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Crossing boundaries - employee vs. IC
For those of you who are ICs, have you had any trouble with an employer crossing boundaries and treating you like an employee, or just plain taking advantage of you? Things like mandatory meetings and having non-massage duties (ie, scrubbing walls) added to your roster of responsibilities--but without being paid for any of it?
How many of you have non-massage responsibilities in your IC role as it is, particularly laundry and/or light cleaning duties? Is it specified in your contract or just an expectation of where you work? Do you get paid anything extra for these responsibilities, or is it just expected that you will do this as a "team player"?
I'm especially interested to hear from therapists who live in small towns, where gossip spreads like wildfire and you always seem to run into people when you want to see them the least.
How many of you have non-massage responsibilities in your IC role as it is, particularly laundry and/or light cleaning duties? Is it specified in your contract or just an expectation of where you work? Do you get paid anything extra for these responsibilities, or is it just expected that you will do this as a "team player"?
I'm especially interested to hear from therapists who live in small towns, where gossip spreads like wildfire and you always seem to run into people when you want to see them the least.
Views: 211
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Teresa Parrish on
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I live in a small rural town and have not run into these issues the three places I work.
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Permalink Reply by Laura Allen on
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I'd like to address this from my position as an employer of over a dozen ICs.
My therapists make their own schedules. They are never expected to hang around the office doing work or sitting around waiting when they don't have clients. My clinic is miraculously staffed when I need it, and it has been that way for the past six years.
They provide massage and keep their own room looking decent, and that is all I expect, period. If one of them throws in a load of laundry I am grateful, but they are not expected to do it. If I ever need to have a meeting, which is usually no more than once or twice a year, I hold it at lunchtime and feed everyone with a meal at my expense. They've never seemed to mind.
Numerous employers have wrongly classified their ICs. They are breaking the rules when they put all manner of unpaid duties on them, expect them to sit there all day for no pay, etc. It is sad that many people need a job so badly they won't complain.
If you feel that you are being treated unfairly, there is a form on the IRS website at www.irs.gov that you can fill out to see whether or not you are being classified correctly.
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Permalink Reply by Erica Olson on
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I'm familiar with the SS-8 and have done some pretty substantial research about IC laws (sadly, due to a prior job situation not ending well). I'm fairly certain which way the chips would fall in this situation, but part of me is apprehensive about taking such a step due to the size of the town I live in. I also fear retribution in the form of losing my job, but I'm getting more and more resentful of where I work.
Although we are not expected to remain on site when we don't have clients, we have mandatory meetings once a year at the end of the day (~6 or 7 pm start) or on our day off, and are not compensated in any way. In addition, therapists are expected to do laundry, constantly maintain and restock the locker rooms, clean the shower after our client uses them, empty the trash from our rooms, and so forth. If we forget to do any of these, we may be fined $5 for each offense. I don't mind doing general pick-up and keeping my room tidy, but I feel that getting fined does not lead to a team atmosphere where therapists all help to keep things running smoothly.
In addition, we have all been notified that we are to assist with a deep-clean of the spa. This will likely take ~30-45 minutes each of our time, and I have a feeling that we will not be paid for it, as no such mention has yet been made. I also have a feeling that when I confront the owner and tell her I feel that I am being taken advantage of that I will lose my job within the week.
Laura Allen said:I'd like to address this from my position as an employer of over a dozen ICs.
My therapists make their own schedules. They are never expected to hang around the office doing work or sitting around waiting when they don't have clients. My clinic is miraculously staffed when I need it, and it has been that way for the past six years.
They provide massage and keep their own room looking decent, and that is all I expect, period. If one of them throws in a load of laundry I am grateful, but they are not expected to do it. If I ever need to have a meeting, which is usually no more than once or twice a year, I hold it at lunchtime and feed everyone with a meal at my expense. They've never seemed to mind.
Numerous employers have wrongly classified their ICs. They are breaking the rules when they put all manner of unpaid duties on them, expect them to sit there all day for no pay, etc. It is sad that many people need a job so badly they won't complain.
If you feel that you are being treated unfairly, there is a form on the IRS website at www.irs.gov that you can fill out to see whether or not you are being classified correctly.
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Permalink Reply by Michael McAleese on
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At my clinic/office The IC's take care of their own schedules/laundry and keep on the rented rooms. They use thier own cell phones... I just give them a home it works well no issues no hassles... Life is Good...
However when I started 18 plus years ago I was treated like I was a employee by a Chiropactor group. I struck to my guns and set my boundries fast and made sure they never crossed them again.
I now teach My massage students that.
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You've stated you are in a resort area, are the a high number of massage therapists and spas offering massage in your town? Do you feel your job would be threatened because there are therapists that would like to work there? It seems like you need to poll your fellow ICs and see how they feel about all the unpaid extra work. Maybe together you would have more ability to set boundaries with the owner.
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Yes, massage is a large income-generator in our town, and probably one of the four most common professions (at least part-time). I don't feel it's so much that other people want to work here as it is that I'm easily replaced.
I've spoken with one of the other MTs about the deep clean, which is really what's rankling me right now. She doesn't like it either, but isn't comfortable with confrontation. The owner is very . . . intense.
Teresa Parrish said:You've stated you are in a resort area, are the a high number of massage therapists and spas offering massage in your town? Do you feel your job would be threatened because there are therapists that would like to work there? It seems like you need to poll your fellow ICs and see how they feel about all the unpaid extra work. Maybe together you would have more ability to set boundaries with the owner.
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Permalink Reply by Bonny Donnelly on
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Never been asked to scrub walls, but I did get asked to do some free chair massages for promos the chiropractor was doing. I've been gracious about promoting the clinic and they are promoting me but they are giving me a set price for ins cases and not a full split. I found out that they are billing twice what they told me but when I queried about it they told me they can bill 150 but may only get 70 so therefore my $40 for that ins paid hour is all they can give me. Does that sound right you? The specialized massages I do are not being bought there much as most clients are insurance patients. I also share the room with another LMT who was there first. She always leaves her mattress pad on the table for me to put away and some of her other things around as well. I understand she is used to having it all to herself, and so I brought in some of my own shelves and such for me to have space for my things. I am now there 3 days to her 2 and she still continues to do this. I recently brought in a table heating pad so now have to put hers away then mine on, then mine away again. I am going to have to mention it to her because it takes up time I should not have to deal with, but am trying not to cause a problem in the workplace. I do not have to clean the room per se, but do keep it tidy and wipe things down. They have q cleaning lady come on weekends to vacuum and clean- there is no shower in the chrio's office as it isn't a spa. I brougth in decor and candles and a fountain and such for ambiance as there was none of that. I do a lot of other other things in there to help out including free massage for the owner/chiropractor ( which is ok cuz I get free adjustments) and also the office mgr... and am new to this area so have not build up my personal clientele yet so need the work. Never worked in a clinic environment before and always had private clients so this is a bit of a difficult situation for me. I really need to make more compensation. Any advice or suggestions are welcome. I also teach and am moving into more classes but meantime this is local where I work.
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Permalink Reply by Julie Onofrio on
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As someone who owns my own business (which is what an IC is really) I do those things all the time. I have to do my own laundry, clean, do billing, set appointments, do my books. An IC is a self employed person. I would think you would want to do those things so that the place looks great for your clients and you want clean sheets for them too.
I am wondering if the problem is more about that you feel you aren't valued. Are you being paid enough is the big question? Can you come and go as you please otherwise when you don't have appointments?
I also think that the IC/employee thing is really confusing and employers do take advantage of IC's. I was writing about this before. Is it in your contract that you clean etc?
http://www.massageprofessionals.com/profiles/blogs/ic-vs-massage-em...
Julie
www.thebodyworker.com
www.massage-career-guides.com
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No, there is nothing in my contract about cleaning, only that I agree to "provide massage therapy services within the scope of [my] licensure." Ergo, it's not really my job or responsibility. I don't think the rate of pay is making much difference to me, and yes, I can come and go otherwise.
The way the owner brought it up to me ("You need to pick a room and clean it" in a firm tone of voice that brooked no argument) is what I think is finally tipping me over the edge. At the last place I worked, I was definitely taken advantage of and used more as an employee, with the same sort of things that are happening now. If the owner is not willing to pay me for my time (and we're talking maybe $10-15 here), then it seems pretty obvious to me that she doesn't value it. I, on the other hand, do.
Julie Onofrio said:As someone who owns my own business (which is what an IC is really) I do those things all the time. I have to do my own laundry, clean, do billing, set appointments, do my books. An IC is a self employed person. I would think you would want to do those things so that the place looks great for your clients and you want clean sheets for them too.
I am wondering if the problem is more about that you feel you aren't valued. Are you being paid enough is the big question? Can you come and go as you please otherwise when you don't have appointments?
I also think that the IC/employee thing is really confusing and employers do take advantage of IC's. I was writing about this before. Is it in your contract that you clean etc?
http://www.massageprofessionals.com/profiles/blogs/ic-vs-massage-em...
Julie
www.thebodyworker.com
www.massage-career-guides.com
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Well, at this point it's all pretty moot. I gave my notice today.
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Permalink Reply by Gloria Coppola on
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I agree with Julie!
When I owned my placed and had IC's I didn't "require" them to do these things, we just normally worked as a team to make us all succeed! They wanted to partake in helping in anyway. They knew that it took a lot to run a business and expenses were high. THey were very grateful they had a place to work as an IC (their own business). They got a generous split of the income.
Obviously, I never asked them to deep clean, scrub walls tho. We did all, including me, partake in cleaning bathrooms, vacuuming, events, etc. when needed. Our meetings were monthly and they didn't get paid for the time.. We met as business owners within a business (umbrella) to see how we could support each other and grow together. Brainstorming etc.
Smaller run business' often have to operate as a team. MT's who can't afford to start their own business should understand, in my opinion, that this in an opportunity to also learn how to be a business owner.
I would never expect anyone to sit around and not get paid. My IC's were always networking their business. I often hear that IC's expect the business owner to do this all for them. An IC is responsible to manage their business.
As an IC, you are your own business and should not expect the person who provides you a space to do everything. When I worked in other places when I started out, I was glad to help out however I could and never expected things in return. I did my own laundry. Everyone just naturally helped each other.
So glad to hear you quit because it seems like way more was involved than just being expected to deep clean.
Perhaps Julie is correct in feeling it's more about your value?
Good Luck!
Julie Onofrio said:As someone who owns my own business (which is what an IC is really) I do those things all the time. I have to do my own laundry, clean, do billing, set appointments, do my books. An IC is a self employed person. I would think you would want to do those things so that the place looks great for your clients and you want clean sheets for them too.
I am wondering if the problem is more about that you feel you aren't valued. Are you being paid enough is the big question? Can you come and go as you please otherwise when you don't have appointments?
I also think that the IC/employee thing is really confusing and employers do take advantage of IC's. I was writing about this before. Is it in your contract that you clean etc?
http://www.massageprofessionals.com/profiles/blogs/ic-vs-massage-em...
Julie
www.thebodyworker.com
www.massage-career-guides.com
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Permalink Reply by Lisa on
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Good for you Erica!!!
i don't care if we are MTs or working corporate america...if a boss can't show you the same respect and professionalism to discuss the runnings and expectations of the job then that's a job that can kiss my... :)
i have not put myself out there as an IC yet...but from what our school taught us...yes we do our own laundry, clean our space and manage our own business. just as we would do if we were working out of our homes. anything more than that should be compensated. ICs should not get paid to be at a place if they are not working...however they should also not be required to be there if they are not working.
one thing our school taught us was set your boundaries and expectations when you walk in. that way there is no misunderstanding from the get go.
Erica Olson said:Well, at this point it's all pretty moot. I gave my notice today.
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