massage and bodywork professionals
a community of practitioners
Complementary skill in know-nothing novice
Hi. I'm looking into training in massage therapy, however I have a bit of a weird situation.
I use a method of provoking my body to give me movement indications and instructions as to what it would prefer I do with it. This works wonders for diet, as well as in several other areas. I also use it when I massage. I am terrible at massage, unless I pay attention to those movement indications. That changes everything, for the better.
I asked someone to compare my massages with this to one they just received from a 20 year professional. The comparison was that I was just as good, however for entirely different reasons. The pro had skill and technique, as well as strength and stamina, but remained in areas a little too long, applied wrong amounts of pressure at times, and followed their routine. All I have going for me is I always know exactly what area to move to and how much pressure to apply. I'm frequently told I suddenly changed areas to where the subject wants me to go just before they were about to say something, which is pretty cool I suppose. I have no technique, skill or stamina. I know where to go and how much pressure to apply, but the rest I basically make up as I go along.
What I do also has limitations, I'm hoping mostly due to lack of practice. I can only get instructions in one hand at a time, so the other hand either mirrors on the other side, tries to assist the hand I'm using, or does nothing. A sort of mental stress builds up if I try to pay attention to both at the same time. Also, if the person tries directing me, that can also build up that same stress, as it feels like I'm getting two separate sets of directions. This tends to happen in the beginning a lot, as normally someone tells me to work on a particular area, but the instructions I'm getting want me to start a bit far from the area, and sort of end up drifting slowly towards it.
Another limitation is this method is linked to other social instincts, and I'm unsure if I could get it working with a general stranger. If that's the case, I'd need to sort of interview/get to know clients beforehand if I did become a professional. Either that, or have a massage routine I fall back on when I'm flying blind, so to speak.
So, my question is, with this strange skill, and the desire to incorporate it into training for an actual career, what would you recommend I do for training and dealing with the classroom setting? How would you recommend I incorporate it into a career? Since it's important in massage to listen to the client, and this basically requires ignoring the client's words and how the client's muscles feel, etc, can the two be combined at all? What would you do if you knew exactly where to go and what pressure to apply, but had these limitations too?
Views: 1014
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on
-
It doesn't matter. If you want to be a professional Massage Therapist you will have to go to a Massage School, pass their criteria, procedures, and routines. Then once you get your license. You can do what you want.
-
Permalink Reply by Sadan Yagci on
-
It matters to me on deciding how to go about this, or if I should go about this at all.
I'm well aware I'll have to pass their criteria. That doesn't address my concerns.
Gordon J. Wallis said:It doesn't matter. If you want to be a professional Massage Therapist you will have to go to a Massage School, pass their criteria, procedures, and routines. Then once you get your license. You can do what you want.
-
-
So you can't free your mind and learn anything new or different? Its stopped learning?
Sadan Yagci said:It matters to me on deciding how to go about this, or if I should go about this at all.
I'm well aware I'll have to pass their criteria. That doesn't address my concerns.
Gordon J. Wallis said:It doesn't matter. If you want to be a professional Massage Therapist you will have to go to a Massage School, pass their criteria, procedures, and routines. Then once you get your license. You can do what you want.
-
-
Where did I say I won't learn anything new or different? The point is to learn something different. It's how to go about that learning, and what to do with it afterwards in an actual career that's the question. That's what I'm looking for advice about. I've never been to massage school before. I don't know how it is or if there's something I should be aware of beforehand. I've never worked in this field before, so I don't know in that area either. That's why I'm asking those who have been there, and why I asked specific questions. You threw it off with "It doesn't matter." It does matter. It matters to me.
-
-
Don't get me wrong. What do you want anybody in here to say? Go to massage school, you will love it? Or don't go you will hate it? I love being a massage therapist. I 'don't know if you will. I don't think anybody in here can advise you. I could be wrong? I would suggest that you visit a Massage school ot two.. Check em out. Meet some of the teachers. Look over the materials..Maybe ask if you can sit in on a class or two.. A class room setting and a hands on setting. Then you will have some real insight on what you want to do. I love being a massage therapist.
Sadan Yagci said:Where did I say I won't learn anything new or different? The point is to learn something different. It's how to go about that learning, and what to do with it afterwards in an actual career that's the question. That's what I'm looking for advice about. I've never been to massage school before. I don't know how it is or if there's something I should be aware of beforehand. I've never worked in this field before, so I don't know in that area either. That's why I'm asking those who have been there, and why I asked specific questions. You threw it off with "It doesn't matter." It does matter. It matters to me.
-
-
I can do anything and like it just fine. My concerns weren't whether I'll enjoy it or not. There are ups and downs in every field. My concern is whether, given the situation I find myself, the two methods can be merged and how to go about the learning process and using it in a career, given the limitations I'm finding. I'm looking for advice as to how to go about this whole thing. That's why I explained the limitations of what I do. If my method and this field can't co-exist, then there's no point in going into it, as A: it's a saturated market, and B: it would only be a job, rather than helpful for my research long term.
-
-
You have to have no limitations if you want to learn. If those are real limitations you discribed. Then don't go to massage school. Thats my advise. if you don't want to take my advice.. Get some professional massages, visit some massage schools. And make up your own mind. Its like advising you on religion.. Should I be a Hindu or not? I'm thinking about it. I have limitations. I can really only do things the Christian way.
Sadan Yagci said:I can do anything and like it just fine. My concerns weren't whether I'll enjoy it or not. There are ups and downs in every field. My concern is whether, given the situation I find myself, the two methods can be merged and how to go about the learning process and using it in a career, given the limitations I'm finding. I'm looking for advice as to how to go about this whole thing. That's why I explained the limitations of what I do. If my method and this field can't co-exist, then there's no point in going into it, as A: it's a saturated market, and B: it would only be a job, rather than helpful for my research long term.
-
-
Those aren't my limitations. Those are the limitations of the method I'm intending on going into massage therapy to understand better, and to see if I can use it in a professional capacity. They are real limits in this method I discovered. I'm still trying to understand how it functions. I've spent the last 2 years testing it to see if something's really going on or if it's just one of those situations where the body and mind play tricks, as well as finding other people to test it themselves to determine if others can get it working and if it behaves the same or not across individuals and cultures. This is the first area I've determined where it would fit in in a professional rather than personal capacity.
These are actual limits. The mental strain I mentioned is a real limitation that feels very different from most mental fatigue or stress, and if ignored it can lead to side effects, including the temporary loss of social speech. It's not fun. This is a real thing I'm experimenting with, and that's what it is to me. An experiment to see what this is, how it functions, what uses it has, and how it can be integrated into personal and professional life. It's not like advising me on religion. It's advising me whether an experiment is a good idea based on an objective analysis of your experience compared to my description of the different aspects of my methodology, especially considering its limitations.
-
Permalink Reply by Gary W Addis, LMT on
-
Sadan, we ALL go where the tissue tells us to go... we all play it by ear. Quite often, we have to urge the client to relax, and just let us do our jobs to the best of our ability.
Oh, sure, after serving X years as a massage therapists, some become bored, and fall into a rut, giving cookie-cutter massages. On that particular day, however, the 20-year veteran may have been tired after providing seven or eight massages that day... 30 or so in the last five days. Or, being human and as imperfect as we all are, may have merely been distracted due to family problems. No offense, but it's a certainty that the 20-year veteran has more skills and knowledge, and natural ability than you now have.
Sadan, the concern other respondents to your thread indirectly have expressed is that if you aren't careful, your ego will surely interfere with your ability to learn. You may be naturally gifted, but I promise you, you are not, and may never attain the skills of even a newly licensed massage therapist unless you enroll in a quality school.
I advise you to examine the curriculum of a reputable therapeutic massage school. You can learn the basics of, and provide a decent Swedish massage after a few weeks, which is more than you are capable of doing now, no matter how gifted you are.
However, to get a good grounding in anatomy & physiology, kineseology, pathology, Myofascial Release, Reflexology, Therapeutic Touch, Neuromuscular Therapy (i.e., trigger point therapy) will require at a minimum a year of schooling-- and to become competent and able to effectively treat anyone who comes in your door will require many, many years. Gordon Wallis has been practicing for 30+ years, and he'll tell you that he never stops learning...never has satisfied his thirst for knowledge.
Forgive my bluntness, but judging by your comment, you seem to believe you already know all you need to learn. I assure you: you do not.
What "this method" are you referring to? The brand new method you believe you have stumbled upon that is so different form what professional LMTs are doing? Sadan, take my word for it or not (you probably won't), there is nothing new under the sun.
Alright, now a discussion about the profession. Giving 5-8 massages in a day, 30 or more in a 5 day period is very hard on the therapist-- hands, knees, low back even when the MT uses perfect form. The money is variable. Some of us have full schedules though our fee is $100 or more per hour of massage. But thousands work in a chain massage business for as little as $15 per massage. Licensing fees vary from $150 per renewal period to as high as $600. Then there are the required CEUs. Like public school teachers, we are required to attend x number of credit hours of continuing education classes every year. Depending on the modality studied this can cost the LMT anywhere from $400 to $1,000 per year. This is determined by the state licensing boards, has no bearing whether you work in an established massage clinic or chiropractic office or physical therapist's office or as a sole practitioner working for yourself.
The profession has intangible benefits. The smiles of gratitude I receive when I relieve a client's pain and restore their freedom of movement is worth a lawyer's income to me.
-
-
The tissue doesn't tell me. I can't tell a thing from what I feel in the tissue. I can't even usually tell if it's tense or not, and I tend to squeeze too hard and do things too extreme.
The movement indications are what tell me. In areas that are uncontrollable, instead of movement indications the muscles move autonomicly. In areas that are controllable, a light sensation can be found there as long as attention is on that body part. The sensation moves around in the area, in the direction the body wants the body part to move. I didn't discover something new. I discovered what was already there and figured out how to provoke it, to see what happened. It has multiple functions. Many things it cares nothing about. Some things it responds to with muscle memory, such as putting attention on a keyboard. The indications in a touch typist lead the fingers to the home row. In other subjects, it has nothing to do with muscle memory. Indications change depending on bodily needs. If there's strained muscle, my body will lead me through motions that will fix it or greatly relieve it. Compare that to every time I've tried to fix such things myself. My way makes it worse. It's way makes it better. It knows better what I need to eat than I do, and directs certain amounts. It knows better how to do quite a few things. I've also found that if something goes against its programming, what ever that programming is, it can sometimes fix the person. Since it's the same system that creates cravings and aversions, it can take away desire. It's also caused nauseous pain in a bulimic that felt the need to binge. The pain greatly helped prevent that cycle from starting. Basically, if it's a problem related to being human, this thing seems to provide instructions for it.
That's my research. It has nothing to do with massage, except that there's apparently a massage function with massage instructions that have some pretty great results. Is it new? I hope not, because someone else exploring it would make research much easier. Then I could collaborate with someone. As it is, I'm pretty much on my own trying to test it out in different scenarios and find other people to perform experiments on it as well.
I don't know anything about massage. That's the point. This does. It's some type of massage instinct, and the only reason I know anything about it is because I figured out how to get the body to respond clearly to inquiries, physically. I don't tell anyone to relax. I don't do anything. I put my attention in the appropriate place and the rest is just me trying to follow the directions. If I teach the other person how to notice the indications and follow them, they'll get the same instructions.
I'm not naturally gifted for massage. If I am, then everyone is, as everyone I've tested so far seems to have the same programming. Granted, I've only taught the massage thing to two people, and other aspects to 10. I really need test subjects.
I don't know any type of massage. I don't know anything. I'm well aware I know nothing about this field. There's nothing new under the sun, but there is learning something new. There is finding more out about how something works. I am discovering the underlying functions of human instincts and how to best use them. Is that new? As far as I can tell, no one has published anything on what I have been working on.
Which brings me to the point. My goal is to merge this method with the massage industry, or see if that's even possible. I don't care about the earnings or the licensing fees. I don't care about the continuing education classes. If I find the two can be merged, I'm sure I'll find all the different techniques useful. If I can't merge them, it would be useless for my research, and I wouldn't be able to bring anything to the field, which makes it pointless. I can't ignore the instructions, as in the long term I want more integration with them, and so not using them in the long-term would be counterproductive. I could possibly ignore them during training, but not forever.
Which brings me back to my original questions. Would the limitations I mentioned be problematic in the industry or in training? Do any of you have any advice for incorporation of this method? What would you do if you got constant pressure and direction indication completely separate from what you feel in the person's tissues and hear from their mouth?
-
-
Sigh. You need "test Subjects". But not until after you obtain the education to know what the hell you're feeling. For instance, without looking it up, explain the function of the levator scapula, and its origin and attachment...the anconeus...the sphenoid bone. Explain the planes of the body, what is the definition of cephalid and caudal.
Instincts? The most important instinct is to fight to live or to run like hell when faced with danger.
This thing you're talking about is, what? universal chi (energy of the universe) zipping around in the body waiting for you to feel it. The "indications" in a touch typist are called "muscle memory"-- proprioception established by much repetition-- if it were instinctual--natural--we'd all at birth be able to type 90 wpm, be able to catch any baseball tossed near us with our eyes closed.
Muscle strains are microscopic injury to one or more agonist muscles; they cannot be fixed by instinctive manipulation of any muscle. Trigger points are nerve signal blockage at the sarcomere level of a muscle cell, which create hypertonicity that severely limits joint ROM. Muscles move only in proscribed directions, they perform highly specialized tasks. You admit that you don't know the nervous system, the circulatory system or the most important of all to a massage therapist, the muscular system.
Just how the hell can anyone suggest anything relating to your method if you are incapable of explaining just what the hell makes it so different from what I and Gordon and 95,000 or so professional massage therapists do. Hell, dude, of course the muscle tells you how it wants to move-- brother, muscles only move one direction. Actually, they don't move in the sense I think you mean. CNS sends an order down the nerve, calcium is released into the interstitial spaces around the relevant muscle cells; this causes the cell to open its gate, potassium flows out and sodium flows in, and actin and myosin act like velcro and the muscle flexes-- origin and attachment sites of the muscle are drawn toward one another.
Go to school, brother. You have a strong sense of self; nothing wrong with that. However, you first have to learn just how little you know before you will be capable of opening yourself to education. Research???? How can you conduct research on a manual basis without an inkling of what lies beneath the skin of a human?
I don't think there's any reason to continue this conversation. Get your education in anatomy, kineseology, pathology. Then come back to the forum, and you'll get all the assistance you need.
Have a nice life, Sadan.
-
-
You're really rude, you know. Muscles only move in one direction. Body parts move in multiple directions. I said nothing about "chi". It's a sensation. That's all.
All I asked was for someone to imagine themselves in the scenario and tell me what they'd do if they were me, and let me know of any possible issues so I don't have to go into the situation blind. I'm not here to prove that this works or doesn't work or teach anyone. I came here asking for advice. I gave no medical information, I said nothing about how muscles work, I said nothing about cells or nerves. How do psychiatrists conduct research without a scalpel? If you don't need to cut it open, you don't need a knife. It's that simple. I've said hardly anything about what I'm doing. I gave just enough details for you to know what to advise about. Then I gave a little more when I thought there was just a misunderstanding. I still gave hardly any, as I don't really expect anyone here cares.
You know about your field, massage. I am considering doing something in your field, massage. You are not considering doing anything in my field. Why are you jumping to conclusions about what you think I mean instead of actually taking what I say at face value and answering the question? Humor me. I don't care what you believe. I just want an answer. Assume I'm making a TV show and this is in it, and you're a character in that scenario. What would you do? That's all I want.
© 2024 Created by ABMP.
Powered by
