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I really don't understand????
The other day I had a new client...A young healthy pregnant women.. About three months pregnant...Totally fit and healthy.. She told me that she was refused massage by two massage therapists because they were concerned about causing her problems? WTF? Both those therapists are nationally certified.. My goodness.. Chiropractors are adjusting pregnant women all the time.. Combine that with being taught to run to a medical doctor if you think you might be getting carpal tunnel.. What kind of education system is this? Its fake. Not real... This education system castrates massage therapists from the very beginning...Crippling our whole profession...And nobody involved in the education of our profession sees this? ... I guess this is more of a rant then a discussion... I just dont get why Im the only one that sees this??. Our education leaders don't see this??? That pregnant women was young and very healthy. All you new therapists out there... Know that you dont have a clue as to the capabilities of your profession...and you are loosing money. That pregnant lady is my new client now...I thank your teachers, education, and text book authors for that..
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by James Morrow on
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my only concern would be to get approval from her OB/Midwife... just to protect yourself in general... My wife is a Midwife and she recommends her clients to recieve massage as long as they are in good condition...
Congrats on the new client... hopefully she will let others know...
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Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on
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Protect myself from what?
James Morrow said:my only concern would be to get approval from her OB/Midwife... just to protect yourself in general... My wife is a Midwife and she recommends her clients to recieve massage as long as they are in good condition...
Congrats on the new client... hopefully she will let others know...
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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Baker on
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Any time a person is under the care of a doctor, it is wise to have their 'go-ahead' in case of complications. Perfectly healthy pregnant women have miscarriages all the time. What if this new client has one a day after a massage? What if she blames you for it? I am not against pre-natal massage in any trimester, but I will have her doctor's permission first.
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My goodness..Thats ridicules....You've been brainwashed. If a women is that fragile that a massage would cause a miscarriage. Just walking around your house or a sudden stop in the car would be dangerous...No way could a massage therapist cause a miscarriage unless they were out right abusive...I can safely say that I have massaged at least one pregnant lady a week for 28 years now....I look at and am careful with everyone I work on, pregnant women included.. Ok if a women has a history of miscarriages and looks sickly, very week, in and out of bed rest... maybe I wouldn't massage her? Has anybody in here ever known a massage therapist that caused a miscarriage?? Anyone.??? The therapist would have to be abusive or the women would have to be so incredibly ill and probably never be able to deliver a baby anyway.. Should be more worried about being hit by lightning...If you are pregnant and lived in Georgia, that would be more real. I lived their once..They have big lightning strikes.
Jennifer Baker said:Any time a person is under the care of a doctor, it is wise to have their 'go-ahead' in case of complications. Perfectly healthy pregnant women have miscarriages all the time. What if this new client has one a day after a massage? What if she blames you for it? I am not against pre-natal massage in any trimester, but I will have her doctor's permission first.
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Permalink Reply by Therese Schwartz on
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Gordon, you make really good points! And I'm sure you are right. But we live in the most litigious society on this planet and it's a good idea to be paranoid about protecting yourself. It's not about reality, it's about people's desire to blame someone else when something goes wrong.
I don't do pregnancy massage - I'm really glad you do!! I'm sure the women love it.
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Like the person said...perfectly healthy women have miscarriages....I do nothing to cause a miscarriage.. Nothing. Does anybody in here know a massage therapist that had to go to court because they caused a miscarriage? Everyone I work on is under doctors care for one thing or another...Pretty much anyway...Prescription drugs kill more people then anything....I have no fear about massaging pregnant women... How would my massage cause a miscarriage? What would I have to do.?? I know this country is litigation crazy....I worked with chiropractors for years... They adjust pregnant women right and left... Thats way more violent then anything Im going to do? The best thing in the world for a pregnant women is a massage.. They love it...Perception dictates belief...Massage is healing. Not dangerous.
Therese Schwartz said:Gordon, you make really good points! And I'm sure you are right. But we live in the most litigious society on this planet and it's a good idea to be paranoid about protecting yourself. It's not about reality, it's about people's desire to blame someone else when something goes wrong.
I don't do pregnancy massage - I'm really glad you do!! I'm sure the women love it.
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Gordon I can appreciate the fact that you have the years of experience to feel comfortable with no medical clearance... Everyone these days has the ability to sue for want ever they want... my comment about protection was for your practice but also for the peace of mind of the client...(letting them know that with all things during pregnancy complications can arise no matter how small the %, can show that you value their health as well as your practice.)
Best regards to all...
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Gordon, in resonse to "What would I have to do?" There are various points on the body that are known to cause contractions in pregnant women. There are some in the upper traps, below the knee, and near the ankles. In most all cases, you would have to use direct sustained pressure to cause a miscarriage, but some women may be more sensitive than others. It is highly unlikely one could accidentally cause a miscarriage in this way, but it is possible. I have not been 'brainwahed', thank-you very much. It is simply good sense to have a client's doctor's approval.
Gordon J. Wallis said:
Like the person said...perfectly healthy women have miscarriages....I do nothing to cause a miscarriage.. Nothing. Does anybody in here know a massage therapist that had to go to court because they caused a miscarriage? Everyone I work on is under doctors care for one thing or another...Pretty much anyway...Prescription drugs kill more people then anything....I have no fear about massaging pregnant women... How would my massage cause a miscarriage? What would I have to do.?? I know this country is litigation crazy....I worked with chiropractors for years... They adjust pregnant women right and left... Thats way more violent then anything Im going to do? The best thing in the world for a pregnant women is a massage.. They love it...Perception dictates belief...Massage is healing. Not dangerous.
Therese Schwartz said:Gordon, you make really good points! And I'm sure you are right. But we live in the most litigious society on this planet and it's a good idea to be paranoid about protecting yourself. It's not about reality, it's about people's desire to blame someone else when something goes wrong.
I don't do pregnancy massage - I'm really glad you do!! I'm sure the women love it.
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Permalink Reply by Daniel Cohen on
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There seems to be some disagreement between American Reflexology and Chinese Medicine on these points. While American Reflexology warns against pressing them all of my Chinese teachers have told me they will only work once the woman has dilated and can help with a stubborn delivery.
I would be very interested to resolve this debate. Does anyone have personal knowledge of these pressure/acu points causing a miscarriage?
There is also the wide variety of pregnancy massages. Some are simple relaxation spa treatments and others are therapy for early contractions, back pain, hip sublocation, and much more. Then there is the question of if a pregnant woman is "under a physicians care". I suspect most are not anymore than someone who has an annual check up, until late in the pregnancy.
Bottom line in working with pregnancy is, I believe, how sensitively do your hands "read"?
But we live in America where people earn livings on litigation and I live in California where the legal profession exists off of frivolous law suits. Be knowledgeable and make your own decisions.
Jennifer Baker said:Gordon, in resonse to "What would I have to do?" There are various points on the body that are known to cause contractions in pregnant women. There are some in the upper traps, below the knee, and near the ankles. In most all cases, you would have to use direct sustained pressure to cause a miscarriage, but some women may be more sensitive than others. It is highly unlikely one could accidentally cause a miscarriage in this way, but it is possible. I have not been 'brainwahed', thank-you very much. It is simply good sense to have a client's doctor's approval.
Gordon J. Wallis said:
Like the person said...perfectly healthy women have miscarriages....I do nothing to cause a miscarriage.. Nothing. Does anybody in here know a massage therapist that had to go to court because they caused a miscarriage? Everyone I work on is under doctors care for one thing or another...Pretty much anyway...Prescription drugs kill more people then anything....I have no fear about massaging pregnant women... How would my massage cause a miscarriage? What would I have to do.?? I know this country is litigation crazy....I worked with chiropractors for years... They adjust pregnant women right and left... Thats way more violent then anything Im going to do? The best thing in the world for a pregnant women is a massage.. They love it...Perception dictates belief...Massage is healing. Not dangerous.
Therese Schwartz said:Gordon, you make really good points! And I'm sure you are right. But we live in the most litigious society on this planet and it's a good idea to be paranoid about protecting yourself. It's not about reality, it's about people's desire to blame someone else when something goes wrong.
I don't do pregnancy massage - I'm really glad you do!! I'm sure the women love it.
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Permalink Reply by elizabeth mount on
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personal experience the points don't work unless you're ready to go. Working them a lot prolonged flase labor. Lame. Side note being pregent is treated as a medical unknown. They come up with all sorts of things you should and shouldn't do because pregency is apparently so mysterious that they can't/won't say anything for certain. What ever complaints discomfot you have the general additude seems to be oh well you're pregent deal with it. oopss sorry off topic rant.
on topic for the love of god massage pregent women!!!!! and even more get massage after the baby is born. That is some tramatic stuff for the pelvis. after which one is getting very little sleep and working hard. Lots of later back pain is cause by the shifts of pregency/deliver and early infant care before the relaxin disapates.
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Good point about post-natal massage. I offer a massage during which I work on Mother & Child. Started because new Mothers couldn't leave the baby but found to get great results for both. I found it to work best while the baby nurses.
Massage helps with infertility, throughout pregnancy (I've lost count how many I have massaged to term), and following for hip and prolapse recovery and baby bonding.
elizabeth mount said:personal experience the points don't work unless you're ready to go. Working them a lot prolonged flase labor. Lame. Side note being pregent is treated as a medical unknown. They come up with all sorts of things you should and shouldn't do because pregency is apparently so mysterious that they can't/won't say anything for certain. What ever complaints discomfot you have the general additude seems to be oh well you're pregent deal with it. oopss sorry off topic rant.
on topic for the love of god massage pregent women!!!!! and even more get massage after the baby is born. That is some tramatic stuff for the pelvis. after which one is getting very little sleep and working hard. Lots of later back pain is cause by the shifts of pregency/deliver and early infant care before the relaxin disapates.
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Thats complete bull poop...Id have to hit her in the stomach to cause any harm...Ive massaged thousands of pregnant women? Not even sure? For years and years...In medical clinics with MDs around as well as Chiropractors...Please tell me about a massage therapist thats had to go to court because they caused a miscarriage? You would have to be very unconscious and abusive...Its like every day I massage a pregnant lady.. What I have noticed is that massage therapists just repeat what they have been told.. I work on pregnant women...I say what I know...Ive worked on pregnant medical doctors pressing those points...nothings happenes....Different cultures have different points..What causes a miscarriage in one culture wont in another. I had a Chinese therapist tell me that American massage therapists are really making a mistake by massaging the top of the shoulders on pregnant women. She was all upset about it. I just shrugged my shoulders and walked away.. And of course anyone pregnant or not that looks ill and sickly, you approach differently...The young lady I worked on yesterday was fit and healthy.. Glowing and happy to be pregnant.....My goodness. If I had to have doctors permission to work on people id be on the phone all day long. PS- Im not personally angery at anyone in here..And I know that you are all good caring massage therapists..But you guys have been brainwashed. This is the kind of mindset that keeps massage therapist regulated or equal to a set of hot packs in the corner of the clinic. While at the same time Chiropractors are adjusting patients, pregnant or not, every two minutes charging the same rate as we do for a one hour massage...They dont have fantasy belief systems like we do..gosh.
Jennifer Baker said:Gordon, in resonse to "What would I have to do?" There are various points on the body that are known to cause contractions in pregnant women. There are some in the upper traps, below the knee, and near the ankles. In most all cases, you would have to use direct sustained pressure to cause a miscarriage, but some women may be more sensitive than others. It is highly unlikely one could accidentally cause a miscarriage in this way, but it is possible. I have not been 'brainwahed', thank-you very much. It is simply good sense to have a client's doctor's approval.
Gordon J. Wallis said:
Like the person said...perfectly healthy women have miscarriages....I do nothing to cause a miscarriage.. Nothing. Does anybody in here know a massage therapist that had to go to court because they caused a miscarriage? Everyone I work on is under doctors care for one thing or another...Pretty much anyway...Prescription drugs kill more people then anything....I have no fear about massaging pregnant women... How would my massage cause a miscarriage? What would I have to do.?? I know this country is litigation crazy....I worked with chiropractors for years... They adjust pregnant women right and left... Thats way more violent then anything Im going to do? The best thing in the world for a pregnant women is a massage.. They love it...Perception dictates belief...Massage is healing. Not dangerous.
Therese Schwartz said:Gordon, you make really good points! And I'm sure you are right. But we live in the most litigious society on this planet and it's a good idea to be paranoid about protecting yourself. It's not about reality, it's about people's desire to blame someone else when something goes wrong.
I don't do pregnancy massage - I'm really glad you do!! I'm sure the women love it.
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