Energy workers

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Comment by Stuart R Dole on November 25, 2009 at 10:15pm

Hi Christopher, Dawn, others...

Homeopathy is interesting. I have a background in the hard sciences (biophysics), some training and practice in energy medicine (Reiki, NAET, TAT), but I've also been training with shamans and indigenous healers the last few years. In the process I was trained in "curse removal", and I had to learn how folks actually make them. I realized that homeopathic remedies are made in much the same way, but with opposite intent. The process of making remedies is not well constrained spiritually, though the manufacturers strive for reproducibility and quality control, so "YMMV" as they say.

Further, I've noticed that there's something about the "intent field" in the scientific tests of energy medicine, or spiritual medicine for that matter, that seems to effectively short everything out, so it often seems to collapse to some sort of ordinary ground state of "no effect". Or very small effect, anyway. Also, it's hard to "blind" or "double blind" any experiments.

For spiritual healing, it seems the spirits, as independent entities, typically aren't very interested in scientific proof of anything. Seems they'd rather just have fun.

Another serious problem is, I guess, reputation. I know several experiments that actually had very strong results and were well controlled, but the PIs start dragging their feet when it comes to the publication process - like they're really afraid of peer review - probably rightly so! When your paycheck depends on (very scarce) grants, and the grants depend on your (fragile) reputation, it's amazing how conservative even the most radical scientist can become.

Just some thoughts...
Happy trails

Comment by Christopher A. Moyer on November 25, 2009 at 7:55pm

Hi Dawn.

Sure, money plays a role in medicine and in science. But there would be financial rewards for someone who could scientifically demonstrate energy medicine.

As for homeopathy, it is interesting that you mention it - a study on that practice DID appear in the journal Nature. (This shows that the premier journals _are_ willing to publish such research.) In the end, though, attempts to replicate the results of that study were entirely unsuccessful, and the results of the original study were disputed. The wikipedia file on Benveniste, the author of the original study, is quite good in providing some of the background:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Benveniste

Homeopathy is indeed still available today which, in my scientific opinion, is a shame. It may have been widely used during a particular flu epidemic, and it is even possible that it was less risky than some antiquated "treatments" that we now know were harmful, but homeopathy didn't provide any benefits to those infected with flu beyond the placebo effect.

Water doesn't have dangerous side effects, but it doesn't have any medicinal effects either.

Comment by Christopher A. Moyer on November 25, 2009 at 7:44pm

Thanks for the reply, Marilyn. You're certainly correct that the AMA is well-financed and powerful, and it could also be true that they are conservative in responding to change (I'm not asserting that they are, only saying it is possible). But of the major journals I listed, they are only behind one (JAMA) or perhaps two (JAMA and NEJM) of them.

Also, journals are not like newsstand magazines - they are not funded by ad space, and with few occasional specific exceptions, they do not contain advertisements.

Finally, I must add, no scientist needs to worry about her or his credibility if they have reproducible results. If a scientist discovered and could demonstrate the purported energetic phenomenon behind, say, reiki, (s)he would automatically become a scientific legend and would likely contend for the Nobel Prize.

So, the reasons you've suggested cannot be the explanations for why energy medicine research is not appearing in the premier science and medicine journals.

Comment by Dawn Marie Jordan on November 25, 2009 at 11:25am

I forgot to add: Homeopathy is a form of energy medicine.

Comment by Dawn Marie Jordan on November 25, 2009 at 11:23am

Money and politics have always directed public health policy. The biggest turning point was in 1929 with the issuing of the Flexner Report. This was the report that sidelined our manual healing practices and created modern medicine with it's emphasis on drugs and surgery as treatments of choice. I believe we need the full spectrum of health and wellness modalities.
A little known fact: homeopathy spared more people from death by flu in the 1920's than any other remedy. Homeopathy is still available today. The Queen of England uses it!

Comment by Marilyn St.John on November 25, 2009 at 6:36am

From what I can tell, Christopher, it may have something to do with the fact that the AMA is a very wealthy lobby and physicians who used means such as osteopathy, chiropractic, or massage back in the late 1800's were later forced to the sidelines when "medical schools" took shape and the pharmaceutical industry became more than a snake oil vendor. Schools are supported, in large part, by big business...and so is the AMA. Which makes everything else "alternative."

Much of the research on complimentary medicine is being done more quietly and published in books (which include references, in case you want to do further research yourself) partly due to the fact that respected scientists hide that research "behind the barn" lest they "ruin" their credibility in the scientific community...but it IS out there. If JAMA and NEJM wanted to publish research, I think the scientists working seriously with energy research might stay quiet anyhow, lest they lose funding. Pity. Also, as with any journal or periodical, anybody can buy ad space...so we have to consider that, just because somebody's name is in the pages a lot doesn't mean they're the most important, it just means their research is fascinating for the moment and they are doing a little marketing.

Comment by Christopher A. Moyer on November 24, 2009 at 9:06pm

I have a question.

The most widely read and respected research journals in science and medicine include Science, Nature, Cell, The New England Journal of Medicine, and the Journal of the American Medical Association. But all of the research on energy medicine appears not in those journals, but in journals that are read and referenced by relatively few scientists, such as the Journal of Complementary and Alternative Medicine. Why is that?

Comment by Dawn Marie Jordan on November 24, 2009 at 8:01pm

Yeah, Marilyn! Great beginning.
What if we started co-creating a bibliography here?

Lynn Taggert is another serious researcher on bioenenergy. The entire Noetic Sciences Institute in California. BTW have you all seen the video The Living Matrix? It's all about the scientific basis of what we do.

www.thelivingmatrixmovie.com

Comment by Marilyn St.John on November 24, 2009 at 5:24pm

Here is a reference some of you might be interested to look into further; I'm sure Dr. Hunt has additional resources to offer. Is this the sort of research we're looking for here?
http://valerievhunt.com/ValerieVHunt.com/Valerie_Hunt_EdD.html
http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/nov1/vh.htm

Comment by Christopher A. Moyer on November 20, 2009 at 9:19pm

Thanks for your thoughtful response, Anita.

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