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NCB is answering questions about the advanced cert
The Exam Development Director has put up a new blog answering questions about the advanced certification project.
Views: 266
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Gloria Coppola on
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Thanks for the update, I posted it on FB too
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Permalink Reply by Mike Hinkle on
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Form must have stopped working. Will post questions and follow-up questions here, so others may view and contribute also. I think non-moderated questioning/answering will answer things more thoroughly anyways. It would always make me wonder, what idea may not make it to the forum and I feel no association of membership should start a process that way.
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Permalink Reply by Darcy Neibaur on
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Thanks Laura for keeping us posted on this. I have conerns. Will wait and see what comes out next wee.
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Permalink Reply by Bert Davich on
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Thanks for the Heads UP Laura!
Hi Mike,
I just posted some questions after which I noticed they would not appear until moderated, so I'm going to post it here also although there is no reason why they should not post my questions there.
My Comment to NCBTMB regarding advanced certification:
Hi Liz,
I have some simple questions.
Your Statement to Mike:
"There is no advanced body of knowledge at this point. One will be created by the profession through the Job Task Analysis process for the advanced certification exam.
I cannot understand the reasoning of developing an advanced BOK by developing an exam first. That seems backward to me. I would think that an exam would be developed from a BOK.
Your statement to Mike....
"The BOK that currently exists for the profession is the one upon which the NCBTMBs existing exams are based and the one upon which the MBLEx is based - and the MTBOK is working on developing one
You clearly stated that a BOK exists and the NCBTMB is using it.
Then subsequently stated...
"The Job Task Analysis (JTA) is the tool used to define the knowledge, skills and abilities for which a specific exam will test, and the most recent JTA performed by the NCBTMB - and defining the knowledge, skills and abilities required for an entry level massage therapy practitioner - is available on our website.
Well I looked at the JTA and the only thing I could find regarding your statement was a small box that was headed "Task Analysis" in the .pdf file nce_report-1.pdf (page 4) which listed Task Domains: 1)Intake of information... followed by 4 more short 'Task domains, then Knowledge/Skill Domains: 1)General Knowledge of Body Systems 2)Anatomy Phisiology kinesology... followed by 4 more short 'domains' listed.
This hardly constitutes a BOK. If there is a BOK there and I missed it, please give us a link so we can find it. It seems to me that you should either post this BOK or explain why you (the NCBTMB) are unable or unwilling to do so.
I would like to state again that an exam should be created FROM a BOK to test a therapist's knowledge of clearly stated KSA's, not the other way around. This is particularly true for an 'advanced' certification.
I want you to know that your hard work is appreciated, but there are many therapist out here that feel like we are being treated like mushrooms and kept in the dark. This makes it difficult to get on board with your advanced certification plan.
Regards,
Bert
Posted by: Bert Davich | 11/11/2009 at 12:26 AM
Mike Hinkle said:Form must have stopped working. Will post questions and follow-up questions here, so others may view and contribute also. I think non-moderated questioning/answering will answer things more thoroughly anyways. It would always make me wonder, what idea may not make it to the forum and I feel no association of membership should start a process that way.
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Hi Laura,
After several questions failed to be posted or answered at the above mentioned page, I will post comments here. This censorship was my fear with a moderated site.
Hi Liz,
There are many folks writing and wanting to see the NCB BOK. Please post the location for that.
ABMP and AMTA have both said the best test is MBLEx.
Is your lost of revenue causing NCB to create another revenue source through advanced certification? You said this effort goes back to 1997. Why now is this being pushed to this degree, voluntary or not? The fact that NCB is suing states, making them retain the NCB tests, even when they do not want them, makes me wary of your reasons for this, now.
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Permalink Reply by Laura Allen on
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I don't think they are censoring. Bert and your comments both appear on the NCB website. I moderate the comments on my own blog, and I have never refused to print an answer from someone just because they disagreed with me. There are the spammers out there which is the reason I moderate.
Mike Hinkle said:Hi Laura,
After several questions failed to be posted or answered at the above mentioned page, I will post comments here. This censorship was my fear with a moderated site.
Hi Liz,
There are many folks writing and wanting to see the NCB BOK. Please post the location for that.
ABMP and AMTA have both said the best test is MBLEx.
Is your lost of revenue causing NCB to create another revenue source through advanced certification? You said this effort goes back to 1997. Why now is this being pushed to this degree, voluntary or not? The fact that NCB is suing states, making them retain the NCB tests, even when they do not want them, makes me wary of your reasons for this, now.
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Cool, thanks, Laura!
Laura Allen said:I don't think they are censoring. Bert and your comments both appear on the NCB website. I moderate the comments on my own blog, and I have never refused to print an answer from someone just because they disagreed with me. There are the spammers out there which is the reason I moderate.
Mike Hinkle said:Hi Laura,
After several questions failed to be posted or answered at the above mentioned page, I will post comments here. This censorship was my fear with a moderated site.
Hi Liz,
There are many folks writing and wanting to see the NCB BOK. Please post the location for that.
ABMP and AMTA have both said the best test is MBLEx.
Is your lost of revenue causing NCB to create another revenue source through advanced certification? You said this effort goes back to 1997. Why now is this being pushed to this degree, voluntary or not? The fact that NCB is suing states, making them retain the NCB tests, even when they do not want them, makes me wary of your reasons for this, now.
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Hi Laura,
Please note I didn't say I thought they would censor my questions, just that they would not appear until moderated and I saw no reason why they would not publish it. I made the entry late at night so did not expect an answer until this afternoon or even tomorrow.
Also I might add I am a member of the NCB. My questions were not meant to disrespect the NCB, rather they were meant to bring to their attention issues I feel they need to address if they expect to continue to play a key roll for massage therapy professionals.
The comments regarding their testing for 'advanced certification' stemmed from the original NCBTMB test I took here in MO. Frankly I found the test to be more about the ability to take a test of that nature than about measuring KSA achievement. I don't say this lightly. I did very well on the test, but the questions were asked using unnecessarily confusing language. Years ago I held a securities license. The securities tests were infamous for attempting to confuse rather than measure, and my experience confirmed they were. The NCBTMB test was much worse in using confusing language. Things like, "If X were not true which of the following would you not do" were rampant throughout the test. The double use of 'not' is meant to be confusing. A question measuring any specific KSA can be asked in straightforward language. Furthermore, the possible answers were often only valid if you made additional assumptions that were not included in the question. As the old man said "It Depends" (on omitted factors).
If the NCB wants to have an 'advanced certification' welcomed it is important that they make crystal clear what the KSA'a are for that certification and test, and make the Body Of Knowledge they are working with be available to all. If it is to be based on the 'input' of 7000 therapist's then the input used for that BOK should be made available. Otherwise it would be better to base the KSA's on specific material (books) that are available for anyone to see. There should be no mystery about the material used to determine 'advanced certification'. Otherwise we are still kept in the dark. I choose the light and enlightenment.
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Permalink Reply by Kim Goral on
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Thanks for keeping on top of this, Laura! Interesting reading...and lots of unanswered questions..
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Bert, I know you didn't use the word "censor", Mike did. At any rate, your and his comments are both posted.
I have been nationally certified myself since 2000.
I think the use of double negatives and other "distractors" is a common practice in many exams. I'm not saying that's the correct way to do things; I just think it's a common practice. I have been teaching a prep class for the exam since 2002 and I always warn students to be aware of that. My exam prep book, now in its 2nd edition, warns about the same thing.
I do want as many people as possible to weigh in on the NCB's blog...there are a lot of comments being made in other places, and we can all complain amongst ourselves until the cows come home and that won't do any good. I appreciate you and everyone else who goes to their site and lets THEM know how you feel, whether it's for or against, and asks them questions.
One thing is clear to me, and that is that they have finally come to the painful realization that they do need to listen to the stakeholders. I have ridden them very hard in my blog for the past couple of years, to the point where their lobbyist actually complained about me on the floor of the NC Legislature. He was informed that this is still America and there is still freedom of speech. I'm glad to be able to report that it appears that they are now paying attention, if nothing else. I hope they will take everyone's comments to heart.
Bert Davich said:Hi Laura,
Please note I didn't say I thought they would censor my questions, just that they would not appear until moderated and I saw no reason why they would not publish it. I made the entry late at night so did not expect an answer until this afternoon or even tomorrow.
Also I might add I am a member of the NCB. My questions were not meant to disrespect the NCB, rather they were meant to bring to their attention issues I feel they need to address if they expect to continue to play a key roll for massage therapy professionals.
The comments regarding their testing for 'advanced certification' stemmed from the original NCBTMB test I took here in MO. Frankly I found the test to be more about the ability to take a test of that nature than about measuring KSA achievement. I don't say this lightly. I did very well on the test, but the questions were asked using unnecessarily confusing language. Years ago I held a securities license. The securities tests were infamous for attempting to confuse rather than measure, and my experience confirmed they were. The NCBTMB test was much worse in using confusing language. Things like, "If X were not true which of the following would you not do" were rampant throughout the test. The double use of 'not' is meant to be confusing. A question measuring any specific KSA can be asked in straightforward language. Furthermore, the possible answers were often only valid if you made additional assumptions that were not included in the question. As the old man said "It Depends" (on omitted factors).
If the NCB wants to have an 'advanced certification' welcomed it is important that they make crystal clear what the KSA'a are for that certification and test, and make the Body Of Knowledge they are working with be available to all. If it is to be based on the 'input' of 7000 therapist's then the input used for that BOK should be made available. Otherwise it would be better to base the KSA's on specific material (books) that are available for anyone to see. There should be no mystery about the material used to determine 'advanced certification'. Otherwise we are still kept in the dark. I choose the light and enlightenment.
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Here's my point! There are four, at least, discussions talking about this issue and Gloria Coppola's survey as well. It looks like 8 out of 10 people are "against" advanced certification, especially, as a test from NCB. Why is this going forward? They are using info from 1997 to go ahead now. Therapists had less organizations back then and were trying to get established. There was not as many people with their hand out towards therapists. Times are different.
Liz says 4,000 surveys are being reviewed. Were they only sent to NCB members? I have been a NCB member since I graduated, I did not get a survey. Were they sent to the initial NCB members that all said "yes", at that time? I do not see or hear from but a handful of people, for this effort and almost all of them are NCB approved instructors.
To release this exam in April is wrong. I know there is a fantastic group working behind the scenes on this, some are my friends, but this effort, I feel, will be for naught, if things are not slowed down. The MTBOK, they are saying is a reason to go forward, will not even be released to the public until May in Seattle, WA.
Slow down, gather more information across the profession and it may work. Keep forcing and I think it will be rebuffed. If no one takes a "voluntary" test, what has been gained?
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