Body Cells Carry Emotional Memory

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Christopher A. Moyer on May 4, 2011 at 12:47pm

Hi Noel.

 

Chrisopher - From your webpage: http://www.uwstout.edu/faculty/moyerc/index.cfm  it appears that your focus is on:  "how MT can be used as an effective treatment for reducing anxiety and depression, and how the findings from MT research can improve our understanding of the social, physiological, behavioral, and cognitive processes that influence human emotion."  

 

Yes, that's a very brief, one-sentence description of my primary focus.

 

Therefore, I find it curious that you as a Ph.D. in psychology (a field not generally recognized as a "hard" science) feel qualified to publicly "validate" and "invalidate"

 

What's with the scare quotes? 

 

clinical massage practice protocols

 

When have I ever invalidated or validated a massage therapy protocol?  To date I have never offered an opinion on the way massage therapy should be performed.  That's a flat-out erroneous statement.

 

as well as demand that non academics meet your standards for providing bibliographical references supporting their findings and opinions.

 

I don't demand anything, Noel.  I have no control over people.  From time to time on this site I've pointed out when someone has got something seriously wrong.  I limit this to things I know about.  I never get involved in discussions of specific massage strokes or protocols, running a massage therapy clinic, and the like because I don't know anything about those things.  If I happen to see or already be involved in a discussion that has got something about mind-body processes totally wrong, then I point it out.  And when someone objects to that - almost never with evidence, usually just with bluster - sometimes I continue.

 

Since you clearly feel qualified to challenge experienced clinicians working in fields in which it appears you have no professional training or experience, I wonder if you are prepared to publicly state that Candace B. Pert, Ph.D.'s book "Molecules of Emotion, The science behind mind-body medicine" C 1997, David S. Butler's book "The Sensitive Nervous System" C 2000, and "Trauma and the Body, A Sensorimotor Approach to Psychotherapy" edited by Daniel J. Siegel, M.D. C 2006 don't meet your standards for reference or support the use of non-scientific language when experienced clinical massage practitioners discuss what can oftentimes be clinically significant cognitive & emotional effects of massage.

 

I have no knowledge of the latter two books, and so I have no opinion on them.  But I actually have read Pert's book, and I've already offered my opinion of it on this very site.  The first half of the book is a very interesting autobiography and a behind-the-scenes account of working in the biological sciences.  And at one time Pert was doing real top-level science.  The second half of the book is mostly nonsense, which is why no working biologists are using it to guide their work.  So sure, I'm prepared to "publicly state" that Pert's book doesn't "meet your standards for reference or support the use of non-scientific language when experienced clinical massage practitioners discuss what can oftentimes be clinically significant cognitive & emotional effects of massage."

 

If books like Pert's are what pass for good sources of information on the workings of the body and mind, that's genuinely sad.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Ravensara Travillian on May 4, 2011 at 12:58pm

Yes, you quote the context correctly. But how does that context change your factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?

 

Now I know you doing it intentionally, and this is dishonesty.

 

Let's see.

 

*You* falsely accuse me of promoting classes, all the while flogging your own against all the stated policies of this site, and yet *I'm* dishonest?

 

How exactly does that work?

 

Because I'm just not seeing it.

Boris Prilutsky said:

Raven. You continue to distract discussion on phenomena,  Now I know you doing it intentionally, and this is dishonesty.in this post you offerd the sentence from my article:"

But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain."

what you did is to took sentence out of content  to distract important discussion. For your reasons you  have excluded full sentences from my article :

"It's reasonable to assume that the memory of the emotional experience is stored somewhere in the brain - the system that is specialized in memory handling and remained inaccessible, as many other memories a human being experiencing during the life. But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain. "

 no one including you knows where this emotional storage is, but no doubt some where in body cells. Please remember

that our brain contained from cells. Many time during this discussions I stated, that no one knows where this storage is but clinical observation in treatment room is absolutely obvious that this phenomenon is exist, and in my strong opinion we have to be aware about this phenomenon,to look for it as well if it will happen in the treatment room to know that this is positive phenomenon, and to advise to our  clients to release it( to cry it out if needed).this is what my original article post was about.

And I believe this information is important for practitioners, students ect.I do believe in the importance of understanding

but in this case it's not applicable, because no one know where this storage is. In this case what we have to understand

is that phenomenon exist,massage  therapy triggering release of negative emotions, to understand the importance of this releases ect.

Ravensara Travillian said:

And this sentence as well:

 

But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain.

 

The brain doesn't work like a hard disk on a computer, with literal pointers in body cells to hard-coded memory locations on the "disk". It's much more dynamic and complex than that.

 

People need to differentiate between a metaphor and literal meaning.

 

In my opinion, we need more humanities and arts training in massage as well as science and critical thinking. If we understood better how narrative works, we wouldn't constantly fall into traps like confusing metaphor for evidence.

 

In this economic climate, of course, it's probably an impossible dream to expand curricula in that way. But I really would like to see a broad range of disciplines included in massage education, because--as Daniel points out--there is a large artistic component to massage, as well as the science.

 

Understanding narrative, metaphor, and analogy, as well as empirical evidence, would be massively useful skills.

Vlad said:

The title of the post can be edited by the creator of the post or the administrator.

Why can't *someone* (either the moderator of this site or the creator of the post or one of his colleagues ADVISE HIM TO DO IT to stop this) add two words *feels like* to the title of the post and the first sentence ?

 

People need to differentiate between a metaphor and literal meaning. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Christopher A. Moyer on May 4, 2011 at 12:58pm

Why are you wasting time on it? egotism?

 

If I thought it was a total waste of time, I would not have spent any time on this.  I previously believed it was good to enter discussions on this site.  Many people may not be aware of this, but most working scientists actively avoid discussing science with the public.  I'm beginning to see why.

 

Face it, Mr Moyer, you aren't changing anyone's mind-- it's a safe bet that the majority of readers believe--are you ready?--that you are both right.  In that, by whatever methodology or labeling applied to it, the body (this includes skeletal muscle) does provide feedback that absolutely, definitely does influence the brain's input and output response to the environment--

 

Yes, of course.  Raven and I have both agreed with this plenty of times already.

 

so, yes, Christopher, Boris and countless others are correct in saying that the body's cells "remember."

 

It can mean anything you want it to if you put it in scare quotes.  But as you keep willfully ignoring, and as Raven and I have pointed out many times, the record indicates that Boris does not consistently mean it the way you have been stating it.  Clearly, you either aren't aware of this, or you disagree with it.  So be it.

 

  And, yes, Christoper, in that cells are not equipped for the storing/retrieval  of thought, you too are correct. 

Now, if your ego can take the hit, let it go.

 

I like how you are so confident that you know what is going on here.

 

After the death of his beloved wife some years ago, a psychiatrist friend of mine turned to massage for comfort; today, he is both a practicing counselor and a highly skilled LMT.  With your interest in MT, you can follow the same path and diffuse some of the criticism directed at you.  Just a thought.

 

The content of this thread and ones like it does not qualify as criticism.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Boris Prilutsky on May 4, 2011 at 2:12pm

Raven.You Wrote:But how does that context change your factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?

I will have again to quote a bit extensively from my article.:"It's reasonable to assume that the memory of the emotional experience is stored somewhere in the brain - the system that is specialized in memory handling and remained inaccessible, as many other memories a human being experiencing during the life. But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain. Thus by activating the shoulder cell you triggered the process of loading the content of that remote memory in the active memory, causing the aforementioned reaction."

I used  words"shoulder cells hold the bookmarks"because in specific case that I described in my article " Thus by activating the shoulder cell you triggered the process of loading the content of that remote memory in the active memory, causing the aforementioned reaction." how you'll describe the fact that he start crying/releasing emotions, when I did mobilized his shoulder?again no one knows where this memories are stored, but obviously different body parts is" book marking" how you would describe it  if you calling:" factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?just give the definition of this phenomenon.

 

Ravensara Travillian said:

Yes, you quote the context correctly. But how does that context change your factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?

 

Now I know you doing it intentionally, and this is dishonesty.

 

Let's see.

 

*You* falsely accuse me of promoting classes, all the while flogging your own against all the stated policies of this site, and yet *I'm* dishonest?

 

How exactly does that work?

 

Because I'm just not seeing it.

Boris Prilutsky said:

Raven. You continue to distract discussion on phenomena,  Now I know you doing it intentionally, and this is dishonesty.in this post you offerd the sentence from my article:"

But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain."

what you did is to took sentence out of content  to distract important discussion. For your reasons you  have excluded full sentences from my article :

"It's reasonable to assume that the memory of the emotional experience is stored somewhere in the brain - the system that is specialized in memory handling and remained inaccessible, as many other memories a human being experiencing during the life. But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain. "

 no one including you knows where this emotional storage is, but no doubt some where in body cells. Please remember

that our brain contained from cells. Many time during this discussions I stated, that no one knows where this storage is but clinical observation in treatment room is absolutely obvious that this phenomenon is exist, and in my strong opinion we have to be aware about this phenomenon,to look for it as well if it will happen in the treatment room to know that this is positive phenomenon, and to advise to our  clients to release it( to cry it out if needed).this is what my original article post was about.

And I believe this information is important for practitioners, students ect.I do believe in the importance of understanding

but in this case it's not applicable, because no one know where this storage is. In this case what we have to understand

is that phenomenon exist,massage  therapy triggering release of negative emotions, to understand the importance of this releases ect.

Ravensara Travillian said:

And this sentence as well:

 

But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain.

 

The brain doesn't work like a hard disk on a computer, with literal pointers in body cells to hard-coded memory locations on the "disk". It's much more dynamic and complex than that.

 

People need to differentiate between a metaphor and literal meaning.

 

In my opinion, we need more humanities and arts training in massage as well as science and critical thinking. If we understood better how narrative works, we wouldn't constantly fall into traps like confusing metaphor for evidence.

 

In this economic climate, of course, it's probably an impossible dream to expand curricula in that way. But I really would like to see a broad range of disciplines included in massage education, because--as Daniel points out--there is a large artistic component to massage, as well as the science.

 

Understanding narrative, metaphor, and analogy, as well as empirical evidence, would be massively useful skills.

Vlad said:

The title of the post can be edited by the creator of the post or the administrator.

Why can't *someone* (either the moderator of this site or the creator of the post or one of his colleagues ADVISE HIM TO DO IT to stop this) add two words *feels like* to the title of the post and the first sentence ?

 

People need to differentiate between a metaphor and literal meaning. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Ravensara Travillian on May 4, 2011 at 2:32pm

again no one knows where this memories are stored

 

Anyone who knows basic neurobiology knows where memories are stored.

 

I'm more curious about how you know I'm dishonest. How do you figure?

 

Specifically, when you make false accusations about me promoting classes that don't even exist, all the while flogging your classes at every opportunity against all published policies of this site, how do you figure that I'm the dishonest one?

Boris Prilutsky said:

Raven.You Wrote:But how does that context change your factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?

I will have again to quote a bit extensively from my article.:"It's reasonable to assume that the memory of the emotional experience is stored somewhere in the brain - the system that is specialized in memory handling and remained inaccessible, as many other memories a human being experiencing during the life. But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain. Thus by activating the shoulder cell you triggered the process of loading the content of that remote memory in the active memory, causing the aforementioned reaction."

I used  words"shoulder cells hold the bookmarks"because in specific case that I described in my article " Thus by activating the shoulder cell you triggered the process of loading the content of that remote memory in the active memory, causing the aforementioned reaction." how you'll describe the fact that he start crying/releasing emotions, when I did mobilized his shoulder?again no one knows where this memories are stored, but obviously different body parts is" book marking" how you would describe it  if you calling:" factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?just give the definition of this phenomenon.

 

Ravensara Travillian said:

Yes, you quote the context correctly. But how does that context change your factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?

 

Now I know you doing it intentionally, and this is dishonesty.

 

Let's see.

 

*You* falsely accuse me of promoting classes, all the while flogging your own against all the stated policies of this site, and yet *I'm* dishonest?

 

How exactly does that work?

 

Because I'm just not seeing it.

Boris Prilutsky said:

Raven. You continue to distract discussion on phenomena,  Now I know you doing it intentionally, and this is dishonesty.in this post you offerd the sentence from my article:"

But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain."

what you did is to took sentence out of content  to distract important discussion. For your reasons you  have excluded full sentences from my article :

"It's reasonable to assume that the memory of the emotional experience is stored somewhere in the brain - the system that is specialized in memory handling and remained inaccessible, as many other memories a human being experiencing during the life. But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain. "

 no one including you knows where this emotional storage is, but no doubt some where in body cells. Please remember

that our brain contained from cells. Many time during this discussions I stated, that no one knows where this storage is but clinical observation in treatment room is absolutely obvious that this phenomenon is exist, and in my strong opinion we have to be aware about this phenomenon,to look for it as well if it will happen in the treatment room to know that this is positive phenomenon, and to advise to our  clients to release it( to cry it out if needed).this is what my original article post was about.

And I believe this information is important for practitioners, students ect.I do believe in the importance of understanding

but in this case it's not applicable, because no one know where this storage is. In this case what we have to understand

is that phenomenon exist,massage  therapy triggering release of negative emotions, to understand the importance of this releases ect.

Ravensara Travillian said:

And this sentence as well:

 

But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain.

 

The brain doesn't work like a hard disk on a computer, with literal pointers in body cells to hard-coded memory locations on the "disk". It's much more dynamic and complex than that.

 

People need to differentiate between a metaphor and literal meaning.

 

In my opinion, we need more humanities and arts training in massage as well as science and critical thinking. If we understood better how narrative works, we wouldn't constantly fall into traps like confusing metaphor for evidence.

 

In this economic climate, of course, it's probably an impossible dream to expand curricula in that way. But I really would like to see a broad range of disciplines included in massage education, because--as Daniel points out--there is a large artistic component to massage, as well as the science.

 

Understanding narrative, metaphor, and analogy, as well as empirical evidence, would be massively useful skills.

Vlad said:

The title of the post can be edited by the creator of the post or the administrator.

Why can't *someone* (either the moderator of this site or the creator of the post or one of his colleagues ADVISE HIM TO DO IT to stop this) add two words *feels like* to the title of the post and the first sentence ?

 

People need to differentiate between a metaphor and literal meaning. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Boris Prilutsky on May 4, 2011 at 3:03pm

 neurophysiology do not explain  where about storages of negative emotions .but  in previous post my question  was and still is:"I used  words"shoulder cells hold the bookmarks"because in specific case that I described in my article " Thus by activating the shoulder cell you triggered the process of loading the content of that remote memory in the active memory, causing the aforementioned reaction." how you'll describe the fact that he start crying/releasing emotions, when I did mobilized his shoulder?again no one knows where this memories are stored, but obviously different body parts is" book marking" how you would describe it  if you calling:" factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?just give the definition of this phenomenon.

 

 

 

Ravensara Travillian said:

again no one knows where this memories are stored

 

Anyone who knows basic neurobiology knows where memories are stored.

 

I'm more curious about how you know I'm dishonest. How do you figure?

 

Specifically, when you make false accusations about me promoting classes that don't even exist, all the while flogging your classes at every opportunity against all published policies of this site, how do you figure that I'm the dishonest one?

Boris Prilutsky said:

Raven.You Wrote:But how does that context change your factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?

I will have again to quote a bit extensively from my article.:"It's reasonable to assume that the memory of the emotional experience is stored somewhere in the brain - the system that is specialized in memory handling and remained inaccessible, as many other memories a human being experiencing during the life. But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain. Thus by activating the shoulder cell you triggered the process of loading the content of that remote memory in the active memory, causing the aforementioned reaction."

I used  words"shoulder cells hold the bookmarks"because in specific case that I described in my article " Thus by activating the shoulder cell you triggered the process of loading the content of that remote memory in the active memory, causing the aforementioned reaction." how you'll describe the fact that he start crying/releasing emotions, when I did mobilized his shoulder?again no one knows where this memories are stored, but obviously different body parts is" book marking" how you would describe it  if you calling:" factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?just give the definition of this phenomenon.

 

Ravensara Travillian said:

Yes, you quote the context correctly. But how does that context change your factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?

 

Now I know you doing it intentionally, and this is dishonesty.

 

Let's see.

 

*You* falsely accuse me of promoting classes, all the while flogging your own against all the stated policies of this site, and yet *I'm* dishonest?

 

How exactly does that work?

 

Because I'm just not seeing it.

Boris Prilutsky said:

Raven. You continue to distract discussion on phenomena,  Now I know you doing it intentionally, and this is dishonesty.in this post you offerd the sentence from my article:"

But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain."

what you did is to took sentence out of content  to distract important discussion. For your reasons you  have excluded full sentences from my article :

"It's reasonable to assume that the memory of the emotional experience is stored somewhere in the brain - the system that is specialized in memory handling and remained inaccessible, as many other memories a human being experiencing during the life. But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain. "

 no one including you knows where this emotional storage is, but no doubt some where in body cells. Please remember

that our brain contained from cells. Many time during this discussions I stated, that no one knows where this storage is but clinical observation in treatment room is absolutely obvious that this phenomenon is exist, and in my strong opinion we have to be aware about this phenomenon,to look for it as well if it will happen in the treatment room to know that this is positive phenomenon, and to advise to our  clients to release it( to cry it out if needed).this is what my original article post was about.

And I believe this information is important for practitioners, students ect.I do believe in the importance of understanding

but in this case it's not applicable, because no one know where this storage is. In this case what we have to understand

is that phenomenon exist,massage  therapy triggering release of negative emotions, to understand the importance of this releases ect.

Ravensara Travillian said:

And this sentence as well:

 

But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain.

 

The brain doesn't work like a hard disk on a computer, with literal pointers in body cells to hard-coded memory locations on the "disk". It's much more dynamic and complex than that.

 

People need to differentiate between a metaphor and literal meaning.

 

In my opinion, we need more humanities and arts training in massage as well as science and critical thinking. If we understood better how narrative works, we wouldn't constantly fall into traps like confusing metaphor for evidence.

 

In this economic climate, of course, it's probably an impossible dream to expand curricula in that way. But I really would like to see a broad range of disciplines included in massage education, because--as Daniel points out--there is a large artistic component to massage, as well as the science.

 

Understanding narrative, metaphor, and analogy, as well as empirical evidence, would be massively useful skills.

Vlad said:

The title of the post can be edited by the creator of the post or the administrator.

Why can't *someone* (either the moderator of this site or the creator of the post or one of his colleagues ADVISE HIM TO DO IT to stop this) add two words *feels like* to the title of the post and the first sentence ?

 

People need to differentiate between a metaphor and literal meaning. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Ravensara Travillian on May 4, 2011 at 3:12pm

When you make false accusations about me promoting classes that don't even exist, all the while flogging your classes at every opportunity against all published policies of this site, how do you figure that I'm the dishonest one?

Boris Prilutsky said:

 neurophysiology do not explain  where about storages of negative emotions .but  in previous post my question  was and still is:"I used  words"shoulder cells hold the bookmarks"because in specific case that I described in my article " Thus by activating the shoulder cell you triggered the process of loading the content of that remote memory in the active memory, causing the aforementioned reaction." how you'll describe the fact that he start crying/releasing emotions, when I did mobilized his shoulder?again no one knows where this memories are stored, but obviously different body parts is" book marking" how you would describe it  if you calling:" factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?just give the definition of this phenomenon.

 

 

 

Ravensara Travillian said:

again no one knows where this memories are stored

 

Anyone who knows basic neurobiology knows where memories are stored.

 

I'm more curious about how you know I'm dishonest. How do you figure?

 

Specifically, when you make false accusations about me promoting classes that don't even exist, all the while flogging your classes at every opportunity against all published policies of this site, how do you figure that I'm the dishonest one?

Boris Prilutsky said:

Raven.You Wrote:But how does that context change your factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?

I will have again to quote a bit extensively from my article.:"It's reasonable to assume that the memory of the emotional experience is stored somewhere in the brain - the system that is specialized in memory handling and remained inaccessible, as many other memories a human being experiencing during the life. But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain. Thus by activating the shoulder cell you triggered the process of loading the content of that remote memory in the active memory, causing the aforementioned reaction."

I used  words"shoulder cells hold the bookmarks"because in specific case that I described in my article " Thus by activating the shoulder cell you triggered the process of loading the content of that remote memory in the active memory, causing the aforementioned reaction." how you'll describe the fact that he start crying/releasing emotions, when I did mobilized his shoulder?again no one knows where this memories are stored, but obviously different body parts is" book marking" how you would describe it  if you calling:" factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?just give the definition of this phenomenon.

 

Ravensara Travillian said:

Yes, you quote the context correctly. But how does that context change your factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?

 

Now I know you doing it intentionally, and this is dishonesty.

 

Let's see.

 

*You* falsely accuse me of promoting classes, all the while flogging your own against all the stated policies of this site, and yet *I'm* dishonest?

 

How exactly does that work?

 

Because I'm just not seeing it.

Boris Prilutsky said:

Raven. You continue to distract discussion on phenomena,  Now I know you doing it intentionally, and this is dishonesty.in this post you offerd the sentence from my article:"

But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain."

what you did is to took sentence out of content  to distract important discussion. For your reasons you  have excluded full sentences from my article :

"It's reasonable to assume that the memory of the emotional experience is stored somewhere in the brain - the system that is specialized in memory handling and remained inaccessible, as many other memories a human being experiencing during the life. But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain. "

 no one including you knows where this emotional storage is, but no doubt some where in body cells. Please remember

that our brain contained from cells. Many time during this discussions I stated, that no one knows where this storage is but clinical observation in treatment room is absolutely obvious that this phenomenon is exist, and in my strong opinion we have to be aware about this phenomenon,to look for it as well if it will happen in the treatment room to know that this is positive phenomenon, and to advise to our  clients to release it( to cry it out if needed).this is what my original article post was about.

And I believe this information is important for practitioners, students ect.I do believe in the importance of understanding

but in this case it's not applicable, because no one know where this storage is. In this case what we have to understand

is that phenomenon exist,massage  therapy triggering release of negative emotions, to understand the importance of this releases ect.

Ravensara Travillian said:

And this sentence as well:

 

But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain.

 

The brain doesn't work like a hard disk on a computer, with literal pointers in body cells to hard-coded memory locations on the "disk". It's much more dynamic and complex than that.

 

People need to differentiate between a metaphor and literal meaning.

 

In my opinion, we need more humanities and arts training in massage as well as science and critical thinking. If we understood better how narrative works, we wouldn't constantly fall into traps like confusing metaphor for evidence.

 

In this economic climate, of course, it's probably an impossible dream to expand curricula in that way. But I really would like to see a broad range of disciplines included in massage education, because--as Daniel points out--there is a large artistic component to massage, as well as the science.

 

Understanding narrative, metaphor, and analogy, as well as empirical evidence, would be massively useful skills.

Vlad said:

The title of the post can be edited by the creator of the post or the administrator.

Why can't *someone* (either the moderator of this site or the creator of the post or one of his colleagues ADVISE HIM TO DO IT to stop this) add two words *feels like* to the title of the post and the first sentence ?

 

People need to differentiate between a metaphor and literal meaning. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Gary W Addis, LMT on May 4, 2011 at 4:11pm

Ravensara, haven't you, within this thread, mentioned and/or Christoper has mentioned on your behalf, that you do teach (or have in the past taught) special pop MT of some sort?  It's not worth the effort to me to go back weeks in the thread and dig up relevant comments, but I am certain they still exist, somewhere in the nether.  If memory serves, you have been involved in treating victims of trauma of some sort.  IOW, as Boris has, you have provided details of your professional life in order to validate your statements.

 

Postscript to Vlad: You're writing in a forum, not in an academic treatise.  People employ metaphors...exaggerations...inexact wording in describing thoughts to the best of their ability.  Now, why can't your aforementioned "someone" explain to you a surefire method of extracting yourself from this thread: simply let it go, you and chris and raven stop trying to direct/correct/insult a skilled, experienced, highly trained massage therapist who gives freely of his time (via youtube videos and online articles) to encourage and educate anyone with a hunger to learn.  After all, Vlad, Christopher, Ravensara, what is more important? the techniques used and the good results obtained, or the terminology he uses to describe it?  

 

Now, I have admitted a number of times that I am a student, months to go before I sit for the board; I haven't yet been exposed to the energy modalities such as Reiki and Reflexology.  Going in, I admit to skepticism--but I am open.  I will non judgmentally study the energy modalities in the classroom, and hope like hell that I can be convinced...that these popular modalities will someday help me to ease clients' problems and make their lives a wee bit better.  IOW, evidently unlike you and some others, I don't need to examine a technique with a microscope, for if it works, I and clients will be grateful that it does.  And I do mean that quite literally.  

 

 

Ravensara Travillian said:

When you make false accusations about me promoting classes that don't even exist, all the while flogging your classes at every opportunity against all published policies of this site, how do you figure that I'm the dishonest one?

Boris Prilutsky said:

 neurophysiology do not explain  where about storages of negative emotions .but  in previous post my question  was and still is:"I used  words"shoulder cells hold the bookmarks"because in specific case that I described in my article " Thus by activating the shoulder cell you triggered the process of loading the content of that remote memory in the active memory, causing the aforementioned reaction." how you'll describe the fact that he start crying/releasing emotions, when I did mobilized his shoulder?again no one knows where this memories are stored, but obviously different body parts is" book marking" how you would describe it  if you calling:" factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?just give the definition of this phenomenon.

 

 

 

Ravensara Travillian said:

again no one knows where this memories are stored

 

Anyone who knows basic neurobiology knows where memories are stored.

 

I'm more curious about how you know I'm dishonest. How do you figure?

 

Specifically, when you make false accusations about me promoting classes that don't even exist, all the while flogging your classes at every opportunity against all published policies of this site, how do you figure that I'm the dishonest one?

Boris Prilutsky said:

Raven.You Wrote:But how does that context change your factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?

I will have again to quote a bit extensively from my article.:"It's reasonable to assume that the memory of the emotional experience is stored somewhere in the brain - the system that is specialized in memory handling and remained inaccessible, as many other memories a human being experiencing during the life. But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain. Thus by activating the shoulder cell you triggered the process of loading the content of that remote memory in the active memory, causing the aforementioned reaction."

I used  words"shoulder cells hold the bookmarks"because in specific case that I described in my article " Thus by activating the shoulder cell you triggered the process of loading the content of that remote memory in the active memory, causing the aforementioned reaction." how you'll describe the fact that he start crying/releasing emotions, when I did mobilized his shoulder?again no one knows where this memories are stored, but obviously different body parts is" book marking" how you would describe it  if you calling:" factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?just give the definition of this phenomenon.

 

Ravensara Travillian said:

Yes, you quote the context correctly. But how does that context change your factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?

 

Now I know you doing it intentionally, and this is dishonesty.

 

Let's see.

 

*You* falsely accuse me of promoting classes, all the while flogging your own against all the stated policies of this site, and yet *I'm* dishonest?

 

How exactly does that work?

 

Because I'm just not seeing it.

Boris Prilutsky said:

Raven. You continue to distract discussion on phenomena,  Now I know you doing it intentionally, and this is dishonesty.in this post you offerd the sentence from my article:"

But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain."

what you did is to took sentence out of content  to distract important discussion. For your reasons you  have excluded full sentences from my article :

"It's reasonable to assume that the memory of the emotional experience is stored somewhere in the brain - the system that is specialized in memory handling and remained inaccessible, as many other memories a human being experiencing during the life. But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain. "

 no one including you knows where this emotional storage is, but no doubt some where in body cells. Please remember

that our brain contained from cells. Many time during this discussions I stated, that no one knows where this storage is but clinical observation in treatment room is absolutely obvious that this phenomenon is exist, and in my strong opinion we have to be aware about this phenomenon,to look for it as well if it will happen in the treatment room to know that this is positive phenomenon, and to advise to our  clients to release it( to cry it out if needed).this is what my original article post was about.

And I believe this information is important for practitioners, students ect.I do believe in the importance of understanding

but in this case it's not applicable, because no one know where this storage is. In this case what we have to understand

is that phenomenon exist,massage  therapy triggering release of negative emotions, to understand the importance of this releases ect.

Ravensara Travillian said:

And this sentence as well:

 

But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain.

 

The brain doesn't work like a hard disk on a computer, with literal pointers in body cells to hard-coded memory locations on the "disk". It's much more dynamic and complex than that.

 

People need to differentiate between a metaphor and literal meaning.

 

In my opinion, we need more humanities and arts training in massage as well as science and critical thinking. If we understood better how narrative works, we wouldn't constantly fall into traps like confusing metaphor for evidence.

 

In this economic climate, of course, it's probably an impossible dream to expand curricula in that way. But I really would like to see a broad range of disciplines included in massage education, because--as Daniel points out--there is a large artistic component to massage, as well as the science.

 

Understanding narrative, metaphor, and analogy, as well as empirical evidence, would be massively useful skills.

Vlad said:

The title of the post can be edited by the creator of the post or the administrator.

Why can't *someone* (either the moderator of this site or the creator of the post or one of his colleagues ADVISE HIM TO DO IT to stop this) add two words *feels like* to the title of the post and the first sentence ?

 

People need to differentiate between a metaphor and literal meaning. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Boris Prilutsky on May 4, 2011 at 4:18pm

t

his is nothing wrong to promote seminars, at  this site,as well to open up different discussison, what is wrong is to distract  discussison,to make statements like:":" factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?"

and then not to answer my questions, is not really  honest behavior. Let's try again.

neurophysiology do not explain  where about storages of negative emotions .but  in previous post my question  was and still is:"I used  words"shoulder cells hold the bookmarks"because in specific case that I described in my article " Thus by activating the shoulder cell you triggered the process of loading the content of that remote memory in the active memory, causing the aforementioned reaction." how you'll describe the fact that he start crying/releasing emotions, when I did mobilized his shoulder?again no one knows where this memories are stored, but obviously different body parts is" book marking" how you would describe it  if you calling:" factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?just give the definition of this phenomenon

Ravensara Travillian said:

When you make false accusations about me promoting classes that don't even exist, all the while flogging your classes at every opportunity against all published policies of this site, how do you figure that I'm the dishonest one?

Boris Prilutsky said:

 neurophysiology do not explain  where about storages of negative emotions .but  in previous post my question  was and still is:"I used  words"shoulder cells hold the bookmarks"because in specific case that I described in my article " Thus by activating the shoulder cell you triggered the process of loading the content of that remote memory in the active memory, causing the aforementioned reaction." how you'll describe the fact that he start crying/releasing emotions, when I did mobilized his shoulder?again no one knows where this memories are stored, but obviously different body parts is" book marking" how you would describe it  if you calling:" factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?just give the definition of this phenomenon.

 

 

 

Ravensara Travillian said:

again no one knows where this memories are stored

 

Anyone who knows basic neurobiology knows where memories are stored.

 

I'm more curious about how you know I'm dishonest. How do you figure?

 

Specifically, when you make false accusations about me promoting classes that don't even exist, all the while flogging your classes at every opportunity against all published policies of this site, how do you figure that I'm the dishonest one?

Boris Prilutsky said:

Raven.You Wrote:But how does that context change your factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?

I will have again to quote a bit extensively from my article.:"It's reasonable to assume that the memory of the emotional experience is stored somewhere in the brain - the system that is specialized in memory handling and remained inaccessible, as many other memories a human being experiencing during the life. But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain. Thus by activating the shoulder cell you triggered the process of loading the content of that remote memory in the active memory, causing the aforementioned reaction."

I used  words"shoulder cells hold the bookmarks"because in specific case that I described in my article " Thus by activating the shoulder cell you triggered the process of loading the content of that remote memory in the active memory, causing the aforementioned reaction." how you'll describe the fact that he start crying/releasing emotions, when I did mobilized his shoulder?again no one knows where this memories are stored, but obviously different body parts is" book marking" how you would describe it  if you calling:" factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?just give the definition of this phenomenon.

 

Ravensara Travillian said:

Yes, you quote the context correctly. But how does that context change your factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?

 

Now I know you doing it intentionally, and this is dishonesty.

 

Let's see.

 

*You* falsely accuse me of promoting classes, all the while flogging your own against all the stated policies of this site, and yet *I'm* dishonest?

 

How exactly does that work?

 

Because I'm just not seeing it.

Boris Prilutsky said:

Raven. You continue to distract discussion on phenomena,  Now I know you doing it intentionally, and this is dishonesty.in this post you offerd the sentence from my article:"

But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain."

what you did is to took sentence out of content  to distract important discussion. For your reasons you  have excluded full sentences from my article :

"It's reasonable to assume that the memory of the emotional experience is stored somewhere in the brain - the system that is specialized in memory handling and remained inaccessible, as many other memories a human being experiencing during the life. But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain. "

 no one including you knows where this emotional storage is, but no doubt some where in body cells. Please remember

that our brain contained from cells. Many time during this discussions I stated, that no one knows where this storage is but clinical observation in treatment room is absolutely obvious that this phenomenon is exist, and in my strong opinion we have to be aware about this phenomenon,to look for it as well if it will happen in the treatment room to know that this is positive phenomenon, and to advise to our  clients to release it( to cry it out if needed).this is what my original article post was about.

And I believe this information is important for practitioners, students ect.I do believe in the importance of understanding

but in this case it's not applicable, because no one know where this storage is. In this case what we have to understand

is that phenomenon exist,massage  therapy triggering release of negative emotions, to understand the importance of this releases ect.

Ravensara Travillian said:

And this sentence as well:

 

But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain.

 

The brain doesn't work like a hard disk on a computer, with literal pointers in body cells to hard-coded memory locations on the "disk". It's much more dynamic and complex than that.

 

People need to differentiate between a metaphor and literal meaning.

 

In my opinion, we need more humanities and arts training in massage as well as science and critical thinking. If we understood better how narrative works, we wouldn't constantly fall into traps like confusing metaphor for evidence.

 

In this economic climate, of course, it's probably an impossible dream to expand curricula in that way. But I really would like to see a broad range of disciplines included in massage education, because--as Daniel points out--there is a large artistic component to massage, as well as the science.

 

Understanding narrative, metaphor, and analogy, as well as empirical evidence, would be massively useful skills.

Vlad said:

The title of the post can be edited by the creator of the post or the administrator.

Why can't *someone* (either the moderator of this site or the creator of the post or one of his colleagues ADVISE HIM TO DO IT to stop this) add two words *feels like* to the title of the post and the first sentence ?

 

People need to differentiate between a metaphor and literal meaning. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Ravensara Travillian on May 4, 2011 at 4:22pm

you and chris and raven stop trying to direct/correct/insult a skilled, experienced, highly trained massage therapist who gives freely of his time

 

I am a skilled, experienced, highly-trained massage therapist who gives freely of my time.

 

Why doesn't the fact that Boris constantly changes his stories about misrepresenting neurobiology, makes false accusations about classes I never promoted because they don't exist, loses his temper in public, and calls me dishonest bother you that he is trying to direct/correct/insult me?

 

 

Gary W Addis said:

Ravensara, haven't you, within this thread, mentioned and/or Christoper has mentioned on your behalf, that you do teach (or have in the past taught) special pop MT of some sort?  It's not worth the effort to me to go back weeks in the thread and dig up relevant comments, but I am certain they still exist, somewhere in the nether.  If memory serves, you have been involved in treating victims of trauma of some sort.  IOW, as Boris has, you have provided details of your professional life in order to validate your statements.

 

Postscript to Vlad: You're writing in a forum, not in an academic treatise.  People employ metaphors...exaggerations...inexact wording in describing thoughts to the best of their ability.  Now, why can't your aforementioned "someone" explain to you a surefire method of extracting yourself from this thread: simply let it go, you and chris and raven stop trying to direct/correct/insult a skilled, experienced, highly trained massage therapist who gives freely of his time (via youtube videos and online articles) to encourage and educate anyone with a hunger to learn.  After all, Vlad, Christopher, Ravensara, what is more important? the techniques used and the good results obtained, or the terminology he uses to describe it?  

 

Now, I have admitted a number of times that I am a student, months to go before I sit for the board; I haven't yet been exposed to the energy modalities such as Reiki and Reflexology.  Going in, I admit to skepticism--but I am open.  I will non judgmentally study the energy modalities in the classroom, and hope like hell that I can be convinced...that these popular modalities will someday help me to ease clients' problems and make their lives a wee bit better.  IOW, evidently unlike you and some others, I don't need to examine a technique with a microscope, for if it works, I and clients will be grateful that it does.  And I do mean that quite literally.  

 

 

Ravensara Travillian said:

When you make false accusations about me promoting classes that don't even exist, all the while flogging your classes at every opportunity against all published policies of this site, how do you figure that I'm the dishonest one?

Boris Prilutsky said:

 neurophysiology do not explain  where about storages of negative emotions .but  in previous post my question  was and still is:"I used  words"shoulder cells hold the bookmarks"because in specific case that I described in my article " Thus by activating the shoulder cell you triggered the process of loading the content of that remote memory in the active memory, causing the aforementioned reaction." how you'll describe the fact that he start crying/releasing emotions, when I did mobilized his shoulder?again no one knows where this memories are stored, but obviously different body parts is" book marking" how you would describe it  if you calling:" factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?just give the definition of this phenomenon.

 

 

 

Ravensara Travillian said:

again no one knows where this memories are stored

 

Anyone who knows basic neurobiology knows where memories are stored.

 

I'm more curious about how you know I'm dishonest. How do you figure?

 

Specifically, when you make false accusations about me promoting classes that don't even exist, all the while flogging your classes at every opportunity against all published policies of this site, how do you figure that I'm the dishonest one?

Boris Prilutsky said:

Raven.You Wrote:But how does that context change your factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?

I will have again to quote a bit extensively from my article.:"It's reasonable to assume that the memory of the emotional experience is stored somewhere in the brain - the system that is specialized in memory handling and remained inaccessible, as many other memories a human being experiencing during the life. But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain. Thus by activating the shoulder cell you triggered the process of loading the content of that remote memory in the active memory, causing the aforementioned reaction."

I used  words"shoulder cells hold the bookmarks"because in specific case that I described in my article " Thus by activating the shoulder cell you triggered the process of loading the content of that remote memory in the active memory, causing the aforementioned reaction." how you'll describe the fact that he start crying/releasing emotions, when I did mobilized his shoulder?again no one knows where this memories are stored, but obviously different body parts is" book marking" how you would describe it  if you calling:" factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?just give the definition of this phenomenon.

 

Ravensara Travillian said:

Yes, you quote the context correctly. But how does that context change your factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?

 

Now I know you doing it intentionally, and this is dishonesty.

 

Let's see.

 

*You* falsely accuse me of promoting classes, all the while flogging your own against all the stated policies of this site, and yet *I'm* dishonest?

 

How exactly does that work?

 

Because I'm just not seeing it.

Boris Prilutsky said:

Raven. You continue to distract discussion on phenomena,  Now I know you doing it intentionally, and this is dishonesty.in this post you offerd the sentence from my article:"

But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain."

what you did is to took sentence out of content  to distract important discussion. For your reasons you  have excluded full sentences from my article :

"It's reasonable to assume that the memory of the emotional experience is stored somewhere in the brain - the system that is specialized in memory handling and remained inaccessible, as many other memories a human being experiencing during the life. But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain. "

 no one including you knows where this emotional storage is, but no doubt some where in body cells. Please remember

that our brain contained from cells. Many time during this discussions I stated, that no one knows where this storage is but clinical observation in treatment room is absolutely obvious that this phenomenon is exist, and in my strong opinion we have to be aware about this phenomenon,to look for it as well if it will happen in the treatment room to know that this is positive phenomenon, and to advise to our  clients to release it( to cry it out if needed).this is what my original article post was about.

And I believe this information is important for practitioners, students ect.I do believe in the importance of understanding

but in this case it's not applicable, because no one know where this storage is. In this case what we have to understand

is that phenomenon exist,massage  therapy triggering release of negative emotions, to understand the importance of this releases ect.

Ravensara Travillian said:

And this sentence as well:

 

But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain.

 

The brain doesn't work like a hard disk on a computer, with literal pointers in body cells to hard-coded memory locations on the "disk". It's much more dynamic and complex than that.

 

People need to differentiate between a metaphor and literal meaning.

 

In my opinion, we need more humanities and arts training in massage as well as science and critical thinking. If we understood better how narrative works, we wouldn't constantly fall into traps like confusing metaphor for evidence.

 

In this economic climate, of course, it's probably an impossible dream to expand curricula in that way. But I really would like to see a broad range of disciplines included in massage education, because--as Daniel points out--there is a large artistic component to massage, as well as the science.

 

Understanding narrative, metaphor, and analogy, as well as empirical evidence, would be massively useful skills.

Vlad said:

The title of the post can be edited by the creator of the post or the administrator.

Why can't *someone* (either the moderator of this site or the creator of the post or one of his colleagues ADVISE HIM TO DO IT to stop this) add two words *feels like* to the title of the post and the first sentence ?

 

People need to differentiate between a metaphor and literal meaning. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Ravensara Travillian on May 4, 2011 at 4:27pm

This all flared up again because Marion asked me a question and I answered it. This thread was dead until then.

 

Just like when Stephen asked me about my clinical experience, and I answered the question. Boris then exploded at me, accused me of dishonesty among other things, and was really abusive.

 

I get asked a question, I answer it, and then am promptly sandbagged for doing so.

 

If we're so evolved and professional and everything, why does this kind of bullying behavior get a total pass on this site? Do we have no standards at all for civil, professional discourse?

Gary W Addis said:

Ravensara, haven't you, within this thread, mentioned and/or Christoper has mentioned on your behalf, that you do teach (or have in the past taught) special pop MT of some sort?  It's not worth the effort to me to go back weeks in the thread and dig up relevant comments, but I am certain they still exist, somewhere in the nether.  If memory serves, you have been involved in treating victims of trauma of some sort.  IOW, as Boris has, you have provided details of your professional life in order to validate your statements.

 

Postscript to Vlad: You're writing in a forum, not in an academic treatise.  People employ metaphors...exaggerations...inexact wording in describing thoughts to the best of their ability.  Now, why can't your aforementioned "someone" explain to you a surefire method of extracting yourself from this thread: simply let it go, you and chris and raven stop trying to direct/correct/insult a skilled, experienced, highly trained massage therapist who gives freely of his time (via youtube videos and online articles) to encourage and educate anyone with a hunger to learn.  After all, Vlad, Christopher, Ravensara, what is more important? the techniques used and the good results obtained, or the terminology he uses to describe it?  

 

Now, I have admitted a number of times that I am a student, months to go before I sit for the board; I haven't yet been exposed to the energy modalities such as Reiki and Reflexology.  Going in, I admit to skepticism--but I am open.  I will non judgmentally study the energy modalities in the classroom, and hope like hell that I can be convinced...that these popular modalities will someday help me to ease clients' problems and make their lives a wee bit better.  IOW, evidently unlike you and some others, I don't need to examine a technique with a microscope, for if it works, I and clients will be grateful that it does.  And I do mean that quite literally.  

 

 

Ravensara Travillian said:

When you make false accusations about me promoting classes that don't even exist, all the while flogging your classes at every opportunity against all published policies of this site, how do you figure that I'm the dishonest one?

Boris Prilutsky said:

 neurophysiology do not explain  where about storages of negative emotions .but  in previous post my question  was and still is:"I used  words"shoulder cells hold the bookmarks"because in specific case that I described in my article " Thus by activating the shoulder cell you triggered the process of loading the content of that remote memory in the active memory, causing the aforementioned reaction." how you'll describe the fact that he start crying/releasing emotions, when I did mobilized his shoulder?again no one knows where this memories are stored, but obviously different body parts is" book marking" how you would describe it  if you calling:" factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?just give the definition of this phenomenon.

 

 

 

Ravensara Travillian said:

again no one knows where this memories are stored

 

Anyone who knows basic neurobiology knows where memories are stored.

 

I'm more curious about how you know I'm dishonest. How do you figure?

 

Specifically, when you make false accusations about me promoting classes that don't even exist, all the while flogging your classes at every opportunity against all published policies of this site, how do you figure that I'm the dishonest one?

Boris Prilutsky said:

Raven.You Wrote:But how does that context change your factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?

I will have again to quote a bit extensively from my article.:"It's reasonable to assume that the memory of the emotional experience is stored somewhere in the brain - the system that is specialized in memory handling and remained inaccessible, as many other memories a human being experiencing during the life. But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain. Thus by activating the shoulder cell you triggered the process of loading the content of that remote memory in the active memory, causing the aforementioned reaction."

I used  words"shoulder cells hold the bookmarks"because in specific case that I described in my article " Thus by activating the shoulder cell you triggered the process of loading the content of that remote memory in the active memory, causing the aforementioned reaction." how you'll describe the fact that he start crying/releasing emotions, when I did mobilized his shoulder?again no one knows where this memories are stored, but obviously different body parts is" book marking" how you would describe it  if you calling:" factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?just give the definition of this phenomenon.

 

Ravensara Travillian said:

Yes, you quote the context correctly. But how does that context change your factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?

 

Now I know you doing it intentionally, and this is dishonesty.

 

Let's see.

 

*You* falsely accuse me of promoting classes, all the while flogging your own against all the stated policies of this site, and yet *I'm* dishonest?

 

How exactly does that work?

 

Because I'm just not seeing it.

Boris Prilutsky said:

Raven. You continue to distract discussion on phenomena,  Now I know you doing it intentionally, and this is dishonesty.in this post you offerd the sentence from my article:"

But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain."

what you did is to took sentence out of content  to distract important discussion. For your reasons you  have excluded full sentences from my article :

"It's reasonable to assume that the memory of the emotional experience is stored somewhere in the brain - the system that is specialized in memory handling and remained inaccessible, as many other memories a human being experiencing during the life. But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain. "

 no one including you knows where this emotional storage is, but no doubt some where in body cells. Please remember

that our brain contained from cells. Many time during this discussions I stated, that no one knows where this storage is but clinical observation in treatment room is absolutely obvious that this phenomenon is exist, and in my strong opinion we have to be aware about this phenomenon,to look for it as well if it will happen in the treatment room to know that this is positive phenomenon, and to advise to our  clients to release it( to cry it out if needed).this is what my original article post was about.

And I believe this information is important for practitioners, students ect.I do believe in the importance of understanding

but in this case it's not applicable, because no one know where this storage is. In this case what we have to understand

is that phenomenon exist,massage  therapy triggering release of negative emotions, to understand the importance of this releases ect.

Ravensara Travillian said:

And this sentence as well:

 

But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain.

 

The brain doesn't work like a hard disk on a computer, with literal pointers in body cells to hard-coded memory locations on the "disk". It's much more dynamic and complex than that.

 

People need to differentiate between a metaphor and literal meaning.

 

In my opinion, we need more humanities and arts training in massage as well as science and critical thinking. If we understood better how narrative works, we wouldn't constantly fall into traps like confusing metaphor for evidence.

 

In this economic climate, of course, it's probably an impossible dream to expand curricula in that way. But I really would like to see a broad range of disciplines included in massage education, because--as Daniel points out--there is a large artistic component to massage, as well as the science.

 

Understanding narrative, metaphor, and analogy, as well as empirical evidence, would be massively useful skills.

Vlad said:

The title of the post can be edited by the creator of the post or the administrator.

Why can't *someone* (either the moderator of this site or the creator of the post or one of his colleagues ADVISE HIM TO DO IT to stop this) add two words *feels like* to the title of the post and the first sentence ?

 

People need to differentiate between a metaphor and literal meaning. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Ravensara Travillian on May 4, 2011 at 4:39pm

As long as you continue to call me dishonest, Boris, I'm not bothering with you any more.

 

Boris Prilutsky said:

t

his is nothing wrong to promote seminars, at  this site,as well to open up different discussison, what is wrong is to distract  discussison,to make statements like:":" factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?"

and then not to answer my questions, is not really  honest behavior. Let's try again.

neurophysiology do not explain  where about storages of negative emotions .but  in previous post my question  was and still is:"I used  words"shoulder cells hold the bookmarks"because in specific case that I described in my article " Thus by activating the shoulder cell you triggered the process of loading the content of that remote memory in the active memory, causing the aforementioned reaction." how you'll describe the fact that he start crying/releasing emotions, when I did mobilized his shoulder?again no one knows where this memories are stored, but obviously different body parts is" book marking" how you would describe it  if you calling:" factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?just give the definition of this phenomenon

Ravensara Travillian said:

When you make false accusations about me promoting classes that don't even exist, all the while flogging your classes at every opportunity against all published policies of this site, how do you figure that I'm the dishonest one?

Boris Prilutsky said:

 neurophysiology do not explain  where about storages of negative emotions .but  in previous post my question  was and still is:"I used  words"shoulder cells hold the bookmarks"because in specific case that I described in my article " Thus by activating the shoulder cell you triggered the process of loading the content of that remote memory in the active memory, causing the aforementioned reaction." how you'll describe the fact that he start crying/releasing emotions, when I did mobilized his shoulder?again no one knows where this memories are stored, but obviously different body parts is" book marking" how you would describe it  if you calling:" factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?just give the definition of this phenomenon.

 

 

 

Ravensara Travillian said:

again no one knows where this memories are stored

 

Anyone who knows basic neurobiology knows where memories are stored.

 

I'm more curious about how you know I'm dishonest. How do you figure?

 

Specifically, when you make false accusations about me promoting classes that don't even exist, all the while flogging your classes at every opportunity against all published policies of this site, how do you figure that I'm the dishonest one?

Boris Prilutsky said:

Raven.You Wrote:But how does that context change your factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?

I will have again to quote a bit extensively from my article.:"It's reasonable to assume that the memory of the emotional experience is stored somewhere in the brain - the system that is specialized in memory handling and remained inaccessible, as many other memories a human being experiencing during the life. But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain. Thus by activating the shoulder cell you triggered the process of loading the content of that remote memory in the active memory, causing the aforementioned reaction."

I used  words"shoulder cells hold the bookmarks"because in specific case that I described in my article " Thus by activating the shoulder cell you triggered the process of loading the content of that remote memory in the active memory, causing the aforementioned reaction." how you'll describe the fact that he start crying/releasing emotions, when I did mobilized his shoulder?again no one knows where this memories are stored, but obviously different body parts is" book marking" how you would describe it  if you calling:" factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?just give the definition of this phenomenon.

 

Ravensara Travillian said:

Yes, you quote the context correctly. But how does that context change your factually incorrect statement about shoulder cells holding a bookmark?

 

Now I know you doing it intentionally, and this is dishonesty.

 

Let's see.

 

*You* falsely accuse me of promoting classes, all the while flogging your own against all the stated policies of this site, and yet *I'm* dishonest?

 

How exactly does that work?

 

Because I'm just not seeing it.

Boris Prilutsky said:

Raven. You continue to distract discussion on phenomena,  Now I know you doing it intentionally, and this is dishonesty.in this post you offerd the sentence from my article:"

But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain."

what you did is to took sentence out of content  to distract important discussion. For your reasons you  have excluded full sentences from my article :

"It's reasonable to assume that the memory of the emotional experience is stored somewhere in the brain - the system that is specialized in memory handling and remained inaccessible, as many other memories a human being experiencing during the life. But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain. "

 no one including you knows where this emotional storage is, but no doubt some where in body cells. Please remember

that our brain contained from cells. Many time during this discussions I stated, that no one knows where this storage is but clinical observation in treatment room is absolutely obvious that this phenomenon is exist, and in my strong opinion we have to be aware about this phenomenon,to look for it as well if it will happen in the treatment room to know that this is positive phenomenon, and to advise to our  clients to release it( to cry it out if needed).this is what my original article post was about.

And I believe this information is important for practitioners, students ect.I do believe in the importance of understanding

but in this case it's not applicable, because no one know where this storage is. In this case what we have to understand

is that phenomenon exist,massage  therapy triggering release of negative emotions, to understand the importance of this releases ect.

Ravensara Travillian said:

And this sentence as well:

 

But the shoulder cells hold the bookmark or a memory address of where the actual memories of the incident were stored in the brain.

 

The brain doesn't work like a hard disk on a computer, with literal pointers in body cells to hard-coded memory locations on the "disk". It's much more dynamic and complex than that.

 

People need to differentiate between a metaphor and literal meaning.

 

In my opinion, we need more humanities and arts training in massage as well as science and critical thinking. If we understood better how narrative works, we wouldn't constantly fall into traps like confusing metaphor for evidence.

 

In this economic climate, of course, it's probably an impossible dream to expand curricula in that way. But I really would like to see a broad range of disciplines included in massage education, because--as Daniel points out--there is a large artistic component to massage, as well as the science.

 

Understanding narrative, metaphor, and analogy, as well as empirical evidence, would be massively useful skills.

Vlad said:

The title of the post can be edited by the creator of the post or the administrator.

Why can't *someone* (either the moderator of this site or the creator of the post or one of his colleagues ADVISE HIM TO DO IT to stop this) add two words *feels like* to the title of the post and the first sentence ?

 

People need to differentiate between a metaphor and literal meaning. 

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