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Where Does Energy Work Belong?
The comment period for the second draft of the Massage Therapy Body of Knowledge ended a week ago. I’ve made comments on both drafts, and I hope you have too.
A number of my own comments were in regard to the amount of energy work-related statements that were included. I don’t think most of it belongs there. Before anyone gets their chakras in a twist at me, let
me state that Healing Touch was the very first class I ever took, back
in 1993. I went on to follow that up with classes in Reiki, polarity,
and a few other energy modalities. I’ve also studied and used Shiatsu
for years. I have in fact in the past taught a lot of Reiki classes
myself, but I’ve decided not to teach it anymore. I blogged that
decision on my FB page a few months ago. Some of these scientific minds
around here are rubbing off on me.
I honor anyone who lays their hands on another, or directs energy at another, with the intent for the highest good to take place, whether that’s to heal, to comfort, or to ease someone’s passing. I don’t have
any objections to energy work, either giving or receiving. I just think
it’s a separate body of knowledge.
Yes, I know that plenty of massage therapists use energy work, not only from my own past experience, but also from spending a few hours surfing through the approved provider pages on the NCB’s website
recently. It appears that there’s more energy-related classes than
hardcore bodywork and/or evidence-based classes. Obviously there’s a
demand, or that wouldn’t be the case. READ MORE.....
Views: 277
Comment
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Comment by Mike Hinkle on March 25, 2010 at 3:56am
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You haven't refuted them, or even addressed them; from this I have concluded that you don't understand them, or maybe you understand them but wish they didn't exist, and so it is easier to ignore them. I won't repeat them here - they are evident in any thread where you and I have communicated. I will comment above
In one thread, he says I need a million dollars to research massage.
In this instance, I don't know what you are referring to at all. Perhaps you could point it out? As you said, you can go back and find it. I was talking about starting a research group just for energy and you said I'd need around a million dollars.
In the next he says, "money doesn't matter that much." Yes, you did.
I don't think that's what I said. (You used quotes - were those my actual words?) Shouldn't have used quotes.
What I did say, in my own words, is that there are plenty of scientific investigations of importance that can be accomplished with little or no funds. Included in this category would be most tests of the theories that underlie energy medicine practices. (Please feel free to ignore me as much or as often as you like. Please feel free to call me horrible names, make fun of my institution, my professional standing, as much as you like. But do not quote or paraphrase me incorrectly; the record is easily accessible, so please get it right. For all I may attack your positions, I don't misquote you or quote you out of context.)
You used the fact it would cost so much to do energy research when I was talking about doing starting, to sway me from it. Then tried to make it sound like money would not bring researchers when I talked about putting money into the research.
You confidently assert that "researchers will come as money enters the system". You're simply incorrect on this; money has little to do with it. I guess that's why the government is putting so much money into Healthcare so more people won't become interested in Healthcare jobs. Hmmmm
I think he is lost. How many massage research projects has he done?
Most of it is right here:
http://www3.uwstout.edu/faculty/moyerc/index.cfm
Those, plus a few unpublished studies, plus a study in review, plus a few studies underway.
You both say I don't answer his questions and he stop replying because I didn't answer his questions. Go back in this discussion and show me the questions.
See, this is ridiculous. You're on the internet 23.5 hours a day, another fabrication and you can't go back a few pages from this post and find the questions? And the fact that I'm here that much means hundreds of discussions, thousands of friends, 10's of thousands of emails. If you want them answered, post them. But when doing so, post your psuedo-massage list for all to see, what you say is not massage. You have ducked this since the first day.
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I am going to take this line by line for you so I'll be sure I miss no questions. It will take two letters but I'll try.
Eh, here I go breaking my own rules again. I must be stupid. Is this a question? I don't want to miss any!
Well it's an interesting theory. For it to be true, I'd have to be in a position to do that. I haven't been on a grant awarding committee in over a year and a half now. There are other ways a college assistant can infunence research and funding, other than just the grant committee.
Everytime someone mentions energy research he's right back in here saying why it shouldn't happen. Why? To me, that is trying to control research.
Right - we're all clear on how it seems to you. I'm not dreaming. You do this.You've told us over, and over, and over. And what I have pointed out over and over (and over), but which you have always ignored, is that there are scientific reasons as the basis for my position. (Not really a question, but where are the reasons? You mean these reasons?)
Did you know that Benjamin Franklin served on a royal commission, along with some of the best scientists in history, to investigate a popular form of energy medicine? In other words, energy work research has been going on for over 200 years. (Their conclusion in that study was unequivocal - they found no evidence at all to support what the practitioners were claiming.) Wow. So 200 years ago some guys made some claims. You don't elaborate which method or form or even if it applies to massage. Guess it could have been faith healers or snake worshipers or whatever was claimed to be energy medicine that day. And they all the scientists including Ben, agreed it was hokey. OK, are we done with that one?
-Did you know that many of the claims of energy medicine modalities would invalidate the laws of thermodynamics? What claims and which energy medicine modalities? Were these licensed massage therapists making these claims or profiteers?
Not the hypotheses of thermodynamics; not the theories of thermodynamics; scientists reserve the word law for observations that have never, ever been violated. The laws of thermodynamics were codified by Newton. No one has found a single exception to them in hundreds of years. (Acknowledged)
-Did you know that a test of one form of energy medicine appeared in the Journal of the American Medical Association in the 1990s? (The result was a clear failure.) Wow, one test, on which energy medicine? And it didn't work? Sounds like they may need to do more test.
Oh yeah and if anybody does prove it they'll get millions and be rich. Cool
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Comment by Emma Torsey on March 25, 2010 at 3:09am
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The only person I need to say I am sorry to is myself.I am sorry I took the bait Laura put out.As far as Chris goes he should be thanking me.When I don't defend my feelings on the subject ,it gets pretty blah around this subject.
It's going to be the same old story every time and I should know that by now.
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Comment by Christopher A. Moyer on March 24, 2010 at 11:45pm
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Eh, here I go breaking my own rules again. I must be stupid.
I own up to the facts that I stated, yes. "just another researcher trying to control research funding." Other wise he would just do his research and that would be that.
Well it's an interesting theory. For it to be true, I'd have to be in a position to do that. I haven't been on a grant awarding committee in over a year and a half now.
Everytime someone mentions energy research he's right back in here saying why it shouldn't happen. Why? To me, that is trying to control research.
Right - we're all clear on how it seems to you. You've told us over, and over, and over. And what I have pointed out over and over (and over), but which you have always ignored, is that there are scientific reasons as the basis for my position. You haven't refuted them, or even addressed them; from this I have concluded that you don't understand them, or maybe you understand them but wish they didn't exist, and so it is easier to ignore them. I won't repeat them here - they are evident in any thread where you and I have communicated.
In one thread, he says I need a million dollars to research massage.
In this instance, I don't know what you are referring to at all. Perhaps you could point it out?
In the next he says, "money doesn't matter that much."
I don't think that's what I said. (You used quotes - were those my actual words?) What I did say, in my own words, is that there are plenty of scientific investigations of importance that can be accomplished with little or no funds. Included in this category would be most tests of the theories that underlie energy medicine practices. (Please feel free to ignore me as much or as often as you like. Please feel free to call me horrible names, make fun of my institution, my professional standing, as much as you like. But do not quote or paraphrase me incorrectly; the record is easily accessible, so please get it right. For all I may attack your positions, I don't misquote you or quote you out of context.)
I think he is lost. How many massage research projects has he done?
Most of it is right here:
http://www3.uwstout.edu/faculty/moyerc/index.cfm
Those, plus a few unpublished studies, plus a study in review, plus a few studies underway.
You both say I don't answer his questions and he stop replying because I didn't answer his questions. Go back in this discussion and show me the questions.
See, this is ridiculous. You're on the internet 23.5 hours a day, and you can't go back a few pages from this post and find the questions? They're posted not once but twice in this very thread. It's fine if you don't want to answer them, actually - I don't expect that you can, to be perfectly honest. The important point is that you will go on ignoring the points that the questions themselves make. (e.g., that energy work research isn't actually as spooky and difficult as some would have you believe, that it has actually been done many times, that it can be done without big bucks grants, that any researcher who validates them would stand to make boatloads of money and earn the top prizes in science and yet almost no researchers are interested in them - weird, that - and that the practices themselves resemble pyramid schemes).
It's all his same ranting and opinions.
Of course they are my opinions. So what?
I proved he even made donations for research
Of course I did. (You got the amount wrong, incidentally. I donated $120, the cost of two massage sessions by the MTF guidelines. That would be in addition to the time I volunteer to the MTF, which varies from year to year. Then there is also the money from my pocket that I sometimes add to research projects; it's not a whole lot in the scheme of things, but it adds up cause I'm not rich, either.) Running a foundation takes money. I'm glad I can donate a little, and I'm grateful that I have occasionally benefited from funds that the MTF can provide. None of this is incompatible with my position that one can test the claims of energy work with hardly any funds at all.
and he got upset and quit talking to me, supposedly, again.
Not to upset. Frustrated, perhaps. Exasperated, yeah. Because your posts in threads in which I am involved always take this form. You ignore what has been posted previously. You state your theories and positions on matters, which you're entitled to, but you never support them with any facts, even after you have been presented with counterevidence. And you go on, and on, and on, talking confidently on subjects that you don't know much about, namely, science, research, and the processes involved in research.
And for me to say that is not an ad hominem, as I have pointed out. I've given you credit for knowing other things, and I've also pointed out that there is plenty of important stuff I don't know. It's fairly plain to see that you don't know about the research process from the things you say about it. And, funnily enough, you'll state yourself that you don't know about it, and then in the next sentences you'll state, unequivocally, all the things about it that you are certain of! And you don't to this once - you do it over and over again.
I don't know it all, Mike, not even in my narrow area of expertise. But I have used what I know to try to point out things that you are misinformed about from time to time, and the result is always the same - you ignore them wholesale, and then you question my motives and, eventually, even denigrate my character. It's weird, frankly, and I'm tired of it.
One last note - I'm not an Associate Professor yet. I'm only a lowly Assistant Professor, at a lowly branch university. (But I don't care about that, and neither should you - the only thing that counts are my words and my work.)
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Comment by Vlad on March 24, 2010 at 11:34pm
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Maybe we all need to do some research in Tullamore Dew Therapy. Or maybe even lots of research in it.
I think I'm with Darcy here again and I'm out of it too.
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Comment by Darcy Neibaur on March 24, 2010 at 11:21pm
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Well I have to say I am tired of the stick and stones. So I am done here. Just like all the other energy discussions. Too bad it can not happen and all act like adults.
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Hi Erica- I own up to the facts that I stated, yes. "just another researcher trying to control research funding." Other wise he would just do his research and that would be that.
Everytime someone mentions energy research he's right back in here saying why it shouldn't happen. Why? To me, that is trying to control research. In one thread, he says I need a million dollars to research massage. In the next he says, "money doesn't matter that much." I think he is lost. How many massage research projects has he done?
You both say I don't answer his questions and he stop replying because I didn't answer his questions. Go back in this discussion and show me the questions. It's all his same ranting and opinions. I proved he even made donations for research and he got upset and quit talking to me, supposedly, again.
You and Emma are just trying to protect the friendships you each have made with us and poor Vlad, Darcy and Laura are caught in the middle trying to smooth it over.
I agree with Laura and have already told Christopher, we are going to disagree about this. The research will happen. Why does he fear it so? Go back and count how many digs he ends his statements with. It's hard to accept he is supposed to be an Associate Professor, a Doctor and a researcher, when he acts like the kid that got beat up a lot on the playground and wants nerd revenge. And a whole lot less likely to gain many therapist's respect, as well.
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Actually, I'm feelinglike hijacking here.
Laura, do you want me to start another thread on this since it's getting off subject?
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Dang - my cranium was up my gluteal cleft.
Thanks!
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Or does anyone know where I could find that info?
Vlad, didn't you just record a soundfile on finding research...?
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=alternative+medicine+...
http://www.google.com/search?q=cam+in+hospitals&ie=utf-8&oe...
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