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NCBTMB Follows up with a Blog on Advanced Certification
The NCBTMB has followed through with their promise to put up a blog to keep us informed of the progress on the Advanced Certificat...
Please go there and comment! I
Please go there and comment! I
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mike Hinkle on
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Hi Laura,
I noticed the story said, The desire for such an advanced certification has been verified through various projects and studies over the past twelve years (based on information gathered from peer groups, past Job Task Analyses, Task Force reports in Board minutes and other empirical evidence.)
Sure would love to see the empirical evidence. Surveys and popular reaction headed this way, says just the opposite. Are they planning this as a stepping stone towards medical technique, the way Delaware has? That's the only way I see most therapists getting behind this effort.
This is voluntary right?
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Permalink Reply by Laura Allen on
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Yes, it is voluntary.
Mike Hinkle said:Hi Laura,
I noticed the story said, The desire for such an advanced certification has been verified through various projects and studies over the past twelve years (based on information gathered from peer groups, past Job Task Analyses, Task Force reports in Board minutes and other empirical evidence.)
Sure would love to see the empirical evidence. Surveys and popular reaction headed this way, says just the opposite. Are they planning this as a stepping stone towards medical technique, the way Delaware has? That's the only way I see most therapists getting behind this effort.
This is voluntary right?
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Permalink Reply by Gloria Coppola on
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Thanks for the update Laura
FYI - comments on the massage survey do feel there should be some kind of advanced certification , but most of the concerns are whether or not it will be mandatory or voluntary, how much will it cost and how will they set it up (specific modalities)
Many other voice of opinion feel it's just another rip off by NCB, clients don't really care about another certificate, etc.
Passing along the info!
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I'm aware that the powers that be at the NCBTMB read my blog, and I've forwarded dozens of comments to them that have appeared in other places like my FB page, Twitter etc.
Many of the comments I've received are in favor of voluntary advanced certification, and the majority that responded to me favored modality-specific certifications. I have personally stated my opinion on that as well; I think modality-specific exams would be a more auspicious offering than a general advanced exam.
In spite of my many past and future criticisms of the NCB, I certainly would not refer to something that is purely voluntary as a rip-off; it's something people will have their own freedom of choice about taking. Even in the event they throw a general advanced certification exam out there, there will still be a certain number of therapists who will go for that.
I also think that because of the general state of the economy right now, and their desire to have this project succeed, that the NCB will make it an affordable test. I haven't heard any mention of cost from there, but it's my guess that they will recognize that MTs will be more apt to take an exam that is reasonably priced.
As for clients not caring: perhaps some don't, but I think the wall full of our licenses and certifications people see when they walk through our door makes a statement that we have a staff full of professionals, and I think it contributes to the number of doctors we have as both clients and referral sources.
Finally, I have to state that when the thing comes out, I have the intent to take it myself. I've written a lot about it, so I feel compelled to. After all, it will put me in a much better position to complain about it or compliment it, if I can say I know first-hand what I am talking about. I'll have to let you know if I pass or fail! I probably need to read my own book again:) Maybe I should ask them if I could take the first one!
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Personally, I feel the educators themselves that are offering Advanced Certifications should be the one supply those exams. What does the NCB know about it anyway and why should they make money off of it?
Individuals out there offering some of these fabulous advanced techniques have done their studies. They can evaluate students and provide exams. For example: I'd rather see Erik Dalton offer it and tests his students with hands on.
I don't see the value in the NCB getting involved.
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I can agree with Erik Dalton offering an advanced cert in his Myoskeletal Technique. The issue I have, I suppose, is that not everybody is Erik Dalton. For instance, there are a gazillion people out there teaching medical massage or variations of it. I've taken some of their classes, some that were impressive, and some that I thought were a waste of time and money. There was recently an outfit on the coast of NC offering an "advanced certification" in Medical Massage. I'd never heard of any of the teachers until they were brought to the massage board's attention for operating outside our board rules.
I got an email a few days ago from someone wanting to offer an "advanced certification" in hot stone massage. It was 16 hours. Is that advanced? Not in my opinion.
If it's a proprietary technique that someone invented, for instance Richard Rossiter and his Rossiter Method, or Ruthie Hardee and Ashiatsu, I don't object to them offering their own certifications and advanced certifications. But when it comes down to medical massage, pregnancy massage, for instance, or cancer massage, there are so many people out there teaching different things that it has made the term "advanced certification" totally meaningless.
As to what they know about it anyway, have you read the list of people on the task force? It's sad that Whitney departed but he wasn't the only knowledgeable person on it. After 17 years of offering certification exams, a job task analysis of 7,000 + therapists and all the input they are receiving, I would hope they know something. I would rather see a uniform advanced certification than see 1000 different teachers offering their version of it and all of them claiming its an advanced certification. I think if people have a choice in obtaining an advanced certification from the NCB or an advanced certification from Laura Allen, they're probably going to go for the one from the NCB.
Gloria Coppola said:Personally, I feel the educators themselves that are offering Advanced Certifications should be the one supply those exams. What does the NCB know about it anyway and why should they make money off of it?
Individuals out there offering some of these fabulous advanced techniques have done their studies. They can evaluate students and provide exams. For example: I'd rather see Erik Dalton offer it and tests his students with hands on.
I don't see the value in the NCB getting involved.
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I'm lost. So if someone does invent something new, what will they do, they will have to attain permission from NCB? Who will be the few chosen to give these classes? Based on KSAs? Time in grade? This sounds awful mixed up.
Will be glad to see some real information other than, we don't know what's going to be on the exam, but we know we are going through with it.
Personally, I'd rather have you, Laura!
Laura Allen said:I can agree with Erik Dalton offering an advanced cert in his Myoskeletal Technique. The issue I have, I suppose, is that not everybody is Erik Dalton. For instance, there are a gazillion people out there teaching medical massage or variations of it. I've taken some of their classes, some that were impressive, and some that I thought were a waste of time and money. There was recently an outfit on the coast of NC offering an "advanced certification" in Medical Massage. I'd never heard of any of the teachers until they were brought to the massage board's attention for operating outside our board rules.
I got an email a few days ago from someone wanting to offer an "advanced certification" in hot stone massage. It was 16 hours. Is that advanced? Not in my opinion.
If it's a proprietary technique that someone invented, for instance Richard Rossiter and his Rossiter Method, or Ruthie Hardee and Ashiatsu, I don't object to them offering their own certifications and advanced certifications. But when it comes down to medical massage, pregnancy massage, for instance, or cancer massage, there are so many people out there teaching different things that it has made the term "advanced certification" totally meaningless.
As to what they know about it anyway, have you read the list of people on the task force? It's sad that Whitney departed but he wasn't the only knowledgeable person on it. After 17 years of offering certification exams, a job task analysis of 7,000 + therapists and all the input they are receiving, I would hope they know something. I would rather see a uniform advanced certification than see 1000 different teachers offering their version of it and all of them claiming its an advanced certification. I think if people have a choice in obtaining an advanced certification from the NCB or an advanced certification from Laura Allen, they're probably going to go for the one from the NCB.
Gloria Coppola said:Personally, I feel the educators themselves that are offering Advanced Certifications should be the one supply those exams. What does the NCB know about it anyway and why should they make money off of it?
Individuals out there offering some of these fabulous advanced techniques have done their studies. They can evaluate students and provide exams. For example: I'd rather see Erik Dalton offer it and tests his students with hands on.
I don't see the value in the NCB getting involved.
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Unless NCB is going to require some sort of hands on , I don't feel just a written exam is of any value personally. I know many who have difficulty with written exams and it doesn't prove anything, just because you can comprehend some from a book.??
I agree that some 'unknowns' are offering advanced this and that....perhaps we need to Start with
the "nationally recognizable" to set some standards first.???
No! 16 hrs in Hot stone is NOT advanced in my opinion. Our society wants everything advanced ASAP
I get the same thing from my lomi and cst classes (want advanced this and that) and people don't understand the commitment it takes for any modality to be "mastered" on many levels. Practice, practice!
They don't want to follow through sometimes past basic classes. I saw this as a teaching assistant for the Upledger institute for 10 years. So many people take Level I and practice CST the first day out of class. I see it now offering my own classes.
So how does one govern this? It's a hard decision no doubt and we all have our preferences.
I'd love to ideally know we are honorable and personally responsible for our own advancement.
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Years ago, AMTA offered hands-on as part of their testing; it was the first thing available in NC if I remember correctly, to prove any kind of competence.
Then again, hands-on is sort of relative to the receiver's experience, too. For example, there's a therapist in my own office who is very popular, and I haven't let her touch me in years...she's too rough for my taste, but a lot of people love what she does. What one person perceives to be a great massage might not be great at all to the next person. It might just come down to proving that you know the strokes in sequence for a particular technique as enough to prove competence. That wouldn't necessarily mean they're good at it.
I don't think there's any danger of anyone who "invents anything new" having to go through the NCB. Somebody claims to invent something new every day. Most of it isn't new at all...just someone's combination of strokes and you can almost bet many others have done it before, they just didn't put their name on it. Upledger thought he had discovered the craniosacral rhythm until he was invited to speak at a conference in France early in his career and noticed he was boring the audience to tears. Someone came up afterward with a medical reference that had been printed in France in 1906 that detailed the whole thing. Everything old is new again, so the saying goes.
Thank you, Mike, for the vote of confidence, and I am going to give you a Laura Allen Advanced Certification in The Proliferation of Massage For One and All!
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Thanks, does that mean, I have to take the test? lol "Keep the Faith!"
Laura Allen said:Years ago, AMTA offered hands-on as part of their testing; it was the first thing available in NC if I remember correctly, to prove any kind of competence.
Then again, hands-on is sort of relative to the receiver's experience, too. For example, there's a therapist in my own office who is very popular, and I haven't let her touch me in years...she's too rough for my taste, but a lot of people love what she does. What one person perceives to be a great massage might not be great at all to the next person. It might just come down to proving that you know the strokes in sequence for a particular technique as enough to prove competence. That wouldn't necessarily mean they're good at it.
I don't think there's any danger of anyone who "invents anything new" having to go through the NCB. Somebody claims to invent something new every day. Most of it isn't new at all...just someone's combination of strokes and you can almost bet many others have done it before, they just didn't put their name on it. Upledger thought he had discovered the craniosacral rhythm until he was invited to speak at a conference in France early in his career and noticed he was boring the audience to tears. Someone came up afterward with a medical reference that had been printed in France in 1906 that detailed the whole thing. Everything old is new again, so the saying goes.
Thank you, Mike, for the vote of confidence, and I am going to give you a Laura Allen Advanced Certification in The Proliferation of Massage For One and All!
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I agree everything old comes around...nothing really new...just new names or styles!
Thanks for doing all you do!
As for Hands On , I believe it is Oregon or Washington State (can't remember at the moment) that does require a hands on exam. My colleagues in that area said they basically ask you questions about what and why you are doing something while you perform your hands on and test you on muscles etc. Not a bad idea in my opinion for an advanced type certification.
Correct, not everyone has the touch we prefer, but it is nice to know that they know what they are touching and why. The majority of students I have worked with in the past 20 years unfortunately can't explain this stuff. I have even had LMT's in the biz for 15 years or more not be able to explain what and why they were doing something.
I was teaching an Anterior Structural Rebalancing class and I don't even want to tell you how many don't remember anything from the front of the body.
Just don't see how they are going to regulate this to prove anything?
Laura Allen said:Years ago, AMTA offered hands-on as part of their testing; it was the first thing available in NC if I remember correctly, to prove any kind of competence.
Then again, hands-on is sort of relative to the receiver's experience, too. For example, there's a therapist in my own office who is very popular, and I haven't let her touch me in years...she's too rough for my taste, but a lot of people love what she does. What one person perceives to be a great massage might not be great at all to the next person. It might just come down to proving that you know the strokes in sequence for a particular technique as enough to prove competence. That wouldn't necessarily mean they're good at it.
I don't think there's any danger of anyone who "invents anything new" having to go through the NCB. Somebody claims to invent something new every day. Most of it isn't new at all...just someone's combination of strokes and you can almost bet many others have done it before, they just didn't put their name on it. Upledger thought he had discovered the craniosacral rhythm until he was invited to speak at a conference in France early in his career and noticed he was boring the audience to tears. Someone came up afterward with a medical reference that had been printed in France in 1906 that detailed the whole thing. Everything old is new again, so the saying goes.
Thank you, Mike, for the vote of confidence, and I am going to give you a Laura Allen Advanced Certification in The Proliferation of Massage For One and All!
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It won't be regulation; that's the domain of the state boards. It will just be voluntary certification for those who care to seek it.
I love SR. It is my favorite modality...I taught it at TWY and the first two years I was in Ireland. I've avoided teaching it at THERA-SSAGE out of respect for the fact that TWY was right up the road and they were still offering it, but now that they're not doing it anymore, I might have to dust that one off!
Gloria Coppola said:I agree everything old comes around...nothing really new...just new names or styles!
Thanks for doing all you do!
As for Hands On , I believe it is Oregon or Washington State (can't remember at the moment) that does require a hands on exam. My colleagues in that area said they basically ask you questions about what and why you are doing something while you perform your hands on and test you on muscles etc. Not a bad idea in my opinion for an advanced type certification.
Correct, not everyone has the touch we prefer, but it is nice to know that they know what they are touching and why. The majority of students I have worked with in the past 20 years unfortunately can't explain this stuff. I have even had LMT's in the biz for 15 years or more not be able to explain what and why they were doing something.
I was teaching an Anterior Structural Rebalancing class and I don't even want to tell you how many don't remember anything from the front of the body.
Just don't see how they are going to regulate this to prove anything?
Laura Allen said:Years ago, AMTA offered hands-on as part of their testing; it was the first thing available in NC if I remember correctly, to prove any kind of competence.
Then again, hands-on is sort of relative to the receiver's experience, too. For example, there's a therapist in my own office who is very popular, and I haven't let her touch me in years...she's too rough for my taste, but a lot of people love what she does. What one person perceives to be a great massage might not be great at all to the next person. It might just come down to proving that you know the strokes in sequence for a particular technique as enough to prove competence. That wouldn't necessarily mean they're good at it.
I don't think there's any danger of anyone who "invents anything new" having to go through the NCB. Somebody claims to invent something new every day. Most of it isn't new at all...just someone's combination of strokes and you can almost bet many others have done it before, they just didn't put their name on it. Upledger thought he had discovered the craniosacral rhythm until he was invited to speak at a conference in France early in his career and noticed he was boring the audience to tears. Someone came up afterward with a medical reference that had been printed in France in 1906 that detailed the whole thing. Everything old is new again, so the saying goes.
Thank you, Mike, for the vote of confidence, and I am going to give you a Laura Allen Advanced Certification in The Proliferation of Massage For One and All!
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