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Skeptical about Energy Work
Folks -
There previously was a discussion on this site in which a skeptical attitude toward energy work was being discussed, but that discussion eventually got deleted. The reason seems to be that it was judged not to belong in the location where it was taking place, which was inside one of the energy work groups.
I was the person who introduced the skepticism to the discussion. Some people did not appreciate that, but others did. Given how many participants there are on this site, and how many threads and groups are dedicated to discussing energy work with no skepticism, I thought maybe it was time to open a discussion where such skepticism is invited and welcomed.
I look forward to seeing how this discussion might develop. Is there interest?
-CM
There previously was a discussion on this site in which a skeptical attitude toward energy work was being discussed, but that discussion eventually got deleted. The reason seems to be that it was judged not to belong in the location where it was taking place, which was inside one of the energy work groups.
I was the person who introduced the skepticism to the discussion. Some people did not appreciate that, but others did. Given how many participants there are on this site, and how many threads and groups are dedicated to discussing energy work with no skepticism, I thought maybe it was time to open a discussion where such skepticism is invited and welcomed.
I look forward to seeing how this discussion might develop. Is there interest?
-CM
Views: 3110
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Christopher A. Moyer on
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Chris - one of the questions I have with the limb in a box is: Is there not a chance that the introduction of a mega-blinding tool like a box might bring in the potential for a conform in itself? Or is that just nuts?
Sure, it could. This is definitely what energy work folks would say after the fact, if the trial found nothing!
There could be other ways - different screen materials, shade the person's eyes, etc. It would be important to get the participating energy work folks to agree to the conditions ahead of time.
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You're kidding me; wounding a participant passes current IRB?
Sure. Small wounds, performed under controlled conditions to minimize infection. How do you think they study whether or not something like Neosporin works?
I have a student who goes WAY further than this. Each summer, he signs up for experimental drug trials. He gets paid $1500 or more to stay in the same facility all weekend and take experimental drugs that no human has ever taken before. Sooner or later, someone has to be the first one! I wouldn't do it.
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Permalink Reply by Robin Byler Thomas on
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Hmmmm, gives me all kinds of ideas for new studies; ha, ha, ha.
Christopher A. Moyer said:You're kidding me; wounding a participant passes current IRB?
Sure. Small wounds, performed under controlled conditions to minimize infection. How do you think they study whether or not something like Neosporin works?
I have a student who goes WAY further than this. Each summer, he signs up for experimental drug trials. He gets paid $1500 or more to stay in the same facility all weekend and take experimental drugs that no human has ever taken before. Sooner or later, someone has to be the first one! I wouldn't do it.
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Thanks for posting the Aickin articles again, Robin.
I just had a look at them. They have a few interesting things in them, but there certainly isn't anything in there that revolutionizes the approach to studying cause and effect.
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Danada; what do you find interesting about them Christopher?
Christopher A. Moyer said:Thanks for posting the Aickin articles again, Robin.
I just had a look at them. They have a few interesting things in them, but there certainly isn't anything in there that revolutionizes the approach to studying cause and effect.
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A side note - when I started this thread, I didn't know if there would be any interest in it, and when the very first post expressed dismay that the subject was even being brought up again (go back and see!), I thought maybe it would just die off.
But as you can plainly see, it is one of the longest and most active threads on this site. Thanks to all of you for your participation and your intellectual challenges.
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Danada? What does that mean?
It's interesting that someone has examined, statistically, how one might detemine if more research is needed following a pilot study.
FWIW, I'm of the opinion that one should try to avoid doing pilot studies. Test the hypothesis at adequate power, or don't.
I recognize that pilot studies are sometimes necessary when a condition is rare, a treatment is risky, or if one wants to collect a little bit of data to support a grant application. :) But everyone else should avoid them. They don't, though, because most people like to be able to say "more research is needed," even when it almost certainly isn't.
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Yes, and as it's been pointed out recently by Keith, discussion around energy work has come up for a very long time. Doesn't that in itself give you cause for pause?
Christopher A. Moyer said:A side note - when I started this thread, I didn't know if there would be any interest in it, and when the very first post expressed dismay that the subject was even being brought up again (go back and see!), I thought maybe it would just die off.
But as you can plainly see, it is one of the longest and most active threads on this site. Thanks to all of you for your participation and your intellectual challenges.
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to steal a quote from Chris's "External Validity" paper WHO CARES?
I am only interested in the actual outcome for the client. It matters not if the energy is real or imagined. It only matters if the practice of it enhances healing.
I follow this, and I've been in this situation as a (psycho)therapist. When the patient is the main concern, I'm going to do what works, even if I don't know why it works. I get this.
Nevertheless, there comes a point where we need to know more. What if I want to make it work better? What if I want to know when, or for whom, "it" works? What if there is risk associated with some aspect of "it"? In these cases, it helps to learn what "it" is, or what its components are and which part(s) is/are at work.
If we are looking for outcome based results, it shouldn't be necessary to be less than transparent to the client....This is a real world testing.
I get this too. The problem is, there are all kinds of things that will appear to work under these conditions that do not actually work at all. Animal magnestism is one example,and one that is over 200 years old.
If a person has a condition, we do treatment, and the person is better after the treatment, we cannot be sure that the change was due to treatment. This is surprising to some folks, but it is true. The person might have gotten better due to the passage of time (happens all the time, after all), or due to attention (which may be just fine in the real world clinical setting, I understand), or even due to a difficult to explain but well understood measurement phenomenon known as regression to the mean. These, and other nontreatment explanations, can make it appear that a treatment works even when the treatment could not possibly have been effective. Thankfully, a well designed experiment can address all of these confounds. That's why we use them and value them above all other research designs. Whenever it is possible to do an experiment, that is what we do, because nothing is better.
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Yes, and as it's been pointed out recently by Keith, discussion around energy work has come up for a very long time. Doesn't that in itself give you cause for pause?
In what way? I don't think I understand what you are saying.
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Permalink Reply by Vlad on
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It hit 200 !!!!
This is officially a MEGATHREAD.
To celebrate this I think we all should have a chair boogie and listen to a song that might be applicable.....Freddie rocked.
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People have been, and are still, very interested in energy work; and NO ONE'S TESTING IT SUFFICIENTLY. We've heard from many experienced and skilled professional MT's on this site who attest to it's effectiveness.
Maybe you could help Laura with her design, since she's able and willing, and recall the suggestions we've made, and let's see what happens.
Freddie does rock!
Danada is Spanish, and is as Rick interpreted.
Christopher A. Moyer said:Yes, and as it's been pointed out recently by Keith, discussion around energy work has come up for a very long time. Doesn't that in itself give you cause for pause?
In what way? I don't think I understand what you are saying.
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