Massage Survey- Personal Interview- Contact Me

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Gloria Coppola on November 7, 2009 at 12:05pm

I would like to personally address some of the few comments I'm receiving on the survey to those that
have made some derogatory and sarcastic comments directed at these questions or me personally.

Please understand I am attempting to help this industry. To raise the standards and stop the
exploitation of massage therapists. I am not asking for my personal curiosity. I want to see
what is happening nationally.

If the questions weren't worded perfectly, I apologize.

If you do not want to respond to any specific question, nothing requires you to do so.

If you want to make sarcastic remarks how do you expect anyone to try and speak out and be your voice
to make positive changes in our industry!

To compile this information and do personal interviews takes a lot of my personal time. I am also paying out of my pocket for this survey, no donations or sponsors.

So why would you think that I am being self serving in any way?

It saddens me to see how some individuals in this profession can be so hurtful, angry and sarcastic to a community that is trying to help you all!

I am doing my best. What are you doing?

I have been in this industry for almost 25 years. I have been apart of the many positive changes. I have helped massage therapists succeed and strive with long careers. I offer assistance and support to any that have asked.

Success doesn't happen through negativity, it happens as a result of positive support.

To all of you, the majority, that have made personal comments to thank me and stated you enjoyed the survey or provided some interesting and positive, helpful comments. Thank you ALL! I am truly hoping to compile an interesting and informative article that addresses our needs. While I can't change it all, I can be your voice.

Much gratitude for your cooperation.
Gloria

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Carl W. Brown on November 7, 2009 at 5:01pm

Unless I am misunderstanding you requiring an MT to apply knowledge of pathologies and pharmacology sounds like it is way out of our scope of practice. Applying any training in that area depends on differential diagnosis and a far deeper understanding of medicine than we should practice. Incomplete training can be dangerous because the practitioner may not have the training to know when not to apply their limited knowledge.

Extending our scope of practice increases the responsibly not only to know when to apply the knowledge but not to miss things that our training should have caught.

I think a better approach to spa work is to teach it separately from therapeutic. People who want to do both can cross train. But if people do not do a lot of therapeutic work they lose the training. Clients generally don’t go to a spa for therapy. Mixing the two also creates confusion with the public. They are separate services and intermingling the two lessens the image of both.


Gloria Coppola said:

I just developed a curriculum for a new massage school in asheville, nc that actually has
a segment for Medical/therapeutic type techniques, pathologies, pharmacology etc. and another
segment for Spa modalities, which are also going to be approach for"more than relaxation", but also therapeutic and
provide all therapists an understanding of what Spa modalities can offer.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Gloria Coppola on November 7, 2009 at 6:44pm

Carl, thanks for your input

However, we as massage therapists do need to understand how a variety of common pathologies and pharmaceuticals are affected by our massage strokes, herbal supplements, body wraps, etc. that a client may be taking or receiving etc.
So, I beg to differ. It is not out of our scope of practice, it is within our responsibility to understand how this all works.

A great book written by Jean Wible "Pharmacology for massage therapy" is a great resource for all MT's. THere is a handy chart in there that explains how the variety of strokes we use affect the outcome of our techniques.

As for spa treatments, if one understands the true meaning of spa aka water therapies, one needs to understand as well the responsibility that goes along with that. For example how High Blood pressure might be affected if you put someone in a thermal pool of water, etc.

I have gone to spas across the world and in the US, for the most part our western world ,is not training spa staff adequately in their treatments. It has become a "fluff" and luxury when these ancient remedies were used for healing. I could go on, but the research is out there, if interested.

As a healthy individual when I was in my 30's I went to a spa to experience several treatments. After receiving a salt scrub, I was put into the hydrotherapy tub and left alone. Within minutes I felt myself becoming very faint and "slipping away". Fortunately, the MT happened to come back into the room as I was passing out. People take for granted that spa treatments are safe and they take for granted that young people may not have any adverse reactions. I beg to differ on that as well.

I feel the Massage student needs to understand all aspects of how the variety of treatments effect clients with different conditions. I don't think we should take it 'lightly'. As our industry grows and more people opt to try our therapies, the awareness level of the probable medications and conditions people have also needs to heighten.

I was taking a training at a spa about a year ago and was surprised and appauled that the instructor could not explain some common reasons "health wise" for the use of a vichy shower. She merely said "oh we only wash off the muds with it...ergo, a glorified shower". When I questioned her about certain medications that a client might be taking that can possibly create certain side effects from the hot water or the products being applied, she didn't know and again 'sluffed it off' as it's only spa treatments. This is ignorance in my opinion. This is what is being taught out there and it is dangerous.

The reason clients don't go to the spa for therapy as we think of "therapeutic", is because we haven't trained our staff appropriately that these treatments are 'therapy'.

I however have gone out of this country for specifically that reason. Spa is therapeutic! (The true essence of spa therapies).

So to clarify what I am saying, "Since the massage industry is growing and spas are popping up everywhere, we need to have our student MT's educated appropriately. Many people in this day, take prescribed medications. They need to know the interactions. Recently I had an MD in my Pharmacology/Pathology/Herbology, class who now teaches Bowen. He applauded the class and said "Every school should be teaching this"

When I asked him and several other MD colleagues of mine about my approach to teaching these topics and implementing such information they all agreed it is most beneficial. They even shared beneficial information with me, for example; how Statin drugs effect the muscle tissue and techniques will not be therapeutic no matter how hard you try due to the adverse effects of these drugs.

The two segments of that training are separate entities, but there will be crossover of information supported throughout so students repeatedly hear how different pathologies might be affected by different techniques."

So, I do my research on many levels before I make my decisions. If others have a different opinion, that is fine and we can all choose our schools accordingly. As a former school owner, I have listened to my students and their needs for over 20 years. I have always been for advancing their knowledge based on the industry and what we have researched and explored as common denominators essential for a student to know.

I am excited that so many new books have been made available for MT's, with valuable information we didn't have only 10 years ago.

So I am sorry if it was unclear how I was incorporating these into the curriculum and hope that this has resolved that issue. If you have any other questions, I would be more than happy to try to answer and explain.

Thanks again, Gloria

Carl W. Brown said:

Unless I am misunderstanding you requiring an MT to apply knowledge of pathologies and pharmacology sounds like it is way out of our scope of practice. Applying any training in that area depends on differential diagnosis and a far deeper understanding of medicine than we should practice. Incomplete training can be dangerous because the practitioner may not have the training to know when not to apply their limited knowledge.
Extending our scope of practice increases the responsibly not only to know when to apply the knowledge but not to miss things that our training should have caught. I think a better approach to spa work is to teach it separately from therapeutic. People who want to do both can cross train. But if people do not do a lot of therapeutic work they lose the training. Clients generally don’t go to a spa for therapy. Mixing the two also creates confusion with the public. They are separate services and intermingling the two lessens the image of both.


Gloria Coppola said:

I just developed a curriculum for a new massage school in asheville, nc that actually has
a segment for Medical/therapeutic type techniques, pathologies, pharmacology etc. and another
segment for Spa modalities, which are also going to be approach for"more than relaxation", but also therapeutic and
provide all therapists an understanding of what Spa modalities can offer.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Darcy Neibaur on November 7, 2009 at 8:32pm

Thank you Gloria. You owe no one any explanations. Thank you though. I personally appreciate all you are doing for me as a LMT. I know the results of this survey will help us all in the end. Hang in there.

Gloria Coppola said:

I would like to personally address some of the few comments I'm receiving on the survey to those that
have made some derogatory and sarcastic comments directed at these questions or me personally.

Please understand I am attempting to help this industry. To raise the standards and stop the
exploitation of massage therapists. I am not asking for my personal curiosity. I want to see
what is happening nationally.

If the questions weren't worded perfectly, I apologize.

If you do not want to respond to any specific question, nothing requires you to do so.

If you want to make sarcastic remarks how do you expect anyone to try and speak out and be your voice
to make positive changes in our industry!

To compile this information and do personal interviews takes a lot of my personal time. I am also paying out of my pocket for this survey, no donations or sponsors.

So why would you think that I am being self serving in any way?

It saddens me to see how some individuals in this profession can be so hurtful, angry and sarcastic to a community that is trying to help you all!

I am doing my best. What are you doing?

I have been in this industry for almost 25 years. I have been apart of the many positive changes. I have helped massage therapists succeed and strive with long careers. I offer assistance and support to any that have asked.

Success doesn't happen through negativity, it happens as a result of positive support.

To all of you, the majority, that have made personal comments to thank me and stated you enjoyed the survey or provided some interesting and positive, helpful comments. Thank you ALL! I am truly hoping to compile an interesting and informative article that addresses our needs. While I can't change it all, I can be your voice.

Much gratitude for your cooperation.
Gloria

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Gloria Coppola on November 7, 2009 at 11:12pm

Today's Update!


The count is 306 !

For all of you asking about marketing tips!

The response to the most successful marketing tip is WORD OF MOUTH @ 86%
So, that means you need to get out there, meet people, talk to them, tell your clients to tell others, give a great massage and they will tell others!!


Next, do you feel your massage school prepared you well?
53% said yes and many comments included :
Wishing there was more business and marketing preparation

Spa Employees responded to the best thing about working at a spa facility?
1. 48% said ambience
2. Many of the comments over 30%: said "nothing". What spa uses dirty sheets? Shame on you!
Spa owners what is going on?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Darcy Neibaur on November 7, 2009 at 11:22pm

Where I work we use National Linen Services. They come Twice a week on Tuesdays and Fridays. We receive nice clean and wrinkle free sheets. Scarely about dirty sheets.

Gloria Coppola said:

Today's Update!


The count is 306 !

For all of you asking about marketing tips!

The response to the most successful marketing tip is WORD OF MOUTH @ 86%
So, that means you need to get out there, meet people, talk to them, tell your clients to tell others, give a great massage and they will tell others!!


Next, do you feel your massage school prepared you well?
53% said yes and many comments included :
Wishing there was more business and marketing preparation

Spa Employees responded to the best thing about working at a spa facility?
1. 48% said ambience
2. Many of the comments over 30%: said "nothing". What spa uses dirty sheets? Shame on you!
Spa owners what is going on?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Gloria Coppola on November 7, 2009 at 11:37pm

Darcy,
It is NOT the first time I have heard a MT tell me about dirty and re-used sheets. Disgusting! They should report them to the dept. of health.

Linen Services work well and aren't as expensive as some people think. Worth it too, since it frees up your time if you are in private practice and you can eliminate the expense of soap, electricity and water. :)

Darcy Neibaur BS LMT NCTMB said:

Where I work we use National Linen Services. They come Twice a week on Tuesdays and Fridays. We receive nice clean and wrinkle free sheets. Scarely about dirty sheets.

Gloria Coppola said:

Today's Update!


The count is 306 !

For all of you asking about marketing tips!

The response to the most successful marketing tip is WORD OF MOUTH @ 86%
So, that means you need to get out there, meet people, talk to them, tell your clients to tell others, give a great massage and they will tell others!!


Next, do you feel your massage school prepared you well?
53% said yes and many comments included :
Wishing there was more business and marketing preparation

Spa Employees responded to the best thing about working at a spa facility?
1. 48% said ambience
2. Many of the comments over 30%: said "nothing". What spa uses dirty sheets? Shame on you!
Spa owners what is going on?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Gloria Coppola on November 8, 2009 at 2:26pm

Update @ 3pm Sunday

325 Participants!

Top %'s as follows; ( a sampling of the most common responses and highest percentages so far)

Preferred technique to perform : 54% Deep Tissue
Average years in practice participating in the survey: 1-5 leading at 33% followed by
5- 10 years in practice @ 25%

Francise Employees - Not happy for the most part
We need participation from those employed at franchises

Location of Participants:
SE Leads with 36%
Mid West @ 20%
North East @ 19%

Where is everyone else in the west???

Most people look for massage resources through the Internet = 92%

Marketing is still the most challenging for employers @ 56%

69% of the participants are in private practice.
24% spa

How many hours do people feel massage school should be?
37% = 500 to700
36% = 700-1000
Less than 3% feel there should be no set standards


How would you improve upon your career? Some responses =
1. more training in all areas!
2. marketing skills need big improvement
3. Really would like my own office
4. Find other like minded therapists to work in group homes, whom I felt confident to give referrals.

5. I would like to take more continuting education. I really havent taken much because every job I have had I had many hours of training on spa treatments. Now since I am on my own I want to learn a lot more.

6. Clone myself! lol

If you work in a spa setting what benefits do you receive?
1. Most comments (almost 50%) = " None" :(
2. 42 % Flexible schedule
3. 16 % get continuing education

What is the best thing about working at a spa?
Comment: Keeps me off the unemployment line!!

How many years do you feel people should have under their belt before they teach massage?
47% feel 3-5 years of massage experience.
Comments:
1. More...many, many more. Not an MD, not a PT, but an experienced well rounded educated Massage Therapist.
2. It's not so much their massage experience as it is their teaching ability that concerns me.
3.I think our most experienced practitioners should be teaching. After all, an anatomist can teach anatomy; a physiologist can teach physiology; but only a truly experienced and seasoned practitioner can thoroughly teach masasge theory and techniques.


Do you feel potential instructors should take a teacher training?
67% = YES
Comments:
1.Unless they have prior teaching experience...private or public...business or school
2. I'm a certified educator, but some people don't really understand how people learn. It depends on what is taught in the program.
3.I think massage educators should be "educated" like teachers in other schools. I do not think they need a college degree in education, but a teaching "certificate" would be more than appropriate.
4.it depends...some people don't need it



Participant Personal Comments:

Your voice is asking or telling us:


1. Massage franchise owners should have working knowledge about massage therapy and should be tuned in to creating progressively improved conditions for both the franchise and the therapists and not focused so highly on turning a quick profit. There should be a limit on the number of franchises a particular owner can acquire in one city.

2.I have been very disappointed with CE providers who refuse to provided accessible accomodations for MTs with deafness and hearing loss. Classes, workshops, conferences, even videos / DVDs all inaccessible to those of us with hearing problems. The ADA for people with disabilities has been in effect since 1990's. But all doors accept for local community colleges are closed to us. Our state does not even bother to require that CE providers are in compliance with the ADA. This needs to be changed! There is a lot more I would like to learn, but I don't have access.

3. My peeve is the outrageous fees for CE credits, then no one takes into consideration of travel expenses. Most of the time the ones presenting usually gets free hotel & travel expenses, some don't but most do. I have worked in several places over the pst few yrs. so my opening my own business was more like going from scratch as the saying goes. The place I use to work is 30 miles away people won't drive that far, I don't care how good you are.

4. I had the worst instructor situation ever. It was a nightmare. He had zero teaching experience and he ultimately gave up even trying. I had to study on my own so that I would have a chance in hell of passing national certification. I did it and have managed to become a good therapist by learning from other therapists and trusting my own instincts. I'm proud of myself but so ashamed by the sad state of the education that I paid for.

5.I would like to see more articles, in the massage publications, involving male practitioners and what they do to or have been doing to be successful, instead of all women

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Mike Hinkle on November 8, 2009 at 2:48pm

HI Gloria,

Thank you for all this great information. I am glad you are continuing this effort. Believe me, the majority of us are solidly behind your efforts and are here if you need us!

Gloria Coppola said:

Update @ 3pm Sunday

325 Participants!

Top %'s as follows; ( a sampling of the most common responses and highest percentages so far)

Preferred technique to perform : 54% Deep Tissue
Average years in practice participating in the survey: 1-5 leading at 33% followed by
5- 10 years in practice @ 25%

Francise Employees - Not happy for the most part
We need participation from those employed at franchises

Location of Participants:
SE Leads with 36%
Mid West @ 20%
North East @ 19%

Where is everyone else in the west???

Most people look for massage resources through the Internet = 92%

Marketing is still the most challenging for employers @ 56%

69% of the participants are in private practice.
24% spa

How many hours do people feel massage school should be?
37% = 500 to700
36% = 700-1000
Less than 3% feel there should be no set standards


How would you improve upon your career? Some responses =
1. more training in all areas!
2. marketing skills need big improvement
3. Really would like my own office
4. Find other like minded therapists to work in group homes, whom I felt confident to give referrals.

5. I would like to take more continuting education. I really havent taken much because every job I have had I had many hours of training on spa treatments. Now since I am on my own I want to learn a lot more.

6. Clone myself! lol

If you work in a spa setting what benefits do you receive?
1. Most comments (almost 50%) = " None" :(
2. 42 % Flexible schedule
3. 16 % get continuing education

What is the best thing about working at a spa?
Comment: Keeps me off the unemployment line!!

How many years do you feel people should have under their belt before they teach massage?
47% feel 3-5 years of massage experience.
Comments:
1. More...many, many more. Not an MD, not a PT, but an experienced well rounded educated Massage Therapist.
2. It's not so much their massage experience as it is their teaching ability that concerns me.
3.I think our most experienced practitioners should be teaching. After all, an anatomist can teach anatomy; a physiologist can teach physiology; but only a truly experienced and seasoned practitioner can thoroughly teach masasge theory and techniques.


Do you feel potential instructors should take a teacher training?
67% = YES
Comments:
1.Unless they have prior teaching experience...private or public...business or school
2. I'm a certified educator, but some people don't really understand how people learn. It depends on what is taught in the program.
3.I think massage educators should be "educated" like teachers in other schools. I do not think they need a college degree in education, but a teaching "certificate" would be more than appropriate.
4.it depends...some people don't need it



Participant Personal Comments:

Your voice is asking or telling us:


1. Massage franchise owners should have working knowledge about massage therapy and should be tuned in to creating progressively improved conditions for both the franchise and the therapists and not focused so highly on turning a quick profit. There should be a limit on the number of franchises a particular owner can acquire in one city.

2.I have been very disappointed with CE providers who refuse to provided accessible accomodations for MTs with deafness and hearing loss. Classes, workshops, conferences, even videos / DVDs all inaccessible to those of us with hearing problems. The ADA for people with disabilities has been in effect since 1990's. But all doors accept for local community colleges are closed to us. Our state does not even bother to require that CE providers are in compliance with the ADA. This needs to be changed! There is a lot more I would like to learn, but I don't have access.

3. My peeve is the outrageous fees for CE credits, then no one takes into consideration of travel expenses. Most of the time the ones presenting usually gets free hotel & travel expenses, some don't but most do. I have worked in several places over the pst few yrs. so my opening my own business was more like going from scratch as the saying goes. The place I use to work is 30 miles away people won't drive that far, I don't care how good you are.

4. I had the worst instructor situation ever. It was a nightmare. He had zero teaching experience and he ultimately gave up even trying. I had to study on my own so that I would have a chance in hell of passing national certification. I did it and have managed to become a good therapist by learning from other therapists and trusting my own instincts. I'm proud of myself but so ashamed by the sad state of the education that I paid for.

5.I would like to see more articles, in the massage publications, involving male practitioners and what they do to or have been doing to be successful, instead of all women

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Carl W. Brown on November 8, 2009 at 6:25pm

Gloria, I have a very different concept of the meaning of pharmacology. I think of dosing, drug alternatives, drug interactions. I agree that you need to look at the drugs a person is taking to see it the person is being treated for something or taking drugs that may cause conditions that contraindicate massage or require special precautions.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Gloria Coppola on November 8, 2009 at 7:53pm

Glad we got this cleared up! Thanks again!

Carl W. Brown said:

Gloria, I have a very different concept of the meaning of pharmacology. I think of dosing, drug alternatives, drug interactions. I agree that you need to look at the drugs a person is taking to see it the person is being treated for something or taking drugs that may cause conditions that contraindicate massage or require special precautions.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Gloria Coppola on November 9, 2009 at 10:18am

In one week we have had 362 individuals in the industry give their opinions on the massage career survey! Thank you all!

If everyone would tell 2 more people we will be at our target!

Monday a.m. updates:

The females still have the majority at at 79%.

Here are some comments coming in:

1. I think it goes without saying that the feeling of being able to help people get rid of their pain is very rewarding. What I really love is that I am in charge of my life, I am in charge of my schedule, I do not have to deal with corp. politics or drama, and I encouraged (by the profession) to have strong boundaries which are never considered selfish.

2. For people to see this work as healthcare and not just a treat for themselves. To have employers understand that massage does not have to be just relaxation. Too many chiro's, et al, view massage as a means to get their clients relaxed for *their* work...to see that my work (NMT, trigger pt therapy, MFR, etc) should be used to compliment and supplement their work.

3. From Spa Question: I would say steady work, but that was not the case always. I've *NEVER* had management support, and even less corporate support. They offered discount services, but I don't care about skin treatments or mani/pedi. I can meet people from various places working privately or ina clicnical setting.

4. Have you every worked for a franchise?No, but I'm looking into massage envy as a side job.

I interviewed for one and got the job; I chose not to take it due to the low wages ($10/MA.)

The locations I worked for all had nice settings. But, that is the only constant among them.

5.What else do you want to tell us?

The future of massage (in my opinion) is going to rely primarily on education of the masses, teaching them to treat massage as healthcare, and therapists as healthcare professionals.

It would be awesome to see all spas and massage centers regulated to treat therapist better, both with time, and money.

The massage industry is turning out student s by the hundreds. The school where I attended now has public funding, when I went it was private pay and not everyone could get in. I took money out of my retirement to fund my education. Now, students that attend have a mindset of just gong to school, graduating and making a huge amount of money. The quality of people getting into school scares me. Some are definately not there for the right reasons. I know this because one of my good friends is an instructor. She often deals with kids who went out to smoke pot on their lunch break or come to class and just want to cause problems or sleep. It is a very personal career, we should carefully screen these people and tolerate nothing.

I get clients who tell me horror stories of going to get a massage, being uncomfortable, mostly because the massage is to heavy handed, and they tell the MT, but they don't stop. Then they come to me some years later and think I'm gonna beat them up. I ALWAYS make it clear to my client that if they are not comfortable for ANY reason at all, to cold, to hot, not enough pressure, to much pressure or anything else that is making their experience less than perfect, to please let me know ASAP so I can accomidate them. I think if we give our clients that "permission" they will be more likely to speak up, and if it is their first massage they will know that they are supposed to be comfortable throughout the entire massage. I have some that say, "Well, I didn't know I could say anything, I thought that is what it was supposed to be like" and that is completley valid, they have no clue because they don't have anything to compare it to. That is why it is the MT's job to pay attention to body language along with if they speak up. I get body language more from newbies than from people who have had massage.

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