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NCB is answering questions about the advanced cert
The Exam Development Director has put up a new blog answering questions about the advanced certification project.
Views: 262
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Laura Allen on
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Come on, Mike! You need to post this on the NCB site!
LA
Mike Hinkle said:Here's my point! There are four, at least, discussions talking about this issue and Gloria Coppola's survey as well. It looks like 8 out of 10 people are "against" advanced certification, especially, as a test from NCB. Why is this going forward? They are using info from 1997 to go ahead now. Therapists had less organizations back then and were trying to get established. There was not as many people with their hand out towards therapists. Times are different.
Liz says 4,000 surveys are being reviewed. Were they only sent to NCB members? I have been a NCB member since I graduated, I did not get a survey. Were they sent to the initial NCB members that all said "yes", at that time? I do not see or hear from but a handful of people, for this effort and almost all of them are NCB approved instructors.
To release this exam in April is wrong. I know there is a fantastic group working behind the scenes on this, some are my friends, but this effort, I feel, will be for naught, if things are not slowed down. The MTBOK, they are saying is a reason to go forward, will not even be released to the public until May in Seattle, WA.
Slow down, gather more information across the profession and it may work. Keep forcing and I think it will be rebuffed. If no one takes a "voluntary" test, what has been gained?
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Permalink Reply by Mike Hinkle on
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I did.
Laura Allen said:Come on, Mike! You need to post this on the NCB site!
LA
Mike Hinkle said:Here's my point! There are four, at least, discussions talking about this issue and Gloria Coppola's survey as well. It looks like 8 out of 10 people are "against" advanced certification, especially, as a test from NCB. Why is this going forward? They are using info from 1997 to go ahead now. Therapists had less organizations back then and were trying to get established. There was not as many people with their hand out towards therapists. Times are different.
Liz says 4,000 surveys are being reviewed. Were they only sent to NCB members? I have been a NCB member since I graduated, I did not get a survey. Were they sent to the initial NCB members that all said "yes", at that time? I do not see or hear from but a handful of people, for this effort and almost all of them are NCB approved instructors.
To release this exam in April is wrong. I know there is a fantastic group working behind the scenes on this, some are my friends, but this effort, I feel, will be for naught, if things are not slowed down. The MTBOK, they are saying is a reason to go forward, will not even be released to the public until May in Seattle, WA.
Slow down, gather more information across the profession and it may work. Keep forcing and I think it will be rebuffed. If no one takes a "voluntary" test, what has been gained?
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Just sent to me to pass on:
Open Letter and Call to Action for the Massage Therapy Field
8 Reasons Why National Certification Board should NOT Proceed with Advanced Certification Exam
by David Lauterstein, Co-Director, Lauterstein-Conway Massage School in Austin
Dear Fellow Bodyworkers, Massage Educators and Affiliated Industry Members,
After reading this email, if you are in agreement, please email this letter to everyone you know who cares about the massage field, the NCBTMB and other key people, organizations and massage magazines. I have attached it as a word document as well as pdf for your convenience.
The more I think about the NCBTMB’s proposed Advanced Certification Exam, the more I believe it is very much ill-conceived. With the MBLEx (Federation of State Massage Therapy Boards’ exam) now having cut into NCBTMB's market, the proposed advanced certification exam seems to be more necessitated as an income stream for NCBTMB, than as a mandated credential. One organization's bottom line should not rule the decisions made affecting our whole field – especially if those decisions will have a negative effect on the field as a whole.
1. From the response I’ve gotten from everyone except NCBTMB, I believe I’m in the majority in believing that the proposed Advanced Certification exam and credential proposed by NCBTMB is not a good idea at this time. The majority of therapists are not nationally certified and the majority of advanced therapists certainly are not nationally certified. And I believe the NCBTMB surveys in 1997 and onward did not include the majority of practitioners. Many teachers and school owners have serious reservations about the flawed psychometrics on which NCBTMB is claiming to base their decisions.
2. I never received the initial survey in 1997 or any others - was it completed only by Nationally Certified therapists? If the primary school owners in the U.S. were not consulted, who else was left out of the surveying process?
3. NCBTMB should not be the arbiter of who is advanced and who is not. Their track record of problematic service and self-interest is a source of discredit and suspicion with most of the therapists I talk with. That they should be trusted to handle this well is presumptuous.
4. Requiring to be certified as advanced that one be already Nationally Certified, arbitrarily, dramatically and unnaturally limits who can qualify for advanced certification to people who are currently Nationally Certified.
5. If we end up with a group of advanced practitioners who are not eligible - due to the arbitrary requirement of National Certification - vs. a group who are eligible - NCB would be putting a dysfunctional division in our field. A split between advanced practitioners not recognized by NCB and those who are will be divisive and deleterious to our field.
6. NCBTMB has not demonstrated thorough research nor industry backing for how to define the advanced knowledge an advanced practitioner should have. The emphasis of the proposed exam apparently would be orthopedic massage. While I appreciate orthopedic massage specialists, the majority of advanced practitioners practice holistically, that is they have excellent skills to resolve physical problems, while also utilizing advanced skills to prevent disease and to augment the health of their clients. Advanced Massage therapists largely are complementary health-care practitioners, not just allopathic disease-treatment specialists. Any advanced exam should reflect that fact.
7. There is basically no way in such exams to demonstrate practical skills. Qualifying someone as advanced without any way to demonstrate advanced skill level is problematic to say the least.
8. Who is considered advanced may be more appropriately decided by the individual organizations that oversee and/or train the specialties in our field - such as the Rolf Institute, AOBTA, Feldenkrais Guild, and other education institutions or organizations that can responsibly verify advanced skill levels. Only they can look closely enough at the individual practitioners to genuinely assess whether their knowledge and skills are advanced.
* * *
In sum, NCBTMB is proposing to make a bad decision which would affect the whole field, apparently on the basis of their own needs as an organization and the opinions of a minority whom they have preferred to survey. Additionally, to do this at the expense of the field which supports them is extremely unfortunate. We must all do what we can to prevent this.
I again encourage you to respond by emailing everyone you know who practices or is involved in the massage field, the NCBTMB and other key people, organizations and massage magazines.
I love our field, as I know you all do. And I am protective of its highest aspirations which I do believe we all want to see respected in the decisions made affecting our field.
Sincerely,
David Lauterstein
Co-Director
Lauterstein-Conway Massage School
4701-B Burnet Road
Austin, TX 78756
DavidL@TLCschool.com
http://www.tlcschool.com/
512.374.9222 ext. 20
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Permalink Reply by Darcy Neibaur on
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After listing to the session this morning on the World Massage Conference,"Taking Massage & Bodywork to New Heights" I whole Heartly agree with David. The comments about Advanced Certification Credential this morning were very vag and all that was said was to visit the website. I was truly disappointed in this session. All it was, was NCBTMB putting out a plea for members as LMT's are NOT re-certifying. To me the session this morning was a scare tactic.
Mike Hinkle said:Just sent to me to pass on:
Open Letter and Call to Action for the Massage Therapy Field
8 Reasons Why National Certification Board should NOT Proceed with Advanced Certification Exam
by David Lauterstein, Co-Director, Lauterstein-Conway Massage School in Austin
Dear Fellow Bodyworkers, Massage Educators and Affiliated Industry Members,
After reading this email, if you are in agreement, please email this letter to everyone you know who cares about the massage field, the NCBTMB and other key people, organizations and massage magazines. I have attached it as a word document as well as pdf for your convenience.
The more I think about the NCBTMB’s proposed Advanced Certification Exam, the more I believe it is very much ill-conceived. With the MBLEx (Federation of State Massage Therapy Boards’ exam) now having cut into NCBTMB's market, the proposed advanced certification exam seems to be more necessitated as an income stream for NCBTMB, than as a mandated credential. One organization's bottom line should not rule the decisions made affecting our whole field – especially if those decisions will have a negative effect on the field as a whole.
1. From the response I’ve gotten from everyone except NCBTMB, I believe I’m in the majority in believing that the proposed Advanced Certification exam and credential proposed by NCBTMB is not a good idea at this time. The majority of therapists are not nationally certified and the majority of advanced therapists certainly are not nationally certified. And I believe the NCBTMB surveys in 1997 and onward did not include the majority of practitioners. Many teachers and school owners have serious reservations about the flawed psychometrics on which NCBTMB is claiming to base their decisions.
2. I never received the initial survey in 1997 or any others - was it completed only by Nationally Certified therapists? If the primary school owners in the U.S. were not consulted, who else was left out of the surveying process?
3. NCBTMB should not be the arbiter of who is advanced and who is not. Their track record of problematic service and self-interest is a source of discredit and suspicion with most of the therapists I talk with. That they should be trusted to handle this well is presumptuous.
4. Requiring to be certified as advanced that one be already Nationally Certified, arbitrarily, dramatically and unnaturally limits who can qualify for advanced certification to people who are currently Nationally Certified.
5. If we end up with a group of advanced practitioners who are not eligible - due to the arbitrary requirement of National Certification - vs. a group who are eligible - NCB would be putting a dysfunctional division in our field. A split between advanced practitioners not recognized by NCB and those who are will be divisive and deleterious to our field.
6. NCBTMB has not demonstrated thorough research nor industry backing for how to define the advanced knowledge an advanced practitioner should have. The emphasis of the proposed exam apparently would be orthopedic massage. While I appreciate orthopedic massage specialists, the majority of advanced practitioners practice holistically, that is they have excellent skills to resolve physical problems, while also utilizing advanced skills to prevent disease and to augment the health of their clients. Advanced Massage therapists largely are complementary health-care practitioners, not just allopathic disease-treatment specialists. Any advanced exam should reflect that fact.
7. There is basically no way in such exams to demonstrate practical skills. Qualifying someone as advanced without any way to demonstrate advanced skill level is problematic to say the least.
8. Who is considered advanced may be more appropriately decided by the individual organizations that oversee and/or train the specialties in our field - such as the Rolf Institute, AOBTA, Feldenkrais Guild, and other education institutions or organizations that can responsibly verify advanced skill levels. Only they can look closely enough at the individual practitioners to genuinely assess whether their knowledge and skills are advanced.
* * *
In sum, NCBTMB is proposing to make a bad decision which would affect the whole field, apparently on the basis of their own needs as an organization and the opinions of a minority whom they have preferred to survey. Additionally, to do this at the expense of the field which supports them is extremely unfortunate. We must all do what we can to prevent this.
I again encourage you to respond by emailing everyone you know who practices or is involved in the massage field, the NCBTMB and other key people, organizations and massage magazines.
I love our field, as I know you all do. And I am protective of its highest aspirations which I do believe we all want to see respected in the decisions made affecting our field.
Sincerely,
David Lauterstein
Co-Director
Lauterstein-Conway Massage School
4701-B Burnet Road
Austin, TX 78756
DavidL@TLCschool.com
http://www.tlcschool.com/
512.374.9222 ext. 20
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Permalink Reply by Ruth M. Schopper-Hughes on
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I agree with you David. I passed the test in 1998 and have "advanced" my skills with continued education and practice. I just posted a question about "re" certification. I am a little unsettled about having to pay them again! With a late fee to boot! It amounts to $300.00 for four years to be put on their website. Will I really re-coop that advertising money? Hmmmmmmm.....
Darcy Neibaur BS LMT NCTMB said:After listing to the session this morning on the World Massage Conference,"Taking Massage & Bodywork to New Heights" I whole Heartly agree with David. The comments about Advanced Certification Credential this morning were very vag and all that was said was to visit the website. I was truly disappointed in this session. All it was, was NCBTMB putting out a plea for members as LMT's are NOT re-certifying. To me the session this morning was a scare tactic.
Mike Hinkle said:Just sent to me to pass on:
Open Letter and Call to Action for the Massage Therapy Field
8 Reasons Why National Certification Board should NOT Proceed with Advanced Certification Exam
by David Lauterstein, Co-Director, Lauterstein-Conway Massage School in Austin
Dear Fellow Bodyworkers, Massage Educators and Affiliated Industry Members,
After reading this email, if you are in agreement, please email this letter to everyone you know who cares about the massage field, the NCBTMB and other key people, organizations and massage magazines. I have attached it as a word document as well as pdf for your convenience.
The more I think about the NCBTMB’s proposed Advanced Certification Exam, the more I believe it is very much ill-conceived. With the MBLEx (Federation of State Massage Therapy Boards’ exam) now having cut into NCBTMB's market, the proposed advanced certification exam seems to be more necessitated as an income stream for NCBTMB, than as a mandated credential. One organization's bottom line should not rule the decisions made affecting our whole field – especially if those decisions will have a negative effect on the field as a whole.
1. From the response I’ve gotten from everyone except NCBTMB, I believe I’m in the majority in believing that the proposed Advanced Certification exam and credential proposed by NCBTMB is not a good idea at this time. The majority of therapists are not nationally certified and the majority of advanced therapists certainly are not nationally certified. And I believe the NCBTMB surveys in 1997 and onward did not include the majority of practitioners. Many teachers and school owners have serious reservations about the flawed psychometrics on which NCBTMB is claiming to base their decisions.
2. I never received the initial survey in 1997 or any others - was it completed only by Nationally Certified therapists? If the primary school owners in the U.S. were not consulted, who else was left out of the surveying process?
3. NCBTMB should not be the arbiter of who is advanced and who is not. Their track record of problematic service and self-interest is a source of discredit and suspicion with most of the therapists I talk with. That they should be trusted to handle this well is presumptuous.
4. Requiring to be certified as advanced that one be already Nationally Certified, arbitrarily, dramatically and unnaturally limits who can qualify for advanced certification to people who are currently Nationally Certified.
5. If we end up with a group of advanced practitioners who are not eligible - due to the arbitrary requirement of National Certification - vs. a group who are eligible - NCB would be putting a dysfunctional division in our field. A split between advanced practitioners not recognized by NCB and those who are will be divisive and deleterious to our field.
6. NCBTMB has not demonstrated thorough research nor industry backing for how to define the advanced knowledge an advanced practitioner should have. The emphasis of the proposed exam apparently would be orthopedic massage. While I appreciate orthopedic massage specialists, the majority of advanced practitioners practice holistically, that is they have excellent skills to resolve physical problems, while also utilizing advanced skills to prevent disease and to augment the health of their clients. Advanced Massage therapists largely are complementary health-care practitioners, not just allopathic disease-treatment specialists. Any advanced exam should reflect that fact.
7. There is basically no way in such exams to demonstrate practical skills. Qualifying someone as advanced without any way to demonstrate advanced skill level is problematic to say the least.
8. Who is considered advanced may be more appropriately decided by the individual organizations that oversee and/or train the specialties in our field - such as the Rolf Institute, AOBTA, Feldenkrais Guild, and other education institutions or organizations that can responsibly verify advanced skill levels. Only they can look closely enough at the individual practitioners to genuinely assess whether their knowledge and skills are advanced.
* * *
In sum, NCBTMB is proposing to make a bad decision which would affect the whole field, apparently on the basis of their own needs as an organization and the opinions of a minority whom they have preferred to survey. Additionally, to do this at the expense of the field which supports them is extremely unfortunate. We must all do what we can to prevent this.
I again encourage you to respond by emailing everyone you know who practices or is involved in the massage field, the NCBTMB and other key people, organizations and massage magazines.
I love our field, as I know you all do. And I am protective of its highest aspirations which I do believe we all want to see respected in the decisions made affecting our field.
Sincerely,
David Lauterstein
Co-Director
Lauterstein-Conway Massage School
4701-B Burnet Road
Austin, TX 78756
DavidL@TLCschool.com
http://www.tlcschool.com/
512.374.9222 ext. 20
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David's point of view needs to be posted on the NCB website. I appreciate everyone going there and commenting.
Ruth M. Schopper-Hughes said:I agree with you David. I passed the test in 1998 and have "advanced" my skills with continued education and practice. I just posted a question about "re" certification. I am a little unsettled about having to pay them again! With a late fee to boot! It amounts to $300.00 for four years to be put on their website. Will I really re-coop that advertising money? Hmmmmmmm.....
Darcy Neibaur BS LMT NCTMB said:After listing to the session this morning on the World Massage Conference,"Taking Massage & Bodywork to New Heights" I whole Heartly agree with David. The comments about Advanced Certification Credential this morning were very vag and all that was said was to visit the website. I was truly disappointed in this session. All it was, was NCBTMB putting out a plea for members as LMT's are NOT re-certifying. To me the session this morning was a scare tactic.
Mike Hinkle said:Just sent to me to pass on:
Open Letter and Call to Action for the Massage Therapy Field
8 Reasons Why National Certification Board should NOT Proceed with Advanced Certification Exam
by David Lauterstein, Co-Director, Lauterstein-Conway Massage School in Austin
Dear Fellow Bodyworkers, Massage Educators and Affiliated Industry Members,
After reading this email, if you are in agreement, please email this letter to everyone you know who cares about the massage field, the NCBTMB and other key people, organizations and massage magazines. I have attached it as a word document as well as pdf for your convenience.
The more I think about the NCBTMB’s proposed Advanced Certification Exam, the more I believe it is very much ill-conceived. With the MBLEx (Federation of State Massage Therapy Boards’ exam) now having cut into NCBTMB's market, the proposed advanced certification exam seems to be more necessitated as an income stream for NCBTMB, than as a mandated credential. One organization's bottom line should not rule the decisions made affecting our whole field – especially if those decisions will have a negative effect on the field as a whole.
1. From the response I’ve gotten from everyone except NCBTMB, I believe I’m in the majority in believing that the proposed Advanced Certification exam and credential proposed by NCBTMB is not a good idea at this time. The majority of therapists are not nationally certified and the majority of advanced therapists certainly are not nationally certified. And I believe the NCBTMB surveys in 1997 and onward did not include the majority of practitioners. Many teachers and school owners have serious reservations about the flawed psychometrics on which NCBTMB is claiming to base their decisions.
2. I never received the initial survey in 1997 or any others - was it completed only by Nationally Certified therapists? If the primary school owners in the U.S. were not consulted, who else was left out of the surveying process?
3. NCBTMB should not be the arbiter of who is advanced and who is not. Their track record of problematic service and self-interest is a source of discredit and suspicion with most of the therapists I talk with. That they should be trusted to handle this well is presumptuous.
4. Requiring to be certified as advanced that one be already Nationally Certified, arbitrarily, dramatically and unnaturally limits who can qualify for advanced certification to people who are currently Nationally Certified.
5. If we end up with a group of advanced practitioners who are not eligible - due to the arbitrary requirement of National Certification - vs. a group who are eligible - NCB would be putting a dysfunctional division in our field. A split between advanced practitioners not recognized by NCB and those who are will be divisive and deleterious to our field.
6. NCBTMB has not demonstrated thorough research nor industry backing for how to define the advanced knowledge an advanced practitioner should have. The emphasis of the proposed exam apparently would be orthopedic massage. While I appreciate orthopedic massage specialists, the majority of advanced practitioners practice holistically, that is they have excellent skills to resolve physical problems, while also utilizing advanced skills to prevent disease and to augment the health of their clients. Advanced Massage therapists largely are complementary health-care practitioners, not just allopathic disease-treatment specialists. Any advanced exam should reflect that fact.
7. There is basically no way in such exams to demonstrate practical skills. Qualifying someone as advanced without any way to demonstrate advanced skill level is problematic to say the least.
8. Who is considered advanced may be more appropriately decided by the individual organizations that oversee and/or train the specialties in our field - such as the Rolf Institute, AOBTA, Feldenkrais Guild, and other education institutions or organizations that can responsibly verify advanced skill levels. Only they can look closely enough at the individual practitioners to genuinely assess whether their knowledge and skills are advanced.
* * *
In sum, NCBTMB is proposing to make a bad decision which would affect the whole field, apparently on the basis of their own needs as an organization and the opinions of a minority whom they have preferred to survey. Additionally, to do this at the expense of the field which supports them is extremely unfortunate. We must all do what we can to prevent this.
I again encourage you to respond by emailing everyone you know who practices or is involved in the massage field, the NCBTMB and other key people, organizations and massage magazines.
I love our field, as I know you all do. And I am protective of its highest aspirations which I do believe we all want to see respected in the decisions made affecting our field.
Sincerely,
David Lauterstein
Co-Director
Lauterstein-Conway Massage School
4701-B Burnet Road
Austin, TX 78756
DavidL@TLCschool.com
http://www.tlcschool.com/
512.374.9222 ext. 20
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Permalink Reply by Bert Davich on
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Thus far the NCB (Liz) has not provided adequate answers to my questions, and reasonable questions of other therapists who have posted. The answers that are posted effectively evade the real questions. It appears as if they have no answers prepared, or none they want to post.
I am not posting there again until such time as the questions already presented are mindfully answered.
I DO encourage therapists who have not yet posted to please post their concerns even if someone else already has. The NCB needs to be aware of the consensus in our community.
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I just recalled the advanced certification survey. I completed the survey, then had several online conversations regarding the survey itself. Other therapist who commented agreed with my evaluation below.
The survey was designed (as surveys often are) with assumptions and omissions that channeled the outcome in a certain direction. Most of the possible answers to questions were not an answer of my choice. I did fill in the blank "other" but I doubt these answers carried any weight for obvious reasons.
I checked the NCB site and cannot find the survey results posted, although the "re certification survey" results are available (106 responses)
I think the NCB should publish the survey results or tell us why they will not.
I am going to the NCB site posted above "NCB is answering questions about the advanced cert" and request they publish the survey results.
I also suggest EVERYONE should do this.
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I guess I missed this a while back. I said "censor" because two separate entries from me for discusssions and questions were NOT posted.
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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Wagley on
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Bert, I wanted to let you know that Liz is at a NOCA conference but will respond to your questions as soon as possible. Thank you for your patience.
Bert Davich said:Thus far the NCB (Liz) has not provided adequate answers to my questions, and reasonable questions of other therapists who have posted. The answers that are posted effectively evade the real questions. It appears as if they have no answers prepared, or none they want to post.
I am not posting there again until such time as the questions already presented are mindfully answered.
I DO encourage therapists who have not yet posted to please post their concerns even if someone else already has. The NCB needs to be aware of the consensus in our community.
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Mike, I wanted to make sure you were aware that Liz is at a NOCA conference and will respond to your concerns as soon as possible. Thank you for your patience.
Mike Hinkle said:I guess I missed this a while back. I said "censor" because two separate entries from me for discusssions and questions were NOT posted.
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Permalink Reply by Angela Palmier on
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Hi everyone,
I also posted a response to David's comments both on this site as well as the NCB site. I'll go back and review the other comments to see if there were any questions that were not covered, as well as look into the questions that Bert had that were not addressed, or not addressed clearly enough---same for Mike.
Jennifer Wagley said:Mike, I wanted to make sure you were aware that Liz is at a NOCA conference and will respond to your concerns as soon as possible. Thank you for your patience.
Mike Hinkle said:I guess I missed this a while back. I said "censor" because two separate entries from me for discusssions and questions were NOT posted.
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