Needing advice from any who have experience working with fibromyalgia clients

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Permalink Reply by Gary W Addis, LMT on August 1, 2013 at 1:05am

WHAT???  I am flabbergasted that you are now claiming the kidney is located in the low back.  In my book, low back= lumbar 4-5 and sacrum 1, after that I'd say we've moved into the hip region.  Dude, palpation consists of fingertips or thumbs pressing in, finding the outlines of the tissue being palpated.  Rubbing gently over the region containing the kidneys, being careful not to apply force that penetrates the covering muscle layers, is NOT affecting the kidneys. 

Will you finally understand this: I am not an endocrinologist: it is not within the scope of practice of a massage therapist to interact with hormonal output.  And I don't need to. I provide effective treatment of FM without violating protocols governing my profession.

Wilson Jordan said:

I never said poke and I go back to my original statement that it is impossible to massage the low back with touching that kidney and adrenal region the only factor is rather or not the practitioner can feel what is under their hands. Now what is the problem with that since it is happening already. I have never seen a massage therapist who did not rub gently or however over the spoken about areas.  I find your attack way of base and ignoring the simple truth of what is already happening on practitioners tables.  But more so the rigidity of your statements about something that you don't know with certain sound very familiar to Western thought. Nevertheless, the information stands until disapproved not with words but with touch and that doesn't happen, at least be willing to admit that you "might" not know if it works or for that matter what balancing the said organs do or doesn't do. 

Therese Schwartz said:

I'm down with that! :)

Gordon J. Wallis said:

Well I think this thread is over for me. Lol. I just talk about what I do. All I know for sure is that I'm a better therapist now then I ever have been. I'm sure that goes for all of us.

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Permalink Reply by Gary W Addis, LMT on August 1, 2013 at 1:13am

Yes, I do feel stuck...as if I am standing chest deep in wet cow patties. 

Now, are we done with this? I am.  Have a nice life, Wilson. 

Wilson Jordan said:

I guess I am lost since when is laying on of hands different than palpation. How can one be done without the other? You are stuck in details that are not clear to you.  Oh well so be it.

Therese Schwartz said:

I'm down with that! :)

Gordon J. Wallis said:

Well I think this thread is over for me. Lol. I just talk about what I do. All I know for sure is that I'm a better therapist now then I ever have been. I'm sure that goes for all of us.

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Permalink Reply by Wilson Jordan on August 1, 2013 at 10:08am

okay, i think i know where to go with and how to get there. gary, i do ask that you walk with me through the process step by step then see if the picture you are holding about what i'm presenting is the same; and if not acknowledge and if it is the same then, i too will acknowledge and back up and further listen to you and fully understand your treatment. please i never offer a treatment only a relaxation technique and a drainage. with that in mind i'll proceed.  all data will show a high rate of participation by the adrenals in the condition name FM.  

Regardless if FM is caused externally or internally the adrenals are too active.  Period! The adrenals sit a top the Kidneys there is no way for the adrenals to be hyper without it affecting the kidneys (that's another discussion). The issue is can the adrenals be balanced through hands-on. We know any glands inside of the skull cannot be directly or at best slight accessed.  What we also know is what lies outside of the skull can be accessed much more. Hence the adrenals now are of value because although they lie deep we know they aren't too deep because a punch can reach the Kidney they sit a top of; or even a puncture, poke, deep probe all of those can cause harm where the kidney and adrenal sit.  Which means there has to be access to some part of them.  Both of them have a cortex the covering which rises and deflates based upon their level of stress (activity). When either are over producing or working overtime the cortex on each of these (kidneys and adrenals) swell and often times feel like a pebble and can get to the size of a golf ball with horrendous hardness. But still it is only the cortext of each that responds this way; the gland and organ itself is never monitored by touch.

Whether we agree or not there is validity to reflexology. The thought I put out there initially is that the issue with reflexology is not the technique but how to apply the technique and control what it does or at least have a good idea what it will do and to be able to replicate doing the same thing at will.  This is where this Eastern technique has encountered problems. Nevertheless, it is still around.  The location of the adrenal on the foot is unique because it is all too often mistaken for cuniform & or navicular. That lump that moves from side to side, that is painful with direct pressure. This knot is an electrical like impulse to the other end of the adrenal.  Reflexology is more electrical than anything else and that too is why it is still gravely misunderstood by most. 

Next, the tie in patient is lying supine; practitioners dorsal palm of left hand is wrapped gently around the knot and bottomo of left foot, from the inside out hand placement is not from the outside in.  Next right hand, (ask client to lift up) or slide r hand under the region of the kidney; identifying the kidney from the muscles structures is a bit tricky. Gentle fingertip (the edge of the finger not the pad) is the primary feeler, if this does work place hand about region move hand around slowly feel for the warmest location, place hand down) the client is lying on top of you hand (side effect if client is heavy your hand will go to sleep during this process and wake back up all on its own). 

Next slide hand up about 1-2 inches so the center of the palm of the right hand is directly underneath the adrenal.  Left adrenal with left reflexive spot in foot.  Hold until there is a simultaneous pulsation of three consecutive beats involving both the gland and the foot, in unison.  Unison here means exactly at the same time. When this happens that adrenal cortex is stress free and is no longer receiving signals for over activity from the gland itself. You will discover something amazing, that most of us are not in natural balance and how this relaxes all the tissues in the body really makes what ever the practitioner does for treatment so much easier because their is no resistance from the flight or fight mechanism.

I am not saying that you cannot get as good results without the adrenal balance. But the effect will tell you more than I ever could.  When the adrenals are balanced then so must the kidneys. That too is another discussion because for most the adrenals will not initially come into balance under 15 min to hour. The more often it is done the easier it is for the balance to gain integrity. As of yet, no bodywork has been done this is called prep work. Prepping the body for the treatment you want it to receive without fighting you off.  The mechanism that causes the body to fight is the adrenals. Hope this clarifies. and my sincere apology for any misunderstanding or emotional barks.

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Permalink Reply by Gary W Addis, LMT on August 1, 2013 at 12:44pm

Wilson, thank you for the courteous tone. I'll try to reciprocate.  I'll start with an apology of my own.  As many can attest, I can become rather strident defending my beliefs. 

I did try what you just suggested, on myself just now; haven't had the opportunity to attempt with a client yet.  Wilson, I felt pulse in my fingertips after holding the spots for a time.  And since the heartbeat sends its blood load throughout the system with each beat, I felt the pulse simultaneously.

At the root of your adrenal balancing is reflexology.  I am skeptical of reflexology.  But I will give it a fair trial, see whether it affects the body at all.  Taking out trigger points after using the sensory flood (pre-synaptic inhibition) Gordon outlined to overload and quieten the nociceptive pain signal is straightforward, and quick.    The above works for me, but if I weren't open to trying new things there's half a dozen techniques in my toolkit I wouldn't have learned. 

Wilson Jordan said:

okay, i think i know where to go with and how to get there. gary, i do ask that you walk with me through the process step by step then see if the picture you are holding about what i'm presenting is the same; and if not acknowledge and if it is the same then, i too will acknowledge and back up and further listen to you and fully understand your treatment. please i never offer a treatment only a relaxation technique and a drainage. with that in mind i'll proceed.  all data will show a high rate of participation by the adrenals in the condition name FM.  

Regardless if FM is caused externally or internally the adrenals are too active.  Period! The adrenals sit a top the Kidneys there is no way for the adrenals to be hyper without it affecting the kidneys (that's another discussion). The issue is can the adrenals be balanced through hands-on. We know any glands inside of the skull cannot be directly or at best slight accessed.  What we also know is what lies outside of the skull can be accessed much more. Hence the adrenals now are of value because although they lie deep we know they aren't too deep because a punch can reach the Kidney they sit a top of; or even a puncture, poke, deep probe all of those can cause harm where the kidney and adrenal sit.  Which means there has to be access to some part of them.  Both of them have a cortex the covering which rises and deflates based upon their level of stress (activity). When either are over producing or working overtime the cortex on each of these (kidneys and adrenals) swell and often times feel like a pebble and can get to the size of a golf ball with horrendous hardness. But still it is only the cortext of each that responds this way; the gland and organ itself is never monitored by touch.

Whether we agree or not there is validity to reflexology. The thought I put out there initially is that the issue with reflexology is not the technique but how to apply the technique and control what it does or at least have a good idea what it will do and to be able to replicate doing the same thing at will.  This is where this Eastern technique has encountered problems. Nevertheless, it is still around.  The location of the adrenal on the foot is unique because it is all too often mistaken for cuniform & or navicular. That lump that moves from side to side, that is painful with direct pressure. This knot is an electrical like impulse to the other end of the adrenal.  Reflexology is more electrical than anything else and that too is why it is still gravely misunderstood by most. 

Next, the tie in patient is lying supine; practitioners dorsal palm of left hand is wrapped gently around the knot and bottomo of left foot, from the inside out hand placement is not from the outside in.  Next right hand, (ask client to lift up) or slide r hand under the region of the kidney; identifying the kidney from the muscles structures is a bit tricky. Gentle fingertip (the edge of the finger not the pad) is the primary feeler, if this does work place hand about region move hand around slowly feel for the warmest location, place hand down) the client is lying on top of you hand (side effect if client is heavy your hand will go to sleep during this process and wake back up all on its own). 

Next slide hand up about 1-2 inches so the center of the palm of the right hand is directly underneath the adrenal.  Left adrenal with left reflexive spot in foot.  Hold until there is a simultaneous pulsation of three consecutive beats involving both the gland and the foot, in unison.  Unison here means exactly at the same time. When this happens that adrenal cortex is stress free and is no longer receiving signals for over activity from the gland itself. You will discover something amazing, that most of us are not in natural balance and how this relaxes all the tissues in the body really makes what ever the practitioner does for treatment so much easier because their is no resistance from the flight or fight mechanism.

I am not saying that you cannot get as good results without the adrenal balance. But the effect will tell you more than I ever could.  When the adrenals are balanced then so must the kidneys. That too is another discussion because for most the adrenals will not initially come into balance under 15 min to hour. The more often it is done the easier it is for the balance to gain integrity. As of yet, no bodywork has been done this is called prep work. Prepping the body for the treatment you want it to receive without fighting you off.  The mechanism that causes the body to fight is the adrenals. Hope this clarifies. and my sincere apology for any misunderstanding or emotional barks.

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Permalink Reply by Wilson Jordan on August 1, 2013 at 4:19pm

you will not be able to thoroughly do your own adrenals because the hand position is too awkward; right hand on right adrenal and left hand on adrenal reflex spot on foot.  What you are doing sounds like it allows you in quicker to treat TP's this technique allows you in anywhere in the body with same effect that you are doing except you won't have to overload it to shut it down; it will flow out into a state of balance which also allows more work to be done.  

Because of the pulse in the fingertips it is best to start with the center of the palm and get use to the "WAVE" like feeling between the two hands; this is the same feeling cranio-sacral folks tap into.  The finger tips are for precision. As you discovered one has to be able to distinguish clearly between their own pulse and the clients. That is why as I said for most I suggest the center of the palm.

The purpose of this is not to remove triggers but to give you a working field that is receptive to touch and offers much transparency into the body.  Also, turning down or off the adrenals can't really be for just an hour because if production inside the adrenal resumes shortly after the treatment the stimulus begins its cycle all over. Keeping the adrenals in balance all the body to show what is underneath of what is clearly visible.  The funny thing I've discovered about the adrenals is when they are active the body cannot be seen how it really is holding on.  Only when they turn off is there a relaxation of the body from the inside out other wise fight and flight is still in operation and this I find is all too much of the case with most.

Thank you for accepting my apology and for extending your own. I too realize some of the same things.

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