massage and bodywork professionals
a community of practitioners
Massage Should Not Be Licensed!
How does this subject make you feel?
Your schooling, training and everything is for not. That's what some on this site are touting as a reason to stop the professions progress thus far with the BOK. They continue to try and tie prostitution and massage together as the reason for licensing. It is not because we wish to enter the healthfield.
Read for yourself at http://www.massageprofessionals.com/group/bodyofknowledge/forum/top...
Instead of working with the leaders of this profession they want to create an entire new bureaucracy . It's your profession. How do you feel?
The following stories should give you a clearer picture of our massage landscape and how those resisting licensure are hurting the profession.
Your schooling, training and everything is for not. That's what some on this site are touting as a reason to stop the professions progress thus far with the BOK. They continue to try and tie prostitution and massage together as the reason for licensing. It is not because we wish to enter the healthfield.
Read for yourself at http://www.massageprofessionals.com/group/bodyofknowledge/forum/top...
Instead of working with the leaders of this profession they want to create an entire new bureaucracy . It's your profession. How do you feel?
The following stories should give you a clearer picture of our massage landscape and how those resisting licensure are hurting the profession.
Views: 771
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mike Hinkle on
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Hi Howard,
We are going to organize this profession. Licensing does not hurt us at all. It has made the public aware of the fact that there are legitimate, educated therapists doing the work as well and they can find us.
So far as PT's. Yes they are even more organized and do contribute more financially to their efforts with legislation. We need to head in this direction as even you have said, they have more influence. I do not believe if we go away from this idea, we will have influence, actually, we will have even less. I agree a lot of the money is being paid to lobbyists on behalf of our profession is a waste, they do little to nothing for us. I would like to see the money rerouted towards research. Part of why PT's are ahead of us is they have put a lot more into research. But we are improving.
Be concerned and stay informed. We are not PT's. I see a lot of them joining our ranks. This profession is going to organize and it is time.
Howard Ross Nemerov said:Mike: As a rehab professional with 20 years in the business, I can aver that the BOK project concerns me greatly. The draft contains so many "basic" requirements that one might as well just attend PT college and be done with it. My greatest concern is that if we try to compete with PTs we will lose in the market.
For one thing, they have more political influence and contribute far more money to federal election campaigns than massage and bodywork professionals. (If anybody thinks this is irrelevant, spend some time at Open Secrets and then look at which legislation gets passed, and you will see a positive correlation between campaign contributions and congressional support for pet legislation. And they try to infer that WE are prostitutes?)
For another, if we try to become Me Too Physical Therapists, we lose our own basis for existing as a free-standing profession. I have successful professional associations with PTs, and we respect our scopes of practice. A clearer differentiation between those scopes actually improves our relations. Many of the BOK “basics” are a dangerous waste of time.
Licensing, particularly national licensing, will do us far more harm than good…except for those who wangle a new job as grand pubas in the new bureaucracy that the rest of us will pay for through licensing fees. These schemes, over time, become exclusionary rather than inclusive. History teaches that power corrupts, but new bureaucracies always start out with a “good” reason: protect public safety, for the children, etc. Unfortunately, it ends with the wealthy and powerful few ruling over the not-so-fortunate many.
I am interested in writing about this at my national Neuromuscular Therapy Examiner column. Anybody who wants to weigh in, please contact me.
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Permalink Reply by Brooke Flinn on
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I feel massage should be licensed. We should be held to a higher standard of education if we want to claim to be part of the healthcare industry. I'm not sure how it is in other states, but I know here in Ohio I can point to my license and say "Hey the same state medical board that gave you your license gave me mine!" when they try to tell me how to do my job. We should want to hold ourself to higher licensing standards, not to seperate ourselves from what is in most states an illegal profession, but so that we might be able to make our collective voice a little stronger in the health care industry.
I could rant on and give other reasons I believe we should require licensing...but I gotta get to work.
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Thank you Brooke!
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Permalink Reply by Julie Onofrio on
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I think I am missing something... what new bureaucracy do you think they are trying to create? It looks to me that they are trying to get the massage profession out of bureaucracy.
They are actually right in someways that licensing is not needed because there is little proof of harm in the profession. Keith Grant talked about this in his white paper on Issues in Massage Govenance a few years back.
The other thing is that will licensing help us to enter the health field? If you mean by getting into the health field being able to bill insurance companies - it doesn't take licensing necessarily but having an insurance commissioner who supports massage.
Here in WA that is how we got to be contracted providers - because of the ins. commissioner having a personal positive experience with massage and then making it into a law that ins. comp. have to cover it. We of course are licensed here but I am not sure really how much that influenced her decision at the time. It probably was a factor in some way.
The question really is what will help us to enter the health care field and then even before that -do we want to enter it or what is meant by entering it? I for one saw my profits drop by working with insurance companies and I had to work more to make the same. That is why I am getting out of it and moving back to a cash business. There are other aspects besides insurance to I know like just being respected and not equated with prostitutes and being known as a way to help people with things like fibromyalgia, carpal tunnel, sprains, strains and pain.
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Hi Julie,
You missed it so here it is: In the absence of probable irreparable harm, numerous regulatory alternatives to licensing should be considered. These include the posting of a bond to ensure a fund to compensate injured consumers, a certification program which has the effect of disclosing information to consumers about the qualifications of a practitioner and protects the use of a title, a permit program, disclosure requirements, a rule of liability, straight statutory prohibitions on certain activities, tax incentives to encourage certain behaviors, antitrust litigation to restore the normally-functioning marketplace, etc.
This is an entire new format that licensing states would have to accept and adopt. It won't happen. Those trying to stop the BOK are touting this theory.
Whether to enter the healthfield is a whole discussion all by itself. In Washington, you were lucky to get that connection made. Many states don't and many therapists struggle to even be recognized or get compensated through insurance companies. And I believe, state licensure had to be a factor. That said, I think Keith's premise was wrong. You are not being licensed because massage can cause harm. If that were the case your insurance would be through the roof.
There is an activity that is happening in a state. States are responsible for the safety of their population. Many feel being naked (almost) and under someone's hands should be a controlled event. That psychological harm may befall them as well. Licensing also allows the state to know who is performing these activities and where.
Most of the problems occured before regulation. And the state had no way to control it.
No matter which way this happens, some will not be happy. You wrote about a month ago, that you NOW think there should be more education after years of thinking less was fine. Whether people choose to do insurance or not is only one reason therapists want to enter the healthfield. Some will prosper, some won't.
Ca is a mess. Even their existing law is under sunset rule. We need standards and that is what we are working for.
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I think part of the problem is that there isn't any concrete research on the topic of what we really do need. I do now think that a 4 year program is needed but that is my opinion - what is really needed has never ever been really studied in depth over time.
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I have been saying this for days. Research is behind schedule. Still, we must go from here. Your suggestions?
Julie Onofrio said:I think part of the problem is that there isn't any concrete research on the topic of what we really do need. I do now think that a 4 year program is needed but that is my opinion - what is really needed has never ever been really studied in depth over time.
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Are you stating that research in the states is behind schedule or research every where is behind schedule? I am the first to admit that I do not read as much as I should so I do not really know where to go to find research papers on massage and body work other than some of the obvious magazines. I definitely agree with Julie. When I first started getting my massage training people were shocked that I did it in such a short amount of time. A friend of mine from Canada was almost sickened :) His sister is a massage therapist up there and she had to do a full four year degree. They seem to get much more into initial education in other countries for this...have said that I am not up on how all he other countries train new body workers I would have to do more reading before I could make a statement as to whether we are very lax compared to others countries or just a little on the light side.
Part of me feels that with more standardized education/licensing policies across the country therapists would not really have some of the same issues we have today. The prostitute stigma which I have yet to (thank god) to have to deal with in my own practice might become lessoned...optimal word is might. Yes we can bill some insurances right now. I really do not have the inclination to deal with insurance companies as of yet; however, with more education and better licensing policies we could be seen less as an offshoot or co-profession and become more main stream and more of a stand alone profession. Lets face it, a lot of people would not go to massage therapists if they hadn't first gone to a chiropractor or physical therapist who referred them to us. Many people do come in just for relaxation or stress manage and find that we are wonderful at pain management.
We know so much! We can do so much! In my dream world a doctor would tell a patient "go get a couple massages. If you do not start feeling better then we can look at perscriptions to help manage your pain." Is that likely to happen in my life time? I don't know. What I do know is that if I can help get some one off a drug that they should not be taking any way then I should be utilized by the medical world more often! I don't know how my ramblings went from more education and better licensing policies to how I wish the health care industry would change and start utilizing us more. Maybe it's because I think that if a doctor saw us more as equals he would be more willing to refer patients to us. If insurance companies new what we were capable of as far as preventive care then maybe more would be willing to pay for massages making it easier for people who could really use them to get them.
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Permalink Reply by Laura Allen on
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Mike, I'll spare insulting anyone by name on this public forum in regard to the comments on that link, but the next time we see each other, I promise to give you an earful!
I enjoyed getting my massage education and I don't object to being licensed. I'm also nationally certified. I don't resent spending the money for it, and I'd be getting the continuing education whether it was required or not. The clients in my clinic seem to be appreciative of the fact that we're all licensed and nationally certified. I don't think we'd be getting the number of doctor and dentist referrals that we enjoy if we weren't. We have the acceptance of the medical community because we are educated and licensed, and because we present ourselves as the professionals we are.
The Body of Knowledge project is a collaborative effort between our associations--the leaders of our profession. They chose the best and the brightest to work on it. It's been a long time in coming. And like most first efforts, it won't be perfect. But it is being created with the best of intentions from everyone involved. It's not going to make every therapist who reads it happy--and that's why they sent it out for comment! I don't know what people are whining about! They gave us a chance to make comments and I gave mine. I applaud the people who are working on it and the spirit in which it is being conducted.
I personally think prostitution should be legal. It's not like it's ever going away; and don't the police have more important things to deal with? Why do I care if someone who needs sex and doesn't have a willing soul to have it with goes out and pays for it? Is that harming me in any way? No, it is not. I personally would rather see the cops getting drunk drivers who might kill me off the road than worrying about someone paying for sex. Somebody get these people a board and let the states regulate THEM! Let them buy a privilege license and pay taxes like the rest of us. Then they could advertise themselves for what they really are, instead of masquerading as an MT. If somebody who wants a prostitute could look in the phone book and find one, they wouldn't be calling MTs.
They could have their own CE classes: "Safe Sex 101," Streetcorner Marketing," "Finding Your Inner Dominatrix," "Tantra for Everyone....." Gotcha on that one, didn't I!
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OK! I was with you up to the fourth paragraph, and yes you kinda stumped me there. It is legal in at least one state, in some counties. But someone else will have to write those Model Practice Act(s), Standards of Practice, Title Acts and Body of Knowledge!
That said, those whining will always whine. They have done it all over at internet sites, I'll share them with you later. All they do is repeat the same old spills, that have them in the dilemma they are in. They help contribute to it by avoiding licensure. They will say they are fine. Let them keep it. I think their legislature will sunset their present system, especially when the rest of the country organizes and that may be their fear. I am positive the other states, that have the same rights they do, will not turn their states into the problems that exist there. They are almost all from the same state. They did what they could, with what they have to deal with. But the whiners are always going to.
The whiners will come back and site this study and that. And why their way is better. But they only show part of the facts. We have teachers across the country saying students are not getting proper education. We have therapists saying teachers won't even get out of their chair to assist their students. No matter what method, including theirs, is used to teach these students, these teachers will stink at it. This is what happens when you lower standards, not increase them. This is what happens when you don't put the money back into qualified teachers.
Canada, which the whiners use to propagate their interests, is telling them to increase the amount of school hours to gain healthcare recognition. They only want to site the method being used to teach students, in Canada, thinking this is the "solve all". Many schools are not paying for quality instructors. I think these schools should be closed. I agree, standards for teachers needs to improve as well. And most teachers are therapists, so it will benefit, both ways.
They will continue to whine. And we will continue to set higher standards, that is what professionals do! Professionals are always looking to raise standards, so goals are met and exceeded. BC, Canada
http://www.massageprofessionals.com/group/bodyofknowledge?groupUrl=...
told us the other night, they voluntarily increased their hours over 1,000 hours more. Because they want to exceed the norm, the standard. They face the challenge headon, not try to skirt around it.
Don't let this mentoring type education fool you, they won't place an hour amount on it because they know it will take longer, much longer. And if the teacher doesn't like you? I'm sure you will get graded accurately, right! There is a reason we use the grading system we do. It is a check on the teacher as well. If the person answers the question correctly it is hard for the teacher to mark it wrong. With theirs, the student is at the mercy of the instructor. I am not against mentoring, I have helped many therapists.
We don't need to change the entire system of schools or teaching to set standards. I believe good teachers and schools, being held to the rules, will benefit us more at this time. If a school does not pay qualified teachers enough to keep them, close the school. Everyone I have talked to says there are too many now.
People need to read the links above and in this text. A whole new system will take a long time to teach, learn and see a marked improvement. It astounds me that since we still have professionals that went to massage school and they are the most talented in the profession today, yet todays students, in lesser schools, are suffering and the whiners can't figure it out. But get ready Laura cause they will be back and argue to the end.
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Massage Research is behind. Almost every aspect of the massage profession needs studied. What type of schooling is needed and best, length of time needed to assure a proper education, every modality and so on needs researched. It will take years. That said, we can't tread water till it is done and if it ever even will be.
There is an effort to enable therapists to have portability between states. One prerequisite is to have agreeing states have a set of standards so that they are all going by a single set of guidelines. That is it in a nutshell. That is what we want.
Some want to do away with licensure and think that will get us accepted by the healthcare industry. This same state has not been reviewing their schools (or new ones) and they have no mandatory CE criteria! Especially, after reading information, sent to the group from Canada, I could not disagree more. Standards need to grow not regress. I understand people in general, don't like rules. I know I don't. But I see the need to set one set of rules.
There are too many different rules out there. I got involved because I am sure this effort has the support to be successful and I felt therapists needed, just another therapist in there working for them. I am not a teacher, administrator or compelled by any association. I am here for the therapists!
Brooke Flinn said:Are you stating that research in the states is behind schedule or research every where is behind schedule? I am the first to admit that I do not read as much as I should so I do not really know where to go to find research papers on massage and body work other than some of the obvious magazines. I definitely agree with Julie. When I first started getting my massage training people were shocked that I did it in such a short amount of time. A friend of mine from Canada was almost sickened :) His sister is a massage therapist up there and she had to do a full four year degree. They seem to get much more into initial education in other countries for this...have said that I am not up on how all he other countries train new body workers I would have to do more reading before I could make a statement as to whether we are very lax compared to others countries or just a little on the light side.
Part of me feels that with more standardized education/licensing policies across the country therapists would not really have some of the same issues we have today. The prostitute stigma which I have yet to (thank god) to have to deal with in my own practice might become lessoned...optimal word is might. Yes we can bill some insurances right now. I really do not have the inclination to deal with insurance companies as of yet; however, with more education and better licensing policies we could be seen less as an offshoot or co-profession and become more main stream and more of a stand alone profession. Lets face it, a lot of people would not go to massage therapists if they hadn't first gone to a chiropractor or physical therapist who referred them to us. Many people do come in just for relaxation or stress manage and find that we are wonderful at pain management.
We know so much! We can do so much! In my dream world a doctor would tell a patient "go get a couple massages. If you do not start feeling better then we can look at perscriptions to help manage your pain." Is that likely to happen in my life time? I don't know. What I do know is that if I can help get some one off a drug that they should not be taking any way then I should be utilized by the medical world more often! I don't know how my ramblings went from more education and better licensing policies to how I wish the health care industry would change and start utilizing us more. Maybe it's because I think that if a doctor saw us more as equals he would be more willing to refer patients to us. If insurance companies new what we were capable of as far as preventive care then maybe more would be willing to pay for massages making it easier for people who could really use them to get them.
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Permalink Reply by Lisa on
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i don't think it matters if it's a license OR a certification, as long as it's accepted across the states utilizing the same educational standards and testing. to have licensing JUST for the sake of licensing is silly to me. it's just more bureaucracy. it's another way for the state to make money and nothing more. i'd be quite happy with just certification as long as everyone was equal so one could work anywhere.
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