Massage Therapy Body of Knowledge

Comment

Comment by Carl W. Brown on October 29, 2009 at 9:01pm

Mike, “I hope the next draft will change your perspective.” I hope so.

I think that if you go to college you have an idea of how long it takes but that varies depending on how well you learn and if you can get the courses. In any case we need to determine the time by what it typically takes to teach to the standard not the other way around.

Comment by Mike Hinkle on October 29, 2009 at 4:59pm

Sorry you feel this way Rev. Standards are needed for the profession. I hope the next draft will change your perspective.

Comment by The Rev on October 29, 2009 at 4:46pm

It has been fun... I'm back to lurking until I lose control of my knee again. I'm disappointed folk like Chip and other BOK players aren't contributing. I can't help but think they are looking at this and preparing their arguments for the time when the arguments will most be needed in front of legislative groups. The arguments for the BOK aren't substantial from what I can see. It is a case of here it is, live with it.
.

Comment by Mike Hinkle on October 29, 2009 at 1:38pm

Carl,

I agree, but "should be", doesn't always produce quality students. The natural market as you put it is the public. They are being taken advantage of and states have grown weary, allowing substandard schools to produce substandard therapists that continue the cycle. Students can not continue to teach students, Carl.

Those already in are grandathered and you know it.

As long as standards are not set and adhered to we will have high costs and poor product. Hours reflect education and quality (per Canada), if the teachers are quality instructors. There are plenty of fantastic instructors. Many schools try to pay minimally to make more money. These schools should be closed. Most teachers spend a lot of money and invest "hours" to improve their skills.

Students that I've seen are bright-faced and thrilled to be getting into this profession. A good teacher has no problem with students like this. It is up to us to try and make sure they get a quality education and can make a living. That is a profession. People looking out for their peers. Not wanting things to be the way they were, back in the sixties! And massage therapists are the ones doing it!

The time wll vary? That's easy to plan your life around!

Well, now a non-qualified teacher gets to hold students for as much money as they want to... I'm sure no school will take advantage of this...Isn't there something going on right now in the world based on this de-regulation attitude? hmmmm....

Sounds like a deal to me!

Comment by Carl W. Brown on October 29, 2009 at 1:00pm

Mike, yes it takes hours but hours should not be the standard. The quality of the end product should be the standard. The quality of the product should also be the goal of the instructors not the hours that they need to keep the person in class. We need standards that promote both quality and cost efficiency. Hours reflect cost not quality.

If schools don’t produce students that meet the standard or cost more than other who produce qualified people then the natural market forces will close them down. As long as the standard is hours only then we will get high costs and poor product.

“I want to know how long (hours) a new program is going to take me before I enter it.” You can give people averages but the time will vary. “I've asked are you going to graduate all these people in a class at the same time. What if 90% aren't ready, summer school?” Of course but it is better than requiring thouse who meet the standards from having to spend the extra money as well.

Staged learning is a great way to go. Set one standard to start in the business and another to call yourself a real “massage therapist”. It has two advantages. One people can learn that they are not suited for the work much faster and at a lower cost or discover that their interests are in other forms of bodywork. The one that move on have the experience to anchor their training into a more realistic framework.

“I'd like to be around for a little while before the end of time.” I appreciate that we both have an interest in the quality of practice in this business and maybe if we could do a trade we might understand each other better.

Comment by The Rev on October 29, 2009 at 12:25pm

Therein lies the rub... Mike rants, "This is a healthcare field." I am a personal service, kind sir. I have been except on a few occasions when I crossed over and actually did a couple of insurance cases. I could have improved my service without all that massage stuff you are suggesting as being required.

Comment by Mike Hinkle on October 29, 2009 at 12:18pm

Carl,

You really are back in the sixties. Forget hours? Teachers have to be paid, usually by the hour. Schools have to tell students how many "hours" a day they will be in school, so babysitters can be arraigned for. Therapists are not Marines, responsible to be there until the Sargent says you can go home. Hours, Carl... don't forget them, because I am not going to. I want to know how long (hours) a new program is going to take me before I enter it. Like. I've asked are you going to graduate all these people in a class at the same time. What if 90% aren't ready, summer school?

People are graduating fine in some schools and other schools need to be closed down. There are schools out there turning out great students. Hours is not the problem. I think there is a lack of trained instructors. As Laura noted, some are literally, from the class before, theirs and are teaching. Sad! This comes from your minimal, "let's make everyone happy" stance. Sorry, that is changing.

No we aren't guessing, you are researching the KSAs for everyone right? I'm sure you will think outside the box. And oh yeah, I certainly hope you don't retire, I'd like to be around for a little while before the end of time.

Comment by The Rev on October 29, 2009 at 12:12pm

I would say schisms here schisms there, schisms schisms everywhere but I don't want to overuse it.

It may not be the 60's, but more of what is going on today is a result of the 60's and NOT the result of licensing and certification. Long before the Amta put it into high gear in their licensing efforts, the public was and is still moving toward the acceptance of massage. Maybe not as fast as some people would like to see it, but they are. Those who have been educated don't doubt the professionalism.

Skilled touch is being swamped by massage therapy. Sadly, as many have testified to in the past, the quality of the work suffers with mandated licensing. Many come out text book and test savvy but all too few remain/survive long enough to become skilled. All too many pay the dues to get into the work for all the wrong reasons. One wrong reason is their thought making it in a field that pays so well is going to be easy. Many end up as employees, grossly underpaid for their work. (Trust me. That ain't a complaint. I am a card carrying Massage Envy member that has had some good rubs there.)

For me, there is no reason to debate licensing anymore... The licensing forces have won. I am opposed to the MTBOK because of my belief the BOK will be nothing more than a WOI(Wealth of Information) that will be compiled into a curriculum that will be imposed on schools and then imposed on those looking to touch for income. The sad part is those newbies, except through research, will never know how and why it costs so much to enter this realm.

The Amta has done an incredible job in creating wedges within communities. The MTBOK, immhoo, is going to be another of those wedges.

Given the choice, I would choose a person doing the work that is not supportive of those in the first federation: http://federationmbs.org/members.html I assume you would, Mike.

Your relative new organization will greatly benefit if the ante for doing this work continues to increase. The more continuing education required the more successful your conferences will become.

We are on opposite sides of the coin, politically, but have a lot in common. I am not opposed to high standards. I am opposed to imposing my high standards as law.

Incoming client... Maybe I will meet you at one of your conferences as a vendor. I have some bridge like items to sell. Unfortunately, I will not do even one of the mini workshops because of your NCE workshops. (Although even that may change someday).

The Rev

Comment by Carl W. Brown on October 29, 2009 at 12:07pm

Noel, my question for people who want to add more education just to get more respect from the medical community is what don’t they become physical therapists? I see the big advantage of massage and bodywork is that we have the freedom to offer alternatives to medicine both traditional and alternative. I get great satisfaction in helping people for whom the medical profession has failed. If we become junior PTs then we have lost that advantage.

Comment by Carl W. Brown on October 29, 2009 at 11:53am

Mike, “You are trying to increase hours of school for students. I thought you wanted to keep it as it is...”. You have to forget about hours but instead look at competency. Some people may need more hours and some less. But when we have people graduation who still cannot do good work we are doing something wrong. We are either not teaching them right, or not long enough or teaching them the wrong things and sending time in non-essential education.

We are all just guessing at the real requirements until we actually set standards that that can be proven to produce objectively provable performance. The standards should also be cost effective and not include training that cannot be justified as producing better performance.

Because, massage deals with body mechanics we may have to also think outside of the box and maybe part of the standards may not be measurable on a multiple choice test.

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