created the opportunity, I cannot control the economy or people savings. All I can do is not charge people to join. That is the most money I can save you. I could have added a fee, but it wasn't needed.
How many massages I do a week is irrelevant. I owned the 7 room Pensacola Massage Center in FL. I am licensed in FL. NCB AMTA MTAA and I still work 18-20 hours a day for the profession.
You apparently will have to wait to see what they can do for you until after the election. I understand. I can not tell you what they will do for you. However, I think those that join and express their concerns will probably set the direction that the Alliance takes.
You be well too. Thanks... have a great evening!
Bianca Berrios said:I noticed on your site that in order to vote for the board of directors who will lead this "alliance" for all of us therapists, you have to physically be at your festival to vote. If I join for free now but may not be able to get to your festival (considering the economy), how is my voice being represented in the "alliance"? In addition, I don't seem to be getting to the "bottom-line" if you will, in regards to what this "alliance" will do for myself and all the other therapists across America....
(btw I'm curious with all these different ventures you have; festival, "alliance", "I am massage directory", etc.; how many massages do you actually do during a 7 day week?)
Just for the record it will take a whole lot more info for me to pay into another association. As I will not speak for others, but for myself alone between insurance, state license, ceu's and nctmb renewal; I find I am overloaded with fees to just stay in practice. In addition for someone such as myself who was in corporate for 9 years I'm done with meetings and prefer to spend my time giving my full attention to builting my practice and to my clients.
Look forward to hearing your reply. As always be well...
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Permalink Reply by Travis Alligood on
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Id like to add a comment on giving/receiving out to much info, I feel like there is already to much info about me online, not that it matters. The info was there when I started using the internet years ago, It was nerve wracking to me as to how this info got out there, it made me very attentive as to how I monitored it from that point on. Im with everyone on the security issue here. But as a MT here with this group of knowledge for the most part I feel comfortable talking to anyone here, and I do not mind sharing my thoughts with anyone. This is what I thought I was here for. Luckily I have had the privilege of meeting new people here and being able to create healthy/informational/online relationships with a few, and look forward to more. When I started MT school , I had no idea what I may be getting myself into, after years of another profession and the fear of starting another one, I went to school graduated got licensed, took a time out to see what I have accomplished. To me its overwhelming and I am just as excited today to be where Im at as I was when I graduated.(Aug. 08)
All the time I was in school I was told about different issues that have gone on in this profession and I should join a organization such as ABMP, or AMTA. At that time I really didnt see anything different between the 2. Is there a group out there that does not sell insurance? Is this new association going to sell insurance, will I meet new instructors in this group, and will there be CE opportunities , for me ? As a new member of this group I feel like when the smoke clears and the people here want to make a difference in our profession, will be here, and when others see the difference in what has been done if they are truly compassionate about what has happened I think it will make a difference, and the numbers will grow.
By the way, I feel like that there are more qualifyed MTs out there than me to run for a postion. So I want to clear the air on that subject. Im looking forward to seeing the outcome. As we grow more and more in this world we live in as MTs we need to be heard and I feel comfortable where this is headed. Peace
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Permalink Reply by Lisa on
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If it bothers anyone this way, I guess they won't join. They'll wait for the board to form, hire a website designer, attain a secure website and certificate and then they can put their information into a secure site with them. It will be the same knowledge that is already out there, but they'll feel better.
It's comments like this that continue to make my neck hairs curl!!! Can you be any more condescending? Way to treat colleagues with respect. We are asking professional questions and you are throwing snide remarks instead of just answering them.
Perhaps at some point in this discussion you should have said "hey maybe I was too quick in putting the Alliance out there" or "hey you guys have valid points, it'd be great to see some of you on the board", or any number of other comments that would have elicited a spirit of openness and cooperation. But instead, you get defensive, you scoot around clear cut questions, and then when you don't have an answer that satisfies, you go for the jugular. That is NOT the kind of attitude I want representing me.
I have questioned, from day one on this site, the political undertones that are here. But this tops it all. This is NOT an alliance for the therapists by the therapists. this is ANOTHER venture of YOURS. Every time you respond, it's all about YOU. YOUR symposiums. YOUR festival. YOUR ideas. YOUR by-laws. I have been participating in this discussion with the hopes of THE alliance being something good for OUR profession, but it's YOUR responses that have continually made me disillusioned at the whole thing. Those that know me will vouch when I say, it takes a LOT to get me riled on a topic. But I assure you of this...when I am riled I am vocal. And this is something that I hope all those following the discussion will learn from in that you MUST put thought in the things you join up with.
Let's talk about the vital personal info being requested. It took me two minutes on the net to find out this info on you. So it isn't that personal of info and if you've taken steps to secure it. You failed. Would you like to post it all here?
And since you wanted to go HERE...then let's go here. Erica made a VALID point. It's one thing for ME to voluntarily give out my information. (if you noticed, when I wrote I stated clearly: And I have learned to protect that information to some extent.) But it's another thing for your unsecured site to be hacked into and given my information. Honestly, as I started getting more passionate about this, and starting viewing all your different ventures, what really chapped my ass was that you have a design company in which you charge people to design web sites and marketing materials. That in and of itself doesn't bother me at all. I commend all those that can offer up other products and services but still remain massage-based. It's a smart business decision. I am doing it myself. But as we got more into this discussion, I couldn't help but see ANOTHER conflict of interest in that you alone, will now have information on all those that DON'T have a web site established and it then becomes a perfect, coincidentally, opportunity for you to market your business to them for design. Now granted, that's probably my mind WAY on overdrive. But I've been in marketing for 20 something years. I know the value of listings in marketing a business. Listings like that go for HUNDREDS of dollars. So when I stumbled across this, it became a huge red flag in my brain.
I'm sorry Mike, but the way you have gone about this new venture called an alliance is FLAWED. And as a colleague in the profession, and a business professional, you should be open and willing to recognize this and take feedback, if you truly want this venture to succeed. But instead you have shown yourself to be closed minded and only willing to hear the cheers and ego-stroking accolades. This to me tells me you are not the person to be bringing such a VOICE of OUR profession.
But then again, I'm not a VETERAN of the profession and as you stated "So far as old ideas versus new ideas concerning writing by-laws... I'll stick with veterans and since I am the incorporater, that would be my choice."
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Permalink Reply by Relax & Rejuvenate on
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I see this is a huge waste of time and effort through duplication.
This is not about insurance or testing, though I am rather shocked at the number of MTs who are unaffiliated, which makes me wonder where they get their insurance now that IMA is out of the insurance business. Larger groups have a louder voice, you are diluting whatever message you are trying to put forth for the profession.
You also assume the unaffiliated do so not out of a distaste for affiliation, but rather they don't want to be affiliated with the existing groups. Sounds alot like the cry "Independents, Unite!"
Why does "service" mean holding some elected office. Try "volunteering". Titles and elections are for self-aggrandizement. Volunteers get plenty done, and usually more than elected officials --- just look what church groups can accomplish vs. gov't programs.
1. Therapists lack sales skills. No doubt. A _ _ _ should make this part of the benefit of being ;a member -- on-line education. Not CEU, webinars for anyone to learn what they need to know. THis does not take a new organization.
2. Legislation information to therapists is slow and lacks much detail. Local issue. Why not volunteer to be the legislative liaison for your state chapter of A _ _ _ and keep everyone up to date?
3. Central location for Continuing Education around the US. Therapists should be able to easily find education wherever they are. Do you mean central database? Why not press AMTA/NCBMTB or ABMP to make this part of what they offer members. This is a task for strong administrators, not MTs. CEUs have to be certified by the individual state in most cases, so a "central CEU university" would be impractical. Why doesn't each state chapter of A _ _ _ have a CEU Czar to keep track of it all and spread the word?
4. A new approach to how we deal with the public. (Details will be shown to the new board first, as they are my ideas.) ABMP/AMTA should hire a PR firm
There are are over 100,000 therapists that have no voice right now -- by their own choice!
Mike Hinkle said:Hi,
We are not starting an Association or 3rd party. We are not taking on anyone. There will be no dilution, as therapists will not give up their insurance coverage to join the Alliance that does not sell insurance. So there is no competition for anyone. This effort is to bring everyone, including those out there with no representation, together. This should benefit both ABMP and AMTA, as "new" people will be introduced to their programs and insurance. Half of our therapists are out there are not affiliated with any Association. We will try to approach them and get them in the loop. I spoke with the owner of ABMP, Bob Benson, about this and he was very supportive. ABMP has supported all our efforts so far. They see our intention is to grow the profession, not to control it.
I think the Associations are very busy with their programs. There is so much going on that needs attention, that the situation cries out for more therapists to get involved in the profession. So many people want to serve. They run for office and the same one's just keep getting elected. A lot of talent could be improving this profession, but they are always waiting for the next election to make a difference. Sitting back has rarely been an option to me. This program has started.
We are an Alliance of just therapists. Massage therapists only will be allowed to vote on policies. We will look for weaknesses in the profession and try to sure them up. Therapists need help with sales, promotions, legislation and protection. By protection, I mean if David Letterman or Elisabeth Hasslebeck are derogatory towards therapists, it's hard for the Associations to holler too loudly because they could lose membership. If that is one our goals, we can step up for them, as an insulator. We are here to help the profession. And we will show you that in the years to come. Thanks for your comments and time!
Mike
Relax & Rejuvenate said:I am not sure why this organization is necessary given the existence of AMTA and ABMP. Why dilute efforts with a 3rd party?
Claiming you were founded "by and for" the group you are serving does not mean a whole lot, what is the advantage in this? I would be the other two started that way as well.
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We will find our way. The information is out there and the info is for the Alliance to get going. I understand people's questions, I expected no less. I agree, Travis. But you do have other choices now. There is Hands On Trade, AMC and Massage Magazine that all sell insurance as well.
Can't understand why you are comparing us to those folks. We are not a carrier. We are a new instrument in the profession. We are an Alliance with a common goal of improving the profession. We are not an Association like ABMP.
I know I am not the person to run such a group. But I am the person to start it. I am not smooth around the edges. I get in and get it done. Could it be done differently? There are many ways to accomplish things. I have to do it my way.
The vote that will take place in Cullowhee will be for the placement of those that will lead. I know there will be many there wanting to get to growing the profession. We'll see ya there.
Travis Alligood said:Id like to add a comment on giving/receiving out to much info, I feel like there is already to much info about me online, not that it matters. The info was there when I started using the internet years ago, It was nerve wracking to me as to how this info got out there, it made me very attentive as to how I monitored it from that point on. Im with everyone on the security issue here. But as a MT here with this group of knowledge for the most part I feel comfortable talking to anyone here, and I do not mind sharing my thoughts with anyone. This is what I thought I was here for. Luckily I have had the privilege of meeting new people here and being able to create healthy/informational/online relationships with a few, and look forward to more. When I started MT school , I had no idea what I may be getting myself into, after years of another profession and the fear of starting another one, I went to school graduated got licensed, took a time out to see what I have accomplished. To me its overwhelming and I am just as excited today to be where Im at as I was when I graduated.(Aug. 08)
All the time I was in school I was told about different issues that have gone on in this profession and I should join a organization such as ABMP, or AMTA. At that time I really didnt see anything different between the 2. Is there a group out there that does not sell insurance? Is this new association going to sell insurance, will I meet new instructors in this group, and will there be CE opportunities , for me ? As a new member of this group I feel like when the smoke clears and the people here want to make a difference in our profession, will be here, and when others see the difference in what has been done if they are truly compassionate about what has happened I think it will make a difference, and the numbers will grow.
By the way, I feel like that there are more qualifyed MTs out there than me to run for a postion. So I want to clear the air on that subject. Im looking forward to seeing the outcome. As we grow more and more in this world we live in as MTs we need to be heard and I feel comfortable where this is headed. Peace
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What does selling insurance have to do with anything?
What I was a photojournalism, the NPPA offered insurance programs, but they were an incredible association for further education, legislation (like cameras in the courtroom) and defending the rights of its members (over zealous cops arresting photographers for instance) and protecting the image of the profession (rememember "Animal" on Lou Grant."
A new "instrument"....instrument of what?
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Lisa,Hi ! I have been reading your thoughts, and I for one respect your thoughts for the most part, communication was not always my favorite subject, untill I got on my own as a MT, But now I can make the decisions to make right as necessary with my clients as Im sure you do with yours, and you did not get to where you are today by not being the person you are. The MTAA needs somebody like you wether being the part of the devils advocate or making MT decisions. Ive not joined in a lot of your conversations in your other blogs because of the large array of other opportunties that I have here. But with your thinking I feel I would vote for you for a position in leadership because you are open minded and seem to not be afraid to step outside of the box. There may be MTs out here that may read your threads and say that your communication is not something that they want to hear, personnaly Im an opened minded MT who is not afraid to step outside of the box as well,so I read most post and respond the best that I know. Wether or not I convey myself, I do try to make it right, to answer any questions that someone may ask.
Your comments, towards improving by laws should use old and new ideas, because isnt this where this group of people are heading. I think if we as MTs are happy we can make our clients happy. Again there is the scenario of an MT just doing there own thing by themselves and I respect that. My thoughts are I just do not want my career going stale and at the rate Im going I feel really good about mine but then again I was happy before this thread started, but if there is a chance of improving myself as a MT then why not? Peace
. Lisa said:
If it bothers anyone this way, I guess they won't join. They'll wait for the board to form, hire a website designer, attain a secure website and certificate and then they can put their information into a secure site with them. It will be the same knowledge that is already out there, but they'll feel better.
It's comments like this that continue to make my neck hairs curl!!! Can you be any more condescending? Way to treat colleagues with respect. We are asking professional questions and you are throwing snide remarks instead of just answering them.
Perhaps at some point in this discussion you should have said "hey maybe I was too quick in putting the Alliance out there" or "hey you guys have valid points, it'd be great to see some of you on the board", or any number of other comments that would have elicited a spirit of openness and cooperation. But instead, you get defensive, you scoot around clear cut questions, and then when you don't have an answer that satisfies, you go for the jugular. That is NOT the kind of attitude I want representing me.
I have questioned, from day one on this site, the political undertones that are here. But this tops it all. This is NOT an alliance for the therapists by the therapists. this is ANOTHER venture of YOURS. Every time you respond, it's all about YOU. YOUR symposiums. YOUR festival. YOUR ideas. YOUR by-laws. I have been participating in this discussion with the hopes of THE alliance being something good for OUR profession, but it's YOUR responses that have continually made me disillusioned at the whole thing. Those that know me will vouch when I say, it takes a LOT to get me riled on a topic. But I assure you of this...when I am riled I am vocal. And this is something that I hope all those following the discussion will learn from in that you MUST put thought in the things you join up with.
Let's talk about the vital personal info being requested. It took me two minutes on the net to find out this info on you. So it isn't that personal of info and if you've taken steps to secure it. You failed. Would you like to post it all here?
And since you wanted to go HERE...then let's go here. Erica made a VALID point. It's one thing for ME to voluntarily give out my information. (if you noticed, when I wrote I stated clearly: And I have learned to protect that information to some extent.) But it's another thing for your unsecured site to be hacked into and given my information. Honestly, as I started getting more passionate about this, and starting viewing all your different ventures, what really chapped my ass was that you have a design company in which you charge people to design web sites and marketing materials. That in and of itself doesn't bother me at all. I commend all those that can offer up other products and services but still remain massage-based. It's a smart business decision. I am doing it myself. But as we got more into this discussion, I couldn't help but see ANOTHER conflict of interest in that you alone, will now have information on all those that DON'T have a web site established and it then becomes a perfect, coincidentally, opportunity for you to market your business to them for design. Now granted, that's probably my mind WAY on overdrive. But I've been in marketing for 20 something years. I know the value of listings in marketing a business. Listings like that go for HUNDREDS of dollars. So when I stumbled across this, it became a huge red flag in my brain.
I'm sorry Mike, but the way you have gone about this new venture called an alliance is FLAWED. And as a colleague in the profession, and a business professional, you should be open and willing to recognize this and take feedback, if you truly want this venture to succeed. But instead you have shown yourself to be closed minded and only willing to hear the cheers and ego-stroking accolades. This to me tells me you are not the person to be bringing such a VOICE of OUR profession.
But then again, I'm not a VETERAN of the profession and as you stated "So far as old ideas versus new ideas concerning writing by-laws... I'll stick with veterans and since I am the incorporater, that would be my choice."
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Mike I was referring back to an earlier comment, about insurance and as far as I can tell MTAAmassge does not,and will not sell insurance. Did not mean to mislead anyone.
Mike Hinkle said:We will find our way. The information is out there and the info is for the Alliance to get going. I understand people's questions, I expected no less. I agree, Travis. But you do have other choices now. There is Hands On Trade, AMC and Massage Magazine that all sell insurance as well.
Can't understand why you are comparing us to those folks. We are not a carrier. We are a new instrument in the profession. We are an Alliance with a common goal of improving the profession. We are not an Association like ABMP.
I know I am not the person to run such a group. But I am the person to start it. I am not smooth around the edges. I get in and get it done. Could it be done differently? There are many ways to accomplish things. I have to do it my way.
The vote that will take place in Cullowhee will be for the placement of those that will lead. I know there will be many there wanting to get to growing the profession. We'll see ya there.
Travis Alligood said:Id like to add a comment on giving/receiving out to much info, I feel like there is already to much info about me online, not that it matters. The info was there when I started using the internet years ago, It was nerve wracking to me as to how this info got out there, it made me very attentive as to how I monitored it from that point on. Im with everyone on the security issue here. But as a MT here with this group of knowledge for the most part I feel comfortable talking to anyone here, and I do not mind sharing my thoughts with anyone. This is what I thought I was here for. Luckily I have had the privilege of meeting new people here and being able to create healthy/informational/online relationships with a few, and look forward to more. When I started MT school , I had no idea what I may be getting myself into, after years of another profession and the fear of starting another one, I went to school graduated got licensed, took a time out to see what I have accomplished. To me its overwhelming and I am just as excited today to be where Im at as I was when I graduated.(Aug. 08)
All the time I was in school I was told about different issues that have gone on in this profession and I should join a organization such as ABMP, or AMTA. At that time I really didnt see anything different between the 2. Is there a group out there that does not sell insurance? Is this new association going to sell insurance, will I meet new instructors in this group, and will there be CE opportunities , for me ? As a new member of this group I feel like when the smoke clears and the people here want to make a difference in our profession, will be here, and when others see the difference in what has been done if they are truly compassionate about what has happened I think it will make a difference, and the numbers will grow.
By the way, I feel like that there are more qualifyed MTs out there than me to run for a postion. So I want to clear the air on that subject. Im looking forward to seeing the outcome. As we grow more and more in this world we live in as MTs we need to be heard and I feel comfortable where this is headed. Peace
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. . . or, people haven't thought about the ramifications of signing up and voluntarily putting themselves on yet another marketing list, particularly on an unsecure site. Lisa also has an excellent point about the resale value of such listings.
Speaking of resale values and so forth, I still haven't seen you address the following questions:
- Why do people have to vote in person at the World Massage Festival? Even though you state people do not have to attend classes or register for WMF, what is the likelihood of interested parties thinking, "Oh well, I'm here, I might as well take a few classes or go to some presentations"? Is that not a conflict of interest?
- Along those lines, how can MTAA claim to represent ALL MTs, and not just the wishes of those with enough time and money to travel to WMF in order to cast their votes? That doesn't sound at all democratic to me. There's a reason that elections have vast numbers of polling places in a city or write-in ballots.
- Who is on this Leadership Team? Why is it up to them to determine the validity of any ballot cast for the BOD? What is the criteria for being on said team? Other than "veteran therapists," why won't you tell us anything about them? What are their names? What are their backgrounds and affiliations? Do any of them have any experience with creating non-profits?
These are all valid questions and I would appreciate thoughtful, detailed answers to them.
Mike Hinkle said:
Hi Erica,
Yes many folks have sent the info requested to join. They know the info is out there and it doesn't bother them to do so. Yes any one can find the info. The benefit is when the new BOD is starting, they will have the information to contact folks, that want to start making a difference and get the Alliance moving. I like this rather than to sit back, wait till the election and then start the process. By my doing it this way, we already have hundreds of people that know about the Alliance, the election, have volunteers and the BOD can be handed a membership list to get going. Also people are being told of its formation and can make plans to run for office, find good travel plans and prepare to serve. I think this is the right way to do this and that is what I am doing.
If it bothers anyone this way, I guess they won't join. They'll wait for the board to form, hire a website designer, attain a secure website and certificate and then they can put their information into a secure site with them. It will be the same knowledge that is already out there, but they'll feel better.
Erica Olson said:Wait . . . what do you mean by "many are"? Many are signing up & giving personal info? Many are physically going to the festivals, thus gaining the right to vote? Something else?
As for your later comment about finding Lisa's personal information, there is a vast difference between information being readily handed over versus it being available through a search. Any security geek will vouch for that. I too would like to know what the benefit of handing over my personal information would be, versus putting myself at deliberate risk of spam, phishing, or identity theft. I'm not accusing you of any of the above, but it happens. As part of that, although I may have missed it, I didn't see the "list your info" page read as secure; ergo, it's completely possible that a third party could have access to my personal information via hacking into the database, especially without any sort of rudimentary firewalls.
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Thank you Travis. Your thoughts are always welcome and I believe we all have something to learn from each other as long as it's done with respect. Feel free to comment at any time. :)
Travis Alligood said:
Lisa,Hi ! I have been reading your thoughts, and I for one respect your thoughts for the most part, communication was not always my favorite subject, untill I got on my own as a MT, But now I can make the decisions to make right as necessary with my clients as Im sure you do with yours, and you did not get to where you are today by not being the person you are. The MTAA needs somebody like you wether being the part of the devils advocate or making MT decisions. Ive not joined in a lot of your conversations in your other blogs because of the large array of other opportunties that I have here. But with your thinking I feel I would vote for you for a position in leadership because you are open minded and seem to not be afraid to step outside of the box. There may be MTs out here that may read your threads and say that your communication is not something that they want to hear, personnaly Im an opened minded MT who is not afraid to step outside of the box as well,so I read most post and respond the best that I know. Wether or not I convey myself, I do try to make it right, to answer any questions that someone may ask.
Your comments, towards improving by laws should use old and new ideas, because isnt this where this group of people are heading. I think if we as MTs are happy we can make our clients happy. Again there is the scenario of an MT just doing there own thing by themselves and I respect that. My thoughts are I just do not want my career going stale and at the rate Im going I feel really good about mine but then again I was happy before this thread started, but if there is a chance of improving myself as a MT then why not? Peace
. Lisa said:
If it bothers anyone this way, I guess they won't join. They'll wait for the board to form, hire a website designer, attain a secure website and certificate and then they can put their information into a secure site with them. It will be the same knowledge that is already out there, but they'll feel better.
It's comments like this that continue to make my neck hairs curl!!! Can you be any more condescending? Way to treat colleagues with respect. We are asking professional questions and you are throwing snide remarks instead of just answering them.
Perhaps at some point in this discussion you should have said "hey maybe I was too quick in putting the Alliance out there" or "hey you guys have valid points, it'd be great to see some of you on the board", or any number of other comments that would have elicited a spirit of openness and cooperation. But instead, you get defensive, you scoot around clear cut questions, and then when you don't have an answer that satisfies, you go for the jugular. That is NOT the kind of attitude I want representing me.
I have questioned, from day one on this site, the political undertones that are here. But this tops it all. This is NOT an alliance for the therapists by the therapists. this is ANOTHER venture of YOURS. Every time you respond, it's all about YOU. YOUR symposiums. YOUR festival. YOUR ideas. YOUR by-laws. I have been participating in this discussion with the hopes of THE alliance being something good for OUR profession, but it's YOUR responses that have continually made me disillusioned at the whole thing. Those that know me will vouch when I say, it takes a LOT to get me riled on a topic. But I assure you of this...when I am riled I am vocal. And this is something that I hope all those following the discussion will learn from in that you MUST put thought in the things you join up with.
Let's talk about the vital personal info being requested. It took me two minutes on the net to find out this info on you. So it isn't that personal of info and if you've taken steps to secure it. You failed. Would you like to post it all here?
And since you wanted to go HERE...then let's go here. Erica made a VALID point. It's one thing for ME to voluntarily give out my information. (if you noticed, when I wrote I stated clearly: And I have learned to protect that information to some extent.) But it's another thing for your unsecured site to be hacked into and given my information. Honestly, as I started getting more passionate about this, and starting viewing all your different ventures, what really chapped my ass was that you have a design company in which you charge people to design web sites and marketing materials. That in and of itself doesn't bother me at all. I commend all those that can offer up other products and services but still remain massage-based. It's a smart business decision. I am doing it myself. But as we got more into this discussion, I couldn't help but see ANOTHER conflict of interest in that you alone, will now have information on all those that DON'T have a web site established and it then becomes a perfect, coincidentally, opportunity for you to market your business to them for design. Now granted, that's probably my mind WAY on overdrive. But I've been in marketing for 20 something years. I know the value of listings in marketing a business. Listings like that go for HUNDREDS of dollars. So when I stumbled across this, it became a huge red flag in my brain.
I'm sorry Mike, but the way you have gone about this new venture called an alliance is FLAWED. And as a colleague in the profession, and a business professional, you should be open and willing to recognize this and take feedback, if you truly want this venture to succeed. But instead you have shown yourself to be closed minded and only willing to hear the cheers and ego-stroking accolades. This to me tells me you are not the person to be bringing such a VOICE of OUR profession.
But then again, I'm not a VETERAN of the profession and as you stated "So far as old ideas versus new ideas concerning writing by-laws... I'll stick with veterans and since I am the incorporater, that would be my choice."
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