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The View Comments on Massage
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Oh, the flap on The View. I’m sure this will carry on for days and weeks.
Here's a YouTube link: The View - Al Gore's massage and other poorly chosen comments
Yea, our profession was ‘wronged.’
Here’s my advice: Use it.
I’m sure no one here as ever called a doctor a quack, or an attorney/lawyer an ambulance chaser, or a computer expert a nerd.
Sure, most of us are not on national TV, but I've seen a ton of 'foot in mouth disease' from all kinds of industries.
Please note that I’m not defending anything that was said.
Here’s my point:
What are each and every one of us going to do (other than complain) to improve our own massage business/practice? Can you take what was said and use it to stoke that internal fire? Go and find a mirror and take a long hard look at yourself. Talk to yourself (or others) and figure out how to use this to improve your own business. Do you have a burning desire to be respected as a professional massage therapist or bodyworker? Then put this to use!
Is it just me, or can anyone else see an opportunity here? To break away from the pack? Leave the weak behind and step up to the plate!
What can you use from that TV show to really turn internally and improve upon? Are we always as professional as we can be with our clients? How about customer service? What about all that time and energy wasted in internal dialogue complaining about how we were ‘dissed’ and put it to good use in creating a new massage marketing campaign?
Action speaks louder than words. Lead by example.
Who/what can we change? Ourselves.
What is demanding an apology from The View going to do? The damage has already been done.
Are we, each and every one of us, doing all that we can? Being the best that we can be?
I know that's what I'm focusing on.
Kris
Views: 1060
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Las Vegas Massage In Summerlin on
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Argh....this seems to be getting worse. (IMHO of course!)
On Facebook there's a huge push to sign a petition against The View, and now they are going after their sponsors.
I will not sign right now due to the fact that, from what I've seen so far, it's not the way to go about it; it's not the right way to address and handle this situation. Here's my Facebook reply:
Hmmm....I'll keep an eye on this for now. I'm unsure if two wrongs make a right. How so? If 'we' were publically bashed, is the best thing to do is to turn around and publically bash them back?
It's not what you do, it's HOW you do it. Perhaps a call from the presidents of the national associations or a petition with CORRECT WORDING would get them to act, as opposed to putting them on the defense.
I see that if we DEMAND public action, all that will do is put them on defense. Since these folks ARE in the public eye, what is making them look bad going to do? Who likes being made to look bad, especially in the public eye??? Puts them on the defense, and that leads to re-action, which is seldom positive. 'They' seem more powerful than 'we' are. What if these 'demands' and 'going after' their sponsors really pisses them off? They could really get their digs in, me thinks. We're after allies, not enemies.
What if Ocean Spray is in a joint venture with a large massage organization promoting health and wellness (healthy drinks and massage) and a bunch of half cocked MT's decide on some rebelliion? They may cancel the deal.
How about if GoDaddy catches wind of this, doesn't like what's occuring, and decides to run a whole flurry of ads with douchebag Danika Patrick as the sleezy MT?
How about a civil negotiation? A discussion that raises ALL points involved? Perhaps it's just my years as a negotiator coming out, but from what I've seen being DEMANDED by MT's...it just looks like a bad idea and not the way to approach this.
There's an old book that's right on the tip of my brain that addresses this...Think and Grow Rich isn't the one, I don't think....I can't remember, but it has many examples of how to handle situations like this.
Let me also ask a question: Was it their intent to bash the massage industry? If so, I didn't see it. What I saw was a bit of gossip that got out of hand, as well as, some personal experience. The blonde gal gave her story, and guess what? I've been in that exact situation with clients. I show up as a male MT getting ready to massage wifey-poo and many times the husband isn't too thrilled. Oh well, education time. I make peace with the husband prior to any massage taking place.
Am I saying to bend over and take it? Nope. I'm saying take a step back, think about this, think about all parties involved, and communicate a solution that works out best for all.
Kris
P.S. I wasn't going to say it, but it needs to be said. If half of these concerned MT's spend half as much time growing their business as opposed to bitching, pissing and moaning about a public comment that probably less than 10% of their clients watch, our industry would certainly be in a much better (financial) state.
Oh, you say 100% of your clients saw this or heard about it? Great! What an opportunity for you to educate them! I wrote about this over here: http://www.massageprofessionals.com/forum/topics/the-view-comments-...
I'll be the fall guy, no problemo. Again, a proper negotiation in regards to this seems a much better approach (to me) than any Demands.
Kris
P.S.S. - Feel free to add your thoughts. These, once again, are just my opinions.
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Permalink Reply by Elfriede on
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Relax & Rejuvenate said:
so am i. listening to Hagerty's statement to the investigators i find her highly credible and composed.I am not going to say whether a crime was committed or not, nor will I assert that she did not have such problems with "lesser" clients. I am inclined to believe this to be the case.
former prosecutor Robin Sax commented on TV: "this incident could have occurred."
I said the likelihood of bad behavior is directly proportional to the hotel status -- not the client's status.
i refered to this part of your earlier entry:
we found the higher rated the hotels and the later the appts, the higher likelihood of bad behavior from clients.
you speak of the sense of entitlement.
on page 1 you made flwg remark
> not a peep on the lecherous VEEP / lying MT
would anyone go out after 3+ years of contemplation and take the heat of the public by standing up against an idol backed
up by the liberal press and ... and risking to be found out a liar?
to slur sb's reputation is also a crime. if so, Gore's lawyers would have jumped on that case already. he himself keeps quiet.
our services are promoted and marketed by the hotel under THEIR name
Police tapes Jan 2009 - Hagerty audio interview with Sexual Assault Detail Advocacy Program:
Portland massage therapist accuses Al Gore of groping her
Published: Friday, June 25, 2010
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/police_release...
audio Part 3
min 3:00 — Hagerty explains call up process at the hotel.
min 4:20 — Hagerty describes billing process.
min 9:10 — Hagerty talks about the intermingling of sexuality and massage therapy.
min 12 -- Hagerty says: 2-3 of the LMTs act visibly as prostitutes (hunting the money trail) and damage the safety of their colleagues.
min 15:45 — Hagerty talks about personal experiences of inappropriate behavior in her massage therapy career.
You hardly ever hear about guests being jerks with the housekeeper or room-service waitress,
so consequently we have weeded out many potential jerks.
how did you weed out the jerks?
Hagerty reported that the concierges are way too incompetent to weed out jerks.
We also require all contractors and employees to report any "drunk and disorderly" behavior at the time of the incident.
We also have it in our contracts that we have to report this to the hotel. For everyone's protection.
again, this makes perfect sense. it's applying transparency within a team.
the interesting twist that has yet to emerge is the hotel's responsibility/liability in this. The Hotel contracted the MT, not Mr. Gore.
They put her in harms way, it could be argued.
good point, R&R,
what does it mean - practically? is she to sue the hotel for not having weeded out Al Gore as a "jerk". (being alcohol-fueled)
they were overly excited and expected her to give Gore "the royal treatment" which she was willing to do, meaning not running
out of his room screaming the halls with "sex offender". she feared to be "killed" by the security people in the hiding as the Gore offender.
apparently the hotel had provided him with a "treat box" filled with condoms. it might have been his trick to smuggle them in.
the condom was Gore's insinuated rationale for having the consent of the hotel for abusing the MT. short sighted Hagerty -
declared it to be a sewing kit.
in the end it was on her to report back to them. she could barely sign her name on a receipt on the front desk that night.
One of the reason's Marriott banned in-room massage is they wanted to avoid the liability of having their employees
being the ones contracting MTs who might be harmed or cause harm while on property.
this is simply a wise and attentive decision. not as convenient for the customer. my suggestion was to bring a mandatory
extra witness in case of in-door service.
R&R, my question/suggestion to you was to inform the press about the handling of massage sessions
before and after the incident - in the Lucia and in other Portland hotels. and having them get the word out that
there is a more decent and safer way than grafting the concierge.
i find it quite revealing. in regard to raising the standard of safety and transparency i applaud to the solution you have found
with the Mariott and your team.
your observations and experiences with hotel staff are valid and they coincide with / confirm what Hagery had mentioned
in respect of being a contractor of the hotel, not of Gore. he offered her money when she left. she said it's taken care of
by the hotel. she had some hassle afterwards to get paid in full by them.
best regards
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Permalink Reply by Shawn Maria Brinza on
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Where does it all end? As mad as it makes me, I agree it should be used to educate people that massage and sex are in fact two separate things.
Don't forget its not against the law for a man to ask for a sensual massage its only against the law to accommodate.
I have actually had guys make an appt, then ask if it will be a sensual massage and when I say NO they cancel the appt.
I have never to my knowledge ever had anyone just expect it. And I have had men say they are happy I don't pressure them. What the hell...
I can't imagine doing something like that. But the minds of those outside my home, its a wild world... educate, educate, educate... one person at a time.
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Permalink Reply by cocrea on
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Alex Jones, admittedly molested by an educator when he was a boy, sheds some more light on the
Gore-Hagerty scandal - in favor of the credibility of LMT Hagerty.
he says, there are high-class hotels in Nevada with a button "massage" in guest rooms with the effect that
those who push the button are provided with a prostitute.
part 2 of 2, min 2:24 -- Gore: "why are there condomes in this hotel room? this is a hotel room that supplies me this."
part 2 of 2, min 2:56 -- Gore: "this is oriental massage!" (code word for sensual massage followed by a sex act)
part 2 of 2, min 3:30 -- the code word for the sex act is "happy ending".
Alex Jones TV: Is Al Gore a "Crazed Sex Poodle?"
part 1 of 2, 2:49 minutes duration, posted 1. July 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9f3zFVK0hU
part 2 of 2, 6:20 minutes duration, posted 1. July 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAV3FwnNuLk
Jones takes it for a fact that the hotel supplied condomes in the "treat box".
the concierge of hotel Lucia in Portland had
a) an unclear room service deal with the Gore aides and with Hagerty
b) she/they did not speak plain language what kind of service they actually expected when using the code word "royal treatment".
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Permalink Reply by Relax & Rejuvenate on
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It is illegal. It is called solicitation.
Shawn Maria Brinza said:Don't forget its not against the law for a man to ask for a sensual massage its only against the law to accommodatediv>
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Perhaps it's because I practice in Las Vegas that I'm a bit de-sensitized by all of this. I've had more strange offers (by men and women) than most humans can imagine.
My only point was to learn from these comments.
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Kris - Thanks for bringing this issue to the front. The discussion on The View was not very generous to massage therapists, but you are right - let's use it to our advantage. The old adage "any press is good press" certainly can be put to good use now. I also agree that as massage therapists, we do little to dispel the public's misconceptions about massage.
Therapist are taught not to use the the terms masseur or masseuse, but we as a group, have done nothing to publicly notify the general population that these terms are no longer acceptable. I have seen therapists arrogantly snap at potential clients for saying 'masseuse'. Ouch! and not good for business. The cure is worse than the bite in that case.
As long as we see terms like 'ethical' massage, are we implying that others are out there doing unethical massage? We try to distance ourselves from sex professional, but we really need to create our own identity free of any connection to prostitution and other unethical work. So many of our Code of Ethics need to be rewritten for what we do, not what we don't (or won't do).
Let's face it, working one-on-one in a dark room can raise a lot of questions. I think it is time to bring massage out of the dark recesses and into a bright sunny place, literally and figuratively. Let more people see what happens in a massage session, work in a sunny room, open the door, work on friends and family, and we should never have to be afraid of bumping into a client in public. We can still maintain confidentiality without being secretive.
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that's odd, Kris. de-sensitization may have triggered the hosts of The View to rudely brush over a fellow woman and demeaning her because she did not get this abuse case going right from start. they, the general public keen on sensationalism and scape goating, and a big portion of men (and women), who just cannot imagine what trauma does to the psyche, keep the status quo in place - unwittingly.
this is a message to contemplate addressed to The View and other vilifiers:
Debbie Fox, Oregon Coalition Against Domestic And Sexual Violence says:
"bringing a case to court often means reliving the trauma.
2 % of reported sexual assaults are false accusations.
Once a victim does come forward the process can be healing."
source: Audio of Al Gore sex assault victim released
2:00 minutes duration, 25. June 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2o4Ul4meK0
Kris Kelley said:~
Perhaps it's because I practice in Las Vegas that I'm a bit de-sensitized by all of this. I've had more strange offers (by men and women) than most humans can imagine.
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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Robin on
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I really like what you said about brining massage into the light. After all, you never get solicited doing Chair Massage in the middle of say Whole Foods. I think that is why i prefur chair massage. I think we should learn from what was said by the women on the View. I don't watch it myself since I consider there comments at times to be vulgar but if that is the mindset of many others out there we need come up with a statagy to fight it in our own individual practices and not just shout our disaproval. Actions always speek louder than words. What stands out to me is what the one woman said about the MT who came to her door to work on her husband, the fact that even the music added to her reaction. Maybe that should give us all pause for thought. How are we setting up our rooms, how do we present ourselves, what music even do we play. What about leaving a door open... does it really have to be closed? I recently had a massage in a therapists home and it was in her living room open to the rest of the house and I felt more comfortable there as a client than I ever have in a small closed off darkened room. I think too that I have been able to avoid most problems by having a very clear written waver on my client intake sheet. The only person who ever gave me a problem was when I forgot to have him fill it out. Just wanted to add my two sense and see what others thought. I would loive to hear more suggestions on how to bring massage into the light as Laurie Russel said.
Laurie Russell said:Kris - Thanks for bringing this issue to the front. The discussion on The View was not very generous to massage therapists, but you are right - let's use it to our advantage. The old adage "any press is good press" certainly can be put to good use now. I also agree that as massage therapists, we do little to dispel the public's misconceptions about massage.
Therapist are taught not to use the the terms masseur or masseuse, but we as a group, have done nothing to publicly notify the general population that these terms are no longer acceptable. I have seen therapists arrogantly snap at potential clients for saying 'masseuse'. Ouch! and not good for business. The cure is worse than the bite in that case.
As long as we see terms like 'ethical' massage, are we implying that others are out there doing unethical massage? We try to distance ourselves from sex professional, but we really need to create our own identity free of any connection to prostitution and other unethical work. So many of our Code of Ethics need to be rewritten for what we do, not what we don't (or won't do).
Let's face it, working one-on-one in a dark room can raise a lot of questions. I think it is time to bring massage out of the dark recesses and into a bright sunny place, literally and figuratively. Let more people see what happens in a massage session, work in a sunny room, open the door, work on friends and family, and we should never have to be afraid of bumping into a client in public. We can still maintain confidentiality without being secretive.
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since June 24 - July 6 The View has received 39 comments.
they had delayed to post 2 of my comments for up to 3 days. both of them have now appeared among the comments.
one has been clipped. the part wherein i had suggested to them to invite Hagerty, a member of the ABMP, and a therapist
to their show to make up for the damage and to help educate the public was edited out.
see: http://theview.abc.go.com/comments/168950?page=0%2C2 Hot Topics: Al Gore's Massage
this is THE VIEW's board policy: "Comments are moderated by ABC, in accordance with the ABC Comment Policy, and may not appear on this blog until they have been reviewed and deemed appropriate for posting. Also, due to the volume of comments we receive, not all comments will be posted."
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Hi Ezekiel,
the NE has confirmed that she had asked for that money. however, they didn't pay her any money for the first article they broke. they went to the Portland police and got Hagerty's written statement for free. it is for public use on request. however, the identity of Hagerty remained undisclosed. the 2nd article showed her photo on the front page and disclosed her name. people speculate that NE has probably paid her x amount for that. it is their policy.
Hagerty's lawyer declared to the police in 2007 that his client would apply for a civil suit, which she never did.
in her long statement to the sexual assault inspector she declared that she didn't want to be bought off into silence.
she wanted justice and the Gore would be stopped. she said then that she did not care any more for her name being out
in the media.
the Portland Tribune could have had this "feast" back in 2007 - without naming names. they declined. in 2009 and in 2010 the tribune had another chance and declined again. the lawyers of Gore said "absolutely not true". and Hagerty didn't want to play by their rules - and the did not find any other LMTs in those cities where Gore was traveling who answered to their ads via the Craigslist (* i don't know what that is). i have posted the link to the Portland Tribune earlier on in here. on pg. 2 you find the chronology. they know it better than other newspapers.
Ezekiel OBrien said:I am curious if there has been any follow up to the report on June 25th In the Washington Post and reprinted in several other dailies that the massage therapist was shopping a full account to the National Enquirer for one million dollars? Or whether this was noise put out to discredit her?
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Permalink Reply by Choice Kinchen on
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First of all, Laurie, I have never been afraid to bump into a client in public. Why would I? I am a professional, ethical massage therapist with 10 years of experience. Most of my biz is in corporate chair massage and most of my table work come from my chair clients or referrals. I have never done anything to make my clients think of me other than professional. If I saw my clients in public, I might even (horrors!) talk to them.
Jennifer, I don't know how long you've been licensed, but, well, first of all, I don't think there is ever anything that can be learned from the women on the View. They are ignorant and quite frankly probably won't get what all of the uproar is about. My room is set up professionally. I present myself professionally. My music is soothing solo piano. Whether it be inhouse or outcalls, my clients love what I do. Why would I change to accommodate other people's insecurities or ignorance? Any comments that I ever have heard about "happy endings" "rubbing people"etc have been said by jerks and other people who will not change their way of thinking just cause you leave the door open. Educating is one thing. It is another to tell someone their way of thinking is wrong and you're right...even if that is the case. You are not going to convince everyone that what we do is professional...not going to happen. Idon't need their business, that type of client. The clients I have have been carefully selected so that I have people who understand what massage is about and is appreciative of it's effects. They don't want me to change my music or the way I present myself, They don't want me to turn on all of the lights and throw open the doors. They are comfortable the way it is.
While having a waiver and having someone sign it is a good idea, don't think that that piece of paper will protect you. It's like having a restraining order filed on someone....looks good, doesn't stop them if they decide to break it.
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