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How does the minimum wage boost effect people who have more experience in doing the same job?
I have 1,063 hours and 50 clinical hours at school and been practicing for 6 years. If someone else just got out of school and gets hired for the same job. I'm only making a $1.15 more than they are. How's that fair?
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Permalink Reply by Stephanie Greenwald on
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In massage institutions like franchise companies, they pay you less than what they get paid as business owners. I work as an employee. I love my job and I'm starting a business in Manhattan Beach, California. They don't treat their staff very well when it comes to working for a franchise company. They make you work your butts off to help you stay out of poverty. If you work part time, you get paid less. If you work full time with no benefits and still get paid less, that's whats not fair. We've been dedicated our entire lives to work and make money. Why do all massage institutions pay their massage therapists less than $ 1.15 when they have more experience to work with people?
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Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on
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Pueppi, gave you a very good answer to your question or complaint. It fits in with my thread. " Typical experience." I'm actually making about the same or less money then I did 25 years ago. And I'm a much more advanced therapist now. Exponentially so. Life is not necessarily fair in general. And I'm personally not happy with the direction our profession is staying in. The most advanced Physical therapists and Chiropractors almost exclusively do soft tissue work. I know, I learned from them. And they make way more then minimum wage. Exponentially so. That being said. I'm into my work more then ever now. I see so much potential for both me and our profession. That's why I write in here.
Pueppi Texas said:
Pueppi Texas said:Then again, if you actually like your job, and are just agitated that a new hire is making close to the same amount as you, then you may be better off just letting it go instead of comparing your pay to the new hire.
I see that you misunderstood what I said. I should have said: "If you actually like the place you work at..." ^
Stephanie Greenwald said:In massage institutions like franchise companies, they pay you less than what they get paid as business owners. I work as an employee. I love my job and I'm starting a business in Manhattan Beach, California. They don't treat their staff very well when it comes to working for a franchise company. They make you work your butts off to help you stay out of poverty. If you work part time, you get paid less. If you work full time with no benefits and still get paid less, that's whats not fair. We've been dedicated our entire lives to work and make money. Why do all massage institutions pay their massage therapists less than $ 1.15 when they have more experience to work with people?
Do you really think you are telling anyone anything new?
Have you ever heard of a company that pays the employees as much as the business owners? There may be a situation (or even multiple situations) that exists, but I am having a hard time coming up with an example of one.
I am not saying franchises are great, or the one you work for is doing the right thing by you. But, you have to take into consideration that they still took the risk to open the facility in the first place. You and your colleagues didn't. You didn't lay down the chunk of change that it took to rent a space, do build-out, buy liability insurance, make sure to have enough in the bank so that you could pay to keep therapists on hand while the business was just starting, etc. Therefore, the business owners might be eligible to make a little more than the employees.
I don't like franchises. Period. I really don't. And I've worked my rear off for a wage I didn't like, just like everyone else who's had to start with nothing. I've even worked my share of crap jobs over the years. So, you are not talking to someone who doesn't understand that things can be hard and that yes, it can suck. You can go home with swollen joints because you had to see too many back-to-back clients over the period of a number of days. You can work a part-time massage job on-call for the concierge of a hotel until 2am, just because you need to pay the bills. You can work in dilapidated and unsafe areas of town for years at a time, not getting your paycheck until a month later (but not able to quit, because you know if you do, then you have nothing) because the business owner doesn't have money in the bank either. Yea. I get it. But, the sooner you realize that life is not going to be fair, the quicker you'll stop lamenting and grasp the facts head-on.
My answer to your question: "Why do all massage institutions pay their massage therapists less than $ 1.15 when they have more experience to work with people?"- Likely because your education beyond entry-level competency doesn't matter to them. It probably should, but it doesn't. If it did, you might get paid more. You are not getting paid more, so it is pretty easy to figure that more education and/or more years under your belt, is not the top priority for the company you are talking about.
The good news is that, yes, there are other companies who pay their therapists well, treat them well and are places where the therapists love their jobs. They are just a little more hard to find.
And, you feel like you have the guts to march out and try it on your own. So, you'll be able to do what you want and not have to worry about those franchises anymore.
But, as you probably know... it may not be easy. You may have to continue to work a lot of part-time jobs to get your own office going. So, if you do, you may be better off letting the fairness issue go, if you need to stay in employment in the facility you currently work in. Alternatively, you can ask your employer for a raise and wing-it. Who knows? But, whining about it, without a plan to change things in the facility you work in, certainly isn't a help to you.
I don't know what you want to accomplish by lamenting. You're certainly not likely to find people feeling sorry for you on a forum like this, if they've been through it too. But, they sure may be willing to help you figure out a way to get out of the situation, if you really want to do that. Business-minded therapists may be able to help you with your questions about opening your own business. So, maybe that would be a better route to go when asking questions.
As a side note: you may also want to read this thread from BWOL, which is very good example of how business economics work. Although this does not address your specific situation, it may help to shed light on a few things that you'll probably need to consider in the future.
I do hope this helps.
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'm not just complaining. I'm making it a statement as of how is it unfair as all massage therapists have been dedicated with our lives to make less than $16 an hour on a minimum wage. That's a bigger issue we are talking about. We need to have an organization to gather up fair ideas so we can calborate to build networking nationwide and start our businesses to help others not just us. Massage companies are falling apart here. It's very difficult to find a job that will pay you affordably so can make a living. My profession with massage therapy is affecting me very badly. I'm getting paid minimum wage from anywhere I work while working for someone else. Any ideas? What do you think?
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Just commenting out loud here. One of my co-workers was working part time in a chiropractic clinic along with several other therapists. She got paid $45 an hour for her work. One day one of her clients told her that she really loves her massage, but she won't be coming back because her insurance has run out, and it's just too expensive to pay for a massage here in this clinic on her own. My co-worker friend asked how much does a one hour massage cost here. The patient told her $290.00 for an hour. My co- worker friend went to the chiropractor and asked for a raise. The chiropractor said no. She quit working in that clinic because she makes just as much or more in the spa where we work. The massages cost $95 an hour there.. We get a percentage plus all the tips( ($10 to $20 an hour). When I worked in a chiropractic clinic back in the early 90s the chiropractor let us ( massage therapists) bill the insurance companies our selves and keep all the money. After all he was seeing 40 or 50 patients a day at $127.00 a patient.. I worked seven hours a day and billed $127.00 an hour. It's just sad to hear that a lot of massage therapists are only making $16.00 an hour in 2016. I'm very much against what's going on in our profession. All these certifications and fees and costs, education requierments don't do or stand for anything. Except another expense for someone making $16.00 an hour. All that being said. If you can get a medical doctor or chiropractor to send you insurance patients( auto accident ), you can bill insurance companies yourself and make decent money.
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Yea ,the insurance thing. It is a hassle. I did that for ten years. One thing I've noticed though. When the patients had insurance. They would come in forever. Ten, twenty, thirty, forty massages or more, until they were either denied coverage or settled their case... At which time you never saw them again. Now that I'm working in a spa.. If I have some one that's hurt.. They are paying out of pocket(cash). I gotta fix them fast. Or they are gone within one to four sessions.. Pueppi, I got out of the insurance thing because, like you said, of the hassle. But I recently met a young women, six months out of massage school, that works in a medical clinic and makes $90 an hour. So I'm re thinking things.. However, at this point In my career, I'd have a hard time fitting in to "most"clinics. My way of healing is so out of sync of what's considered normal. ..Most of the people I meet in the spa have long sense gone through the gauntlet of health care and insurance has run out. So out of desperation, they will give me a try. But boy, I gotta get results fast..
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Permalink Reply by Gary W Addis, LMT on
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Stephanie knew all you've said, in detail, Pueppis. I don't know, but IMO she wasn't asking for a lecture and a personal put-down. Chill, brother.
Keep the faith, Stephanie: it will get better, you will eventually find your niche.
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Sigh. A heartfelt sigh. She is gaining experience every day. She is dissatisfied; therefore, it's safe to say that she is looking for a better position. And if she is diligent, she WILL find a better paying position. I have a friend who has been at Massage Envy for a number of years, still making $16-$18 per massage. But evidently he is happy doing that. Stephanie is not: she is looking, planning to move along.
As for my prior comment (telling a naysayer to chill it), biting comments to Stephanie are hardly helpful, in essence telling her she is where she deserves to be since she is grumbling rather than moving on. It's the tone of some of the comments I object to. So, once again, I say, Chill it, sisters and / or brothers. She needed advice, not scolding criticism.
To Pueppi: Actually, her wording of her comment was indeed venting. To wit: she said, "I have 1,063 hours and 50 clinical hours at school and been practicing for 6 years. If someone else just got out of school and gets hired for the same job. I'm only making a $1.15 more than they are. How's that fair?" I don't think she asked, What can I do?
Laura Owen said:No, Gary, it won't get better, and I think that's the point of much of this discussion. I didn't realize when I responded to a very old post how much discussion I would stir up! I think the gist of much of the conversation is that no, it won't get better by complaining that other therapists should make less; instead, there are ways she could go out and make more. One of the responses made a great point - ask for a raise! And leave for another opportunity if the answer is no.
Telling experienced LMTs who are obviously making much more than $16/hr, and giving her advice on how to do it, to "chill" is counterproductive. Complaining about your wages on social media is counterproductive, unless of course you're trying to stir up a larger movement. Listening to people who have made massage therapy work for them, and make enough money to feel comfortable, is productive.
I was making $16/hr before massage school, and that was the best I had ever made in 30 years. I listened during school to the kinds of jobs available, what they pay, and what they expect, and decided that would not work for me. With less than $100 in the bank, and sometimes not even eating because I was totally out of money, I started my own out-call business (and I don't own a car!). A few weeks out of school I was netting $50/hr and enjoying myself much more than I would have in a spa or franchise. "Chilling" and waiting for "things to get better" would never have cut it - but following the advice of some of the same people who have responded to this post did.
The point is, there really is no "legitimate gripe" because they don't solve problems. No, things won't get better, she will have to make them better, which is what everyone here is trying to say. Thank god they don't "chill', because people like me continue to need their advice!
BTW, if anyone wants to know how I started an out-call business with $100 and no car, I will happily tell you everything I learned. The business world is totally made for the little guy these days.
Gary W Addis, LMT said:Stephanie knew all you've said, in detail, Pueppis. I don't know, but IMO she wasn't asking for a lecture and a personal put-down. Chill, brother.
Keep the faith, Stephanie: it will get better, you will eventually find your niche.
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Your first response to Stephanie was polite, and obviously wishing to help. Your next comment, however:
"Do you really think you are telling anyone anything new?
"Have you ever heard of a company that pays the employees as much as the business owners? There may be a situation (or even multiple situations) that exists, but I am having a hard time coming up with an example of one.
"I am not saying franchises are great, or the one you work for is doing the right thing by you. But, you have to take into consideration that they still took the risk to open the facility in the first place. You and your colleagues didn't. You didn't lay down the chunk of change that it took to rent a space, do build-out, buy liability insurance, make sure to have enough in the bank so that you could pay to keep therapists on hand while the business was just starting, etc. Therefore, the business owners might be eligible to make a little more than the employees."IMO, your tone was scolding, and, yes, rather caustic. Thus, my comments to you. Stephanie reported that she has six years of experience after completing a 1000+ hour massage school curriculum. Obviously, then: She was venting. Perhaps expecting some sympathy for her current trials and tribulations (that far too many skilled LMTs face their entire careers).
You're enjoying great success. Well, good for you. Unfortunately, most LMTs lack the requisite whatever to even attempt going out on their own. And in their area, there may not be alternative employers available. So, if they want to practice the skills they painstakingly developed, they work for the low wages Stephanie mentioned.
Now, one thing I noticed after rereading Stephanie's original posting and subsequent response to you. She mentioned that new LMTs were coming to work at the clinic and starting off $1.15 more than she was being paid, then asked her question, "Is that fair?"
Now, I;m complaining about your scolding tone, and here I am lecturing you. Gosh, I'm sorry. But I get defensive when friends and other good therapists are imo wrongly scolded as if they are inexperienced children.
Bye now.
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Hi Gary,
I saw yours and everyone's comments. Thank you for the advice.I was venting on most part. I most likely need advice and some answers so I can start building a network and start a business. For now, I'm afraid to do anything else with starting a business right now since it's about a corrupted election. I agree on most comments everyone has made and yes a couple people did lecture me and some comments are not useful. Advice helps and coming up with positive ideas since I'm stuck where I need to go next since the massage companies are going downhill.
Stephanie
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Stephanie, it may be the area you are in. Fees charged clients can vary greatly due to population density, average incomes paid, etc. I've worked in "depressed" areas where $10 per hour is considered good income, and a hundred miles away, the hourly average is $18 per hour-- and 200 miles farther, the hrly average might top $25. Obviously, the more money earned by the average citizen, the more service occupations will be able to charge. Massage therapy rates, therefore, will also vary, from $10 per hour of massage to as high as $500. MS casino LMTs are on average paid 40% of $150 to $350 massage fees, and they're usually collecting a nice tip ($10 to $100) on top of that.
Some working in a PT clinic or DC clinic are paid an hourly rate whether they are massaging or doing "make-do" work for the office. A fortunate few are paid exorbitant fees for traveling with a movie star, or rock band or a wealthy businessman. A few years ago I read an article in M&B magazine about a therapist who went to work at Google headquarters, getting paid a reasonable but not outrageous session rate which also provided stock options. A few years later when she left Google, she exercised her stock options and walked away with a couple million dollars. We should all be so lucky.
I wish you well, Stephanie. Keep developing your skills -- especially in trigger point therapy. Almost all LMTs can give a pretty good Swedish massage, but only a handful develop superior skill in finding and eliminating trigger points.
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You love to argue, I see that. But before elevating a fight, you should get your facts straight. This is her comment:
"If someone else just got out of school and gets hired for the same job. I'm only making a $1.15 more than they are. How's that fair?"
Now, even one with poor reading comprehension should understand that she was indeed referencing being paid less ($1.15 to be exact) than someone who just got out of school. As I wrote in my comment, and which you responded to by saying you don't like confusion??? Oh well, perhaps her mistype, the period after "job" instead of a comma caused your confusion.
Now, I think you and I are done. Entiende?
Pueppi Texas said:
Gary W Addis, LMT said:She mentioned that new LMTs were coming to work at the clinic and starting off $1.15 more than she was being paid, then asked her question, "Is that fair?"
Hi Gary,
I didn't have time to address this in my other response, but I also don't want to let it go. A misunderstanding like this can lead to more confusion. I don't like confusion.
Stpehanie said: "I'm only making a $1.15 more than they are.", not that new LMT's were starting off making more than she was being paid, as you suggested above.
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Pueppi,
I get what you're saying but you're not hearing me out. New hires make less and I make less to what's been given as a living wage. How is fair that I'm making less while new hires are making less wages as well?
My important issues listed
-Finding a decent job that pays well
-Filing a lawsuit against the company I use to work for that withheld my wages
-Starting a business while the economy is bad
-Why are therapists like myself make $ 1.15 less while working for a franchise company?
Hope it helps
Stephanie
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