massage and bodywork professionals
a community of practitioners
The Massage Therapy Alliance of America - A New Alliance For Therapists!
We are so excited for Massage Therapists!!! But, instead of re-explaining it here, go to the source at http://www.mtaamassage.org
Some of the debate that will take place on this topic will be heated. If opposing sides discussing issues is not your cup of tea, just visit the website. FYI!
Views: 521
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Choice Kinchen on
-
Alexei, there you go again. You don't know me. If you did you would know the word "insecure" doesn't apply to me. And saying things like, "It seems simple enough." and "I think the fact that you feel insulted by my use of the rhetorical device, "what are people afraid of?" reveals a high level of insecurity." really does not further the discussion we're having in any way.
I can't and won't assume for others but I don't see a problem with having higher standards for therapists wanting to enter our profession. I've heard numerous horror stories from current clients who used to go to the chains like ME or even to private therapists who had no clue as to what they were doing. They ended up either hurting their clients or they passed along bogus information on different treatments. While I know and understand that massage therapy is a healer vocation, even a calling, but that still doesn't mean we can't hold therapists to standards so that, at the very least, they don't hurt the hell out of their clients. How is that healing the world? You want the public to get a better understanding of what our profession is all about? Get rid of people that don't know what they're doing. Or set a standard so they have to learn what they're doing or get out.
I'm betting that there are more than a few of us who believe this way.
-
Permalink Reply by Alexei Levine on
-
Choice,
I don't think the situation is as bad as you portray it. I hear far more horror stories about MD's, Attorneys, and Chiropractors, than I do about Massage Therapists.
Choice Kinchen said:Alexei, there you go again. You don't know me. If you did you would know the word "insecure" doesn't apply to me. And saying things like, "It seems simple enough." and "I think the fact that you feel insulted by my use of the rhetorical device, "what are people afraid of?" reveals a high level of insecurity." really does not further the discussion we're having in any way.
I can't and won't assume for others but I don't see a problem with having higher standards for therapists wanting to enter our profession. I've heard numerous horror stories from current clients who used to go to the chains like ME or even to private therapists who had no clue as to what they were doing. They ended up either hurting their clients or they passed along bogus information on different treatments. While I know and understand that massage therapy is a healer vocation, even a calling, but that still doesn't mean we can't hold therapists to standards so that, at the very least, they don't hurt the hell out of their clients. How is that healing the world? You want the public to get a better understanding of what our profession is all about? Get rid of people that don't know what they're doing. Or set a standard so they have to learn what they're doing or get out.
I'm betting that there are more than a few of us who believe this way.
-
Permalink Reply by Mike Hinkle on
-
Hi Ravensara,
I am not a professional organization. I am Mike Hinkle. I am organizing an Alliance to try and make the profession better. I asked for information online and most did not hesitate as this informaton is out there. I am trying to keep cost down and still do not see the need to "protect" info that people have mostly on their websites already.
I told everyone when I started that I was not going to run the MTAA as so many are aluding to. I will form it to where it gives therapists the most control they will have in any Alliance of therapists. I do not have the money to roll this out in a professional manner. Nor do I feel that the pomp and circumstance is needed.
That will be up to those that are elected to gain membership. Will the way I did it make it harder on them? Probably, but after going through this week, I remember why I decided not to list the veteran volunteers that steped up to help with the bylaws.
Maybe some will understand that too.
-
-
I agree Alexei! I think it is being blown out of proportion about this. levine said:
Choice,
I don't think the situation is as bad as you portray it. I hear far more horror stories about MD's, Attorneys, and Chiropractors, than I do about Massage Therapists.
Choice Kinchen said:Alexei, there you go again. You don't know me. If you did you would know the word "insecure" doesn't apply to me. And saying things like, "It seems simple enough." and "I think the fact that you feel insulted by my use of the rhetorical device, "what are people afraid of?" reveals a high level of insecurity." really does not further the discussion we're having in any way.
I can't and won't assume for others but I don't see a problem with having higher standards for therapists wanting to enter our profession. I've heard numerous horror stories from current clients who used to go to the chains like ME or even to private therapists who had no clue as to what they were doing. They ended up either hurting their clients or they passed along bogus information on different treatments. While I know and understand that massage therapy is a healer vocation, even a calling, but that still doesn't mean we can't hold therapists to standards so that, at the very least, they don't hurt the hell out of their clients. How is that healing the world? You want the public to get a better understanding of what our profession is all about? Get rid of people that don't know what they're doing. Or set a standard so they have to learn what they're doing or get out.
I'm betting that there are more than a few of us who believe this way.
-
Permalink Reply by Vlad on
-
I'm coming out of lurkdom to ask some questions only:
When you say it's for massage therapists by massage therapists, does that include MT teachers?
Are your "veterans" teachers or practitioners?
On your site you have a list of issues that you regard as things that are of importance to MTs, which I presume are the main things that this new alliance will address:
- I just want to be left alone to massage. (This is an issue? Really? Who isn't left alone?)
- There are too many rules I don't know about. (Well, there's this thing called the internet where you can get a list of rules if you weren't aware of them and you should have been shown where to find them in your schooling)
- I don't want to go to meetings. (Who is forcing you to go to meetings?)
- No politics. I can't argue. I hate it. (OK - it's a problem, most therapists don't like the bickering. Is throwing another org into the mix the answer?)
- I was doing this before all these laws.(And your point is????)
- Nobody will listen. (Well, if you can't be bothered going to meetings and getting involved in the orgs that already exist, then who are you trying to get to listen to you? Also, there's facebook and online forums where you can shout as much as you want, lovelies. The internet is a good thing. You can even put feelers out to see if another organization is needed before launching one)
- I don't want to be numbered. I don't do medical massage.(I don't know what that first sentence means, but as far as medical massage goes, neither do I. No one is forcing anyone to do that and I don't think anyone ever will be forced to do that.)
- Why can't we close down lousy schools? (Because it's the nature of vocational schools. Lack of educational standards is a problem , but hopefully the new alliance for MT educators will help with that one.)
- How can schools keep making outlandish promises of income? (How can we teach people to question everything that they're told, including having realistic expectations would be a much better question - and that includes everything that they're taught at massage schools, including "Can you explain the claims that you are making about crystal therapy in more detail and show me some studies that show it works?")
- I would sell retail at my establishment if someone would teach me how.(There isn't info on this on the internet? You're waiting on someone holding your hand to show you how? Wow - maybe you should work for someone else)
- There are too many therapists. (and if we keep things the way they are, there will be more, but you seem to favor the free market system, Mike, so plenty will fail too.).
- Why isn't there enough research yet? (In what? Crystal therapy? Being aware of what the MTF is doing and getting accustomed to google scholar would be a good idea - you might get some idea of how much research has been done)
- I want portability between states. (Yep. this one actually is a good point. Don't we all? I think there's this thing called "politics" that might help with that one, but then the Alliance won't have any politics in it, will it? - At least that's what you're claiming)
Mike, are you really expecting to draw people in with that list?
Also, since there has been such a history of bickering between orgs in the MT world, how can you presume that this org won't overstep what either local chapters or the other orgs are trying to fix?
I've got to admit that I thought "It's the WMF Alliance" when I first saw this. Why don't you just call it that instead? Since you're going ahead with this no matter what people think, it would make it sound what it really is. Making out that it has been formed independent from the WMF just smacks of sneaky tactics, Mike.
I hope you'll consider doing that at least.
I'm back to lurkdom.
- I just want to be left alone to massage. (This is an issue? Really? Who isn't left alone?)
-
-
Alexei....this isn't about MD's attorneys and chiropractors. It's about massage therapists. What happens in other professions does not concern me right at this moment. What happens in mine does. You seem to be skirting the issues too.
Welcome back Vlad to the land of foggy notions where sense means nothing and nothing makes sense.
-
Permalink Reply by Erica Olson on
-
Well, except for this, perhaps:
About the Alliance:
The Massage Therapy Alliance of America is a voice, advocate and resource for massage therapists. It has been created to serve the entire sector - from student to veteran therapist.or this bit:
. . . BY massage therapists, FOR massage therapists. Its mission is to serve as a voice, advocate and resource for the massage community, regardless of affiliation.
E.
Alexei Levine said:
That's exactly it Christopher, Mike has not claimed to be trying represent the entire profession,
-
-
Whoops! Ad hominem. Debate FAIL.
E.
Mike Hinkle said:Alexei,
Christopher is trying to draw AMTA and ABMP into the conversation to split people. He is trying to put us on their level when that is not our intent. He has always used deception to try and affect. We are not an association. We will take no one from AMTA or ABMP. Hopefully, we will bring the 100,000 plus therapists into the structured field and many will join these Associations. But this is the way he works. Even speaking to him, he sets up false precepts and builds from there. So I knew he would be coming and our program is for massage therapists and I am not wasting time on him, when he approaches with the attitude he entered the discussion with.
He does this on this site and many folk have left because of him as well. He helps few and hurts many. He can claim that it is so I can make money all he wants. People that do participate in my events know I keep the costs down to a minimum.
Anyone doubting this simply has to go to http://www.worldmassagefestival.com/2011/compare.html and see who keeps things as low as possible and gives away more than anyone. The people standing up against this on this site have argued with me on most issues. They don't wish to help they are trying to hinder as most, I think will see. It started out with a picture was not proper and now Christopher is skirting allegations. This is their way. Christopher is a trouble maker. He will always be. He has 10 modalities that he wishes to see quashed because they can not be explained to his satisfaction. He will fail. This is an effort to stop us from organizing. And they have already failed. Fighting us will make the ranks grow and set their determination to go against what he represents but it is his choice to make.
We will go on. There will be many challenges ahead! We will make it and make a positive difference
<deletia>
-
-
. . . which is telling, given that he simply condensed and restated concerns that have been voiced by others on this thread.
E.
Mike Hinkle said:
He is right I ignore things that really I can't control. And that is him.
-
Permalink Reply by Marilyn St.John on
-
I'm reading all this with fascination. There are several things I take issue with as well, which have already been addressed and left hanging. What puzzles me though, is why there are massage therapists practicing who seem to believe "pushing for more technical standards" and seeking "external validation" are BAD things to aspire to. There are going to always be areas where professions cross paths, but if for example I wanted to be a PT, I'd get that education ~ but the PTA'sI know do exactly the same work I do and vice versa. I sincerely hope the "entry level" phase for any therapist IS, in fact, a phase...I've had more than my share of horrible massages lately because the standards set by many massage schools seems to be lacking, and I'm talking about three states, not just mine. I do not believe the answer lies in dumbing it down. Besides, knowledge is power--think about that for a minute while wearing the "heal the world" hat, it will fit even better.
Just for the record, I personally appreciate the objective observations of Christopher. During the year he has been lurking here, I have learned to look more objectively at what I do as an MT and I'm a better MT because of it.
-
-
Choice,
I think that exaggerating the incidence of massage therapists behaving badly is preying on peoples fears. We don't need higher standards, there's no problem with the standards, it's just that some established Massage Therapists want to limit the number of incoming therapists in the misguided notion that they will lose business to newcomers. It's called "standards creep" and it happens in most professions.
Choice Kinchen said:Alexei....this isn't about MD's attorneys and chiropractors. It's about massage therapists. What happens in other professions does not concern me right at this moment. What happens in mine does. You seem to be skirting the issues too.
Welcome back Vlad to the land of foggy notions where sense means nothing and nothing makes sense.
-
-
*nod* Well summarized, Ravensara.
E.
Ravensara Travillian said:It is ironic that such a debate is taking place on a site called "massageprofessionals", since the response from the MTAA side is anything but professional.
A truly professional organization would reach out to address concerns raised in a civil manner by potential members, rather than accusing the questioners of having trust issues and claiming to read their minds about what their motivations are.
A truly professional organization would take the appearance of conflict of interest seriously, and would take steps to address that perceived or real conflict, rather than attacking the messenger.
A truly professional organization would not be so secretive about its operations, and would not attack people who inquire about that secrecy.
A truly professional organization would respect its potential members enough to take the steps to protect their confidential information from risk of theft, rather than just stating that it cannot be arsed to do so.
Those are just four reasons why I will not be joining this organization. Others have been raised, and left unaddressed, on this thread as well.
Of course, Mike, you are perfectly free to organize and run MTAA as you see fit. But if you are going to treat potential members with perfectly reasonable questions in such an unprofessional way, as well as representing yourself as speaking for all of massage therapy, then I want to go on record publicly as saying you do not speak for my massage therapy.
© 2024 Created by ABMP.
Powered by
