massage and bodywork professionals

a community of practitioners

A typical experience

I had a new client the other day for an 80 minute massage. I asked him if there is anything that he wanted me to know.  He told me that he suffers from a herniated disc that he has had for a few years. He has constant low back and right hip pain that at times radiates down the back of his leg to his knee. He told me that he has had two injections in his low back and has to stay on anit- inflamtory medication.  Anything to avoid surgery. The pain is always there. I asked him if he ever saw a chiropractor for his pain.  He said yes.  But the adjustments hurt his hip so bad that he could not continiue.  So here is a guy that thinks he is on the verge of surgery. I knew that there was a very strong probubllity that was not the case. The vast majority of pain people experience is nocioceptive pain( soft tissue- muscle, tendon, ligament, facia).  MDs and Chiropractors see pain as neuropathic pain( nerve pain).  With that asumption they give the wrong treatments and therapies.  Now there is no denying that at times injections and surgery is needed. Not denying that.   But most of the time - NOT.  70% to 85% of all pain comes directly from trigger points.  Anyway I showed my client a testimonial from a client that I was able to help out of a very painful condition that she had delt with for a couple of years. I showed him that testimonial because all pain has a psychological eliment too it. I wanted him to start thinking maybe he is not on the edge of surgery.  I palpated his entire back upper torso, both hips, and right leg. I found a very painful spot on his right L5 erectors.  Another very painful spot on his right greater trochantor.  A painful spot in the middle part of his lower right hamstrings.  And also a tender spot on the right spinous of L3.  I knew that if Iwas able to eliminate all those painful palaptory spots that I would most likely eliminate his pain problem.  Because a healthy body had no painful spots even with deep massage.  Ive been hunting and eliminateing trigger points for thirty years now.  He walked out of the massage room pain free. He was pain free for the first time in years. All those other professional people misdiagnosed him because they assume neuropathic pain over nocioceptive pain.  I assume the other way around.  I'm a Massage Therapist.  

Views: 33691

▶ Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on July 5, 2016 at 12:59pm

I'm putting the text books away. I just found out from official people, that I don't have to take any exams. However I will have to meet their education requierments. I think I will take a trigger point course. That would be interesting? The other thing that gets me about our profession ,besides the lack of trigger point training, is the few that do teach about finding and eliminating trigger points, make it so overly complicated it's unbelievable. And after all that complexity the trigger point was still there. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rUkb6iTYQK8
. He is not the only one teaching unnesicary complexity. Now watch my videos and see how I deal with low back pain. My videos are not designed to teach, at least not yet. But you will see very fast efficient work without any complicated analysis. And the trigger point is actually gone when I'm finished. https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC1nuuoTkJ4xqSulGQYJd7Ng Gordon J. Wallis said:

Yea it expires next year 30 September 2017. So maybe I don't have to take those exams. But something tells me I better find out for sure. One thing for sure. The people running this licensing deal, are not very good at their job.


Gary W Addis, LMT said:

I still say that is just legally dead wrong:  Yeah, the wording is as confusing as a Donald Trump speech.  But really, I think that last sentence in the excerpt Pueppi posted (" Effective July 1, 2017 all practitioners must meet exam and education requirements") was intended for brand new applicants who don't meet the requirements for the grandfather waiver.  But, hell, legislative bills can be 10,000 pages of gobble gobble that could be condensed to 10 words.

Gordon, does the license have an expiration date of July 2017, or later?  If the expiration date isn't next year, IMO you are fully licensed for the, what, the two year license term. 

Now, about the CEUs.  Some state make you send in copies of the certificates for attending/paying; some take your word for but with the understanding they can demand the paperwork on normal inspections.

Permalink Reply by Gary W Addis, LMT on July 5, 2016 at 1:54pm


Gordon, tell me if I'm wrong.  In this one of his videos, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rtq8EpaqBs
he claims to be treating a gluteus medius trigger point.  But isn't he working above the illiac crest? he appears to be pressing with his thumb in the soft tissue above the hip, the QL.  


Gordon J. Wallis said:


I'm putting the text books away. I just found out from official people, that I don't have to take any exams. However I will have to meet their education requierments. I think I will take a trigger point course. That would be interesting? The other thing that gets me about our profession ,besides the lack of trigger point training, is the few that do teach about finding and eliminating trigger points, make it so overly complicated it's unbelievable. And after all that complexity the trigger point was still there. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rUkb6iTYQK8
. He is not the only one teaching unnesicary complexity. Now watch my videos and see how I deal with low back pain. My videos are not designed to teach, at least not yet. But you will see very fast efficient work without any complicated analysis. And the trigger point is actually gone when I'm finished. https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC1nuuoTkJ4xqSulGQYJd7Ng Gordon J. Wallis said:

Yea it expires next year 30 September 2017. So maybe I don't have to take those exams. But something tells me I better find out for sure. One thing for sure. The people running this licensing deal, are not very good at their job.


Gary W Addis, LMT said:

I still say that is just legally dead wrong:  Yeah, the wording is as confusing as a Donald Trump speech.  But really, I think that last sentence in the excerpt Pueppi posted (" Effective July 1, 2017 all practitioners must meet exam and education requirements") was intended for brand new applicants who don't meet the requirements for the grandfather waiver.  But, hell, legislative bills can be 10,000 pages of gobble gobble that could be condensed to 10 words.

Gordon, does the license have an expiration date of July 2017, or later?  If the expiration date isn't next year, IMO you are fully licensed for the, what, the two year license term. 

Now, about the CEUs.  Some state make you send in copies of the certificates for attending/paying; some take your word for but with the understanding they can demand the paperwork on normal inspections.

Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on July 5, 2016 at 2:18pm

he is on what I call the psis pain point. He is below the iliac crest. Some things are hard to see on the video. I have two psis release videos. Check em out. Check this webpage out. http://www.360nmt.com/faq-seminars.php These guys offer trigger point training. There course is two years. My course would maybe be a week, if that long.
Gary W Addis, LMT said:


Gordon, tell me if I'm wrong.  In this one of his videos, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rtq8EpaqBs
he claims to be treating a gluteus medius trigger point.  But isn't he working above the illiac crest? he appears to be pressing with his thumb in the soft tissue above the hip, the QL.  


Gordon J. Wallis said:


I'm putting the text books away. I just found out from official people, that I don't have to take any exams. However I will have to meet their education requierments. I think I will take a trigger point course. That would be interesting? The other thing that gets me about our profession ,besides the lack of trigger point training, is the few that do teach about finding and eliminating trigger points, make it so overly complicated it's unbelievable. And after all that complexity the trigger point was still there. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rUkb6iTYQK8
. He is not the only one teaching unnesicary complexity. Now watch my videos and see how I deal with low back pain. My videos are not designed to teach, at least not yet. But you will see very fast efficient work without any complicated analysis. And the trigger point is actually gone when I'm finished. https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC1nuuoTkJ4xqSulGQYJd7Ng Gordon J. Wallis said:

Yea it expires next year 30 September 2017. So maybe I don't have to take those exams. But something tells me I better find out for sure. One thing for sure. The people running this licensing deal, are not very good at their job.


Gary W Addis, LMT said:

I still say that is just legally dead wrong:  Yeah, the wording is as confusing as a Donald Trump speech.  But really, I think that last sentence in the excerpt Pueppi posted (" Effective July 1, 2017 all practitioners must meet exam and education requirements") was intended for brand new applicants who don't meet the requirements for the grandfather waiver.  But, hell, legislative bills can be 10,000 pages of gobble gobble that could be condensed to 10 words.

Gordon, does the license have an expiration date of July 2017, or later?  If the expiration date isn't next year, IMO you are fully licensed for the, what, the two year license term. 

Now, about the CEUs.  Some state make you send in copies of the certificates for attending/paying; some take your word for but with the understanding they can demand the paperwork on normal inspections.

Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on July 5, 2016 at 6:55pm

Pueppi, thank you for your concern and help. I finally got confirmation. I don't have to take any exams. I'm Grandfathered in. Thank God because I'd probubly flunk.
Pueppi Texas said:



Gordon J. Wallis said:


Yea it expires next year 30 September 2017. So maybe I don't have to take those exams. But something tells me I better find out for sure. One thing for sure. The people running this licensing deal, are not very good at their job.


Gordon, you may be able to get a response if you send a real letter, certified mail.  It's worth a shot.
Attachments:
Permalink Reply by Gary W Addis, LMT on July 5, 2016 at 7:11pm

Look more closely at his video, enlarge it to full screen, notice how deep his thumb is sinking into the tissue, and note where the rim of the illium is in relation to it.  Really, to me it looks like he's either on the lat, or possibly the external oblique-- but he appears to be too far medial to be on the external oblique.  As deep as he is going he might be on the internal oblique, though.

Wait, I think maybe you're looking at his #9; I'm talking about #13.  Not sure which muscle he is on, but IMO it isn't gluteus medius which tops out on the PSIS. And how he treats it, applies the pressure and with other hand stretches the hamstring straight up.  Actions of gluteus medius: abduction of the hip; preventing adduction of the hip. Medial rotation of thigh.  Not involved in extension of hip? 

Hell, I could be wrong, certainly.  But you are right that some people, some of the gurus of MT education, needlessly complicate treatments.  Agreed, your skillset makes treating trigger points quicker and far less painful.

Gordon J. Wallis said:


he is on what I call the psis pain point. He is below the iliac crest. Some things are hard to see on the video. I have two psis release videos. Check em out. Check this webpage out. http://www.360nmt.com/faq-seminars.php These guys offer trigger point training. There course is two years. My course would maybe be a week, if that long.
Gary W Addis, LMT said:


Gordon, tell me if I'm wrong.  In this one of his videos, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rtq8EpaqBs
he claims to be treating a gluteus medius trigger point.  But isn't he working above the illiac crest? he appears to be pressing with his thumb in the soft tissue above the hip, the QL.  


Gordon J. Wallis said:


I'm putting the text books away. I just found out from official people, that I don't have to take any exams. However I will have to meet their education requierments. I think I will take a trigger point course. That would be interesting? The other thing that gets me about our profession ,besides the lack of trigger point training, is the few that do teach about finding and eliminating trigger points, make it so overly complicated it's unbelievable. And after all that complexity the trigger point was still there. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rUkb6iTYQK8
. He is not the only one teaching unnesicary complexity. Now watch my videos and see how I deal with low back pain. My videos are not designed to teach, at least not yet. But you will see very fast efficient work without any complicated analysis. And the trigger point is actually gone when I'm finished. https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC1nuuoTkJ4xqSulGQYJd7Ng Gordon J. Wallis said:

Yea it expires next year 30 September 2017. So maybe I don't have to take those exams. But something tells me I better find out for sure. One thing for sure. The people running this licensing deal, are not very good at their job.


Gary W Addis, LMT said:

I still say that is just legally dead wrong:  Yeah, the wording is as confusing as a Donald Trump speech.  But really, I think that last sentence in the excerpt Pueppi posted (" Effective July 1, 2017 all practitioners must meet exam and education requirements") was intended for brand new applicants who don't meet the requirements for the grandfather waiver.  But, hell, legislative bills can be 10,000 pages of gobble gobble that could be condensed to 10 words.

Gordon, does the license have an expiration date of July 2017, or later?  If the expiration date isn't next year, IMO you are fully licensed for the, what, the two year license term. 

Now, about the CEUs.  Some state make you send in copies of the certificates for attending/paying; some take your word for but with the understanding they can demand the paperwork on normal inspections.

Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on July 5, 2016 at 10:49pm
Yea, party time. I'm scared of tests. I'm 62 years old. The last thing I wanna do is take a test.

Pueppi Texas said:

Gordon J. Wallis said:

Pueppi, thank you for your concern and help. I finally got confirmation. I don't have to take any exams. I'm Grandfathered in.

WHOOOO HOOO!!!!  So glad to hear that!  :)
Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on July 5, 2016 at 11:04pm
Well reguardless of where he is pressing. By lifting the leg he is doing what Is called Jones Strain Counter Strain. There are several versions. Positional Release is another version. I call it the Fold and Hold. Basically you keep your finger on the trigger point and fold the body around the trigger point till it's no longer felt or at least 50% gone. And you hold that position of relief for a certain amount of time. The version I learned was for 90 seconds. Then you slowly allow the person to move back to a normal position and the trigger point is suppose to be gone. But every time I did it, the trigger point was still there. I found it very ineficient and time consuming. But google it. Jones Strain Counter Strain. Also, as a side note. I did some of the most advanced bodywork ever today. My new client was in bad pain....she told me she cried two times today. She had an appointment with a chiropractor( now cancelled ). She left the spa zoned out and pain free. She rescheduled. Trigger points. I felt so good.

Gary W Addis, LMT said:

Look more closely at his video, enlarge it to full screen, notice how deep his thumb is sinking into the tissue, and note where the rim of the illium is in relation to it.  Really, to me it looks like he's either on the lat, or possibly the external oblique-- but he appears to be too far medial to be on the external oblique.  As deep as he is going he might be on the internal oblique, though.

Wait, I think maybe you're looking at his #9; I'm talking about #13.  Not sure which muscle he is on, but IMO it isn't gluteus medius which tops out on the PSIS. And how he treats it, applies the pressure and with other hand stretches the hamstring straight up.  Actions of gluteus medius: abduction of the hip; preventing adduction of the hip. Medial rotation of thigh.  Not involved in extension of hip? 

Hell, I could be wrong, certainly.  But you are right that some people, some of the gurus of MT education, needlessly complicate treatments.  Agreed, your skillset makes treating trigger points quicker and far less painful.

Gordon J. Wallis said:


he is on what I call the psis pain point. He is below the iliac crest. Some things are hard to see on the video. I have two psis release videos. Check em out. Check this webpage out. http://www.360nmt.com/faq-seminars.php These guys offer trigger point training. There course is two years. My course would maybe be a week, if that long.
Gary W Addis, LMT said:


Gordon, tell me if I'm wrong.  In this one of his videos, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rtq8EpaqBs
he claims to be treating a gluteus medius trigger point.  But isn't he working above the illiac crest? he appears to be pressing with his thumb in the soft tissue above the hip, the QL.  


Gordon J. Wallis said:


I'm putting the text books away. I just found out from official people, that I don't have to take any exams. However I will have to meet their education requierments. I think I will take a trigger point course. That would be interesting? The other thing that gets me about our profession ,besides the lack of trigger point training, is the few that do teach about finding and eliminating trigger points, make it so overly complicated it's unbelievable. And after all that complexity the trigger point was still there. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rUkb6iTYQK8
. He is not the only one teaching unnesicary complexity. Now watch my videos and see how I deal with low back pain. My videos are not designed to teach, at least not yet. But you will see very fast efficient work without any complicated analysis. And the trigger point is actually gone when I'm finished. https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC1nuuoTkJ4xqSulGQYJd7Ng Gordon J. Wallis said:

Yea it expires next year 30 September 2017. So maybe I don't have to take those exams. But something tells me I better find out for sure. One thing for sure. The people running this licensing deal, are not very good at their job.


Gary W Addis, LMT said:

I still say that is just legally dead wrong:  Yeah, the wording is as confusing as a Donald Trump speech.  But really, I think that last sentence in the excerpt Pueppi posted (" Effective July 1, 2017 all practitioners must meet exam and education requirements") was intended for brand new applicants who don't meet the requirements for the grandfather waiver.  But, hell, legislative bills can be 10,000 pages of gobble gobble that could be condensed to 10 words.

Gordon, does the license have an expiration date of July 2017, or later?  If the expiration date isn't next year, IMO you are fully licensed for the, what, the two year license term. 

Now, about the CEUs.  Some state make you send in copies of the certificates for attending/paying; some take your word for but with the understanding they can demand the paperwork on normal inspections.

Attachments:
Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on July 5, 2016 at 11:21pm
http://www.jiscs.com/Article.aspx?a=0
It's considered leading edge stuff. There are some physical therapists in town that do that. And it does work. And there is some sound thinking around it. But it's obsolete now. Of course, they don't know that. This stuff is out of the massage therapist CEU box. Physical therapists and Osteopaths learn this stuff. It's soft tissue work guys. We have a license to work with soft tissue. Even though this work is no longer leading edge. They think it is, and it's soft tissue work. They charge an arm and leg for that therapy. You won't get any massage CEUs from these guys. Our education system needs to change. This is considered medical. But it's within our license. Look at the recently credentialed people. There is no massage therapist on that list.
Permalink Reply by Gary W Addis, LMT on July 6, 2016 at 2:37pm

In one of his textbooks, Chaitow devotes a chapter to it. and, yes, we can do it without the certification.

Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on July 6, 2016 at 9:57pm
I had a new client the other day that was in a lot of pain. Back pain, neck pain, migraines, and suffered from Gerd( acid reflux). She had trigger points in all the right places. Several intense ones in her abdominal area. Those abdominal trigger points were responsible for or were the major contributors to her pain. They contributed to her back pain, headaches, and maybe even caused her acid reflux. She came in for an exotic water massage. It's a 55 minute hands on massage followed by using a hand held portable jacuzzi jet of hot water from Head to toe. Then there are seven overhead showers that make a waterfall from the top of your head down your tail bone. And while the client is under the waterfall I am sprinkling essential oils and cool water around their body. Anyway it's an awesome exotic service. Well seeing she was in a lot of pain. I had to do trigger point work. And boy she had em. Maybe 40 trigger points. She had eight in her abdominal area that made her wince when touched. You should have seen the relief on her face as they vanished one by one. After I eliminated all those trigger points we did the water thing. The water temperature is around 104 degrees Fahrenheit. She was zoned and pain free after. She had a soft look of contentment. She was smiling and pain free. She got the best therapy in the world for her problem. And it was accidental. And for me, that's probubly as good as I have ever felt after giving a massage. She cried twice that day because of the pain. She will need some follow ups. But the results were dramatic, and I think her problem is over. I wish I had that session on video. It was mind blowing. Maybe I can video her second session? Ther might not be as many trigger points, but it still should be good. Anyway, here is some info on abdominal trigger points. Now the other thing to remember is she has been under medical care. I'm a massage therapist in a spa. A big difference between my procedures and theirs. " Truth is often hidden.....Like a shadow in darkness. " http://www.triggerpointbook.com/index.php?option=com_zoo&task=i...
Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on July 9, 2016 at 2:25am
If you guys want to learn a simplified version of Jones Strain Counterstrain. Get the book in the attachment below. It's less the ten bucks. When I read books like this, I sort of groc ( grasp ) the concept and see if I can apply that concept to my bodywork in some way. Chaitow uses it in his trigger point work you'll notice, if you've watched his videos. There is a physical therapy clinic here in Anchorage that uses Jones Strain Counterstrain as the hands on soft tissue component to their therapy. It works ok, I just find it too slow and cumbersome for my liking. If you go to the Jones Strain Counterstrain website ( I posted it somewhere a short while back on this thread), you'll see that they market it towards osteopaths and physical therapists. But you can get the concept for less then ten bucks.
Attachments:
Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on July 10, 2016 at 9:26pm
The last three clients that came in complaining of pain, two of them, for whatever reason chose to get relaxation massages instead of trigger point work. I've learned that it's best not too try and change the clients mind dispite the fact that I could probubly help them. They complain to the front desk and the next day I'm called into management and given a talking too. However one client made it very clear she wanted out of pain reguardless of what it took. She said she had heard of me and had read some reviews online. I could see and feel a depressed tired sense about her. I asked her where she hurt? She said she works in a physical therapy clinic and the physical therapists have told her that they think it's coming from her first rib? I again asked her where she hurt. She said her neck and shoulders, and that she gets a lot of headaches. Knowing the neck low back relationship I asked her if her low back and hips bother her. She said no not really. But when her boyfriend massages her she has to make him stop working on her low back because it hurts too much. I asked her how long she has been dealing with the pain and headaches. She said sense 2007. Here is what I found. Her right hip I found trigger points in her Tensor fasciae latae, PSIS, gluteus medius, and two in her Piriformis. On the left hip I found one in her Glutius medius. Her upper sacrum had two very tender trigger points as well. Her QLs on both sides had trigger points on the Illiac crest. L5 paraspinals on the right and left were very tender as well. I found a couple paraspinal or Rhomboid trigger points on the right, between the shoulder blade and spine. I found a couple posterior neck trigger points on the right side. I found a trigger point on her left 1st rib. I found a painful trigger point on her sternum. I found two trigger points on her right SCM, a trigger point in each Masseter. A trigger point in each Temporalis. I also found three trigger points in her abdominal area ( common with low back pain and headaches ). In all those years sense 2007, even though she works in a physical therapy clinic. No one told her or checked for the presence of trigger points. Well they all deactivated. Can you imagine how you would feel with all those trigger points? It's going to take several sessions in order to clear all those out. And I still have not checked the rest of her body. I suspect her spinous processes harbor trigger points as well. She suffers from Myofascial Pain Syndrome. An ailment that for all practical purposes, is never diagnosed. Oh, also I just up loaded a new video to my YouTube page. I deactivate a biceps( I think? ) trigger point and an Infraspinatus trigger point on a co-worker while in the break room. She has shoulder pain from her work. It's a cool video, except I look so old.
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC1nuuoTkJ4xqSulGQYJd7Ng
Attachments:

▶ Reply to Discussion

RSS

© 2024   Created by ABMP.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service

Sign in to chat!