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Client rights
Out of curiosity, for those of you in an IC situation--either employer or employee--who retains client rights? That is, have you ever dealt with a contract stipulating who the client "belongs" to?
After leaving an establishment, what is your experience with previous ICs allowed to solicit business from repeat clients they may have gained there? Any period of time where they are not allowed to provide services for those clients (if so, how long)?
What about private practice versus moving to another group establishment? What about states with lax non-compete laws (like Colorado)?
How about a small town, where social and professional circles frequently overlap?
After leaving an establishment, what is your experience with previous ICs allowed to solicit business from repeat clients they may have gained there? Any period of time where they are not allowed to provide services for those clients (if so, how long)?
What about private practice versus moving to another group establishment? What about states with lax non-compete laws (like Colorado)?
How about a small town, where social and professional circles frequently overlap?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Laura Allen on
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Erica,
According to Dale Atkinson, who is the president of CLEAR, and an attorney who has built his practice around serving boards and associations, non-compete laws rarely stand up, especially for someone low on the totem pole like a massage therapist.
Non-compete agreements usually don't hold up for three reasons: a) the amount of time restricted is too long b) the geographical restriction is too strict and c) there is too much of a restriction on the work a person may perform.
IF you have been someone's business partner, and had access to proprietary company secrets, then it's more likely to be enforced in a court of law. He spoke at our Federation of State Massage Therapy Boards meeting in Sept (he is their atty as well) and that subject came up. He said anyone presented with a non-compete can go right ahead and sign it to make the boss feel better, if they so desire, but basically, they are rarely enforced by the courts unless it is as I said above.
Since I employ an office full of ICS, I'll say this: if any of my staff leaves (I have NO staff turnover, and a long list of people hoping to work here), I am sure that some of their clients might follow. I will not begrudge them that, because one monkey don't stop no show, as the old saying goes. My clinic is not dependent on one person's abilities. ALSO, since I file a huge amount of insurance, and most solo therapists don't want to deal with that, the insurance clients would probably stay with us, even if their favorite therapist left, unless they got on the insurance bandwagon.
When I opened my business six years ago, I did not call up old clients and solicit them. What I did do was place a number of ads that said "Laura Allen, formerly of _______________, is now in practice at THERA-SSAGE in Rutherfordton."
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Permalink Reply by Mike Hinkle on
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I agree with Dale. I don't know of anyone that has won in court on this non-compete issue in service related businesses. There may be some out there that have, but it seems to hurt both parties and the profession more than was gained. When I had my place in FL, I felt that sure I did the advertising, but I would have done that anyways for all the therapists. I felt that if the therapists had won the clients over, great. If they left with them great. Few kept travelling across town and most came back on their own to the center. There will always be these small issues, let them stay that way.
"Most of the mountains, we have to climb, we create ourselves!"
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Permalink Reply by Gloria Coppola on
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I agree with all!
Mike Hinkle said:I agree with Dale. I don't know of anyone that has won in court on this non-compete issue in service related businesses. There may be some out there that have, but it seems to hurt both parties and the profession more than was gained. When I had my place in FL, I felt that sure I did the advertising, but I would have done that anyways for all the therapists. I felt that if the therapists had won the clients over, great. If they left with them great. Few kept travelling across town and most came back on their own to the center. There will always be these small issues, let them stay that way.
"Most of the mountains, we have to climb, we create ourselves!"
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Permalink Reply by Erica Olson on
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Re: non-competes, I know that in Colorado, there's really only four instances in which they can be readily enforced:
- as part of any contract for the purchase and sale of a business or its assets
- contract for the protection of trade secrets (publicly-accessible names and address are NOT considered trade secrets)
- contractual provision providing for recovery of the expense of educating and training an employee who has served an employer for a period of less than two years
- executive and management personnel and officers and employees who constitute professional staff to executive and management personnel (ie, top-level managers)
Your attitude about clients following therapists is one that I, personally, resound with--clients are people, not property, and our goal is to serve our clients' needs, isn't it? Besides, as one brassy client of mine put it, "How is anyone going to tell me I can't see whomever I damn well want to? I'd like to see them try."
I will also say that I really like the way you handled setting up your own practice, and the announcement you made in the paper. That seems like a very neutral way to handle it.
Laura Allen said:Erica,
According to Dale Atkinson, who is the president of CLEAR, and an attorney who has built his practice around serving boards and associations, non-compete laws rarely stand up, especially for someone low on the totem pole like a massage therapist.
Since I employ an office full of ICS, I'll say this: if any of my staff leaves . . . I am sure that some of their clients might follow. I will not begrudge them that, because one monkey don't stop no show, as the old saying goes.
When I opened my business six years ago, I did not call up old clients and solicit them. What I did do was place a number of ads that said "Laura Allen, formerly of _______________, is now in practice at THERA-SSAGE in Rutherfordton."
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Laura--
When you placed your ad, did you get permission from your previous employer to use their name in your ad? Or notify them in any way? I've placed just such an ad in the paper and sent out postcards via a purchased mailing list; today, I got an unhappy call from my previous employer stating that all advertising having to do with them needed to be cleared by her first. Apparently, she'd received 3-4 phone calls from people asking if the spa had changed their name (to my business name).
I hadn't talked to my previous employer--getting her permission/acknowledgment hadn't even crossed my mind, as I wasn't advertising anything about her business except that I was no longer there. Am I in the wrong here?
Laura Allen said:When I opened my business six years ago, I did not call up old clients and solicit them. What I did do was place a number of ads that said "Laura Allen, formerly of _______________, is now in practice at THERA-SSAGE in Rutherfordton."
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