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The Massage Therapy Alliance of America - A New Alliance For Therapists!
We are so excited for Massage Therapists!!! But, instead of re-explaining it here, go to the source at http://www.mtaamassage.org
Some of the debate that will take place on this topic will be heated. If opposing sides discussing issues is not your cup of tea, just visit the website. FYI!
Views: 518
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Erica Olson on
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WTF? "Bad companies with these problems"? There's no problem, unless you consider transparency to be a problem. IMO, it's a great way to avoid litigation and accusations of corruption, particularly where funding is concerned.
The only reason I included my experience with non-profits was because you came off as pretty condescending to Bianca when she stated her concerns. You say "this is the way it happens," and I'm calling shenanigans, because, in my experience, no, this is NOT the way it happens--at least, not when it's done right.
As for criteria for selecting the BOD, my apologies, I misspoke. Rather than the BOD, I was referring to the current Leadership Team.
. . . although I do find it problematic that BOD applicants are expected to know which position they want to run for without even knowing what the job description is.
E.
Mike Hinkle said:Sorry, you chose bad companies with these problems.
"Under no circumstances is there any secretiveness about the identity of the BOD nor the criteria for choosing them."
Could not agree more. There is no BOD and the criteria for choosing them is at http://www.mtaamassage.org
I feel the mission statement is broad enough to allow the Alliance to do, as it sees needed.
Erica Olson said:*raises hand* I'm on the BOD for two local non-profits, both relatively young, and volunteer with a third. One has, in the last year or so, shifted from operating under a general 501(c)3 license via a community foundation to operating under its own recognizance. The other has explored various avenues about going on its own or shifting their umbrella organization.
Under no circumstances is there any secretiveness about the identity of the BOD nor the criteria for choosing them. In fact, as am I preparing to step down from one board in lieu of becoming its employee, openness and transparency have been key issues. I have also served on a city-funded grant application board for non-profits; again, transparency has been an up-front Must, not a "we'll get around to it as soon as we figure it out."
I agree that it is not uncommon for new organizations (including both for-profit and not-for-profit) to develop a crisis of identity multiple times along their establishment, but they generally have a cohesive mission statement before going public. In addition, I have never seen someone accused of having "trust issues" for simply asking clarifying questions about an organization, its identity, or its guiding members.
E.
Mike Hinkle said:
Hi Bianca,
Have you ever created a non-profit? This is the way it happens. The Alliance for Massage Therapy Education was recently formed and it was done the same way. The program has been defined as well as any are when they start. As with massage you start with intent and then create. If you haven't understood the intent, I'm sorry, "we're going to improve massage as best we can". No crystal ball to tell exacts, and boards aren't real exact anywys, but this is the method in which these events happen. You have an idea, gather folks and vote. That's how they form and how we are going to also. Thanks!
Bianca Berrios said:Mike, I have to say it boggles my mind that a new organization is spreading the word for members for a group that, "hasn't been identifed yet or voted upon, are going to do"...????<deletia>
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Permalink Reply by Mike Hinkle on
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Hi Lisa,
I couldn't hack into anything. I typed your name into a search engine and got your information that easy. Hacking is illegal.
I started out back in 1997 building websites for people for $25 for life, because geeks were charging over $1000 a year for websites. Many we built for free. Prices came down. People were able to get a site finally. I still have one from back then with me. I have always tried to save folks money and them get more for their money.
In Pensacola as I was graduating, my fellow students were complaining of no openings in the area and what would they do for work. I built a four room facility and they had a place to work. It grew to 8 rooms and 52 therapists on call.
Therapists were complaining about lack of education and the distance to big events, The World Massage Festival was born. Over 290 hours of education now creates the single largest amount of hours out there for the least money. Their education, food and lodging all at one price, lower than just their registration for the other. No one else comes close to this.
I look around, create symposiums to ask folks about their careers and what can help. They say we need to make changes and improvements. Insurance carriers/Associations will not tackle many of their situations, so I am creating the Alliance, Am I the "perfect person" to do this, hardly. That's why I will not be taking office. I am not a committee type person. I am a tenacious person that will never quit until the goal is reached, I do not handle negative situations well. In my developement I was a catcher. It is bred into my being to meet force with force. I do not handle it well, I know. When I go to help others, I won't be stopped. So, I won't be there on the BOD. I will build it. Thus my philosophy and credo "The Bridgebuilder".
Many have tried, to gain our emails. We have never sold an email address. We are protective of our people and their information they give us or we would not be here.
I know there will be forces against this effort. If it were free forever, it would be the same. I think I have done the right thing by getting it out there as quickly as possible. This will allow therapists as much time as possible to organize their travel plans and save funds. If I waited sless would be able to make it.
The way I do things and the way I word things will not please all, I'm sorry. I am too direct at times. But, this Alliance is real, coming and will make a huge difference for therapists. I will try to be softer and gentler with my statements. My passion gets in the way. But what I saw was "lousy website. wrong pic/logo, demand of names, telling people not to give out info/sign up, challenging of facts" and it just seemed all negative. Again, I do not handle negative things well. I concentrate on positive and move forward.
I hope this explain my situation better. I made the statement you aluuded to at the beginning because I didn't know what else to say. Some folks will accept, some will check and then join or not and some will scoff and ignore and some will feel threatened and try to defeat it. The statement basically covers everyone of these choices.
Like I said way back at the beginning I hope everyone joins! Many will and the Alliance will be a tremendous influence in the profession. I think they will make a difference.
Lisa said:If it bothers anyone this way, I guess they won't join. They'll wait for the board to form, hire a website designer, attain a secure website and certificate and then they can put their information into a secure site with them. It will be the same knowledge that is already out there, but they'll feel better.
It's comments like this that continue to make my neck hairs curl!!! Can you be any more condescending? Way to treat colleagues with respect. We are asking professional questions and you are throwing snide remarks instead of just answering them.
Perhaps at some point in this discussion you should have said "hey maybe I was too quick in putting the Alliance out there" or "hey you guys have valid points, it'd be great to see some of you on the board", or any number of other comments that would have elicited a spirit of openness and cooperation. But instead, you get defensive, you scoot around clear cut questions, and then when you don't have an answer that satisfies, you go for the jugular. That is NOT the kind of attitude I want representing me.
I have questioned, from day one on this site, the political undertones that are here. But this tops it all. This is NOT an alliance for the therapists by the therapists. this is ANOTHER venture of YOURS. Every time you respond, it's all about YOU. YOUR symposiums. YOUR festival. YOUR ideas. YOUR by-laws. I have been participating in this discussion with the hopes of THE alliance being something good for OUR profession, but it's YOUR responses that have continually made me disillusioned at the whole thing. Those that know me will vouch when I say, it takes a LOT to get me riled on a topic. But I assure you of this...when I am riled I am vocal. And this is something that I hope all those following the discussion will learn from in that you MUST put thought in the things you join up with.
Let's talk about the vital personal info being requested. It took me two minutes on the net to find out this info on you. So it isn't that personal of info and if you've taken steps to secure it. You failed. Would you like to post it all here?
And since you wanted to go HERE...then let's go here. Erica made a VALID point. It's one thing for ME to voluntarily give out my information. (if you noticed, when I wrote I stated clearly: And I have learned to protect that information to some extent.) But it's another thing for your unsecured site to be hacked into and given my information. Honestly, as I started getting more passionate about this, and starting viewing all your different ventures, what really chapped my ass was that you have a design company in which you charge people to design web sites and marketing materials. That in and of itself doesn't bother me at all. I commend all those that can offer up other products and services but still remain massage-based. It's a smart business decision. I am doing it myself. But as we got more into this discussion, I couldn't help but see ANOTHER conflict of interest in that you alone, will now have information on all those that DON'T have a web site established and it then becomes a perfect, coincidentally, opportunity for you to market your business to them for design. Now granted, that's probably my mind WAY on overdrive. But I've been in marketing for 20 something years. I know the value of listings in marketing a business. Listings like that go for HUNDREDS of dollars. So when I stumbled across this, it became a huge red flag in my brain.
I'm sorry Mike, but the way you have gone about this new venture called an alliance is FLAWED. And as a colleague in the profession, and a business professional, you should be open and willing to recognize this and take feedback, if you truly want this venture to succeed. But instead you have shown yourself to be closed minded and only willing to hear the cheers and ego-stroking accolades. This to me tells me you are not the person to be bringing such a VOICE of OUR profession.
But then again, I'm not a VETERAN of the profession and as you stated "So far as old ideas versus new ideas concerning writing by-laws... I'll stick with veterans and since I am the incorporater, that would be my choice."
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*NOD* This hits the nail on the head.
Rather than creating a whole new organization, why not push for greater advocacy and service amongst the groups that do exist? Looking at the mission statements of both ABMP and AMTA, they sound pretty similar--not only to each other, but to the desired goals of MTAA.
E.
Relax & Rejuvenate said:I see this is a huge waste of time and effort through duplication.
<deletia>
Why does "service" mean holding some elected office. Try "volunteering". Titles and elections are for self-aggrandizement. Volunteers get plenty done, and usually more than elected officials --- just look what church groups can accomplish vs. gov't programs.
1. Therapists lack sales skills. No doubt. A _ _ _ should make this part of the benefit of being ;a member -- on-line education. Not CEU, webinars for anyone to learn what they need to know. THis does not take a new organization.
2. Legislation information to therapists is slow and lacks much detail. Local issue. Why not volunteer to be the legislative liaison for your state chapter of A _ _ _ and keep everyone up to date?
3. Central location for Continuing Education around the US. Therapists should be able to easily find education wherever they are. Do you mean central database? Why not press AMTA/NCBMTB or ABMP to make this part of what they offer members. This is a task for strong administrators, not MTs. CEUs have to be certified by the individual state in most cases, so a "central CEU university" would be impractical. Why doesn't each state chapter of A _ _ _ have a CEU Czar to keep track of it all and spread the word?
4. A new approach to how we deal with the public. (Details will be shown to the new board first, as they are my ideas.) ABMP/AMTA should hire a PR firm
<deletia>
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I sad bad because you said you were considering stepping out.
Job desciptions are being developed by the veteran leadership. If anyone wishes to remove their name from selection, once the descriptions are placed on the site, they can. We will not post anyone's pic or bio running for office until they have read and signed an affirmation of knowledge as to their duties. However, I do wish to find out as many names as possible as to who would like to serve.
ThanksErica Olson said:
WTF? "Bad companies with these problems"? There's no problem, unless you consider transparency to be a problem. IMO, it's a great way to avoid litigation and accusations of corruption, particularly where funding is concerned.
The only reason I included my experience with non-profits was because you came off as pretty condescending to Bianca when she stated her concerns. You say "this is the way it happens," and I'm calling shenanigans, because, in my experience, no, this is NOT the way it happens--at least, not when it's done right.
As for criteria for selecting the BOD, my apologies, I misspoke. Rather than the BOD, I was referring to the current Leadership Team.
. . . although I do find it problematic that BOD applicants are expected to know which position they want to run for without even knowing what the job description is.
E.
Mike Hinkle said:Sorry, you chose bad companies with these problems.
"Under no circumstances is there any secretiveness about the identity of the BOD nor the criteria for choosing them."
Could not agree more. There is no BOD and the criteria for choosing them is at http://www.mtaamassage.org
I feel the mission statement is broad enough to allow the Alliance to do, as it sees needed.
Erica Olson said:*raises hand* I'm on the BOD for two local non-profits, both relatively young, and volunteer with a third. One has, in the last year or so, shifted from operating under a general 501(c)3 license via a community foundation to operating under its own recognizance. The other has explored various avenues about going on its own or shifting their umbrella organization.
Under no circumstances is there any secretiveness about the identity of the BOD nor the criteria for choosing them. In fact, as am I preparing to step down from one board in lieu of becoming its employee, openness and transparency have been key issues. I have also served on a city-funded grant application board for non-profits; again, transparency has been an up-front Must, not a "we'll get around to it as soon as we figure it out."
I agree that it is not uncommon for new organizations (including both for-profit and not-for-profit) to develop a crisis of identity multiple times along their establishment, but they generally have a cohesive mission statement before going public. In addition, I have never seen someone accused of having "trust issues" for simply asking clarifying questions about an organization, its identity, or its guiding members.
E.
Mike Hinkle said:
Hi Bianca,
Have you ever created a non-profit? This is the way it happens. The Alliance for Massage Therapy Education was recently formed and it was done the same way. The program has been defined as well as any are when they start. As with massage you start with intent and then create. If you haven't understood the intent, I'm sorry, "we're going to improve massage as best we can". No crystal ball to tell exacts, and boards aren't real exact anywys, but this is the method in which these events happen. You have an idea, gather folks and vote. That's how they form and how we are going to also. Thanks!
Bianca Berrios said:Mike, I have to say it boggles my mind that a new organization is spreading the word for members for a group that, "hasn't been identifed yet or voted upon, are going to do"...????<deletia>
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Erica, if that's what you wish to do, go ahead. Many of us are going to form the Alliance and have a separate voice to address issues Associations are not. It will not hurt having more people working on similar goals. We are all so different, there should be and now will be more choices.
Erica Olson said:*NOD* This hits the nail on the head.
Rather than creating a whole new organization, why not push for greater advocacy and service amongst the groups that do exist? Looking at the mission statements of both ABMP and AMTA, they sound pretty similar--not only to each other, but to the desired goals of MTAA.
E.
Relax & Rejuvenate said:I see this is a huge waste of time and effort through duplication.
<deletia>
Why does "service" mean holding some elected office. Try "volunteering". Titles and elections are for self-aggrandizement. Volunteers get plenty done, and usually more than elected officials --- just look what church groups can accomplish vs. gov't programs.
1. Therapists lack sales skills. No doubt. A _ _ _ should make this part of the benefit of being ;a member -- on-line education. Not CEU, webinars for anyone to learn what they need to know. THis does not take a new organization.
2. Legislation information to therapists is slow and lacks much detail. Local issue. Why not volunteer to be the legislative liaison for your state chapter of A _ _ _ and keep everyone up to date?
3. Central location for Continuing Education around the US. Therapists should be able to easily find education wherever they are. Do you mean central database? Why not press AMTA/NCBMTB or ABMP to make this part of what they offer members. This is a task for strong administrators, not MTs. CEUs have to be certified by the individual state in most cases, so a "central CEU university" would be impractical. Why doesn't each state chapter of A _ _ _ have a CEU Czar to keep track of it all and spread the word?
4. A new approach to how we deal with the public. (Details will be shown to the new board first, as they are my ideas.) ABMP/AMTA should hire a PR firm
<deletia>
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Idnetity theft is illegal, but it happens. You may be ethically protective of your members, but you are not taking the necessary precautions you could be. By having the contact information submission page be an unsecured one, you are putting your members at greater risk.
YOU might not hack into anything, but that doesn't stop SOMEONE ELSE from doing so, particularly when there is a distinct lack of firewalls or other security. YOU might not resell personal/contact information, but there are plenty of people who do . . . and many of those people who do know how to hack. An unsecured website database just makes it easier for them.
E.
Mike Hinkle said:
I couldn't hack into anything. . . .Hacking is illegal.
. . . Many have tried, to gain our emails. We have never sold an email address. We are protective of our people and their information they give us or we would not be here.
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Stepping down off the board to become its employee, not removing myself from involvment with the organization.
Wouldn't it be easier to have people know what they were getting into in the first place, rather than having to go through application and retraction? I understand why you want to have it all in place in time for WMF, but, like Lisa, I think you are putting the cart before the horse. An undertaking of this magnitude needs some serious lead time for development. The 2012 WMF might have been a more appropriate roll-out.
Mike Hinkle said:I sad bad because you said you were considering stepping out.
Job desciptions are being developed by the veteran leadership. If anyone wishes to remove their name from selection, once the descriptions are placed on the site, they can. We will not post anyone's pic or bio running for office until they have read and signed an affirmation of knowledge as to their duties. However, I do wish to find out as many names as possible as to who would like to serve.
Thanks<deletia>
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Uh, I'm not the one trying to start up a whole new organization. My suggestion regarding advocacy was for you.
E.
Mike Hinkle said:Erica, if that's what you wish to do, go ahead. Many of us are going to form the Alliance and have a separate voice to address issues Associations are not. It will not hurt having more people working on similar goals. We are all so different, there should be and now will be more choices.
Erica Olson said:*NOD* This hits the nail on the head.
Rather than creating a whole new organization, why not push for greater advocacy and service amongst the groups that do exist? Looking at the mission statements of both ABMP and AMTA, they sound pretty similar--not only to each other, but to the desired goals of MTAA.
E.
<deletia>
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Permalink Reply by Relax & Rejuvenate on
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Wow.....not even formed and the MTAA discussion already resembles the colorful spats of the NCBTMB / AMTA / Fill in the blank organization.
REason #4543 not to duplicate efforts -- it is clear you are heading down the same path!
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Erica, as I said I built the website free and did not make it a secure server as the info is basically already out there. Yes, I could have gone throught the steps to do all this but decided not to. The information does not sit on my computer, even emails are moved to external drives. But, if this is a hold back, therapists are also allowed to sign up and vote at Festival.
Erica Olson said:Idnetity theft is illegal, but it happens. You may be ethically protective of your members, but you are not taking the necessary precautions you could be. By having the contact information submission page be an unsecured one, you are putting your members at greater risk.
YOU might not hack into anything, but that doesn't stop SOMEONE ELSE from doing so, particularly when there is a distinct lack of firewalls or other security. YOU might not resell personal/contact information, but there are plenty of people who do . . . and many of those people who do know how to hack. An unsecured website database just makes it easier for them.
E.
Mike Hinkle said:
I couldn't hack into anything. . . .Hacking is illegal.
. . . Many have tried, to gain our emails. We have never sold an email address. We are protective of our people and their information they give us or we would not be here.
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I had considered putting it off til 2012. But there are so many coming to Festival this year, I don't know going West into new area would create a larger amount of therapists. I want as many as possible to be able to vote. And we have enough time to get the word out, attain electors and get it done. By next year, hopefully they will be in full stride. The date is set.
Erica Olson said:Stepping down off the board to become its employee, not removing myself from involvment with the organization.
Wouldn't it be easier to have people know what they were getting into in the first place, rather than having to go through application and retraction? I understand why you want to have it all in place in time for WMF, but, like Lisa, I think you are putting the cart before the horse. An undertaking of this magnitude needs some serious lead time for development. The 2012 WMF might have been a more appropriate roll-out.
Mike Hinkle said:I sad bad because you said you were considering stepping out.
Job desciptions are being developed by the veteran leadership. If anyone wishes to remove their name from selection, once the descriptions are placed on the site, they can. We will not post anyone's pic or bio running for office until they have read and signed an affirmation of knowledge as to their duties. However, I do wish to find out as many names as possible as to who would like to serve.
Thanks<deletia>
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Many of these issues go beyond the scope of the Associations. I like having a new Alliance that can address almost any issue we have.
Erica Olson said:Uh, I'm not the one trying to start up a whole new organization. My suggestion regarding advocacy was for you.
E.
Mike Hinkle said:Erica, if that's what you wish to do, go ahead. Many of us are going to form the Alliance and have a separate voice to address issues Associations are not. It will not hurt having more people working on similar goals. We are all so different, there should be and now will be more choices.
Erica Olson said:*NOD* This hits the nail on the head.
Rather than creating a whole new organization, why not push for greater advocacy and service amongst the groups that do exist? Looking at the mission statements of both ABMP and AMTA, they sound pretty similar--not only to each other, but to the desired goals of MTAA.
E.
<deletia>
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