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School was Basic Training - Continuing Educaton and Work creates Polished Therapists
Bits and Quips- An argument seems to be students are being produced too fast. They should be slowed down by having even more hours thrown at them in school. It would also get more students to quit, thus less competition. And this would make more money for schools. I always looked at school as Basic Training. I knew I would get most of my instruction - after school. I think people expect too much out of school. The student needs to understand, it is up to them, to get the knowledge. If they have the "desire", I think they will.
The BOK (Body of Knowledge) will be released at the event being advertised on this page to the right. It will offer a set of guidelines needed for entry level status into the profession.
More students are now becoming the "Teacher". The profession is exploding. How will it change as it grows? More people than ever are excited about Massage! Ain't it Great?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Gloria Coppola on
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I'm not so sure the issue is giving them more...the issue is giving them more time to master what they are getting and making them marketable when they do graduate. In my experience from teaching/traveling around the states many (too many) new graduates can't even perform a basic Swedish massage. I personally feel the 6 month trainings have created a factory produced inadequate therapist. Yes, there are some gifted individuals who do fine, most don't and many quit because they get discouraged.
After my almost year long training 20 something years ago, I did become a "junkie" and attend all sorts of classes. I feel I had the inquisitiveness and "spark" from my training that encouraged me to continue. I came out of school being able to start a successful practice because my basic skill level had been mastered. We worked on a lot of therapists. Most students don't have that opportunity. Yes it is up to us to get additional training. However, it is up to the schools to provide a thorough and complete basic training. I am not seeing that overall. It is up to the schools to represent the industry properly , ethically and honestly. Many schools lead the students to believe they can perform loads of modalities because they had a little intro class. I JUST Received this feedback from a class I taught In Iowa.
Many students are becoming the teacher and another reason I feel schools are not providing adequate training. I see students after a year out of school, teaching classes. Not only do they not have a complete and thorough understanding of how massage and anatomy/physiology work together , they do not have teaching skills. Another dis-service.
I love the fact the profession as grown LOTS in the last 20 years! I am so glad I have been
an integral part in the education process and legislative changes throughout the years too. yes it is Great! We definitely need more hands on skilled practitioners to help all the stressed out individuals in our society today!
Yes students need the desire and teachers should be sparking that desire, in my opinion
Thanks Mike
G
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Permalink Reply by Mike Hinkle on
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Those are all great points. So how many hours or basic skill level mastered do you feel they should meet? We have to have these set, before we can move to the next aspect.
Should the same group approach CE Providers with the same, set of how many hours, or basic skill level mastered do you feel they should meet? There are so many questions that need to be addressed.
Gloria Coppola said:I'm not so sure the issue is giving them more...the issue is giving them more time to master what they are getting and making them marketable when they do graduate. In my experience from teaching/traveling around the states many (too many) new graduates can't even perform a basic Swedish massage. I personally feel the 6 month trainings have created a factory produced inadequate therapist. Yes, there are some gifted individuals who do fine, most don't and many quit because they get discouraged.
After my almost year long training 20 something years ago, I did become a "junkie" and attend all sorts of classes. I feel I had the inquisitiveness and "spark" from my training that encouraged me to continue. I came out of school being able to start a successful practice because my basic skill level had been mastered. We worked on a lot of therapists. Most students don't have that opportunity. Yes it is up to us to get additional training. However, it is up to the schools to provide a thorough and complete basic training. I am not seeing that overall. It is up to the schools to represent the industry properly , ethically and honestly. Many schools lead the students to believe they can perform loads of modalities because they had a little intro class. I JUST Received this feedback from a class I taught In Iowa.
Many students are becoming the teacher and another reason I feel schools are not providing adequate training. I see students after a year out of school, teaching classes. Not only do they not have a complete and thorough understanding of how massage and anatomy/physiology work together , they do not have teaching skills. Another dis-service.
I love the fact the profession as grown LOTS in the last 20 years! I am so glad I have been
an integral part in the education process and legislative changes throughout the years too. yes it is Great! We definitely need more hands on skilled practitioners to help all the stressed out individuals in our society today!
Yes students need the desire and teachers should be sparking that desire, in my opinion
Thanks Mike
G
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Permalink Reply by I. Paul Dunsdon on
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(I copy and paste this from another forum but I think what I wrote there applies here....)
Hey Guys Here's an idea....
Why not have a minimum standard of required hours that would be accepted world wide and taught by every school. Then allow each school to offer advanced studies based on the goals of the student, much like medical school. Doctors have a base knowledge and then a speciality. In my case I never plan on using Reflexology and Chakra Balancing in my practice and the Shiatsu I learned was more of an introduction to the art as opposed to actually being able to market myself as a practitioner.
Granted this would require some logistic challenges in the school setting but I paid ten thousand dollars for my education and half of the things I learned I will never use. Or it would require CE credits to really put into my practice.
I fully believe in reciprocity and in situations like California, Idaho and Canada I anticipate that it is just to difficult for a good therapist to "travel the world" with his or her skill.
What are your thoughts?
P.
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Hi Paul,
Well that's an idea. But my first thought is... if you can't get 50 states to agree to one set standard (to organize the profession) how are you gong to get hundreds, if not a thousand plus schools to agree? It sounds like you want there to be more demands put on therapists that want to become instructors, since they are teaching too fast out of school.
I. Paul Dunsdon said:(I copy and paste this from another forum but I think what I wrote there applies here....)
Hey Guys Here's an idea....
Why not have a minimum standard of required hours that would be accepted world wide and taught by every school. Then allow each school to offer advanced studies based on the goals of the student, much like medical school. Doctors have a base knowledge and then a speciality. In my case I never plan on using Reflexology and Chakra Balancing in my practice and the Shiatsu I learned was more of an introduction to the art as opposed to actually being able to market myself as a practitioner.
Granted this would require some logistic challenges in the school setting but I paid ten thousand dollars for my education and half of the things I learned I will never use. Or it would require CE credits to really put into my practice.
I fully believe in reciprocity and in situations like California, Idaho and Canada I anticipate that it is just to difficult for a good therapist to "travel the world" with his or her skill.
What are your thoughts?
P.
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Permalink Reply by Laura Allen on
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You're dead on the money about continuing education and work experience. School is just basic training. I am appalled at the therapists who view continuing education as some sort of burden they have to bear, and I hear that all the time. I've had people tell me they know everything they need to know and that continuing education is just a money racket for massage boards.
The more I think I know, the more I find out I don't know squat. There are some brilliant people on these pages that are so far above what I ever hope to be. And I'm not saying that lightly, because I've managed to have a few good accomplishments of my own.
I have been fortunate to take a lot of continuing education, and I have way over the hours I need for every renewal period. I want to find things that inspire me--classes that make me go, "hmmm, I should be doing that." I seek out classes that give me new ways to help clients, new ways to improve my business skills, new ways of thinking. I'm just an old dog trying to learn new tricks, and I look forward to learning them and sharing them with others. It's not a burden. It's a privilege.
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I agree with Laura. The more I learn...the less I know. I just returned from teaching a training and the neighboring state is NOT regulated or required to take Ce's...so most of them Don't. I also had a student in the class who is required in her state but only takes what is required and does see it as a burden for the most part.
I am an eternal student. This field opens so many doorways/gateways......It's fascinating and fun.
I love learning new techniques, skills, ideas, stretching myself, meeting new people and on and on!
As for a basic program Mike - I personally feel it should be a minimum of 1,000 hrs. Similar to how Florida or NYS is setting things up and Canada started. Our field has so many aspects and yes many can be done as continuing education. However, I feel key components are missing! I also feel students do not get enough practice of skilled practitioners who can have valuable feedback and make sure the basics they are learning are done correctly!
I am so opposed to 6 month trainings and I do make it known!!! There is just NOT enough time to turn out a quality therapist in my opinion. I had a massage school . I saw the results with a 12 month vs. a 6 month program. The stress is too high for everyone involved. Lots of details don't get addessed and the "crunch" to get it all done leaves people overwhelmed. Often students fly by and hope they pass.
Ok, enough for tonight. ;)
Laura Allen said:You're dead on the money about continuing education and work experience. School is just basic training. I am appalled at the therapists who view continuing education as some sort of burden they have to bear, and I hear that all the time. I've had people tell me they know everything they need to know and that continuing education is just a money racket for massage boards.
The more I think I know, the more I find out I don't know squat. There are some brilliant people on these pages that are so far above what I ever hope to be. And I'm not saying that lightly, because I've managed to have a few good accomplishments of my own.
I have been fortunate to take a lot of continuing education, and I have way over the hours I need for every renewal period. I want to find things that inspire me--classes that make me go, "hmmm, I should be doing that." I seek out classes that give me new ways to help clients, new ways to improve my business skills, new ways of thinking. I'm just an old dog trying to learn new tricks, and I look forward to learning them and sharing them with others. It's not a burden. It's a privilege.
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I'm with you Laura. I look foward to classes and networking with other therapists. That's one of the best parts of this profession. If people are not sharing, they are only getting a small part of this profession. If they aren't attending these Festivals, conventions or school classes they are missing such an opportunity. We give you a whole weekend of classes and vendors to submerse yourself in, to break up that same old day in - day out routine. It's great to fight "burn out" too. And if you share the ride, look how much networking you can get done.
The number one reason I want to see 500 hours as the standard is that most people are already there. It will cause less hard feelings across the board. Yes, NY, Nebraska and Canada will not come down. And some of the lower states may not be ready to go up. But you are not going to get everyone, no matter what number is set.
We must start on the most common ground and that is 500 hours. But we will see what the MTBOK comes out with in their first draft that everyone is anticipating.
Laura Allen said:You're dead on the money about continuing education and work experience. School is just basic training. I am appalled at the therapists who view continuing education as some sort of burden they have to bear, and I hear that all the time. I've had people tell me they know everything they need to know and that continuing education is just a money racket for massage boards.
The more I think I know, the more I find out I don't know squat. There are some brilliant people on these pages that are so far above what I ever hope to be. And I'm not saying that lightly, because I've managed to have a few good accomplishments of my own.
I have been fortunate to take a lot of continuing education, and I have way over the hours I need for every renewal period. I want to find things that inspire me--classes that make me go, "hmmm, I should be doing that." I seek out classes that give me new ways to help clients, new ways to improve my business skills, new ways of thinking. I'm just an old dog trying to learn new tricks, and I look forward to learning them and sharing them with others. It's not a burden. It's a privilege.
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Hi Gloria,
More school is fine.I agree extra schooling can maybe turn out a better therapist, but that would still come back to the school. And if you raise these hours, now the schools have to charge more, to make the same profit if they are to reach the hours. Less people will enter the field (hurting schools again) because you have doubled the hours. I believe therapists that feel like that student, that does the minimum, will most likely weed themselves out. Every profession has it's good and bad operators within it. I think 500 hours should be enough to give basic skills training and mostly public safety aspects. Then just like becoming a doctor or anything else. Go to classes, get certified, trained and specialize.
The fight to reciprocity will be realized by the states that have the most commom ground. There will be those that don't reach the standard and there will be states that therapists will avoid because of the heightened requirements.Hopefully the majority, in the middle, will band together and make life easier on a lot of massage therapists across this country.
I understand accomplished therapists that have kept this field going and have their own standards. They feel they are losing ground with the public because students coming out of school aren't as accomplished at basic skills. I agree. That's why we should get away from hours and look at mastering skill levels.
All these aspects are being looked at by the MTBOK. We will see.
Gloria Coppola said:I agree with Laura. The more I learn...the less I know. I just returned from teaching a training and the neighboring state is NOT regulated or required to take Ce's...so most of them Don't. I also had a student in the class who is required in her state but only takes what is required and does see it as a burden for the most part.
I am an eternal student. This field opens so many doorways/gateways......It's fascinating and fun.
I love learning new techniques, skills, ideas, stretching myself, meeting new people and on and on!
As for a basic program Mike - I personally feel it should be a minimum of 1,000 hrs. Similar to how Florida or NYS is setting things up and Canada started. Our field has so many aspects and yes many can be done as continuing education. However, I feel key components are missing! I also feel students do not get enough practice of skilled practitioners who can have valuable feedback and make sure the basics they are learning are done correctly!
I am so opposed to 6 month trainings and I do make it known!!! There is just NOT enough time to turn out a quality therapist in my opinion. I had a massage school . I saw the results with a 12 month vs. a 6 month program. The stress is too high for everyone involved. Lots of details don't get addessed and the "crunch" to get it all done leaves people overwhelmed. Often students fly by and hope they pass.
Ok, enough for tonight. ;)
Laura Allen said:You're dead on the money about continuing education and work experience. School is just basic training. I am appalled at the therapists who view continuing education as some sort of burden they have to bear, and I hear that all the time. I've had people tell me they know everything they need to know and that continuing education is just a money racket for massage boards.
The more I think I know, the more I find out I don't know squat. There are some brilliant people on these pages that are so far above what I ever hope to be. And I'm not saying that lightly, because I've managed to have a few good accomplishments of my own.
I have been fortunate to take a lot of continuing education, and I have way over the hours I need for every renewal period. I want to find things that inspire me--classes that make me go, "hmmm, I should be doing that." I seek out classes that give me new ways to help clients, new ways to improve my business skills, new ways of thinking. I'm just an old dog trying to learn new tricks, and I look forward to learning them and sharing them with others. It's not a burden. It's a privilege.
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Permalink Reply by Shawn Maria Brinza on
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I came from a 600 hour requirement school and I was released into the world filled to the gills with information about so many modalities, enthusiasm about being free to learn about anything I wanted, confidence from those 8 months of training. We practiced and recieved massage every single day. We had out-reaches every weekend. We left prepared... but knowing that our education was just beginning. The problem was the cost of the classes that I wanted to take. Being a single mother of 3. The World Massage Festival has made a big difference to people who needed a break in overall cost. Lets face it, most 2 day seminars are around $275. than if its out of town you have hotel and food. Now if you only make 1500. per month and it takes 1200 to run your house, it doesn't work..Mike Hinkle has put together a festival and shown the entire profession how it can be done at a reasonable cost to us. Associations PLEASE TAKE NOTES.....Those who have paved their ways in life and can afford to pay, bless them but lets not make it hard for the loving caring souls who have not had such financial blessing...
I have only been in this fabulous profession for 5 years. I too find that at renewal time I have way over the amount of credits needed. With the exception of course, ethics, law,,,,,those I usually have to refresh a bit...BUT, my point here is that some teachers and / or curriculums infuse the true joys of our work. In taking the healing intent and spiritual linage out of the school curriculum, I am not speaking religion here but truth about the powers of intent. It seems in many cases health care professionals are all about the money.. not healing.
Making the basic program 2000 hours wont help if we arent teaching our students to love learning what it is that we all do... Learning, expressing through touch
Being able to move across the country and support my journey as I go with massage has been and is a dream for me..To touch, teach and expand the universe one person at a time. Just think how much more sharing of knowledge from state to state. So many who have never had a massage might be exposed, or introduced to something new... All of us vote away our rights every day by making things so complicated... if we could shed the great american way of making 100 new laws to cover one small topic.
KEEP IT SIMPLE, KEEP IT INEXPENSIVE, Please, this could be quite simple. Resiprocity, can't spell it but I like the sound of it...
I would like to be able to travel from place to place and legally massage as I go... why not.
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Permalink Reply by Holly Lynn Donaldson on
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I think everyone made some really good points. I agree with the fact that CEUs are often way too expensive for the majority of therapists to afford. I being one of those people can completely understand. There are so many modalities that I would love to sink right into and take one after another. Unfortunately, it was a little more difficult for me because I was also going through college. Not only do I want to increase my knowledge as a massage therapist I also want to increase my overall education to maybe have more basic knowledge as a healthcare professional. I have recently been looking into different modalities that I have always been interested in and never had the chance to get into. It is beyond my belief the expenses involved in some of these classes. Not only do most of the classes rarely come close to where I live, they also cost over 500 dollars a piece. I have always considered myself to be a professional student because I love learning new things that could potentially help myself, my clients, or my loved ones. It would be nice if continuing education was a little more accessible at a reasonable expense. This is in no way preventing me from attempting to widen my skills. I just think it would make it a little easier for everyone; especially for entry level therapists who are not making enough to live and broaden their horizons. Or even for a long term therapist who wants to expand their skills, but haven't had the adequate income or time to spare to get away for a week.
I agree that school was the foundation for skills. I can just hope that CEUs become more available and affordable for the upcoming generations. Potential is out there, and it is up to all of us to show the world that our profession cares about something more than money. We want to help people, and we want others to want us to help.
So here is to optimism...
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Holly
I am willing to come to your area to teach. You can Host one of my classes. Host receive the Class for FREE (Is that affordable?) I keep my pricing reasonable, in my opinion compared to some of the "BIG GUYS". If you want to consider this option, contact me at massageproce@gmail.com and i can fill you in on more details. Gloria
Holly Lynn Donaldson said:I think everyone made some really good points. I agree with the fact that CEUs are often way too expensive for the majority of therapists to afford. I being one of those people can completely understand. There are so many modalities that I would love to sink right into and take one after another. Unfortunately, it was a little more difficult for me because I was also going through college. Not only do I want to increase my knowledge as a massage therapist I also want to increase my overall education to maybe have more basic knowledge as a healthcare professional. I have recently been looking into different modalities that I have always been interested in and never had the chance to get into. It is beyond my belief the expenses involved in some of these classes. Not only do most of the classes rarely come close to where I live, they also cost over 500 dollars a piece. I have always considered myself to be a professional student because I love learning new things that could potentially help myself, my clients, or my loved ones. It would be nice if continuing education was a little more accessible at a reasonable expense. This is in no way preventing me from attempting to widen my skills. I just think it would make it a little easier for everyone; especially for entry level therapists who are not making enough to live and broaden their horizons. Or even for a long term therapist who wants to expand their skills, but haven't had the adequate income or time to spare to get away for a week.
I agree that school was the foundation for skills. I can just hope that CEUs become more available and affordable for the upcoming generations. Potential is out there, and it is up to all of us to show the world that our profession cares about something more than money. We want to help people, and we want others to want us to help.
So here is to optimism...
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Shawn
Thanks for your input and I am glad you mentioned your training was 8 months.
My argument Mike, was that these 6 month programs don't give the time for students to absorb most of what they need to 'master' their basic training. I personally hate them!
Yes, perhaps the cost might be a little higher. However, in listening to people complain about the pricing for continuing education and not being able to 'afford' it because it usually requires travel expenses too. I don't feel the slightly higher pricing is necessarily a bad idea. Many individuals are also receiving grant monies, loans etc, that weren't available many years ago.
I personally would want the 'better' education, more informed, more hands on practice etc. I have listened to alot of students post trainings that were shorter and Most of them did complain and wish they had more time to practice and get the confidence they lacked. It's like choosing a home study course vs. a university in a sense.
I feel the more we decrease the time/hours and keep it so simple , personally it is a disservice to all of us.
I feel this is a health care profession and health care professionals have much more extensive training.
I have seen even spa therapists not know how to handle problems, ailments etc., and cause harm.
I want my students to be confident, knowledgeable, skilled and prepared.
I also love Shawns comment about the intent of healing. This is so true. Many "tech" schools do not even address this aspect.
Just my feelings of course!
Shawn Maria Brinza said:I came from a 600 hour requirement school and I was released into the world filled to the gills with information about so many modalities, enthusiasm about being free to learn about anything I wanted, confidence from those 8 months of training. We practiced and recieved massage every single day. We had out-reaches every weekend. We left prepared... but knowing that our education was just beginning. The problem was the cost of the classes that I wanted to take. Being a single mother of 3. The World Massage Festival has made a big difference to people who needed a break in overall cost. Lets face it, most 2 day seminars are around $275. than if its out of town you have hotel and food. Now if you only make 1500. per month and it takes 1200 to run your house, it doesn't work..Mike Hinkle has put together a festival and shown the entire profession how it can be done at a reasonable cost to us. Associations PLEASE TAKE NOTES.....Those who have paved their ways in life and can afford to pay, bless them but lets not make it hard for the loving caring souls who have not had such financial blessing...
I have only been in this fabulous profession for 5 years. I too find that at renewal time I have way over the amount of credits needed. With the exception of course, ethics, law,,,,,those I usually have to refresh a bit...BUT, my point here is that some teachers and / or curriculums infuse the true joys of our work. In taking the healing intent and spiritual linage out of the school curriculum, I am not speaking religion here but truth about the powers of intent. It seems in many cases health care professionals are all about the money.. not healing.
Making the basic program 2000 hours wont help if we arent teaching our students to love learning what it is that we all do... Learning, expressing through touch
Being able to move across the country and support my journey as I go with massage has been and is a dream for me..To touch, teach and expand the universe one person at a time. Just think how much more sharing of knowledge from state to state. So many who have never had a massage might be exposed, or introduced to something new... All of us vote away our rights every day by making things so complicated... if we could shed the great american way of making 100 new laws to cover one small topic.
KEEP IT SIMPLE, KEEP IT INEXPENSIVE, Please, this could be quite simple. Resiprocity, can't spell it but I like the sound of it...
I would like to be able to travel from place to place and legally massage as I go... why not.
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