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Have Arrogant / Stubborn LMT's Created the Market for Massage Franchises?
First off let me say that I honestly don't personally care what any other Therapist's charge, nor do I concern myself w/ how well or how much business someone else is generating.
I've been in Healthcare now for over 17yrs, and my view towards things tend to be a little different from the avg professional. I believe that any and all therapy no matter the modality should be available to everyone.
I've seen and heard from other LMT's over time that these Massage Franchises are hurting the profession, either by their reduced rates which arent' actually reduced at all, or by the volume of business they do on a daily basis.
I've often wondered when I travel to more rural areas why their local LMT's charge the National Avg w/ regards to basic rates, aren't things in more run down, poorer regions usually cheaper than lets say in the big cities?!
I relocated to a region a few years ago and got hammered by local LMT's for undercutting the local market, well as I told many of them what I charge is no one elses business, I was constantly referred to as the Massage Envy of my region. So I moved again a few months ago to a larger city and it's littered w/ those Massage Envy's so I took a job based on my curiosity to see what all the hub bub was about, and what their Therapists were like.
Folks there is a place and enough business for all of us to charge what ever it is we feel our time is worth.
These Massage Franchises simply came into being all beacuse IMHO, due to LMT"s not marketing themselves well, and not being available. We are in the "I want it and I want it now " era.
Fact is folks these franchises are no cheaper than the National avg, sure they have gimmicks to lure in the client, but it's the lack of availability and in ability to easily find a therapist that has allowed these franchises to flourish.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Relax & Rejuvenate on
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I don't have 7 years of education, but it does not take much more than an elementary school education to know that $45 as an employee is better than $30 - $37.50 as a contractor for doing the same massage.
If I am exploiting someone by paying 30% + more than you are paying for the same work, that would put you in the same category as Massag Envy.
Maybe before you go excoriating ME and their business practices, you take a look at your own -- at least they have the fortitude to take on the responsibility of having employees.
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Permalink Reply by Cassandra Cravens on
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I think if people would stop to think about it they know "'you get what you pay for". Seriously. no one goes to McDonald's expecting a 5 star meal. Perhaps I'm giving the general population too much credit- maybe its that lack of recognition that you get what you pay for that is the problem with the economy right now. I go through 2-3 pairs of shoes a year, but I buy them cheap.
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Permalink Reply by Gina A. Liccardo on
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Why don't you find out what you are talking about because you obviously have no clue. I don't have the time to break it down for you but go do some research about ME and what they pay their people and what they even charge for a massage before you come on here misinformed. ME charges 39.95 for an hour introductory massage not even $45 so what are you talking about do you even know? No you don't obviously. Go find out what is going on in the industry before you start spewing nonsense. The going payrate for an LMT in NYC is $35-$50/hr if you are hired by someone else. ME pays anywhere from 15-22/hr
Relax & Rejuvenate said:I don't have 7 years of education, but it does not take much more than an elementary school education to know that $45 as an employee is better than $30 - $37.50 as a contractor for doing the same massage.
If I am exploiting someone by paying 30% + more than you are paying for the same work, that would put you in the same category as Massag Envy.
Maybe before you go excoriating ME and their business practices, you take a look at your own -- at least they have the fortitude to take on the responsibility of having employees.
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Why are you supporting and defending ME, a franchise that exploits massage therapists and underpays them and trying to imply someone that pays therapists well, such as myself, is on the same level as a business like ME? Why because you don't have a leg to stand on for defending unjust practices. Anyone that is going to defend a franchise that underpays and exploits their workers is unethical period.
Relax & Rejuvenate said:I don't have 7 years of education, but it does not take much more than an elementary school education to know that $45 as an employee is better than $30 - $37.50 as a contractor for doing the same massage.
If I am exploiting someone by paying 30% + more than you are paying for the same work, that would put you in the same category as Massag Envy.
Maybe before you go excoriating ME and their business practices, you take a look at your own -- at least they have the fortitude to take on the responsibility of having employees.
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Permalink Reply by Therese Schwartz on
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OK Gina, I've been sitting back and reading this exchange (at times wishing I had some popcorn) but now it's time to say something. I admire what you did for people after Sandy. You made a difference to people, and to yourself. You should be proud of that.
Having said that, you have actually read and understood nothing of what R&R has posted. You haven't paid attention at all - it's like your vitriol toward ME has caused you to totally ignore anything anyone has to say.
IF you had read his posts properly, you would know that he is exactly the kind of employer that YOU want for massage therapists. Everything you claim you want, he offers, and then some.
The $45 you are talking about in your second to last post is what he pays his massage therapists per massage. Plus they get to keep their tips virtually untaxed, plus they get all kinds of benefits just like employees at other types of businesses. You have completely and entirely missed the point(s) in every single one of his posts.
Why are you so upset at ME anyway? That's the real issue - in this country people are allowed to start businesses and the ones that are successful are run by people who can manage a business and also know how to give consumers what they want. Why do you feel so threatened by them?
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First off, R&R never stated until the last post what his payrate was; this is a person who sees nothing wrong with a corporate franchise that is underpaying a licensed professional.
I am not threatened by ME; I have been effected by this directly and that is why I have a certain feeling about them and their business practices because I see it first hand. From what I understand from your posts, you haven't been directly affected, therefore you may not have this awareness.
With re: to R&R, I don't understand why someone would defend a company that exploits therapists especially if you are an owner of a company that employes them. Just as people are free to start businesses; people who work at these places have a right to call them out on underpaying and taking advantage of the professionals in this industry. Perhaps you failed to read the fact that there is no decent paying jobs in areas that are saturated with these franchises forcing people like myself to travel further away to find a decent paying job and some to actually end up working longer hours for them because they can't travel to a further workplace.
I think if you had been directly effected by a franchise you might have a different opinion and a clearer picture of the reality of the situation. I don't have any respect for business owners, like R&R, who think just because business is business there are no boundaries and ethics just fly out the window.
If you can't understand that, then I don't know what to tell you but that's where my responses are coming from...R&R will do the typical throw out the numbers and now he finally says he pays his therapists $45; that is well and good and all but I do not respect that he thinks it is ok to underpay therapists and that is what I am responding to.
As far as Sandy goes, I don't know why you've even mentioned that. It's off the topic and you don't have to buffer your point just because you have a different point of view. I'm from NY you can just say what you mean.
I have and I am doing something about it, hence the thread. You and R&R dont have to agree but you also don't have to call someone an "ass" like R&R did or imply that one feels "threatened" because they don't support someone's view.
I find it interesting that these corporations are all about the bottom line but when the professional says what about my bottomline then they are being inappropriate, they feel threatened or are arrogant.
Last time I checked in this country people are allowed to speak up against businesses with unethical practices; ME is one of them. That is what I am doing.
My hope is that this thread draws more people to it who are in alignment with the topic and less that really haven't been effected by it who are looking for a good fight to enjoy over their popcorn because unfortunately if you haven't been effected directly most like you won't get it and it is a very serious issue in our industry.
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didn't realize which thread I was on but if anyone agrees with my point of view and has been negatively effected by the franchise, would be interested in hearing about it: http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/have-you-been-nega...
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LOL - yeah, forgot that I could just say what I needed to! Good point. I was trying to buffer my comments - have been taught to say something positive in every situation. Not necessary when dealing with people who are OK with being direct. I actually like that better.
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Me too!
Think of all the back and forth posts that could have been avoided if R&R just admitted up front that he pays his therapists a good pay rate of $45/hr but still thinks businesses like ME can pay what they choose,like most on the other side of the coin did. Case in point you, but I guess people with a business background are too used to hiding what's really going on, even if it's a good thing!
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Permalink Reply by Maryshka on
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That may or may not be true if a client is new to massage. Someone new (i.e. novice) to massage is happy to get anything a massage therapist gives them for the novice doesn't know any better but the massage therapist does, and doing a mediocre massage goes against our grain of providing a valuable service.
Overwork and poor pay has a terrible trickle down effect, lowers morale, and affects employee performance. Any employer of impeccable reputation knows that. The all-for-me (employer) and less-for-you (employee/MT) business model does nothing to make new grads exceptional massage therapists, and it's not a win-win mentality. Depends on what side of the fence you're on... such a business model is the worst example of capitalism...
Cassandra Cravens said:I think if people would stop to think about it they know "'you get what you pay for". Seriously. no one goes to McDonald's expecting a 5 star meal. Perhaps I'm giving the general population too much credit- maybe its that lack of recognition that you get what you pay for that is the problem with the economy right now. I go through 2-3 pairs of shoes a year, but I buy them cheap.
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Great point Maryshka. I was very lucky. I had a mentor in school who prepared me and taught me about my worth but many don't especially nowadays when the franchises are in bed with the schools. Novices end up being the perfect target for these type of places.
Maryshka said:That may or may not be true if a client is new to massage. Someone new (i.e. novice) to massage is happy to get anything a massage therapist gives them for the novice doesn't know any better but the massage therapist does, and doing a mediocre massage goes against our grain of providing a valuable service.
Overwork and poor pay has a terrible trickle down effect, lowers morale, and affects employee performance. Any employer of impeccable reputation knows that. The all-for-me (employer) and less-for-you (employee/MT) business model does nothing to make new grads exceptional massage therapists, and it's not a win-win mentality. Depends on what side of the fence you're on... such a business model is the worst example of capitalism...
Cassandra Cravens said:I think if people would stop to think about it they know "'you get what you pay for". Seriously. no one goes to McDonald's expecting a 5 star meal. Perhaps I'm giving the general population too much credit- maybe its that lack of recognition that you get what you pay for that is the problem with the economy right now. I go through 2-3 pairs of shoes a year, but I buy them cheap.
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Einstein said it best... What's the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
If franchises are gouging the MT pay rates, the potential need may arise for MTs to struggle to make ends meet, may need 2 or 3 jobs to carry COL/inflation, which keeps them away from their children or aging parents at home, children with less/little guidance/oversight, requiring government assistance, raising the country's deficit cuz the former tax base is not what it used to be... doing the same thing as before expecting different results... going backward instead of forward for many... it's a matter of time before the high-end companies feel the impact to their bottom line...
An MBA will never understand an hourly worker environment... they are not wired that way...
Gina A. Liccardo said:What exactly is so brilliant about doing what every corporate model has done for the past century? Undercut the pay of the worker, decreased the value of a service, offer substandard service for a low price and then claim to be giving someone more than they actually are by exploiting a licensed professional and duping the public. Am I supposed to believe that you put down 500k to give LMTs a job? You're full of it. Please save your 40 acres and a mule speech for the naive not the educated. I'm open to hearing ideas but if you are going to throw some out there try and be a little more authentic and original. I'm sorry but the corporate franchise can't be compared to Albert Einstein nor any of your comments.
btw now who is side stepping the question, you never answered my question, ARE YOU A LICENSED MASSAGE THERAPIST?
Relax & Rejuvenate said:This is such brilliant thinking!
Einstein was a clerk in a patent office, but it did not stop him from expressing his views on physics -- by your thinking he just should have kept his ideas to himself.
I love how people who think the world of "embracing diversity" are loathe to embrace any diversity of thought!
Gina A. Liccardo said:I wonder if you are even a licensed massage therapist. ARE YOU A MASSAGE THERAPIST? If you aren't then, you shouldn't comment here because you aren't qualified since you don't know what it's like to do the work.
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