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Marilyn perhaps you should call the Massage Museum to ask if they have this text. If they do not it would make a good donation to our history.
In the early 70s I took my first massage class. Yes the entire class would remove their clothes including the teacher and her demo. It had two purposes, 1) to make us relaxed about our bodies 2) to make it quick and easy to switch. We were not required to be nude to be part of the class, but almost everyone was. There were over 20 students in the class and it was at a University. Since then I have taken my certification course and many advanced classes for CEUs.
It was a great class in Swedish Massage that gave me a good base for the classes in this century. The class even addressed male anatomical reactions to massage. Today many schools even drape the male chest as they do the female. Only a few of the classes I have taken this century have been undraped but not nude. There are those I've taken that we were in underwear or shorts while on the table or being assessed. I guess 21st century society has become shyer counter to the predictions of futurologists of the last century.
The only constant is change.
And that's one of the best things about massage therapy as a profession -- that there are so many different massage styles and modalities that you can practice your craft in the way that gives you the most satisfaction. Or you can choose not to practice styles that you don't want to. For myself, I don't like doing painful deep tissue work. Clients who feel that they don't get their money's worth if they aren't gritting their teeth through the entire massage should look elsewhere.But I don't massage breasts or genitals so don't need them uncovered at any point during the treatment....
Rob E said:I wonder how many participating in this thread are spa-based employees who have a constantly rotating clientel vs. private practitioners that build a consistent, relationship-based clientel. In the former I can understand the need for rules and guidlines because the two people involved don't know each other. In the latter, however, it seems an important part of the relationship is communications and trust.
When someone is on your table for the first time then I would think common courtesy for both the client and the therapist would be to err on the conservative side to respect appropriate boundaries. When the person has been on the table 5 to 10 times I presume that some communications has happened regarding the client / therapist relationship and you each know the other's preferences and intentions. If there was a mismatch their would not be that many return sessions.
So if you know your client and your client knows you then do whatever you both agree on. The door is closed. The state is not in the room with you. There is no rule that says you have to offer drape or no drape to EVERY person on your table. Do you trust them? Do they trust you? If you build a relationship where you can reasonably trust the person do anything you both want behind the door and don't do anything that either of you doesn't want.
The comments by Rob are very ambiguous and can be interpreted in many ways. Doing what? behind closed doors that you and the client feel comfortable with? If there are limits to this interpretation, I wish that Rob would clean up his comments and not leave them so open ended!
Laura K Dylla said:
Rob E said:I wonder how many participating in this thread are spa-based employees who have a constantly rotating clientel vs. private practitioners that build a consistent, relationship-based clientel. In the former I can understand the need for rules and guidlines because the two people involved don't know each other. In the latter, however, it seems an important part of the relationship is communications and trust.
When someone is on your table for the first time then I would think common courtesy for both the client and the therapist would be to err on the conservative side to respect appropriate boundaries. When the person has been on the table 5 to 10 times I presume that some communications has happened regarding the client / therapist relationship and you each know the other's preferences and intentions. If there was a mismatch their would not be that many return sessions.
So if you know your client and your client knows you then do whatever you both agree on. The door is closed. The state is not in the room with you. There is no rule that says you have to offer drape or no drape to EVERY person on your table. Do you trust them? Do they trust you? If you build a relationship where you can reasonably trust the person do anything you both want behind the door and don't do anything that either of you doesn't want.
The comments by Rob are very ambiguous and can be interpreted in many ways. Doing what? behind closed doors that you and the client feel comfortable with? If there are limits to this interpretation, I wish that Rob would clean up his comments and not leave them so open ended!
Laura K Dylla said:
Rob E said:I wonder how many participating in this thread are spa-based employees who have a constantly rotating clientel vs. private practitioners that build a consistent, relationship-based clientel. In the former I can understand the need for rules and guidlines because the two people involved don't know each other. In the latter, however, it seems an important part of the relationship is communications and trust.
When someone is on your table for the first time then I would think common courtesy for both the client and the therapist would be to err on the conservative side to respect appropriate boundaries. When the person has been on the table 5 to 10 times I presume that some communications has happened regarding the client / therapist relationship and you each know the other's preferences and intentions. If there was a mismatch their would not be that many return sessions.
So if you know your client and your client knows you then do whatever you both agree on. The door is closed. The state is not in the room with you. There is no rule that says you have to offer drape or no drape to EVERY person on your table. Do you trust them? Do they trust you? If you build a relationship where you can reasonably trust the person do anything you both want behind the door and don't do anything that either of you doesn't want.
The comments by Rob are very ambiguous and can be interpreted in many ways. Doing what? behind closed doors that you and the client feel comfortable with? If there are limits to this interpretation, I wish that Rob would clean up his comments and not leave them so open ended!
Laura K Dylla said:
Rob E said:I wonder how many participating in this thread are spa-based employees who have a constantly rotating clientel vs. private practitioners that build a consistent, relationship-based clientel. In the former I can understand the need for rules and guidlines because the two people involved don't know each other. In the latter, however, it seems an important part of the relationship is communications and trust.
When someone is on your table for the first time then I would think common courtesy for both the client and the therapist would be to err on the conservative side to respect appropriate boundaries. When the person has been on the table 5 to 10 times I presume that some communications has happened regarding the client / therapist relationship and you each know the other's preferences and intentions. If there was a mismatch their would not be that many return sessions.
So if you know your client and your client knows you then do whatever you both agree on. The door is closed. The state is not in the room with you. There is no rule that says you have to offer drape or no drape to EVERY person on your table. Do you trust them? Do they trust you? If you build a relationship where you can reasonably trust the person do anything you both want behind the door and don't do anything that either of you doesn't want.
Quote #1 " So if you know your client and your client knows you then do whatever you both agree on. The door is closed. The state is not in the room with you. There is no rule that says you have to offer drape or no drape to EVERY person on your table. Do you trust them? Do they trust you? If you build a relationship where you can reasonably trust the person do anything you both want behind the door and don't do anything that either of you doesn't want."
Quote #2" And, yes, I'll say the unpopular. Everyone can crash in with the chiding responses....if there is a sexual tone to whatever is happening and BOTH the therapist and client are OK with it then "whatever." They are adults who have agreed. What you agree to in your room may not be what I agree to in my room but I'm just really not a fan of people outside the room telling other people what they should do during their session. That's up to the therapist and client. Just don't be charging money for anyting other than a massage. That's just flat out illegal."
My Question: Why did draping of the human female or male torso become important when Massage Therapy Therapy was first trying to get started? Was it to address what Rob eludes to so that the massage industry in the US could get its fledging feet on the ground and get accepted as a viable pain relief modality without the pressure of that forbidden word "sex" entering in?
The first above quote is what I was referring to in my first post and I thank you Rob for so kindly explaining yourself in the second quote. I see that you did "come out" with your explanation statement and that is what I read into your post previously. I have difficulty your statements and wonder what place such a belief has in the Massage Therapy industry as a whole. I am not pruddish but I am cautious as to how an individual Massage Therapist with this belief with "clients who agree" could be a value to the Massage Therapy Industry and who it benefits "in knowing your clients". Is your
"belief" a reason why male therapists have difficulty being hired to give massages given the erroneous belief of the millions who do not get massage, is that eventually, more may happen when you get to "know" each other better? ( My words )
I guess I am a lot old fashioned and didn't get into massage until 2000. But down here in Texas where I first started giving massages, it took my company several years of hard work overcoming the beliefs that people had about the validity of massage as a medical need vs a superflous-expensive-feel-good-if-you-are-rich-way-to spend money. Even in this small town, men have expected more than a swedish massage. And if you think what happens in a room with closed doors which maybe titilatting in nature, STAYS THERE, you are sadly mistaken. Word eventually leaks out no matter how you try to keep it to yourselves.
So as stated in the beginning, just WHY did the massage industry as a whole, CHOOSE to maintain draping as a prerequsite in giving massage?
Quote #1 " So if you know your client and your client knows you then do whatever you both agree on. The door is closed. The state is not in the room with you. There is no rule that says you have to offer drape or no drape to EVERY person on your table. Do you trust them? Do they trust you? If you build a relationship where you can reasonably trust the person do anything you both want behind the door and don't do anything that either of you doesn't want."
Quote #2" And, yes, I'll say the unpopular. Everyone can crash in with the chiding responses....if there is a sexual tone to whatever is happening and BOTH the therapist and client are OK with it then "whatever." They are adults who have agreed. What you agree to in your room may not be what I agree to in my room but I'm just really not a fan of people outside the room telling other people what they should do during their session. That's up to the therapist and client. Just don't be charging money for anyting other than a massage. That's just flat out illegal."
My Question: Why did draping of the human female or male torso become important when Massage Therapy Therapy was first trying to get started? Was it to address what Rob eludes to so that the massage industry in the US could get its fledging feet on the ground and get accepted as a viable pain relief modality without the pressure of that forbidden word "sex" entering in?
The first above quote is what I was referring to in my first post and I thank you Rob for so kindly explaining yourself in the second quote. I see that you did "come out" with your explanation statement and that is what I read into your post previously. I have difficulty your statements and wonder what place such a belief has in the Massage Therapy industry as a whole. I am not pruddish but I am cautious as to how an individual Massage Therapist with this belief with "clients who agree" could be a value to the Massage Therapy Industry and who it benefits "in knowing your clients". Is your
"belief" a reason why male therapists have difficulty being hired to give massages given the erroneous belief of the millions who do not get massage, is that eventually, more may happen when you get to "know" each other better? ( My words )
I guess I am a lot old fashioned and didn't get into massage until 2000. But down here in Texas where I first started giving massages, it took my company several years of hard work overcoming the beliefs that people had about the validity of massage as a medical need vs a superflous-expensive-feel-good-if-you-are-rich-way-to spend money. Even in this small town, men have expected more than a swedish massage. And if you think what happens in a room with closed doors which maybe titilatting in nature, STAYS THERE, you are sadly mistaken. Word eventually leaks out no matter how you try to keep it to yourselves.
So as stated in the beginning, just WHY did the massage industry as a whole, CHOOSE to maintain draping as a prerequsite in giving massage?
My comments are intended to be open ended. The thread is about draping so start there. If you trust your client and are comfortable around the human body and your client trust you and does not want a drape then don't drape. If either of you are not comfortable then drape. Solid communication between you and your client will keep you on the same page and neither of you should ever be uncomfortable with how the massage is done. Extend the concept to breast massage. Extend it to any type of interaction you have with your client. No one is in the room except the two of you and you've both consented. I'm not fond of a local / state / federal government making that decision for people.
To not beat around a bush, the underlying thread of this subject that no one wants to say out loud is whether nudity and theraputic contact with breasts is sexual or if the client being naked will promote sexual interaction. That really depends upon the two people behind the closed door and what they believe. For many people (client or therapist) it's not sexual at all. It's just a body. Other people won't or can't separate nudity and physical contact from sexuality. What I'm trying to express is neither is right or wrong. Being a client or therapist and feeling there is something sexual going on when you don't want it to be is wrong and that should never happen. The only way you uncover (no pun) the viewpoint of your client or therapist is through communicating and getting to know them.
And, yes, I'll say the unpopular. Everyone can crash in with the chiding responses....if there is a sexual tone to whatever is happening and BOTH the therapist and client are OK with it then "whatever." They are adults who have agreed. What you agree to in your room may not be what I agree to in my room but I'm just really not a fan of people outside the room telling other people what they should do during their session. That's up to the therapist and client. Just don't be charging money for anyting other than a massage. That's just flat out illegal.
Laura K Dylla said:The comments by Rob are very ambiguous and can be interpreted in many ways. Doing what? behind closed doors that you and the client feel comfortable with? If there are limits to this interpretation, I wish that Rob would clean up his comments and not leave them so open ended!
Laura K Dylla said:
Rob E said:I wonder how many participating in this thread are spa-based employees who have a constantly rotating clientel vs. private practitioners that build a consistent, relationship-based clientel. In the former I can understand the need for rules and guidlines because the two people involved don't know each other. In the latter, however, it seems an important part of the relationship is communications and trust.
When someone is on your table for the first time then I would think common courtesy for both the client and the therapist would be to err on the conservative side to respect appropriate boundaries. When the person has been on the table 5 to 10 times I presume that some communications has happened regarding the client / therapist relationship and you each know the other's preferences and intentions. If there was a mismatch their would not be that many return sessions.
So if you know your client and your client knows you then do whatever you both agree on. The door is closed. The state is not in the room with you. There is no rule that says you have to offer drape or no drape to EVERY person on your table. Do you trust them? Do they trust you? If you build a relationship where you can reasonably trust the person do anything you both want behind the door and don't do anything that either of you doesn't want.
I never do un-draped. If they don't like the sheet, I use a towel.
There's nothing I need to work on that is covered by that towel, so why would it need be exposed?
I've had a few ask for undraped and when I told them I do draped massage, some were ok with the towel, some didn't show or call back. And some of those that were ok with the towel, still tried to suggest extra services.
And one even left the towel off when I left the room for him to change, and I came back in to a naked man. I politely covered him with a towel and he left it on...but, then, when I was thru, he propositioned me and asked for me to let him massage me. I of course declined and left quick as I could get out of there.
After that, I don't even take clients that ask for un-draped, EVEN if they say they are cool with being draped once I tell them I do draped only.
I believe only uncover what's going to be worked on, no mis-understandings if things are kept that way.
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