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Have Arrogant / Stubborn LMT's Created the Market for Massage Franchises?
First off let me say that I honestly don't personally care what any other Therapist's charge, nor do I concern myself w/ how well or how much business someone else is generating.
I've been in Healthcare now for over 17yrs, and my view towards things tend to be a little different from the avg professional. I believe that any and all therapy no matter the modality should be available to everyone.
I've seen and heard from other LMT's over time that these Massage Franchises are hurting the profession, either by their reduced rates which arent' actually reduced at all, or by the volume of business they do on a daily basis.
I've often wondered when I travel to more rural areas why their local LMT's charge the National Avg w/ regards to basic rates, aren't things in more run down, poorer regions usually cheaper than lets say in the big cities?!
I relocated to a region a few years ago and got hammered by local LMT's for undercutting the local market, well as I told many of them what I charge is no one elses business, I was constantly referred to as the Massage Envy of my region. So I moved again a few months ago to a larger city and it's littered w/ those Massage Envy's so I took a job based on my curiosity to see what all the hub bub was about, and what their Therapists were like.
Folks there is a place and enough business for all of us to charge what ever it is we feel our time is worth.
These Massage Franchises simply came into being all beacuse IMHO, due to LMT"s not marketing themselves well, and not being available. We are in the "I want it and I want it now " era.
Fact is folks these franchises are no cheaper than the National avg, sure they have gimmicks to lure in the client, but it's the lack of availability and in ability to easily find a therapist that has allowed these franchises to flourish.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Chance Ryan on
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I THINK I'M IN LOVE! kidding LOL! Love the sarcasm. I think that's where I'm having difficulty is fully getting my point across in typed words, since I spend very little time online, or have in recent years, I'm not fully aware of. But as I stated before I'm glad someone has grasped the full comcept of whtat I was stating or asking.
last thing I also fig I had to concern myself w/ was me responding to your posts and then they come at me w/ what I say to u, sure I know it's an open forum but I guess in my mind when talking to one individual it's about their entire post or line of questioning and can be taken and has been out of context.
But that was my point if you don't apply this belief structure to all aspects of your life, meaning if you don't pay more for items when they are provided for less somewhere else or when thier value has changed w/ economy or what every then that makes you a hypocrit. That's where I'm having difficulty when I volunteered at a local msg place that provided very affordable msg to a poorer public region, we were slammed w/ daily calls about this business's rates, and constantly slander, we wouldn't dare take CE's somewhere and mention we worked there as we'd get hammered or we did, and I recall thinking why are they so worried what we are doing, or why do they care, so I asked I had one tell me we owe it to the profession.
And I said well when is the profession or those complaining MT's going to show up and pay a bill of mine? I don't see Doctors/Nurses/PT's etc doing this it' s totally unprofessional and even un-ethical. So I came here to see as I"m about to move West and all I've been told is how different it is out West the people the way of life etc, I came here to post to see if this was the same way out West or in other places as well, and I'm seeing it may very well be..
In my mind when I got into Healthcare as a Nurse it was a calling not a choice, heck I could've taken a girlfriend at the time's fathers offer to join his RX Med supply company and make well over six figures, but it wasn't where I was happy, now maybe like in Nursing we began seeing an influx of RN's that came into the field for the job security or the $ which they quickly ran the profession down, maybe that's happening in MT, I don't know cause as I've said I havent' really socailized w/ MT's much except the past few years, so I was taken back with what I was hearing and seeing.
Stefanie Adams said:"I ask you then as I have my other MT brohters/sisters do you pay more for your house and everything else in it because the seller deems it to be more valuable than the same items or homes down the street? That's ok I'll answer that for you NO! We all shop and spend our money based on what we can afford, for some odd reasons your argument is the same one MT's has been using for years and it's honestly cost those who refuse to reprice or justify their rates to be passed by."
When I bought my house the seller was desperate. He had been transferred to a new job the year before and just couldn't sell. Obviously his price was set too high.
Finally I made an offer which he accepted. A few days before closing he called me personally asking for more money because the deal was $5,000 below his loan payoff. He bought the house at the height of the market, while I bought it during the decline. You can imagine what my response was! I'll summarize below:
"Of course I'll be more than happy to give you $5,000 extra, especially since that's what you think it's worth. You have to consider how valuable your investment and time into this house is. I want you to be able to afford to pay your bills, plan for your future, and take vacations. That would be extremely difficult for you unless I cover your mortgage deficiency."
What do you think about that response? ;-)
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Permalink Reply by Daniel Cohen on
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If both of you find reward and joy in what you do, why be so concerned about how another does it? How you charge seems a minor matter. There are Doctor's and Nurses as well as MTs who donate there work free of charge. This was done following Katrina but is done on a continuing basis in many places.
It seems if you are doing the best you can and get joy from it, the rest doesn't matter. Everyone has a preferred lifestyle and does their best to achieve it. Like those we work on, we are all individuals within the oneness.
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Then dear Sir my post isn't directed to you or those w/ like mindsets, Again not saying I charge less or what I charge at all, Just asking a question to those that do care what others charge, why they feel it's their business.
Maybe my point is getting lost somewhere, don't know, seems to me when a question is asked here some feel it's a self incriminating indictment of my personal business views or beliefs.
Now my personal feelings are and IMHO everyone else should follow this train of thought, cause as you stated it is a free market system, that being said what business is it of anyone else what someone else charges.
Daniel Cohen said:If both of you find reward and joy in what you do, why be so concerned about how another does it? How you charge seems a minor matter. There are Doctor's and Nurses as well as MTs who donate there work free of charge. This was done following Katrina but is done on a continuing basis in many places.
It seems if you are doing the best you can and get joy from it, the rest doesn't matter. Everyone has a preferred lifestyle and does their best to achieve it. Like those we work on, we are all individuals within the oneness.
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Permalink Reply by Julie Onofrio on
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So you didn't work at a place then that was undercutting others?
Then what did you mean by this?
I relocated to a region a few years ago and got hammered by local LMT's for undercutting the local market, well as I told many of them what I charge is no one elses business, I was constantly referred to as the Massage Envy of my region. So I moved again a few months ago to a larger city and it's littered w/ those Massage Envy's so I took a job based on my curiosity to see what all the hub bub was about, and what their Therapists were like.
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Permalink Reply by Stefanie Adams on
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You know I understand what you're saying, but I'd just let it go, Chance. Sure there are about 4 of us in the world who appreciate the concept of ideological consistency in this area. But most people are very happy charging as much as they can while paying as little as possible. "Treat others the way you want to be treated" is lost with most people when it comes to money!
This is why the discussion will always be diverted off topic, as you've noticed...
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Permalink Reply by Lisa on
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I'll bite cause I'm in the mood... :)
First off...my area's average price for massage is about $65. I charge $45 and for some, an exclusive rate of $35. Is that undercutting other therapists? NO. I charge what I charge based on MY individual parameters. I work out of my home so I have no overhead. My practice is still relatively new, and I am still gaining knowledge through CEUs. I SHOULDN'T be charging as much as a person who's had 10 years of experience (and a bigger toolbox) or someone that has to pay rent and utilities. THAT's what business is all about. When I'm ready to increase my prices will be based on if I have something new to bring to my customers and if my overhead changes. PERIOD.
As for the ME's of the world. I view them as being both positive and negative on our profession. With their "intro" low rate, and their immense resources for marketing, they have broadened our prospective clientele...making "massage" a more "common" service among society. Where before massage was only thought of for the rich, ME's have made it for the working man. That's a GOOD thing for all MTs. What I don't like about ME's and the likes, is that they use the "intro" just as a bait and switch to get clients in. They work off the same notion as gyms...knowing that the monthly membership fee will outlast the actual sessions for most people. And that part I don't like. I also don't like that they go through MANY MTs because most of them overwork MTs and under serve our clients. I have had several clients come to me because they were dissatisfied with ME and since my rates are around the same as their "intro" rate, clients come to me and are wow'd by the experience difference. That's a marketing plus for me.
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Yeah since I've started working there the staff are always tired, irratable and praying that their next client doesn't come in, the best thing about working at a place like this is it helps me see just how to not run the places I will be opening over the next few years.
While like you I like the busines model to some extent, I don't like the fact that the owners of these branches are not medical, nor are they in it for the idea to help others. I found it funny when interviewing w/ one of the owners and he told me that he's not like all the other owners he cares, yet when I met and spoke to his staff they said he was all about the coin, then I interview w/ another sites owner and he basically reads me the same act, I even interrupted him and quipped do you guys have a manual you read from, in the end it's all about the benji's to these people, and I understand w/ out making money they'd not be in business, but to me there is a way to run things and a way not to.
Lisa said:I'll bite cause I'm in the mood... :)
First off...my area's average price for massage is about $65. I charge $45 and for some, an exclusive rate of $35. Is that undercutting other therapists? NO. I charge what I charge based on MY individual parameters. I work out of my home so I have no overhead. My practice is still relatively new, and I am still gaining knowledge through CEUs. I SHOULDN'T be charging as much as a person who's had 10 years of experience (and a bigger toolbox) or someone that has to pay rent and utilities. THAT's what business is all about. When I'm ready to increase my prices will be based on if I have something new to bring to my customers and if my overhead changes. PERIOD.
As for the ME's of the world. I view them as being both positive and negative on our profession. With their "intro" low rate, and their immense resources for marketing, they have broadened our prospective clientele...making "massage" a more "common" service among society. Where before massage was only thought of for the rich, ME's have made it for the working man. That's a GOOD thing for all MTs. What I don't like about ME's and the likes, is that they use the "intro" just as a bait and switch to get clients in. They work off the same notion as gyms...knowing that the monthly membership fee will outlast the actual sessions for most people. And that part I don't like. I also don't like that they go through MANY MTs because most of them overwork MTs and under serve our clients. I have had several clients come to me because they were dissatisfied with ME and since my rates are around the same as their "intro" rate, clients come to me and are wow'd by the experience difference. That's a marketing plus for me.
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I'm just curious about something, Chance. Of course you don't have to answer if you don't want to.
I charge market price or below for two reasons 1: I value integrity and treat others the way I want to be treated. Since I want top service at fair prices for myself I offer the same to others. 2: I have what I want and I want what I have. The concept of acquiring more money holds absolutely no appeal to me. In fact, it seems very strange. It means more complication, higher taxes, and chasing materialism that ultimately leads to unhappiness.
I am 100% debt-free including my home. I take plenty of vacations and am set for retirement. I have never struggled to earn a living or pay a single bill. I did all of this by living below the American standard of living. If I can't afford to pay CASH for something, I save for it because credit devalues your work. I never buy new cars, name brands and don't waste money on cable TV, gym memberships etc.
Yet I'm the envy of everyone who knows me. I live in a funky 50s house in a desirable neighborhood and always seem to be off having fun somewhere around the world. I'm happy EXPERIENCING life because I don't want STUFF so I don't make myself miserable chasing it.
Does this sound like you, too?
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Permalink Reply by Darcy Neibaur on
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If money is everyone's priority then you are in it for the wrong reason. The love of money can NEVER be the priority. The client has to be the priority. Without the client there is no money. Massage Envy prices are in the market value for Pensacola. $49 introductory and $59 monthly membership fee. That's the set price. Maybe for other places this is below market value not here in Pensacola, FL My home business clients pay $50 an hour. So there you go.
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That sounds true to me too by the way. I live very simply living as a caretaker of a farm and have for 15 years, take the bus to work, take vacations when I want, have residual income and pay cash for everything too. I could move my personal belongings in a pickup truck.
I charge top dollar because my office is in downtown seattle where things are more expensive and that is the going rate, I can't do more than 15 massages a week because of the physical demands and I would rather be spending my time writing. I have been a mt for 23 years and have extensive training and do mainly injury work but also a mix of just stressed out business people.
When people are asking about someone elses prices and are concerned about them they are probably just fearful of losing clients. I have worked with a lot of massage therapists who undercut prices because they don't feel worthy of charging more or they are trying to steal clients from others because of their low self confidence and they end up burned out or going out of business anyways. Everyone does have to set their own prices to what they feel comfortable with and also that support you and are in integrity with your own values. When people fall to undercutting because they feel that is the only way they will get clients instead of based on the fact that they are a good mt, have physical and time limits to make income, they are out of integrity and will come off as the used car salesman of the massage profession.
So I would say the reason why people call and bring it up and complain that you are undercutting them is because they are afraid and they are probably not getting any clients and doing the marketing they need to get the clients. Talk of ME always brings up that fear in MT. They are some that love working there and some that don't like it but I hear more of those who don't like it of course. ME is successful because mt are not taught how to market themselves and there aren't many other jobs for people. Jobs are really a new concept in this profession. There were NO jobs in 1987 when I started.!
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Permalink Reply by Choice Kinchen on
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Well, all I can say is good for those of you who are debt free, don't struggle to pay bills and have residual income. Unfortunately, my wife and I have health issues that mean we will never be at a time when we have no medical bills, not have to do tests, not have expensive meds, not have times where our work is not affected by the illness.
I personally don't care what others charge, what ME charges or how many outlets they open around me or whether other therapists think I'm overcharging or undercutting. My clients come to me cause they like what I do. Corporate accounts become mine cause I get on a personal level with them...and they like my prices. If someone leaves me...then I wasn't what they wanted. Move on. I do not understand the whole business of minding other people's business. It's one thing to be informed. It's another to butt in or have your life changed based on other's actions. I guess being told you have less than a year to live brings on a new perspective on life and how to live it. I don't have the time or energy to worry about other's biz. That was 27 years ago I was told, by the way.
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Thank you for shattering my pre-conceived notions about you, Julie. I needed that! Darcy, you are so right. Without the client there is no money. That's why Chance is so correct about tailoring your prices to your particular clients' needs.
I have been mentoring MTs a while now, most of whom struggle in the business. I have never struggled a day financially (physically, mentally & emotionally a different story!!). I find that a focus on the following helps every single person I've mentored 1: meeting psychological needs with psychological solutions instead of material wealth, and 2: drastically reducing expenses.
The overwhelming majority of the folks I've mentored have kept prices the same or lowered them after achieving some degree of success with those two things. I find that high prices are not the answer to financial struggles. You end up in the same cycle of earn - spend too much - pay too many taxes - pay to fix the stuff you bought - earn some more to pay for it all. Most people do this in an attempt to meet psychological needs.
I would like to see more conversation on this instead of "how much do you charge".
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