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Just dumping
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Permalink Reply by Relax & Rejuvenate on
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Most people are rational beings. They need to see proof in order to understand and accept.
The medical profession was built on the scientific method of proving efficacy of treatments, especially pharmaceuticals. Studies show sprinkling pennicillin on bacteria kills bacteria -- y ou can see it happen through a microscope. Removing a ruptured appendix prevents people from dying. Letting it fester, kills them -- both things people can see and document and understand.
There is compartively very little in the way of proof of the benefits of massage. Anyone who has received one can attest to the benefits, but there is not the depth of research/knowledge and understanding that there is for traditional medicine.
What you can't document and publicize for people to understand and accept by definition is a matter of faith.
But in some respects, MTs are their own worst enemies in this arena. I can't tell you how many threads on this board and others cast aspersion on "spa massage" as somehow being "less than" therapeutic massage. I have never had a massage in a spa -- or any place else -- that did not have therapeutic value for me. To discount my experience is to cast doubt on the efficacy of massage. Some massages are good, some are not helpful.
How is this approach any different than the above comments about modern medicine?
Daniel Cohen said:Why shouldn't they believe in massage? If they believe in the Medical Profession they'll believe in almost anything.
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Permalink Reply by Daniel Cohen on
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Considering the large number of massage establishments in our area and the large number of people supporting themselves giving massage, I think there are more than a few people who are convinced.
Massage was common in many parts of the world from ancient times.
Prudery reduced the use in Europe and Medicine developed with other "Sciences" to replace the alternatives.
Not finding complete answers people are returning to the alternatives of herbals and massage.
Once both are viewed as helpful then a blend of complimentary medicine emerges.
Evidence base may convince some but is not really necessary for the evolution of how people care for their health.
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Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on
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A couple of days ago. This young black guy came into see me.. He was healthy and fit looking. He was about 19, and had an athletic look. He played soccer.. I asked him if he was suffering from any pain.. He said his back is jacked up.. His words.. I said ok. Where do you feel the pain.. He indicated his right rhomboid infaspinatus area.. I asked him if he was seeing anyone else for that problem.. He said yes.. He is seeing another type of health care provider...He has seen been seeing him 3 times a week for a month now. And said they told him he has only two more weeks of treatment left. Six more visits... I asked the young man if it was helping, if he is getting better?..He said NO they haven't found it yet...I asked what kind of therapy they were giving him.. He said adjustments and electrical stem.. I said ok.. Do you want me to give you a really good massage, or do you want that pain out of your body?.. He said I want the pain out of my body.. He had scheduled a 50 minute massage. To make a long story short...All I could find was one really bad right rhomboid trigger point..It had the local twitch responds, and referred pain patterns.. A classic trigger point if there ever was one.. So in a couple minutes.. That was gone.(the trigger point). And so was his jacked up back pain...Sense it only took 25 minutes of his 50 minute massage , I suggested that we stop now.. And he can use the rest of his time on a follow up visit a couple days later.. He said yea that's a good idea.. He left a very happy young man.. He is coming in this afternoon, and I will see how he is doing..But that was it. Just one bad rhomboid trigger point.. He left pain free from a 25 minute massage. From my perspective, it was an easy problem to find and fix. Interesting huh?
Gordon J. Wallis said:
I have lots of stories,
Lee Edelberg said:
It's inspiring to read this stuff.
I mean, we're still seeing things in the media like "New study shows that massage might help reduce certain types of stress", while the medical/scientific establishment move at a glacial pace towards conclusions that almost anyone working in the field already knows from their daily work.
Thanks for your stories.
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Yes interesting but not unusual. That is why it is a sad commentary on a high expense industry financed through high priced insurance premiums.
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Its interesting how unreality is seen as the actual.
Daniel Cohen said:
Yes interesting but not unusual. That is why it is a sad commentary on a high expense industry financed through high priced insurance premiums.
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Permalink Reply by Stephen Jeffrey on
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Great thread Gordon
To have our clients pain free after years and years of suffering is what makes our work so satisfying and very humbleing experience.
My question is, = is it our humble nature that then cripples our ability to reach more sufferers?
Would it be too aggressive to ask our cleints who have been profoundly improved, to, in return, help us reach more sufferers ?
Ask them to use social media/web to post comments about their transformational experience.
Write to the health colomns of national/local daily papers.
Issue your client with red cards to send to those proffessionals/MD's who failed them so badly.
I'm sure there are many ways (right and wrong) we could do this.
Today their will be many thousands of people around the world under the knives of the surgeon undergoing ops they might not have needed had they tried MT first! How can we reach them first, if we stay quiet in the shaddows. HOW?
Just dumping :)
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I always tell them to tell their friends of their experience. We as massage therapists cant take over and manage someones health care,or diagnose. WE DONT NEED TOO... But we can remove trigger points...and thats all I do... If someone is hurting or, whatever their presenting symptoms may be...All I can do thats within the scope of my license is remove trigger points...And if Im able to do that, they usually, more often then not, have noticeable to dramatic improvement... You explain to them what happened....They talk, tell their friends, and cancel their medical intervention. If I have someone in pain, and I cant find trigger points...Thats different..I cant help them.. Its just a good massage. When I find trigger points.. I explain to my client, what Im doing and why.. Then they have a full understanding of what Im doing ,and experience results.. They take over their own health care.. Yea, tell them to tell their friends.. Gosh, for the most part.. Anytime Ive really dramatically helped someone was when I was able to remove some really bad trigger points...Most people just dont really understand trigger point pain, doctors included.. I do...So I can those people...The ones that dont have trigger points.. or after you erase them, they still hurt.. Well, you cant help them anymore then that. I accept the fact that I cant help everybody... But for the most part, trigger points are the secret culprit in most pain syndromes. That might not answer your question..When you have a client that you have really been able to help..Yea, ask them to tell others, anyway way they can..facebook or whatever.
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Permalink Reply by Therese Schwartz on
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One of my more dramatic situations was a client with TMJ issues and he also happened to mention that he was getting ready to have his 4th root canal in 6 months. Recalling my knowledge that compressed nerve pain can mimic root canal pain, I did a TMJ release on him (CranioSacral Therapy) and his root canal pain went away! That was in March and he's still pain free. The body is remarkable!
Gordon, I remembered what you said about the woman you worked on with deltoid pain and that you looked at her infraspinatus and found trigger points. Eliminating them was the key.Been using that one myself, with really good results!
Stephen, I have no idea how to reach people! I can tell you that my entire business is referral-based. I've never advertised; my clients do that for me. It really does frustrate me though that it's so hard to reach people. They come to us as a last resort instead of a first resort. I do tell people all the time (even random people in line at a shop, if it seems like I can work it into a chat in a reasonable way) that I'm a massage therapist and do CST and MFR and some of the pain syndromes I can help with. Not sure what else I can do!
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Don't forget, once upon a time health care was very affordable. And it was not that long ago.
"health insurance" used to be called "hospitalization" or "major medical" -- which both in name and in fact did not cover routine office visits. Those were paid for out of pocket. Premiums were low -- since you were only insuring against catastrophic illness or injury -- and increases were in the range of inflation.
Two major factors ruined the health care industry -- trial lawyers and loss of consumerism in health care choices.
Once health insurance became a defacto right in the workplace, it was only a matter of time before it moved from being "hospitalization insurance" to what we see today. Once office visits became "free" in the mind of employees and their families, they ran for care at the drop of a hat instead of acting preventively about their health.
I see this today with my own employees -- our original health care plan paid $1,000 a year towards office visits and fees, and nearly every year every employee took advantage of that contribution. I saw the bills, rarely were they more than an office visit and maybe a throat culture.
Since then we changed to a plan of matching $1/$1 out of pocket expenditures up to $1,000 per year. Employees now had to cover 1/2 the expense of the office visits and lab work, but they would still get up to $1,000 per year if they needed it. Voila, our health insurance reimbursements dropped by 40%. it was no longer "Free" to go to the doctor for routine visits. It is statistically unlikely that the same population of employees would as a group be 40% healthier one year to another, so it is not a random act.
Trial lawyers have jacked up the cost of medicine, and not just through outrageous malpractice insurance rates. Tests and 2nd opinions are now the norm as MDs have had to go into CYA mode to make sure they don't get sued or don't miss anything.
Combine the free-rider mentality of health insurance coverage and the impact of trial lawyers and it is no wonder health care costs have gone through the roof.
Daniel Cohen said:That is why it is a sad commentary on a high expense industry financed through high priced insurance premiums.
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The young man came in for a follow up session...The trigger point was hardly palatable the second time around. Ran into him the other day..He is completely pain free. He never followed through with that chiropractors treatment plan. Wonder how many other patients are being ripped off? My educated guess is a lot.
Gordon J. Wallis said:A couple of days ago. This young black guy came into see me.. He was healthy and fit looking. He was about 19, and had an athletic look. He played soccer.. I asked him if he was suffering from any pain.. He said his back is jacked up.. His words.. I said ok. Where do you feel the pain.. He indicated his right rhomboid infaspinatus area.. I asked him if he was seeing anyone else for that problem.. He said yes.. He is seeing another type of health care provider...He has seen been seeing him 3 times a week for a month now. And said they told him he has only two more weeks of treatment left. Six more visits... I asked the young man if it was helping, if he is getting better?..He said NO they haven't found it yet...I asked what kind of therapy they were giving him.. He said adjustments and electrical stem.. I said ok.. Do you want me to give you a really good massage, or do you want that pain out of your body?.. He said I want the pain out of my body.. He had scheduled a 50 minute massage. To make a long story short...All I could find was one really bad right rhomboid trigger point..It had the local twitch responds, and referred pain patterns.. A classic trigger point if there ever was one.. So in a couple minutes.. That was gone.(the trigger point). And so was his jacked up back pain...Sense it only took 25 minutes of his 50 minute massage , I suggested that we stop now.. And he can use the rest of his time on a follow up visit a couple days later.. He said yea that's a good idea.. He left a very happy young man.. He is coming in this afternoon, and I will see how he is doing..But that was it. Just one bad rhomboid trigger point.. He left pain free from a 25 minute massage. From my perspective, it was an easy problem to find and fix. Interesting huh?
Gordon J. Wallis said:
I have lots of stories,
Lee Edelberg said:
It's inspiring to read this stuff.
I mean, we're still seeing things in the media like "New study shows that massage might help reduce certain types of stress", while the medical/scientific establishment move at a glacial pace towards conclusions that almost anyone working in the field already knows from their daily work.
Thanks for your stories.
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It's not "dumping" when it's the truth! I have gotten so used to various clients finally "allowing" me to go ahead and try, since they have tried everyone else. They will go to a chiro for 1 or 2 years before realizing they aren't getting enough of something to get them back to homeostasis. They get discouraged and believe that it's as good as it will ever get again, so deal with it.
Sometimes, especially with the old school group, they are almost satisfied with their "earned pains" from life. The total satisfaction I feel when they realize for the first time that i really do have some knowledge under my hair, not just hot air, is better than any payment ever given to me.
What really gets me is why dosen't anyone go after these cooky doctors that do nothing all day long except carpal tunnel surgeries??? Day after day, cutting people up for no real good reason, other than lazines on the part of the patient as well as the ALMIGHTY DOCTOR. The doctors know enough about what they are doing to stop this insanity, but they don't want to cut into their profit margine. Knowing the person will have to be back every 2 or so years for a repeat surgery- due to scar tissue buildup creating the same problem as before-I don't understand how this mutilation can continue daily? It's just gross negligence if you ask me. Don't get me stated,...To late-How about the Chiropractors that manage to get a license but isn't smart enough to realize and learn from every experience that would show them how much harder it is to "adjust" the bones without warming up the muscles that are dysfunctionally holding them(bones) prisioner? And what about resetting a propriocepter now and then just for kicks and giggles or maybe just to loose a constant client to a change in his health. Lord!! I could go on and on. But, I just thank God that I have been given a gift of knowledge and ability and a little luck! God Bless All!
It's not "dumping" when it's the truth! I have gotten so used to various clients finally "allowing" me to go ahead and try, since they have tried everyone else. They will go to a chiro for 1 or 2 years before realizing they aren't getting enough of something to get them back to homeostasis. They get discouraged and believe that it's as good as it will ever get again, so deal with it.
Sometimes, especially with the old school group, they are almost satisfied with their "earned pains" from life. The total satisfaction I feel when they realize for the first time that i really do have some knowledge under my hair, not just hot air, is better than any payment ever given to me.
What really gets me is why dosen't anyone go after these cooky doctors that do nothing all day long except carpal tunnel surgeries??? Day after day, cutting people up for no real good reason, other than lazines on the part of the patient as well as the ALMIGHTY DOCTOR. The doctors know enough about what they are doing to stop this insanity, but they don't want to cut into their profit margine. Knowing the person will have to be back every 2 or so years for a repeat surgery- due to scar tissue buildup creating the same problem as before-I don't understand how this mutilation can continue daily? It's just gross negligence if you ask me. Don't get me stated,...To late-How about the Chiropractors that manage to get a license but isn't smart enough to realize and learn from every experience that would show them how much harder it is to "adjust" the bones without warming up the muscles that are dysfunctionally holding them(bones) prisioner? And what about resetting a propriocepter now and then just for kicks and giggles or maybe just to loose a constant client due to a change in his health. Lord!! I could go on and on. But, I just thank God that I have been given a gift of knowledge and ability and a little luck! God Bless All!
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What gets me is... That chiropractor makes ten times the money I make...Think of all the treatment plans he has going? lol .. I dont know....Its like an Alice in Wonderland World out there...Truth remains hidden..
Gordon J. Wallis said:The young man came in for a follow up session...The trigger point was hardly palatable the second time around. Ran into him the other day..He is completely pain free. He never followed through with that chiropractors treatment plan. Wonder how many other patients are being ripped off? My educated guess is a lot.
Gordon J. Wallis said:A couple of days ago. This young black guy came into see me.. He was healthy and fit looking. He was about 19, and had an athletic look. He played soccer.. I asked him if he was suffering from any pain.. He said his back is jacked up.. His words.. I said ok. Where do you feel the pain.. He indicated his right rhomboid infaspinatus area.. I asked him if he was seeing anyone else for that problem.. He said yes.. He is seeing another type of health care provider...He has seen been seeing him 3 times a week for a month now. And said they told him he has only two more weeks of treatment left. Six more visits... I asked the young man if it was helping, if he is getting better?..He said NO they haven't found it yet...I asked what kind of therapy they were giving him.. He said adjustments and electrical stem.. I said ok.. Do you want me to give you a really good massage, or do you want that pain out of your body?.. He said I want the pain out of my body.. He had scheduled a 50 minute massage. To make a long story short...All I could find was one really bad right rhomboid trigger point..It had the local twitch responds, and referred pain patterns.. A classic trigger point if there ever was one.. So in a couple minutes.. That was gone.(the trigger point). And so was his jacked up back pain...Sense it only took 25 minutes of his 50 minute massage , I suggested that we stop now.. And he can use the rest of his time on a follow up visit a couple days later.. He said yea that's a good idea.. He left a very happy young man.. He is coming in this afternoon, and I will see how he is doing..But that was it. Just one bad rhomboid trigger point.. He left pain free from a 25 minute massage. From my perspective, it was an easy problem to find and fix. Interesting huh?
Gordon J. Wallis said:
I have lots of stories,
Lee Edelberg said:It's inspiring to read this stuff.
I mean, we're still seeing things in the media like "New study shows that massage might help reduce certain types of stress", while the medical/scientific establishment move at a glacial pace towards conclusions that almost anyone working in the field already knows from their daily work.
Thanks for your stories.
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