Where Does Energy Work Belong?

Comment

Comment by Mike Hinkle on March 23, 2010 at 10:34am

Thanks Vlad. It really will be a fantastic week long event in 2011! Lots of new researchers will be brought to the stage. And research is going to grow, in schools, conventions and in our daily practices.

The EBP crew is great and I am one of them. Some just lean in one direction towards the fringe. I am looking for the center.

I have seen your link to Joe's explanation of the anatomy of research article http://www.massagetherapyfoundation.org/pdf/Anatomy%20of%20a%20rese... it may help many therapists and instructors begin to understand the process. Thanks!

Comment by Vlad on March 23, 2010 at 9:04am

The fact that they got so few comments on the MTBOK shows that very few people care about any of it at all. Did the evil EB crew rise up and give comments? I think most of them just threw their hands up in the air and gave up.

Why is there a lot said about there being no research on energy work? There have been studies on it. Why isn't there more discussion on those studies and why they were rejected by some scientists? If people are going to be jumping onto the research bandwagon, they'd better understand that doing bad research is incredibly bad for the profession and we need to know how to do it right.

Laura suggested a class from a scientist on methods. That's a brilliant idea. That's not a small endeavor though and it definitely couldn't be covered in a little 12 or 18 hour course. I suggest people look at Hymel's book. The coverage of his book would cover a 45 hour clock course (it's referenced in the book). Plus, people would need to have some basic understanding of basic research literacy before going to that level.

We need to have a provider for that type of class - it's the only way that any sort of quality is going to be brought into studies and also, from a therapist standpoint I think it would be good to reach that level of understanding even if they didn't get involved in research.

WMF line up for next year is looking exciting for sure.

Comment by Mike Hinkle on March 23, 2010 at 8:17am

Well Laura, go ahead and register for the research conference. Ruth Werner, new President of the MTF will be teaching the class. Carey Smith, 2009 AMTA Teacher of the Year, will follow her and Bonnie Prudden may end up the Keynote Speaker. Her research goes back to Eisenhower, literally.

The MTBOK does contain the initial skills needed for students. It is an important part of it, but only one. It also has a scope of practice. If you are caught working outside your scope of practice, it is a cause to lose your license, in Florida. Sorry Laura, it has to be in there. (From www.mtbok.org) - To develop and adopt across the massage therapy profession a living resource of competencies, standards and values that inform and guide the domains of practice, licensure, certification, education, accreditation and research.

The MTBOK is also a snapshot of who we are and our practice at this time. It will be updated by the Stewards as time goes by.

Don't know about 10,000 schools, I heard 1,800. And no one has said energy work must or even should be taught in every school. That is left between the school and state to determine the cirriculum. And NCB is set up, to test accordingly.

Let's get this straight. I promote ALL massage. I do not practice energy work myself. This issue goes deeper than just energy. I want all massage recognized and protected. And before we just accept any scientist's conclusions, more studies need to be done. We have barely touched the research needed in massage. I realize researchers are needed. And I am sure others are coming up the ranks. But, Moyer is not the only choice here. I think others can do the job and be a lot nicer about it. And having more research conferences will get more therapists involved. This will hopefully bring more reseachers into this needed field.

I will clash with anyone that tries to take any modality, out of therapist's toolchests, without tons of research. And this research has not taken place.

So far as NCB, not having advanced certification in any energy work, do you have that in writing? I got a letter from Paul Lindamood yesterday that left that door open.

I know researchers are needed and alliances are being created with research hospitals to get the processes started, including the Mayo Clinic. I do not have to be a researcher to understand research, the need we have for it and to get it done.

Researchers will come as money enters the system. I have met some very nice folks in research. No one said anything about massage therapists having an exclusive on energy work. But to do it on the general public, it should be included in our MTBOK and Scope of Practice.

Change our name? No separation, is not what the Festival does. We are all-inclusive with the World Massage Festival, thank you. We recognize the music, lotions, reflexologists, energy workers and even EBP. All aspects that encompass the world of massage are promoted at the Fest!!!

Comment by Vlad on March 23, 2010 at 7:29am

You are going to need the help of people like Christopher, Keith, Kim Goral, etc to help design research studies, because a study that is not conducted properly is not any better than no study at all.

Here, here.
Actually, I'd take it further and say that a study not conducted properly is worse than no study at all.

I have to agree with Laura- fine if you want to do energy work, but let's at the very least require students and prospective therapists be directed to the information so vitally important to the practice of massage therapy

Another great point.
If there's one thing that everyone agrees on it's that massage therapy needs more research. We're all massage therapists before we're anything else.
By the way, I don't see any aromatherapists on here bitching about it not being in the MTBOK, yet how many of us use aromatherapy in our practices? I do. I use it the same way as energy workers use it - as an add on to the massage and I know it's not evidenced based. How come it's always "energy" that gets people's knickers in a twist?

If energy work is in the MTBOK then there's a chance it would be included in core curricula. It doesn't belong there and if it is then you're taking away choices from the student PLUS you're taking away time that should be given to what they should be studying - they should be studying massage therapy. I don't care if there are CE classes in energy work (or anything else - I mean, how many "modalities" are there?) that MTs can go get after they've finished school - that's their choice. But by including it in core, you're taking away that power from the student therapist. It should never have been included in any core curricula to begin with - the MTBOK is a chance to fix that. I never studied it. It doesn't appeal to me, but that doesn't mean that I don't think anyone else should have the option to because I'm all on for choices. I'm glad I was never forced to study anything that I'm not interested in. When I signed up for massage school I signed up to study massage therapy. I think most students do the same.

Let's make the massage profession about massage first before anything else and bring massage therapy to the level it needs to be at.

By the way, I think the reason why things get so heated is because people care.

Comment by Emma Torsey on March 23, 2010 at 7:13am

Ho, cool Laura's coming to MA,Now that's wicked pissa!

Comment by Howard Weingarten on March 23, 2010 at 6:41am

A tricky question. IMHO, as an instructor teaching orthopedic massage classes around the country, I'm often shocked and apalled at the lack of basic understanding of anatomy and kinesiology. These disciplines should be the heart and soul of the "K" of KSA's, and yet it's rare to find students who have a firm grasp on the basics of the above. One has to ask, why is this? In watching my daughter go through massage basic training at a local school, what I saw was an emphasis on technique, and little basic info on the hard facts. Much of this included lots and lots of time spent on energy related techniques. I have to agree with Laura- fine if you want to do energy work, but let's at the very least require students and prospective therapists be directed to the information so vitally important to the practice of massage therapy. Outstanding claims require outstanding proof, and there is little verifiable proof to many claims made of the various energy work systems. The burden is on the instructors and creators of these systems to come up with somthing tangible before these concepts are widely taught, and in particular, taught instead of basic information concerning the musculskeletal system.

Comment by Laura Allen on March 23, 2010 at 4:49am

Listen up: The Massage Therapy Body of Knowledge is about the KSA (Knowledge, Skills, and Abilities) that an entry-level massage therapist is expected to have. I think that point is being missed altogether, and it's the most important point of all. It is what the MTBOK is all about.

There is no edict anywhere that basic massage school programs must include energy work, and many of them do not. I have seen that first-hand from traveling around teaching classes and from my vast collection of massage school catalogs. I know hundreds of massage therapists who use energy work, and I know hundreds of massage therapists who don't. Some people have managed to have very long and successful careers in massage without ever using energy work. That doesn't make them any less valuable than one who does.

That does not mean that a massage therapist cannot use energy work or that it is not within their scope of practice.

The NCB recognized some years ago that many schools don't teach it, and that it was placing a huge burden on therapists who attend such schools to try to learn it on their own. That is why the NCB offers two different exams. The NCMT exam does not contain energy work questions. The NCTMB exam does.

Sorry, Mike, but there is no word at all from the NCB that they are even remotely considering an advanced certification in energy, and I will be very surprised if they do that. The major outcry for advanced certification was in oncology massage, according to the survey they conducted. If memory serves, that was followed by pregnancy massage, sports massage, myofascial release, and some other bodywork methods. I don't even recall energy work being anywhere near the top of the list, if it was there at all. If and when they make that announcement, you can be sure I will report it.

If you want research to be done, in order for it to be valid and acceptable, it is going to have to be conducted by people who have been properly trained in research methods. The sad fact of the matter is that there are probably not 2% of massage therapists that applies to. I have heard from 2 or 3 schools that they are including some training in research methodology in their programs. Since there are about 10,000 schools in the US, that isn't many. You are going to need the help of people like Christopher, Keith, Kim Goral, etc to help design research studies, because a study that is not conducted properly is not any better than no study at all.

I will be teaching a class in MA next month called "Using Research to Market Your Practice." Does that mean I have been trained as a researcher? Not by anyone's stretch of the imagination. I just know how to find research that other people have done, and how to use that to help grow your business. I hope you'll consider including that one at the Festival.

I think it is very admirable, and I'm sure Christopher would agree, that you are going to have the WMF focus on research. Now the task is to get some people (like him) who really know how to conduct scientific studies to participate. If you get some real scientists to teach classes in how to properly conduct a valid study, I'll be the first person to sign up.

As for Christopher's rudeness, anyone reading all these threads that have gone on here and on Bodhi's site can see that you and he just rub each other the wrong way. You two disagree and you ought to just agree to disagree. You're both stubborn--and I recognize that because I'm stubborn, too. He's just as passionate about the scientific observation of things as you are passionate about energy work. I think an impartial observer, which I'm not claiming to be, might find that both of you have been guilty at times.

You do stand up for people, and Christopher applauded your advocacy for the profession in his earlier post.

There are thousands of energy workers who don't have anything at all to do with massage. We don't have the exclusive on energy work. Maybe you ought to start the World Energy Work Festival.

Comment by Mike Hinkle on March 22, 2010 at 10:28pm

The Question is: Where Does Energy Work Belong?

Do Massage Therapists train in and do energy work? Does our Association (NCB), that we support to set standards for the profession advocate and promote, certify and are even getting up and ready for Advanced Certification in Energy?

Then if the MTBOK is to be initially accurate at all, how can it not include energy work? This is not a wish list. It is as accurate as possible as to where the profession is at this time. I'm sorry Christopher and his crew want to change what we are. And his not being a massage therapist, might not matter to you Laura, but it does matter to a lot of therapists when he attacks their profession, especially by the mean methods he is using.

Who is standing up to researchers from labeling any modality they wish as a psuedo modality? I am for one. I am confused how money is being shuffled to one of our bodies and then another's researchers are calling their certifications quakery. They even have it on their site. This is professionalism amongst therapists? Many are angered.

Who stands up for the therapist out there that is following the rules and doing their job and then someone rudely attacks them? No one. So I chose to. Who stands up for over half of this profession that does not belong to an association. No one. So I chose to.

Energy workers are accepted. They are going no where. Laura, you say that I am an expert at pulling off major events. Energy research will take place. I will make sure of it. There is research to be done and I am looking for the researchers to do the work. http://www.worldmassagefestival.com/2011/callforresearch.html I am looking for all research.

Comment by Darcy Neibaur on March 22, 2010 at 9:09pm

Well said Laura and I agree with what you have said to a point. It is so wrong to put down another person in order to make ones self look good. That is what I object to and what turns me off so fast to these discussions. I am seeing it here and I have seen it in other discussions on this site. When that happens I just delete off the noticess as I do not care to see and read the humiliation of one colleague against another. I hope that comment is deleted off this discussion, so it can go on. I love this site and I love the continued learning I am receiving here. Just do not slam me because I do not know as much as others and I am learning.

Comment by Laura Allen on March 22, 2010 at 8:39pm

In a couple of moments of insanity, I thought I wanted to be a counselor. I spent a lot of money and time studying for a master's in psychology, and 2000 hours in an internship. About three hours into that, I realized I don't have enough tact to counsel people.

I am bringing that up because tact is missing on these discussions at times. Christopher has a right to express his opinion. Mike has a right to express his. We all have that right. Your opinion is no more or less valuable than mine, or theirs. When the discussion deteriorates into character attacks, it's usually because people are so passionate about what they believe, and they get caught up in the moment.

I'm known for being a smart-ass opinionated person, and there are several people here who also fall into that category. When you see qualities in someone that you don't like, that's usually because you possess those qualities yourself. You don't like them in yourself, so you don't like them when you see them in someone else. It's a mirror, and we don't like what we see.

There have been times on my blog when I had to write a retraction because I had some fact wrong. We are all subject matter experts--in our own minds--on something. Christopher happens to be a subject matter expert on research. He is doing it. Mike is a subject matter expert when it comes to pulling off a major event like the World Massage Festival. He is doing it. In case y'all don't know it, I'm a subject matter expert on everything. I told you I was a smart-ass. At least I own it.

The fact that Christopher is not a massage therapist doesn't have anything to do with it, in the world of academic research. He has been trained to conduct scientific research. He could have accepted a job researching the sex life of tree frogs. It doesn't mean he has to be a tree frog in order to conduct that research.

If I want to know how to pull off a world-class event like Mike's festival, I'm going to seek his advice. If I want to know the facts about scientific research, I'm going to ask Christopher, or Keith Eric Grant, or one of the other people on here who do that for a living, because they know more than I do about it, and I recognize that.

Debate is a good thing. Constructive arguments are a good thing. But in order to have a constructive argument, you need to address the points that the other person is making with a counter-point. Ignoring those points, or going off on a sermon, is neither debate nor constructive.

I've met Mike Hinkle in person, and I don't think he's a mean-spirited person. I haven't met Christopher yet, but he is on the list of people I'd like to have a conversation with face-to-face, and I don't think he's mean-spirited either.

Everybody take a deep breath.

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