I have taken training in hot/cold stone massage both from La Stone Therapy and Stone Medicine. The power that is in the stones never ceases to amaze me. They teach me new things every day. What I really enjoyed most about both companies (La Stone Therapy and Stone Medicine) is that they teach not only the normal stuff (how to work with stones, contraindications, technique) but also touch on the spiritual side of the stone work and the energy in the stones themselves.

Whenever my stones are not holding heat, I have been taught that they need to reconnect with the energies of the Earth, so I set them outside on the ground for a couple days. Smudging with sage also works well!

I also find letting them sit in epsom salts helps for rebalancing them as well!

I have heard that before, but I have been cautioned about putting my cold marble stones in the salt, as it can work its way into the veins in the marble and crack them.

I like the full stone treatments but often find them too fussy, interuptive of my treatments. What I do more often is a "hot stone add on" to a massage. I only heat up my big sacral stone and four smaller stones and use them on the main issue areas. I feel this blends better with the massage. It is also a great way to introduce people to stone massage

I have never seen a marble stone crack, thanks for that tip... luckily in 11 years I only have one stone that has shown wear and tear. I like Kirstens feedback about incorporating the stones into her treatments, which is what I often do, with the sacral stones or chakras or even just the toe stones is a fabulous add to any treatment in my opinion. BTW, I'm now craving a HSM... anyone local to Northern California to do a trade?

Some useful links: Stone Medicine, La Stone Therapy, stone supplies.

Has anyone been using the stones with animals and if yes how have you been using them?

I have neer used the stones on animals, but I am trained in equine massage, so I am very interested in this question, as well. I had always wondered how a horse would respond to the stones...I woudl think that for a large animal like a horse it would be very effective for getting those large muscles to loosen up.

Maybe we can ask Jenny Ray if there is any history of the Lakota stone healers using stone medicine on animals. I will try to contact on of the teachers there. Using stones on animals would resolve the problem of having water remain on the coat after the treatment. Currently we use freezer bags to prevent this. Cold stones should work as well. Canine Icer has custom made packs that could be used to hold the stones too. They might be able to make packs for horses too. I have a small animal massage certification program starting up at the end of this month so I will try using the stones on dogs to see what the response is.

Great idea! I will give Jenny a heads up that you might be contacting her!

Good morning,
I just joined and was hoping if someone had any info on a course called "Sacred Stone Therapy", by Karyn Chabot, D,AY,LMT? It's approved by ncbtmb. I am thinking of taking it.
I am a new jersey state certified massage therapist and reiki master.

I have never taken any courses from Karyn Chabot, but I have gotten word from someone that I trust who knows Karyn and knows something about the courses...she said that they are excellent, and that she is an excellent teacher.

I always caution people against taking stone massage training through correspondence course (especially if you have no experience working with stones) because it really is a hands on therapy and in my opinion (and I know that there are other who disagree with me) for safety reasons, needs to be taught in a hands on way by a qualified instructor.

Working with hot stones that are at a high enough temperature to be therapeutic for the client does carry risks of burning the client if they are used incorrectly (and there are a lot of sanitation protocols that need to be followed to make sure that disease and bacteria arean't spread)

Thanks Shanna for the information. I am already trained in Hot Stone Therapy by the Institute for Therapeutic Massage, and have been using hot and cold stones in my massage treatments for sometime now, but I was interested in expanding my range of knowledge and Karyn's course sounds pretty good. It's helpful to hear that your friend has good things to say about the course. Thanks again for getting back to me.

Thank you for sharing this workshop info with us. I have been trained in La Stone years ago.
I really enjoy working with the stones while doing this therapy for others.
I wish I had some extra money though,because I would love to take this course with Karyn. Its sounds wonderful.

Yes I understand about the $$$.

I agree funds for continuing education classes can be an issue sometimes and then there is challenge of the right time and the right place. Another therapist suggested I try a little health and wellness direct sales for some play money for things like family vacations and additional classes and it's been incredibly profitable and beneficial for both me and my clients. The beauty of our business is that there are so many opportunities to learn and enless possibilities for healing!

I find what you are saying about selling health products interesting...a friend of mine if a Young LIving distributor and I was considering becoming one myself...

the oils are good. I've used them before, but also like some other brands better like Wynnham. Do you currently use essential oils in your practice? I don't know much about the payouts, I did get to buy at wholesale which I know was a savings there!
I have some homeopathic gels and creams that are really great for instant remedies that my clients love, however I find the nutritionals are the big sellers since the results are so noticable! Would you like to know more?

I do use some oils in my practice, but would like to use more and become more involved in it. I really like the quality of the YL oils...I having been having my doubts, though, about whether higher quality is worth the considerably higher price...

No, I don't think at this time I am interested in selling nutritional products, but I will fiel it in the back of my mind for the future...

Quality verses the price is often an issue but in my opinion what really counts is if you like it and are getting the results you and your clients desire. Would you charge more or just incorporate the essences into your current massages?

I don't think I would charge any more for using the oils, but I have been considering raising my prices soon anyways, so maybe this would be a nice addon for getting clients to pay the higher rates I am considering.

I know there are "rain drop" treatments. been a long time since I recieved one, not sure if that is worth a price increase if you go that route. Besides being a write off for supplies, you could consider an aromatherapy add option, for a few bucks (the cost of the jar) that they take home and use a few other scents as well for their treatment? or like you said, simply include it as an option in your hourly fee.

I have never been trained in Raindrop therapy, but have received training through Stone Medicine in Rain Bath therapy, a Native American style of applying essential oils and stones to the body (very similar to Raindrop therapy, though I think Gary Young took learned some of what he turned into Raindrop therapy from a Native American system of healing).

I have been doing Raindrop for many years and my clients love the treatment. I have recently found a new company called Birch Hill and think the quality of their oils are just as good as YL....and MUCH more affordable.

Hi Stephanie. I know energy vampires (used to work as a healer in a Spiritualist church and also do Reiki) but I also know that folks with circulation problems will seem to suck the heat out of your stones, too. You say that the client loves hot showers, and hot tubs, so I'd look to both her circulatory issues, and yours. I find that if I am very tense my superficial skin temp drops and I can suck heat from the stones. I'd also look to the ambient temperature of the session room. If it was under 70F it is possible that her skin was quite cool. It's likely that a combination of factors were at work: you sensed her odd energy and tensed up, she needs heat, and the room was cooler than usual. If she is a regular it might help to acknowledge that her personal energy is one that is unfamiliar to you, but not negative so that you can relax more. That, and keep the room a bit warmer than usual to prevent heat loss because of her superficial circulation issues.
However, if you EVER feel that her personal energy is not something you want to work with.....DON'T.
Hope this helps, and good luck.

Hi student of massage therapy here near Nashville, TN. Looking to learn more about stone massage. Thanks, Sterling

I use stones pretty regularly to loosen tight muscles and over the back to generally relax the client. Most love it. I warm mine in a crock pot about 6 at a time - that is enough for general work and easy to clean up between clients. I use cold stones mostly for knees or shoulders - seems to help hold the work for longer. Then nothing beats a full set - full body hot stone massage!

Hello fellow stonewalkers. I have a quick question. What is the best way to transport a set of stones? I have been looking into getting some sort of case with padding inside; like a video camera case. Anybody have some ideas?

Ann

Ann, Go to Trader Joe's and get a thermal bag if you have no way to heat them on site. Put them in a rolling bag of some sort and you are on your way. If you have the ability to heat onsite. there is an inexpensive hot water pot you can find in places like Walgreens for $10. Bring an attractive bowl.... add more hot H2O as needed. Contrary to popular myth you do NOT need a roaster or crock pot. True Basalt Stones heat thru in 1 minute and are ready for use. Get a gorgeous bowl to heat them in. Place it close to you on a bamboo placemat with a rubbarized back and you are ready to go. Have fun.

Hi All, I learned to use hot stones from getting treatment and would love any pointers or good DVD's to continue to build on what I already know.

We use an electric griddle to heat the stones.Works great.Just leave on warm setting.Much easier than using any other item with hot water and having to spoon out the stones.We use a bowl of water on the side incase a stone is too hot.

I admire the ambition of all of you to transport the many stones for a hot stone therapy in home. While I consider myself usually ambitious, I feel lazy in comparison. On the go, I'll do aromatherapy and maternity massages, but I leave the more exotic stuff in the spa. I still prefer the roaster with about 50-70 stones and the "toesies" for the luxury of it all. I heat them in a shallow basin of water at about 200 degrees for a slow simmer of two hours. They come forth easy to use and warm enough to melt away the stress. I'm now exploring Sa-Wan Therapy which is a Thai treatment using herbal balls tied in muslim steam heated. Sa-Wan means "Journey to Heaven" in Thai and feels like a sweet combo of hot stones and aromatherapy. Both HS and Sa-Wan are great for POST Maternity Treatments. "Mother Roasting" is an ancient treatment in China. Herbal Balls are used for centuries in Thailand.

Hello Mr. Werstler. The long slow heating of the stones is a great idea.

Are you buying or creating your own herbal balls for Sa-Wan?

Ms. Derwis-Balaz, good suggestions on transporting hot stones. It is too soothing a treatment to be left behind!

I have bought the herbal balls from both Massage Warehouse and my Thai friend Qui. She was born and raised in Thailand and came to the USA with her sister about ten years ago to open a spa. I've been taught by her through book, hands-on treatments, and DVD study. I suppose one could create their own, but it sounds like much effort and it probably still would be costly.

Recently IMA announced they would no longer insure therapists who used hot stones during therapy. I have used hot stones off and on for years but I found them to be more of a distraction than therapeutic in their ability to resolve fibrotic and or inflamed tissues and nerves. I received hot stone therapy myself on several occasions and found the cleanliness of the stones and heating sources to be very questionable and sometimes downright unhealthy. Stones are porous and pores hold contaminates. I like for clients to have choices and options especially in spa settings BUT are the stones realy worth the trouble or are they a substitution for lazy fingers? My intent is to be thought provoking and to learn from your experiences here.

Other than when specifically requested, I do not use HS often. I do, however, disagree with your assessment that HS has no theapeutic qualities. Number one I have seen them sooth and relax the stressed muscles in clients who suffer with fibromyalgia and cannot endure deep tissue work. I have seen HS relax deep tension without requiring any deep tissue pressure by merely melting into the muscles. As for the questionable hygenic status of the stones, I find them quite safe when using the proper cleansing agents. I do not consider the use of stones to reflect on having lazy fingers because it requires more creativity to make them graceful and an extension of your hands with a warm and soothing flow. In China this HS treatment called Mother Roasting is a centuries old tradition that helps restore the mother's natural flow of her immune system and hormones. Possibly it is not right for YOU, but don't dispel it for others.

I agree with Roger. Stones are wonderful therapeutic tools. My clients love them esp. when receiving deep work. It's a nice way to warm the muscle before DT is performed and a welcome comfort to the area after. I also find that the warmth really helps the client to relax and let go of the outside world and focus on the work during the session.

Heat may temporarily relax a tight muscle but it always is inflamatory to the nerves which feed the muscles. Here's proof - have your clients with muscle aches, or disk trouble lay around on heating pads for awhile before they come see you and see what happens. Many times people come to me in intractable pain caused by constant application of heat to sore muscles which resulted in terrible inflamation. I work on numerous fibromyalgia patients who were heat addicts who got way better when they got off the heat and started using ice. Plus a lot of other important protocols like diet, stress reduction etc... And how do you feel about the insurance companies dropping therapists coverage if they use hot stones? Just because something is ancient doesn't mean it is physiologicaly correct. By the way I am not dispelling it for others - I am asking people to think about the physiology behind what they do.

Rudy, I would like to respond to your last comment; I have been practicing deep tissue stone massage for the past 10 years, much of it spent in clinical application. I do agree that heat is over used in the clinical invironment and the importance of cool application is underestimated. Injured soft tissue can be irritated by too much heat but heat is also what will start the healing process. I think what we need to pay attention to is how much heat should be used and for what duration of time. I might work with one or two warmer stones on a specific site and follow with six to eight cold/cool stones. And as the tissue start to heal, the interval of heat to cold will become more balanced. I have also found with fibromyalgia clients that diet is a major factor in their recovery process. I would also like to add that combining hydrotherapy principles with soft tissue manipulation I have found provides superior results . I believe that cool temperatures are the most important temperatures that I work with. The body only heal by change and one of the most dramatic changes to our system is achieved by working with temperatures that challenges homeostasis. When working with cool temperatures, we start to affect the body on a chemical level that pressure and heat alone will not address.

As far as the IMA is concerned, a number of years ago, they had dropped stone massage insurance but due to the efforts of LaStone Therapy, they re-initiated their coverage with some restrictions. I was not aware that they dropped the coverage all together at this time but nor am I surprised. There are many insurance companies that are now reevaluating their coverage of stone massage because of the number of claims. We have brought many of these problems upon ourselves. You will find business owners asking therapists to perform stone massage with little to no training other than watching a DVD. In my opinion, this is a formula for disaster and one incident is one too many. There is no replacement for quality education and a commitment to providing the best service possible.

As a LMT with fibromyalgia, I find that hot stones placed on my back helps relieve the stiffness that a heating pad doesn't change. While I don't personally "like" to use cold stones on myself, I have found that they are great for reducing inflammation.

The infrared heat of Hot stones penetrates deeper and lasts longer than deep tissue work alone.

Hi Bruce,
Excellent post - this is the discussion I am trying to create. I have after many many years learned that ice for at least 25 minutes followed by 5 to 10 minutes of moist heat produces the best result in the majority of clients. I am talking ice packs (COLD) not cold stones as they will not retain there cold long enough to do there job. I am science based but also lovely dovey too. I asked a well known stone practioner in the area if I could do an experiment on her stones and paid her for three out of the pot steralized stones. I put them in a sterile bag, broke them in half with a hammer and soaked them in a sterile water solution for thirty minutes I then cultured the solution in a sterile environment to see what would grow - OH MY GOD nasty. I also examined the water the stones were soaking in and found there were a lot of swimmers. YUK.
Comments?
Connie - Science wise I do not believe that our stones are producing heat on the wave legnth spectrum of infrared. Thoughts?

Hi Rudy,

What were the "swimmers" in the steriled water the stones were soaking in?

I'm probably just gullible. When I was told the stones emitted infrared heat from a doctor of Chinese medicine I believed her. Let's say they don't. All I know is that the hot stones help with my clients and own personal stiffness, while a heating pad feels great - - - it seems to create that stiff feeling when getting off the massage table.

That's interesting about using ice for 25 minutes. There again, I thought the timing was more like 10 - 15 minutes ice followed by 10 - 15 minutes of moist heat. Learn something new everyday.

I probably don't present the ice therapy correctly to my clients as they aren't open to that length of time applying ice, but they have no problem with the hot stones. To be truthful, only a handful will actually even allow me to use cold stones. I'm open to suggestions.

Ice acts as a vasoconstictor for about 15 minutes then the body reverses the process and it becomes a vasodialator. After 25 minutes you should take an hour off the ice. and if you wish try moist heat for 10 minutes after the ice. I do believe stones have the capacity to absorb (bad juju) (stuff) how's that for non scientific lingo. I like nothing better than laying on a big stone by some stream that has been warmed by the sun!! Yum.

As far as presenting ice as a therapy - I make it protocol - if they want me to help them then they need to be compliant and be willing to try new things. Oh they fuss but after a week of trying the ice - they never go back.

is hot stone contraindication in hot stone ?

I meant to say is hot stone contraindiction with some one who has scoliosis?

No contraindication unless inflamation and swelling are present. never apply heat to swollen of inflamed tissues. The result will be compartmentalization of the intersticial fluids the body thinks has damaged cells. Like a burn.

Hello
I have some wonderful special stones that I picked up off the shores of Lake Michigan on the morning of September,2001. They came from such a beautiful area up in northern Mi. because of the history of them,I strongly feel that they are sacred.
But I do often wonder about possibly they do not hold the heat as long as some others may. I don't know for sure because this is all I have ever used.
They look like Basalt stones,But I am not sure.They are smooth and black.
Can someone tell me, do I need to look into different stones? Do I need to purchase them? That would be a big bummer,being that I live so close to the Great Lakes!
I definitely would appreciate ones that hold the warmth longer. I heat my stones up in a large roaster. THis was how I was taught.
For treatments unplanned, I will sometime just place them in a bowl to heat up in the microwave, for a short treatment of pleasure for my clients that are speical.

Thanks for your insight.
Namaste

Noreen,
If the stones from lake michigan are the same ones I remember from high school days they may transfer heat TOO fast and burn your clients. 120 degrees f metal will burn someone very fast, 120 degrees f wood - not so fast. Generaly the more pourous and less reflective a material the less danger of burning someone. The reason we can walk across burning coal is because wood is a poor conductor of heat.