massage and bodywork professionals
a community of practitioners
tips (gratuity)
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Laura Allen on
-
I in fact mentioned that in my post--that in some places it is automatically added on to the bill.
Everyone has a different work situation. There are in fact a number of people running clinics similar to mine right here on this site, and people doing what you do, people working at ME and spas, and everything in between. There are also a lot of therapists on here who are interested in growing their business into something similar to mine; I get emails and questions from them every day. When most people answer a question on these discussions, they are answering from their perspective and how they conduct their business. I am doing the same thing everyone else does.
The leadership of ABMP personally asked me to participate on this website several months before they launched it, because I am known in this profession as an expert on business and marketing. I'm here because they asked me to be, and if my answers offend you, perhaps you can complain to them. In fact, I will be seeing them all at the American Massage Conference this weekend, so I will just be sure to pass it on to them that you don't like my answers.
Angela Lind said:
Laura,
A lot of spas they add gratuity to the check and they don't even ask. Another locations, they don't do it in the check but the receptionists always ask to the client if wants to leave a tip. That is what happens at Massage Envy for example, they know that the therapists are counting with the tip because they only get paid $15/hr. So what I'm trying to say is, are these therapists less professionals because at the facilities they work, they ask to leave a tip to the client?
At a spa I used to work years ago, they didn't even ask, they just add 18% gratuity to the check and the taxes.
I really don't see the difference between a massage therapist giving massage at a spa, and a massage therapist giving massage at a chiropractor's office. The only difference is in the ambiance, but not in the massage itself. Is the same, so why is not appropriate to tip in a medical office and is appropriate to tip in a spa? Why people think that a medical office is "more serious" or "more respectable" than a spa? again: the massage given in the medical office is the same given at a spa. Actually, I would say that is even better the massage given at a spa, because the most of the doctors pay TERRIBLE to the therapists. Just think about it: a massage therapist that is really good,will be working for $15/hr without being able to get tips? When I have received massage at a chiropractor's office, the massages I received were really bad. But I can't expect better because they are paid really bad.
Laura: in all your comments you mention your clinic and how you run your business. Please understand that the way your business is run, does NOT happen in the same way with the most of massage businesses. Your case is the exception to the rule. So I would suggest not giving your business always as an example in every comment you give, because that is not what happen commonly everywhere.
Laura Allen said:Angela,
I don't object to tipping a waitress--but I would be pretty gobsmacked if she came right out and asked for one. I don't mean that to be rude so don't take it that way. A gratuity is a voluntary thing (except in those places where it's automatically added on to your bill) and asking for it takes the "voluntary" out of it and makes it seem like an obligation.
In my clinic, the MTs do everything from massage referred by the chiropractor who works here, to Swedish massage from people seeking relaxation, hot stones, and spa treatments as well. When people ask if they can or should leave a tip, the answer is "never expected, always appreciated."
-
Permalink Reply by Angela Lind on
-
Laura,
I apologize if it sounded offensive, what I'm trying to say is that the way you run your business is not common. Would be great that all massage businesses could be run like yours. I understand that everybody give their opinion from their perspective, I have given mine from the way I work but also I have given opinion of other businesses of how they run it too and how that affect to many therapists. I'm trying to be more objective for our industry in general and not talking about my personal experience only.
I think would be better to discuss topics in the conference like: the discrimination from the health insurance companies to massage therapists and what to do about it, how franchises have affected negatively this industry in general and what to do about it, how to make chiropractors and doctors pay better to massage therapists, how the excessive marketing through groupon, living social, etc of many spas around the country is affecting the value of the massage in the short term and long term and what to do about it, etc.
-
-
Every one of those topics has at least one discussion here, most of them more. If people start commenting on them again, they'll move back to the head of the line. If anyone wants to find previous discussions on any topic, just type it in the site search box and they'll all come up. Discussions are always open to more comment no matter how long they've been on here.There's a big one on Massage Envy started by Ariana Vincent. There seem to be numerous ones about pay, several about insurance billing, and at least one on Groupon.
Massage & Bodywork Magazine, which ABMP graciously allows everyone to read online for free, has an
article about the impact of franchises on the profession.
My regular column in M&B, Business Side, has also addressed many of those topics.
-
-
Of course there are plenty of threads about these topics, especially in "indeed.com" about massage envy. Whatever we discuss here or in any discussion board (Facebook, LinkedIn, etc), they are just opinions that at the end, don't make any relevant change in the industry. We need is something stronger, something that can really change the way health insurance companies treat us, the way the chiropractors/doctors pay us, etc.
What I'm saying is to really analyze seriously those topics in a massage conference and really do something about it, instead of just talking about it in discussion boards like this one. I mean, associations like AMBP, AMTA, NCTMB, etc. have some power in doing something about it, am I wrong? I thought they exist because they help and support the massage therapy industry, not only in offering CE's, marketing, workshops, insurance liability. They are there to support the massage therapy industry and the value of massage in general.
Anyways, I think that I have mistaken what the American Massage Conference is about. It seems will be only exhibitions for selling workshops and products, it should have called "American Massage Exhibition" or "American Massage Expo" instead. "Conference" sounds more for a forum where people meet to discuss topics of serious matter.
-
-
By the way, that article in the "Massage & Bodywork Magazine" regarding franchises, the author just talk about the good things about massage envy and similar franchises. I didn't read anything bad about it. It wasn't an article at all, only a promotion or a big ad within few pages promoting these franchises. Is it any way we can read in a magazine like this one how these franchises had affected negatively to this industry? yes, I know. This will never happen because ME are one of the sponsors of this magazine.
Is better reading real opinions about massage envy, like here: About Massage Envy
The people who defend ME in that forum, are mostly owners/managers of those franchises, and therapists that just got out of school, just got their license and want some experience.
-
-
Zeke,
$4,000 raised in a single day with Groupon, doesn't mean $4,000 in profits. Now, if he is creating a massage club like massage envy, then its great, because he is not giving any cut to anybody and is getting a better pay rather than $15/hr like at ME. My point is, bargain hunters that buy with groupon or similar, they hardly want to pay the regular rates. In order to keep them as a regulars, the therapist have to keep offering them the same discount (like the therapist you have lunch with). So the value of massage is devalued. Either by Massage Envy (McMassage) or by doing this kind of marketing with groupon, massage has been devalued by these big companies taking power of our industry.
Anyways, I think is great to do some kind of membership club being a solo proprietor, because you are not exploiting anybody, you keep all the money. And if the therapist is getting steady and regular clients every month, then is great! what a great idea! the regular rates have to be lowered, but its worth it if you are booked every day! right? :)
-
-
Zeke, I'm against of any kind of exploitation and discount work too. That's why I'm against ME and Groupon. But now, all these franchises have taken power and soon will become a monopoly of the massage industry. You see a ME in every corner offering $40 massage for members and we will see more of them. Now, you see every spa in your area offering high discounts through groupon for massage . As a sole proprietor, what can you do? You are forced to lower your rates or your business will slow down. Fortunately I have my regulars, but new clients will be hard to get with all the discounts for massage that are promoted everywhere.
-
Permalink Reply by Julie Onofrio on
-
Angela- but what if Laura's business model became the norm? I have read alot of Laura's comments on many different boards and think she should create a franchise herself.
Franchises haven't taken any "power". You may see more of them, but you will also see more independently own massage clinics, spas etc.
It also just isn't true that people using groupon are only shopping for discounts. Groupon also has a new service starting that MT can limit their discounts and the number of massages sold. It really is a great way to get a lot of people in the door. If done right - the person probably won't have to do any more advertising again in their career if they develop regular clients from it.
As a sole proprietor you should continue to provide your outstanding service and raise your rates every few years. No one is forcing you to lower your rates. New clients are not hard to get if you have a sold marketing and referral network set up. I have a client now who goes every week to ME and comes to me when he is in pain. ME has it's place. It doesn't mean you are competing with them.
ME exists because MT don't say no to them and they need jobs.
-
-
@Julie, I'll franchise if you want to come and run that for me...I'm stretched a little thin just trying to run one :)
The American Massage Conference is part vendor exhibition, part education. On Friday night, myself, Whitney Lowe, Les Sweeney (pres of ABMP) Felicia Brown, and a couple of other folks will be on a panel discussion about building a successful business. I've gotten the question list and it's going to be quite informative for people who are looking to improve their circumstances.They are also having a free student day....and every student who signed up to take my exam prep class is getting a free copy of my exam book provided by the sponsors.
ME isn't the only franchise, but they are the biggest one and they are currently providing over 16,000 massage therapists with employment. That's a substantial amount of people who might not otherwise have a job. They are known for hiring fresh graduates, and it's a good jumping-off place for them to get some experience.
Last year I wrote an article about Groupon etc for M&B and I put the call out to my networks for people who had done it. I got a lot of responses and not one of them that I can recall was unhappy with the experience. David Turner from Charlotte NC, who I happened to go to massage school with back in the day, ended up moving to a bigger office and hiring help to handle the influx. Several of the participating therapists said that they were initially worried that people would just come and get the discounted massage but that it hasn't happened....people turned into regular clients, purchased packages and gift certificates. The therapists were thrilled with what they got out of it for the most part.We do have challenges in our profession like every profession does. There are people in other professions that aren't compensated well enough or that have heavy competition, and all the other same problems we have.
The professional membership associations are there to serve us. I wonder how many therapists have ever contacted them to express the desire for them to do something to get fair coverage for insurance, better pay from chiropractors, etc. Start a campaign! I am always urging people to contact their legislators....my legislators know me by name because they get an earful from me from time to time! We can all complain until the cows come home, but it takes action to get attention!
Uppity therapists unite and go in person to talk to your elected officials. Start a letter-writing campaign. If you want to make positive change happen, take some action!
Angela Lind said:
By the way, that article in the "Massage & Bodywork Magazine" regarding franchises, the author just talk about the good things about massage envy and similar franchises. I didn't read anything bad about it. It wasn't an article at all, only a promotion or a big ad within few pages promoting these franchises. Is it any way we can read in a magazine like this one how these franchises had affected negatively to this industry? yes, I know. This will never happen because ME are one of the sponsors of this magazine.
Is better reading real opinions about massage envy, like here: About Massage Envy
The people who defend ME in that forum, are mostly owners/managers of those franchises, and therapists that just got out of school, just got their license and want some experience.
-
-
Julie,
If Laura's business model became the norm and the ME model can disappear, that would be awesome!
And yes, ME franchises and similar have taken the power. The independent spas that charge higher rates than ME, have to give discounts in order to attract customers, otherwise will slow down their businesses, that's why the hype is going on with Groupon.
Is a challenge and a BIG expense to do groupon, therapists don't do the math well and they are spending A LOT of money to do that advertising in order to get customers (bargain hunters) at their doors. They have to work very hard before they start making profits. People just think that they sell a lot in groupon, they are making a lot of money right away and that's not the case.
No one is forcing me directly to lower my rates, but the MARKET is doing it. If there is a ME in every corner, every 5 minutes driving, if almost all the spas are offering a discount (through groupon, living social, couptessa, or on their own),then is hard to get new clients. I'm keeping my regular rates, but EVERY DAY groupon and living social are offering massage discounts in every city. Please understand: the market has the power. People can refer me, but if they see my massage is $40 higher than the massage that is offered EVERYWHERE at a discount rate, that person will be tempted to try the one at discount rate because people want to save money. I would love that all the people can be like your client, that when they are in pain, they come to me but that's not the norm. People now want to save money, that is the reality.
And you are right, ME exists because people want to work there or probably are forced to work there because they need money. Please Read this forum where lot of people that have worked at ME have given their NEGATIVE experiences.
These franchises that pay $15/hr to therapists are killing this industry. That's why every spa and therapist are offering discounts trying to compete and get customers in bulk like ME does. Who's losing here? the therapists of course, that has to work extremely hard in order to make money. ME owners and staff & Groupon and staff, are getting rich at the therapists expenses. Very sad.
Julie Onofrio said:Angela- but what if Laura's business model became the norm? I have read alot of Laura's comments on many different boards and think she should create a franchise herself.
Franchises haven't taken any "power". You may see more of them, but you will also see more independently own massage clinics, spas etc.
It also just isn't true that people using groupon are only shopping for discounts. Groupon also has a new service starting that MT can limit their discounts and the number of massages sold. It really is a great way to get a lot of people in the door. If done right - the person probably won't have to do any more advertising again in their career if they develop regular clients from it.
As a sole proprietor you should continue to provide your outstanding service and raise your rates every few years. No one is forcing you to lower your rates. New clients are not hard to get if you have a sold marketing and referral network set up. I have a client now who goes every week to ME and comes to me when he is in pain. ME has it's place. It doesn't mean you are competing with them.
ME exists because MT don't say no to them and they need jobs.
-
-
Laura,They are currently providing a lot of employment, the same as Walmart. ME is the Walmart of the massage industry. They are being EXPLOITED. Yes, no one is putting a gun on their heads to go there, (the same as employees in Walmart) but the reality is that the people need money so they prefer something than nothing. So they have no choice to be exploited. Do you think is good? for me this is terrible. Please read the real negative experiences said in this forum about ME.
Many therapists have had success with Groupon, but there are A LOT of therapists that also have had terrible experience with Groupon. So that means, for many therapists that used groupon, they only got bargain hunters that were looking only the discount and were not interested in coming back. I have read also the terrible experiences with other type of businesses with Groupon (gyms, restaurants, cafes, etc). Groupon is not for everybody, you have to be very careful, do the math and know that the therapist has to work very hard before start getting profits and depending that clients want to rebook and pay the full rates afterwards.
Would be great to start a campaign, to get the chiropractors pay us better and get the health insurance to pay us without being discriminated, but fighting against the big monsters (health insurance and medical field) will be very hard. They have the power and money, they have the best attorneys, legislators work for them at the end if you really think about it.
I think the best would be you start building a franchise with your model Laura, so massage therapists quit working with ME and start working at your franchises!
-
-
Sorry but the market isn't forcing you to reduce your rates - it is your thinking about ME and groupon that is creating fear or whatever it may be for you to choose to reduce your rates. If you are doing the same type of massage as ME then you might have to reduce your rates. Are you doing the same type of massage? If so you can learn new techniques and learn to work with specific diseases or whatever to specialize and set yourself apart from the ME. They are all over seattle too where I am but I am in downtown Seattle and charge top dollar because my rent is higher and expenses. I also have extensive experience.
ME does not have to go out of business for a new business model to also be created.
Also the indeed.com forums is not a good reference. There are many people who post there under different ID's to make it look worse than it is.
Yes MT have to work hard when they do a groupon offer but does that really make it such a bad thing if they are getting new clients? It only takes a handful of people to come back a few times so it does need a good follow up plan as well as giving an extraordinary service their first time in. If MT didn't do well with groupon then hopefully they at least learned a lesson on how to work with people coming in on a discount to get them coming back. Groupon actually doesn't take everyone. I applied last year not because I needed clients but I wanted to see what they were doing and if it could work so I could write about it but they wouldn't accept me because I am a one person shop. Just last week they called me again saying that their offers are changing and I didn't read the whole thing but I don't think you have to discount as much and you can limit the number that you sell.
You don't have to fight the insurance companies to get them to pay for massage. You just have to find an insurance commissioner who understands the benefits of massage and how much it could actually save the ins. company. You can also send bills to ins. companies and if the don't pay - do an appeal and show the results and how much you saved them. I have heard people get paid that way. There are many ins.co starting to pay. Here is more of my ideas on how to get ins. to pay. http://bit.ly/h5k2zd
ME employes do have a choice on whether they want to work there or not. They can say no and go and find or create another job. They do need to take initiative and do some research and find better places to work that do pay more and also take the time to show the potential employers what they can do for them and how much money they can make for a place instead of just going in there and saying they want a job. You have to take the initiative and go out and get clients or do things to keep clients coming back It can be done. It isn't easy - but then what is really?
© 2024 Created by ABMP.
Powered by
