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Cortiva sells to Steiner
| Steiner Leisure Limited Announces Entry Into an Agreement for the Acquisition of the Assets of Cortiva Group, Inc. |  |
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Thursday, 13 October 2011 16:35
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| Steiner Leisure Limited has entered into an agreement for the acquisition of the assets of Cortiva Group, Inc. ("Cortiva"). Cortiva operates seven post-secondary massage therapy schools with a total of 12 campuses located in Arizona, Florida, Illinois, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Washington and which had revenues in 2010 of approximately $24.6 million. Post-closing, Steiner, through its Schools division, would own and operate a total of 30 campuses in 14 states with an anticipated total population of approximately 5,200 students. This transaction, which is expected to be accretive to earnings post integration and neutral to slightly accretive to earnings in 2012, has a purchase price of $33.0 million in cash. Prior to closing, we will determine the extent to which the purchase price will be paid from existing cash and/or through borrowings under our credit facility. Leonard Fluxman, President and Chief Executive Officer of Steiner, said, "The acquisition of Cortiva Institute, a well-known participant in the massage therapy education field and one of our longtime competitors, would considerably expand and fortify the presence of our Schools division in the post-secondary massage therapy school market. The integration of Cortiva's extensive massage therapy offerings into our existing curriculum, as well as the availability of a variety of new campus locations in several regions of the United States new to us, would further assist the growth of our Schools division. We look forward to introducing even more graduates, with increasingly diverse skill sets, into the growing massage therapy and spa industries." Closing of the transaction, which is anticipated to take place in 2011, is subject to conditions similar to those in other transactions of this type including, among others, the receipt of regulatory approval from the Department of Education (the Cortiva schools are eligible to receive Title IV student loan funding). Steiner Leisure Limited is a worldwide provider of spa services. The Company's operations include shipboard and land-based spas and salons. We provide our services on 155 cruise ships and at 68 land-based spas. Our land-based spas include resort spas, urban hotel spas and day spas and are operated under our Elemis(R), Mandara(R), Chavana(R), Bliss(R) and Remede(R) brands. In addition, a total of 28 resort and hotel spas are operated under our brands by third parties pursuant to license agreements with the Company. Our cruise line and land-based resort customers include Azamara Club Cruises, Caesar's Entertainment, Carnival Cruise Lines, Celebrity Cruises, Crystal Cruises, Cunard Cruise Line, Hilton Hotels, Holland America Line, InterContinental Hotels and Resorts, Kerzner International, Loews Hotels, Marriott Hotels, Nikko Hotels, Norwegian Cruise Line, P&O Cruises, Planet Hollywood, Princess Cruises, Royal Caribbean Cruises, Seabourn Cruise Lines, Silversea Cruises, Sofitel Luxury Hotels, St. Regis Hotels, Thomson Cruises, W Hotels and Resorts, Westin Hotels and Resorts and Windstar Cruises. Our award-winning Elemis, Bliss and Remède brands are used and sold in our cruise ship and/or land-based spas and are also distributed worldwide to exclusive hotels, salons, health clubs, department stores and destination spas. Our products are also available at www.timetospa.com and www.blissworld.com . Steiner Leisure also owns and operates five post secondary schools (comprised of a total of 18 campuses) located in Miami, Orlando, Pompano Beach and Sarasota, Florida; Baltimore, Maryland; Charlottesville, Virginia; York, Pennsylvania; Salt Lake City and Lindon, Utah; Las Vegas, Nevada; Tempe and Phoenix, Arizona; Westminster and Aurora, Colorado; Groton, Newington and Westport, Connecticut; and Dallas, Texas. Offering programs in massage therapy and, in some cases, skin care, these schools train and qualify spa professionals for health and beauty positions within the Steiner family of companies or other industry entities. |
Views: 1628
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Relax & Rejuvenate on
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What kinds of classes do you think the chain schools fail to provide?
Why do you think they would not provide them if there is such a need for them? They can't be greedy AND miss the chance to make money on CE
Daniel Cohen said:Aside from profits which was only one issue mentioned what about continuing education? One of my main concerns is that chain schools concentrate on (what I regard as excessive) long hours of core curriculum for entry level therapists while neglecting providing CE for experienced therapists to continue growth.
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Permalink Reply by Daniel Cohen on
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Did you look at the link I included on Cortiva's CE? If yes I don't understand how you would ask this question. With over 250 modalities available are none of them worth offering as advanced courses to MTs? Yes it is about profit. It is about a school in several states supporting higher entry level hours and working with massage associations to increase state requirements. Entry level over 700 makes no sense to me as an MT. Experience in touching is what is needed. THen explore further if there are still any advanced classes available.
As you stated, you are not an MT and it is a business.
Relax & Rejuvenate said:What kinds of classes do you think the chain schools fail to provide?
Why do you think they would not provide them if there is such a need for them? They can't be greedy AND miss the chance to make money on CE
Daniel Cohen said:Aside from profits which was only one issue mentioned what about continuing education? One of my main concerns is that chain schools concentrate on (what I regard as excessive) long hours of core curriculum for entry level therapists while neglecting providing CE for experienced therapists to continue growth.
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Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on
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Daniel, your right...From my way of thinking.. Longer hours dont make a better massage therapist.. And judging by the ever shorter career spans( its only six or seven years now), its making things worse. In some ways, I feel lucky. I went to school a long time ago..My training consisted of about three months of training. Three nights a week of basic anatomy( junior high level), basic massage skills, and the state laws regarding massage therapy in Hawaii. Then I had to apprentice under a licensed therapist that had their own business for at leas three years..That lasted about seven months..I went in every day to a fully functional massage clinic and worked.. In my case a shiatsu clinic.. I learned Namikoshi shiatsu,,Not only did I learn shiatsu, but I learned how to answer the phone, make appointments, greet clients, take in money, even how to clean the bathrooms and empty the trash..An I had no tests to take during that entire apprenticeship . Now Hawaii had a state board I had to pass..So after my appenticship,, I studies for a month.. then took the state boards..The written test was not that intense, but I had to actually massage five professional massage therapists before they handed me a license to practice in Hawaii.. it was a way more practical and touch orientated approach altogether. And once you got the license..There was no continuing educational requirements .And no National certification needed in Hawaii..If we wanted to learn more, we took courses at our leisure, and to our liking, without any pressure or tests that counted..Ive never taken CE credit courses ever.. And Ive been a successful massage therapist for 27 years now... If you ask me, its a much more sensible way to train therapists. Am I wrong? NOT
Daniel Cohen said:
Did you look at the link I included on Cortiva's CE? If yes I don't understand how you would ask this question. With over 250 modalities available are none of them worth offering as advanced courses to MTs? Yes it is about profit. It is about a school in several states supporting higher entry level hours and working with massage associations to increase state requirements. Entry level over 700 makes no sense to me as an MT. Experience in touching is what is needed. THen explore further if there are still any advanced classes available.
As you stated, you are not an MT and it is a business.
Relax & Rejuvenate said:What kinds of classes do you think the chain schools fail to provide?
Why do you think they would not provide them if there is such a need for them? They can't be greedy AND miss the chance to make money on CE
Daniel Cohen said:Aside from profits which was only one issue mentioned what about continuing education? One of my main concerns is that chain schools concentrate on (what I regard as excessive) long hours of core curriculum for entry level therapists while neglecting providing CE for experienced therapists to continue growth.
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Daniel, you still did not answer my question, which was a business question. And you need to get over this notion thatt only MTs can know what is good for MTs. Apply that logic to any other part of your life and you will see the fallacy.
Massage consumers know what massage consumers want -- and a lot of them want Massage Envy. A lot of them don't care about 250 modalities, they only care about 15 at the most. THEY are the consumers, with the knowledge of CONSUMERS, and who is a provider to tell their customers what they should want.
A) What advanced classes are not being taught?
B) Why do you think aren't they being taught if there is a demand for them? We both agree the schools want to make money. HOw would you explain this disconnect between supply and demand?
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Permalink Reply by Emmanuel Bistas on
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Daniel, the way that NCB structured the continuing education approval process, not only has it flooded the market with CE providers, but has made it very difficult for schools to compete with independents. An independent provider with very little overhead can become approved and then come up with 100 classes that he/she can offer via correspondence, around the country, in the basement of their home, or wherever. NCBTMB does not have the resources to check how/when/where those classes are offered, so you have thousands of classes (of questionable value) offered around the country.
Schools do not have the flexibility and cost structure of independents, and it becomes very expensive to come up with new offerings all the time. Not to mention that the CEU market is fairly saturated that even independents complain they are not making any money. I would guess that the only parties making money from CEUs right now are AMTA and NCBTMB.
For schools to offer CEUs, they can choose to develop their own courses and pay someone a flat rate to teach them, or to sponsor an independent who has developed their own classes to come in and teach them. Having done both, I can tell you that neither makes much financial sense anymore.
I understand that FSMTB and AFMTE are looking into creating new CE requirements, so perhaps things will change and will be easier for schools to offer CEU classes. But it's really not that schools don't want to offer classes, it is a supply/demand kind of thing.
Daniel Cohen said:Did you look at the link I included on Cortiva's CE? If yes I don't understand how you would ask this question. With over 250 modalities available are none of them worth offering as advanced courses to MTs? Yes it is about profit. It is about a school in several states supporting higher entry level hours and working with massage associations to increase state requirements. Entry level over 700 makes no sense to me as an MT. Experience in touching is what is needed. THen explore further if there are still any advanced classes available.
As you stated, you are not an MT and it is a business.
Relax & Rejuvenate said:What kinds of classes do you think the chain schools fail to provide?
Why do you think they would not provide them if there is such a need for them? They can't be greedy AND miss the chance to make money on CE
Daniel Cohen said:Aside from profits which was only one issue mentioned what about continuing education? One of my main concerns is that chain schools concentrate on (what I regard as excessive) long hours of core curriculum for entry level therapists while neglecting providing CE for experienced therapists to continue growth.
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I agree there needs to be multiple input but CEs are for the MT. They help continued development, refresh knowledge, add tools used to help clients which the clients are unaware of.
I just answered another thread with this and perhaps it will help you to understand what I have said.
"One of the things I like about continuing education (which even with 700 + hour entry courses, I think there is a need for) is that it brings you together with other MTs and you get to share experiences, as well as, see how others work. Lengthy core courses don't have the same effect because you don't have the background to fully assimilate the information. Also it is good to take CEs as refreshers.
I just returned from retaking a class I took 11 years ago, almost immediately after becoming certified in massage. It was Lomi Lomi with Kumu Karen and not only did it refresh things I forgot but she also had changed the class over time. This time it was in Hawaii, the first was in L.A. which also made a difference since some of her grads dropped by with input and assistance.
It would be a shame to replace this with only initial long hour courses and web based CEs."
A) Compare what Cortiva offers for CE at different campuses. It is not the same and while that may be because of different teacher availability and local interest, they could host a wide variety of workshops to bring teachers of note in a variety of modalities to the local MTs. These instructors who travel are always interested in new venues.
B) From my own teaching experience at schools it is not about supply and demand but in school politics and fear of the staff instructors losing enrollment and classes. Many schools are very protective. I regard myself as lucky that Maria Grove of Touch Therapy Institute brought in outside Instructors for special workshops. Over the years I have traveled to take classes from two of them.
I understand the business aspect as I have been in business for 33 years. But the self growth of MTs to stay active in a demanding field is a need that changes over time. CEs are important to us as professionals. It improves us and our service. Specialty classes sponsored by Spas and Product Manufacturers also help us to know the industry we work with and become more employable depending on our goals. Limiting variety does not serve MTs, Clients, Employers, or the Schools. But it has grown out of dependency on grants and perceived protection of instructors and schools. The core curriculum supported the small schools when shorter hours were needed. They offered CEs and local government often required them. Then the requirement of CE was dropped by many places. The Community Colleges & Chain schools offered no or few CE. This took away the profitable core course from small schools. Gradually they have closed or been bought out. This has left limited opportunity to MTs to explore and refresh, in my opinion.
Relax & Rejuvenate said:Daniel, you still did not answer my question, which was a business question. And you need to get over this notion thatt only MTs can know what is good for MTs. Apply that logic to any other part of your life and you will see the fallacy.
Massage consumers know what massage consumers want -- and a lot of them want Massage Envy. A lot of them don't care about 250 modalities, they only care about 15 at the most. THEY are the consumers, with the knowledge of CONSUMERS, and who is a provider to tell their customers what they should want.
A) What advanced classes are not being taught?
B) Why do you think aren't they being taught if there is a demand for them? We both agree the schools want to make money. HOw would you explain this disconnect between supply and demand?
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Yes I am aware of the saturation problem and profitability. It is as much a problem as having 8 massage establishments in two blocks around my place. We are in a period of evolution at this point and it will be interesting to see how it evolves. Perhaps if states take the German model and license separately Medical Massage & Wellness Massage it might change the landscape.
Emmanuel Bistas said:
Daniel, the way that NCB structured the continuing education approval process, not only has it flooded the market with CE providers, but has made it very difficult for schools to compete with independents. An independent provider with very little overhead can become approved and then come up with 100 classes that he/she can offer via correspondence, around the country, in the basement of their home, or wherever. NCBTMB does not have the resources to check how/when/where those classes are offered, so you have thousands of classes (of questionable value) offered around the country.
Schools do not have the flexibility and cost structure of independents, and it becomes very expensive to come up with new offerings all the time. Not to mention that the CEU market is fairly saturated that even independents complain they are not making any money. I would guess that the only parties making money from CEUs right now are AMTA and NCBTMB.
For schools to offer CEUs, they can choose to develop their own courses and pay someone a flat rate to teach them, or to sponsor an independent who has developed their own classes to come in and teach them. Having done both, I can tell you that neither makes much financial sense anymore.
I understand that FSMTB and AFMTE are looking into creating new CE requirements, so perhaps things will change and will be easier for schools to offer CEU classes. But it's really not that schools don't want to offer classes, it is a supply/demand kind of thing.
Daniel Cohen said:Did you look at the link I included on Cortiva's CE? If yes I don't understand how you would ask this question. With over 250 modalities available are none of them worth offering as advanced courses to MTs? Yes it is about profit. It is about a school in several states supporting higher entry level hours and working with massage associations to increase state requirements. Entry level over 700 makes no sense to me as an MT. Experience in touching is what is needed. THen explore further if there are still any advanced classes available.
As you stated, you are not an MT and it is a business.
Relax & Rejuvenate said:What kinds of classes do you think the chain schools fail to provide?
Why do you think they would not provide them if there is such a need for them? They can't be greedy AND miss the chance to make money on CE
Daniel Cohen said:Aside from profits which was only one issue mentioned what about continuing education? One of my main concerns is that chain schools concentrate on (what I regard as excessive) long hours of core curriculum for entry level therapists while neglecting providing CE for experienced therapists to continue growth.
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Well Im thinking... You are massaging for a living, and surviving Im sure...So maybe its not so bad to have a lot of massage therapists in one area? People want a massage,, they head to that area.. Maybe it actually helps somehow with business? Or not really?
Daniel Cohen said:
Yes I am aware of the saturation problem and profitability. It is as much a problem as having 8 massage establishments in two blocks around my place. We are in a period of evolution at this point and it will be interesting to see how it evolves. Perhaps if states take the German model and license separately Medical Massage & Wellness Massage it might change the landscape.
Emmanuel Bistas said:
Daniel, the way that NCB structured the continuing education approval process, not only has it flooded the market with CE providers, but has made it very difficult for schools to compete with independents. An independent provider with very little overhead can become approved and then come up with 100 classes that he/she can offer via correspondence, around the country, in the basement of their home, or wherever. NCBTMB does not have the resources to check how/when/where those classes are offered, so you have thousands of classes (of questionable value) offered around the country.
Schools do not have the flexibility and cost structure of independents, and it becomes very expensive to come up with new offerings all the time. Not to mention that the CEU market is fairly saturated that even independents complain they are not making any money. I would guess that the only parties making money from CEUs right now are AMTA and NCBTMB.
For schools to offer CEUs, they can choose to develop their own courses and pay someone a flat rate to teach them, or to sponsor an independent who has developed their own classes to come in and teach them. Having done both, I can tell you that neither makes much financial sense anymore.
I understand that FSMTB and AFMTE are looking into creating new CE requirements, so perhaps things will change and will be easier for schools to offer CEU classes. But it's really not that schools don't want to offer classes, it is a supply/demand kind of thing.
Daniel Cohen said:Did you look at the link I included on Cortiva's CE? If yes I don't understand how you would ask this question. With over 250 modalities available are none of them worth offering as advanced courses to MTs? Yes it is about profit. It is about a school in several states supporting higher entry level hours and working with massage associations to increase state requirements. Entry level over 700 makes no sense to me as an MT. Experience in touching is what is needed. THen explore further if there are still any advanced classes available.
As you stated, you are not an MT and it is a business.
Relax & Rejuvenate said:What kinds of classes do you think the chain schools fail to provide?
Why do you think they would not provide them if there is such a need for them? They can't be greedy AND miss the chance to make money on CE
Daniel Cohen said:Aside from profits which was only one issue mentioned what about continuing education? One of my main concerns is that chain schools concentrate on (what I regard as excessive) long hours of core curriculum for entry level therapists while neglecting providing CE for experienced therapists to continue growth.
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I would have to say not, since it is very rare that I get walkins from passing by. We are recently getting more first timers from internet searches. Most clients are referrals, I even have relatives of clients who come to see me when they visit from Toronto, Israel, New York, North Carolina and other places. The passer by goes to the sign saying $39/ hour Thai or the $35/Chinese Foot Massage (foot means full body, a legal loophole) and those using insurance go to one of the two Chiropractic offices that have women the chiropractors trained but are unlicensed (another loophole in state law). All different each doing their thing.
Gordon J. Wallis said:
Well Im thinking... You are massaging for a living, and surviving Im sure...So maybe its not so bad to have a lot of massage therapists in one area? People want a massage,, they head to that area.. Maybe it actually helps somehow with business? Or not really?
Daniel Cohen said:
Yes I am aware of the saturation problem and profitability. It is as much a problem as having 8 massage establishments in two blocks around my place. We are in a period of evolution at this point and it will be interesting to see how it evolves. Perhaps if states take the German model and license separately Medical Massage & Wellness Massage it might change the landscape.
Emmanuel Bistas said:
Daniel, the way that NCB structured the continuing education approval process, not only has it flooded the market with CE providers, but has made it very difficult for schools to compete with independents. An independent provider with very little overhead can become approved and then come up with 100 classes that he/she can offer via correspondence, around the country, in the basement of their home, or wherever. NCBTMB does not have the resources to check how/when/where those classes are offered, so you have thousands of classes (of questionable value) offered around the country.
Schools do not have the flexibility and cost structure of independents, and it becomes very expensive to come up with new offerings all the time. Not to mention that the CEU market is fairly saturated that even independents complain they are not making any money. I would guess that the only parties making money from CEUs right now are AMTA and NCBTMB.
For schools to offer CEUs, they can choose to develop their own courses and pay someone a flat rate to teach them, or to sponsor an independent who has developed their own classes to come in and teach them. Having done both, I can tell you that neither makes much financial sense anymore.
I understand that FSMTB and AFMTE are looking into creating new CE requirements, so perhaps things will change and will be easier for schools to offer CEU classes. But it's really not that schools don't want to offer classes, it is a supply/demand kind of thing.
Daniel Cohen said:Did you look at the link I included on Cortiva's CE? If yes I don't understand how you would ask this question. With over 250 modalities available are none of them worth offering as advanced courses to MTs? Yes it is about profit. It is about a school in several states supporting higher entry level hours and working with massage associations to increase state requirements. Entry level over 700 makes no sense to me as an MT. Experience in touching is what is needed. THen explore further if there are still any advanced classes available.
As you stated, you are not an MT and it is a business.
Relax & Rejuvenate said:What kinds of classes do you think the chain schools fail to provide?
Why do you think they would not provide them if there is such a need for them? They can't be greedy AND miss the chance to make money on CE
Daniel Cohen said:Aside from profits which was only one issue mentioned what about continuing education? One of my main concerns is that chain schools concentrate on (what I regard as excessive) long hours of core curriculum for entry level therapists while neglecting providing CE for experienced therapists to continue growth.
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Yea ok...Yea people, including those chiropractors, dont know the true potential of our art..I mean, you can go to a technician and get fair results..but not anything like getting bodywrok from a true professional, like yourself. Not even close.
Daniel Cohen said:
I would have to say not, since it is very rare that I get walkins from passing by. We are recently getting more first timers from internet searches. Most clients are referrals, I even have relatives of clients who come to see me when they visit from Toronto, Israel, New York, North Carolina and other places. The passer by goes to the sign saying $39/ hour Thai or the $35/Chinese Foot Massage (foot means full body, a legal loophole) and those using insurance go to one of the two Chiropractic offices that have women the chiropractors trained but are unlicensed (another loophole in state law). All different each doing their thing.
Gordon J. Wallis said:
Well Im thinking... You are massaging for a living, and surviving Im sure...So maybe its not so bad to have a lot of massage therapists in one area? People want a massage,, they head to that area.. Maybe it actually helps somehow with business? Or not really?
Daniel Cohen said:
Yes I am aware of the saturation problem and profitability. It is as much a problem as having 8 massage establishments in two blocks around my place. We are in a period of evolution at this point and it will be interesting to see how it evolves. Perhaps if states take the German model and license separately Medical Massage & Wellness Massage it might change the landscape.
Emmanuel Bistas said:Daniel, the way that NCB structured the continuing education approval process, not only has it flooded the market with CE providers, but has made it very difficult for schools to compete with independents. An independent provider with very little overhead can become approved and then come up with 100 classes that he/she can offer via correspondence, around the country, in the basement of their home, or wherever. NCBTMB does not have the resources to check how/when/where those classes are offered, so you have thousands of classes (of questionable value) offered around the country.
Schools do not have the flexibility and cost structure of independents, and it becomes very expensive to come up with new offerings all the time. Not to mention that the CEU market is fairly saturated that even independents complain they are not making any money. I would guess that the only parties making money from CEUs right now are AMTA and NCBTMB.
For schools to offer CEUs, they can choose to develop their own courses and pay someone a flat rate to teach them, or to sponsor an independent who has developed their own classes to come in and teach them. Having done both, I can tell you that neither makes much financial sense anymore.
I understand that FSMTB and AFMTE are looking into creating new CE requirements, so perhaps things will change and will be easier for schools to offer CEU classes. But it's really not that schools don't want to offer classes, it is a supply/demand kind of thing.
Daniel Cohen said:Did you look at the link I included on Cortiva's CE? If yes I don't understand how you would ask this question. With over 250 modalities available are none of them worth offering as advanced courses to MTs? Yes it is about profit. It is about a school in several states supporting higher entry level hours and working with massage associations to increase state requirements. Entry level over 700 makes no sense to me as an MT. Experience in touching is what is needed. THen explore further if there are still any advanced classes available.
As you stated, you are not an MT and it is a business.
Relax & Rejuvenate said:What kinds of classes do you think the chain schools fail to provide?
Why do you think they would not provide them if there is such a need for them? They can't be greedy AND miss the chance to make money on CE
Daniel Cohen said:Aside from profits which was only one issue mentioned what about continuing education? One of my main concerns is that chain schools concentrate on (what I regard as excessive) long hours of core curriculum for entry level therapists while neglecting providing CE for experienced therapists to continue growth.
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Seems to me.. If those chiropractors near you.. Really cared about their patients.. They would send them to you.. but then, they probably wouldn't come back.. You have a high art.
Gordon J. Wallis said:
Yea ok...Yea people, including those chiropractors, dont know the true potential of our art..I mean, you can go to a technician and get fair results..but not anything like getting bodywrok from a true professional, like yourself. Not even close.
Daniel Cohen said:
I would have to say not, since it is very rare that I get walkins from passing by. We are recently getting more first timers from internet searches. Most clients are referrals, I even have relatives of clients who come to see me when they visit from Toronto, Israel, New York, North Carolina and other places. The passer by goes to the sign saying $39/ hour Thai or the $35/Chinese Foot Massage (foot means full body, a legal loophole) and those using insurance go to one of the two Chiropractic offices that have women the chiropractors trained but are unlicensed (another loophole in state law). All different each doing their thing.
Gordon J. Wallis said:
Well Im thinking... You are massaging for a living, and surviving Im sure...So maybe its not so bad to have a lot of massage therapists in one area? People want a massage,, they head to that area.. Maybe it actually helps somehow with business? Or not really?
Daniel Cohen said:Yes I am aware of the saturation problem and profitability. It is as much a problem as having 8 massage establishments in two blocks around my place. We are in a period of evolution at this point and it will be interesting to see how it evolves. Perhaps if states take the German model and license separately Medical Massage & Wellness Massage it might change the landscape.
Emmanuel Bistas said:Daniel, the way that NCB structured the continuing education approval process, not only has it flooded the market with CE providers, but has made it very difficult for schools to compete with independents. An independent provider with very little overhead can become approved and then come up with 100 classes that he/she can offer via correspondence, around the country, in the basement of their home, or wherever. NCBTMB does not have the resources to check how/when/where those classes are offered, so you have thousands of classes (of questionable value) offered around the country.
Schools do not have the flexibility and cost structure of independents, and it becomes very expensive to come up with new offerings all the time. Not to mention that the CEU market is fairly saturated that even independents complain they are not making any money. I would guess that the only parties making money from CEUs right now are AMTA and NCBTMB.
For schools to offer CEUs, they can choose to develop their own courses and pay someone a flat rate to teach them, or to sponsor an independent who has developed their own classes to come in and teach them. Having done both, I can tell you that neither makes much financial sense anymore.
I understand that FSMTB and AFMTE are looking into creating new CE requirements, so perhaps things will change and will be easier for schools to offer CEU classes. But it's really not that schools don't want to offer classes, it is a supply/demand kind of thing.
Daniel Cohen said:Did you look at the link I included on Cortiva's CE? If yes I don't understand how you would ask this question. With over 250 modalities available are none of them worth offering as advanced courses to MTs? Yes it is about profit. It is about a school in several states supporting higher entry level hours and working with massage associations to increase state requirements. Entry level over 700 makes no sense to me as an MT. Experience in touching is what is needed. THen explore further if there are still any advanced classes available.
As you stated, you are not an MT and it is a business.
Relax & Rejuvenate said:What kinds of classes do you think the chain schools fail to provide?
Why do you think they would not provide them if there is such a need for them? They can't be greedy AND miss the chance to make money on CE
Daniel Cohen said:Aside from profits which was only one issue mentioned what about continuing education? One of my main concerns is that chain schools concentrate on (what I regard as excessive) long hours of core curriculum for entry level therapists while neglecting providing CE for experienced therapists to continue growth.
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Gordon it is much easier for those of us with reputations (and I say easier, not easy) to support our selves. But what of those starting out and developing their skills? It isn't easy with the current massage landscape. I have women working who study technique from me and are recent school graduates. It isn't easy to get people to try them and differentiate them from the many around. Experience is very important in this field and the reason I favor shorter school requirements and required CE.
The two most important components as I see it are (1) Experience with having hands on a wide variety of people and (2) Confidence in your skills to help. This is not about ego, simply acknowledging the benefits of our skills to help people. As you say, all we do is see the pain and relieve it. Very simple but powerful. We are healers, people who facilitate the bodies ability to heal. So many people avoid the term and even are embarrassed by it but society has a need for us that we should be proud to say "let me try to help you, I am an experienced healer". The term requires knowledge and experience. The faster people finish school and begin experience the faster the ramks of healers needed by society can grow.
I would even say, a 200 hour course can provide the knowledge to enter the field, so you don't injure. From that point 16 hours per year of CE should be required the first 10 years. After that it should be left to you to know if growth or connection to the profession is needed. The exception should be no CE required after reaching 65 yo. If a person of retirement age can supplement there income or support themselves on massage they should be left to do what they are doing without the stress of class requirements. Those who enjoy taking classes will always do so with or without requirements.
This would widen the field not limit it. We need a wider entry field rather than closing it off because of time, money, test taking ability constraints. The wider entry field allows a pool of variety from which the accomplished can emerge.
I am for letting those that want to make massage a science related medical profession get their Medical Massage License from a three or four year college and those who would do Wellness Massage have entry as I describe.
Let the public choose who they will go to. We all have those that will follow. Variety is a needed part of this profession.
Ok I have vented, thanks.
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