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The View Comments on Massage
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Oh, the flap on The View. I’m sure this will carry on for days and weeks.
Here's a YouTube link: The View - Al Gore's massage and other poorly chosen comments
Yea, our profession was ‘wronged.’
Here’s my advice: Use it.
I’m sure no one here as ever called a doctor a quack, or an attorney/lawyer an ambulance chaser, or a computer expert a nerd.
Sure, most of us are not on national TV, but I've seen a ton of 'foot in mouth disease' from all kinds of industries.
Please note that I’m not defending anything that was said.
Here’s my point:
What are each and every one of us going to do (other than complain) to improve our own massage business/practice? Can you take what was said and use it to stoke that internal fire? Go and find a mirror and take a long hard look at yourself. Talk to yourself (or others) and figure out how to use this to improve your own business. Do you have a burning desire to be respected as a professional massage therapist or bodyworker? Then put this to use!
Is it just me, or can anyone else see an opportunity here? To break away from the pack? Leave the weak behind and step up to the plate!
What can you use from that TV show to really turn internally and improve upon? Are we always as professional as we can be with our clients? How about customer service? What about all that time and energy wasted in internal dialogue complaining about how we were ‘dissed’ and put it to good use in creating a new massage marketing campaign?
Action speaks louder than words. Lead by example.
Who/what can we change? Ourselves.
What is demanding an apology from The View going to do? The damage has already been done.
Are we, each and every one of us, doing all that we can? Being the best that we can be?
I know that's what I'm focusing on.
Kris
Views: 1061
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by cocrea on
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hi Kris,
the youtube link which you have provided is not valid any longer.
this one will do. http://theview.abc.go.com/video/hot-topics-al-gores-massage
this one is a show dd June 30 - 6 days later - The View ladies have not taken the chance to change their attitude
and watch their language. they are still showing how ill informed they are.
Whoopi Goldberg starts of with "the masseuse..."
abcnews the view - 3:47 minutes, 30. June 2010
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/video/whoopi-goldberg-blasts-al...
this poster comments: "so far, vocal feminists haven't uttered one word in Molly-the-masseuse's defense."
http://www.freedominion.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=1509110&sid=e...
best
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Permalink Reply by Las Vegas Massage In Summerlin on
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Seems you hit the nail on the head with this one Steve:
"Quite telling EACH OTHER that you are professionals and turn that megaphone towards the general public."
As well as the gist of my original post: Is anyone using this to improve their own practice?
Kris
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Permalink Reply by Relax & Rejuvenate on
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Kris Kelley said:~
Seems you hit the nail on the head with this one Steve:
"Quite telling EACH OTHER that you are professionals and turn that megaphone towards the general public."
As well as the gist of my original post: Is anyone using this to improve their own practice?
Kris
There is significant long-term potential for our business from this incident. Short-term, it is a pain in the ass dip in business.
After the "CraigsList Killer" episode in Boston, we picked up several new clients -- hotels looking to formalize their in-room spa offering and ensuring their guests safety and legal protection for themselves by contracting an established vendor with significant safeguards in place and appropriate liability insurance, instead of leaving in-room massage up to the concierge and their rolodex of highest-paying, independent contractors, licensed or not.
Marriott has since banned in-room massage, which created a whole new market for us in creating licensed massage facilities in hotels that previously did not have them.
Same happened after Heath Ledger was found by his MT, who turned out to be unlicensed. everyone starting asking MTs in NYC for their licenses and a whole lot of hotels had their MT lists culled.
Illegal/unsavory events under their roof is the bane of a hotel manager's existence. The Mayflower is still dealing with Elliot Spitzer jokes. We offer them a solution to what has historically been transactions on the margins of legality (and I don't mean sexual) which come to light when incidents like these find hotel legal departments reviewing current practices.
By the end of the year, I suspect this will increase our business by increasing our market share, though overall usage may still show a dip.
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Relax & Rejuvenate wrote:
hotels looking to formalize their in-room spa offering and ensuring their guests safety and legal protection for themselves by contracting an established vendor with significant safeguards in place and appropriate liability insurance, instead of leaving in-room massage up to the concierge and their rolodex of highest-paying, independent contractors, licensed or not.
Marriott has since banned in-room massage, which created a whole new market for us in creating licensed massage facilities in hotels that previously did not have them.
that sounds promising. does Mariott offer out-room massages late at night provided by LMTs?
Hagerty gave 2 different massages back to back. 1st: 90 minutes, 2nd: 75 minutes.
she was ordered at 10:30 pm and had to wait until 11 pm until "Mr. Stone" was ready. the Portland Lucia had back biting concierges. some girls acted like groupies. (listen to her audio statement.)
Hagerty had worked hard on gain a reputation in highclass hotels in Portland. she superseded the younger massage therapists by far in credentials. in one occasion she worked as a double with another massage therapist who was dressed improperly sexy.
she was not willing to confide with the front desk what had happened to her with client Gore.
she reports one or two other occasions where she had to deal with clients in hotels who expected sexual favors.
a super-rich client mentioned "sex" 17 times during the session. he gave up when she declared to him, "I am a good girl."
Gore didn't take her repeated NOs for a NO. he took resistance as an invitation.
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I can't speak for all Marriotts, but we take our last appt at 9PM at any hotels. Anything after that is on a volunteer basis only, subject to an additional fee.
In years prior, before we worked under exclusive contracts with our hotel partners and marketed to and through the concierge network, we found the higher rated the hotels and the later the appts, the higher likelihood of bad behavior from clients. Something about paying $500 a night for a hotel room seems to lead some folks to think they can act as they please!
Perhaps not coincidentally, we started an exclusive service contract with the Hotel Lucia in early 2007. lasted about 4 months -- they had to buy us out because the staff refused to play along and liked doing things their way.
I am fairly troubled by the various posts here chastising the MT for violating client confidentiality. Please! A) if she thinks a crime was committed, she has every right and, some would argue, responsibility for reporting it. Police reports are public records, which is how the media got ahold of this story. She did nothing wrong.
B) There are hundreds of MTs who list their celebrity clients on their websites, many who put if front and center as part of their identity. Where is the hue and cry over their shameful behavior?
cocrea said:Relax & Rejuvenate wrote:
hotels looking to formalize their in-room spa offering and ensuring their guests safety and legal protection for themselves by contracting an established vendor with significant safeguards in place and appropriate liability insurance, instead of leaving in-room massage up to the concierge and their rolodex of highest-paying, independent contractors, licensed or not.
Marriott has since banned in-room massage, which created a whole new market for us in creating licensed massage facilities in hotels that previously did not have them.
that sounds promising. does Mariott offer out-room massages late at night provided by LMTs?
Hagerty gave 2 different massages back to back. 1st: 90 minutes, 2nd: 75 minutes.
she was ordered at 10:30 pm and had to wait until 11 pm until "Mr. Stone" was ready. the Portland Lucia had back biting concierges. some girls acted like groupies. (listen to her audio statement.)
Hagerty had worked hard on gain a reputation in highclass hotels in Portland. she superseded the younger massage therapists by far in credentials. in one occasion she worked as a double with another massage therapist who was dressed improperly sexy.
she was not willing to confide with the front desk what had happened to her with client Gore.
she reports one or two other occasions where she had to deal with clients in hotels who expected sexual favors.
a super-rich client mentioned "sex" 17 times during the session. he gave up when she declared to him, "I am a good girl."
Gore didn't take her repeated NOs for a NO. he took resistance as an invitation.
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Relax & Rejuvenate said:I can't speak for all Marriotts, but we take our last appt at 9PM at any hotels. Anything after that is on a volunteer basis only, subject to an additional fee.
that kind of handling makes perfect sense to me, R&R.
i can only hope that the Lucia will act on what has come to the open via Hagerty - nearly 4 years past the undisclosed? crime.
the ones in charge must know by now -- as they are to hand out the films of the surveillance cameras from that day. Hagerty told the NE about video proof that supports her claim.
In years prior, before we worked under exclusive contracts with our hotel partners and marketed to and through the concierge network, we found the higher rated the hotels and the later the appts, the higher likelihood of bad behavior from clients. Something about paying $500 a night for a hotel room seems to lead some folks to think they can act as they please!
saying so you actually confirm Molly Hagerty's experience and statements.
she didn't have unwanted sexual innuendos or contacts with "lesser" clients.
Perhaps not coincidentally, we started an exclusive service contract with the Hotel Lucia in early 2007. lasted about 4 months -- they had to buy us out because the staff refused to play along and liked doing things their way.
then you are familiar with the Portland hotel, the site of the poorly prosecuted crime from day 1.
in Jan 2007, the Hagerty-Gore case was closed because the LMT did not cooperate with the detectives and remained in the hiding.
how about supporting Hagerty's claim as a colleague and confirming to the press that the staff of Lucia hotel
chose to return to a fairly improper handling mode in respect to dealing out massage sessions for VIPs?
the ABMP suggests exactly that - writing letters of clarification to the press. they will be highly appreciated in this case.
http://www.abmp.com/news/abmp-speaks-out-on-behalf-of-massage-thera...
when you however fear for your reputation among concierges you will rather not inform the press.
I am fairly troubled by the various posts here chastising the MT for violating client confidentiality.
Please! A) if she thinks a crime was committed, she has every right and, some would argue, responsibility for reporting it.
fully agreed. Whoopy Goldberg insisted on getting the crime reported immediately. she is a VIP herself. and who would
dare to attack her? to step up to one's civil responsibility in case of a super class VIP offender who was "left alone" by the police, the prosecutors, and the media, requires a lot of courage and stamina. and support.
Police reports are public records, which is how the media got a hold of this story. She did nothing wrong.
The Portland newspaper didn't dare to go against Gore's armada of lawyers - in 2007. in 2009 nobody printed anything.
only after the news on Gore's divorce was out.
B) There are hundreds of MTs who list their celebrity clients on their websites, many who put if front and center as part of their identity. Where is the hue and cry over their shameful behavior?
it's only improper when the LMT advertises without the consent of their VIP clients.
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I am not going to say whether a crime was committed or not, nor will I assert that she did not have such problems with "lesser" clients. I am inclined to believe this to be the case.
I said the likelihood of bad behavior is directly proportional to the hotel status -- not the client's status.
We also work under a different relationship -- our services are promoted and marketed by the hotel under THEIR name and often the guests don't realize our employees and contractors are not hotel employees. You hardly ever hear about guests being jerks with the housekeeper or room-service waitress, so consequently we have weeded out many potential jerks.
We also require all contractors and employees to report any "drunk and disorderly" behavior at the time of the incident. We also have it in our contracts that we have to report this to the hotel. For everyone's protection.
the interesting twist that has yet to emerge is the hotel's responsibility/liability in this. The Hotel contracted the MT, not Mr. Gore. They put her in harms way, it could be argued. One of the reason's Marriott banned in-room massage is they wanted to avoid the liability of having their employees being the ones contracting MTs who might be harmed or cause harm while on property.
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Steve Kreger said:
I am more disappointed in the therapist than I am in Al Gore. If, during the process of receiving THERAPY, Mr. Gore had released a deep secret or emotion about his childhood or marriage, would she then have blurted that information to the media?
i doubt it, Steve. it took Ms. Hagerty more than 2 years of focusing and therapy to be able to report the crime to the police, reading a written statement. she doesn't offer services in hotels anymore. she lost trust in customers and in hotel staff. the police did not investigate the case, did not inform the higher-ups, did not inform the prosecutor. now the new Portland chief of police Mr. Reese admits procedural mistakes. in 2007 a newpaper found out about the allegations and did not report on them after having checked with Gore's lawyers. in 2010 - after the news of Gore's divorce came out - the police released again to the press that they had sexual assault allegations against Gore which were closed.
Our PROFESSION, at it's core, invokes a trust that is no less sacred than attorney/client or doctor/patient. In my opinion, this "therapist" violated that trust, was self serving and opportunistic, and did more to damage our profession ...
healers bear a high responsibility, indeed. the Gore-Hagerty case is about a crime. to cover up (or else to suck up) a crime is deemed uncivil. when the crime is committed by a VIP and one fears character assassination and stress it is deemed a cowardly act. to hide behind the confidentiality is a trick in cases of crime.
when a murderer confesses to a pastor that he had committed murder he may remain scot-free by virtue of the vow of silence of his confessor. LMTs are not under a vow of silence, esp. not when it comes to a crime which is committed routinely. so at least was the immediate impression of the "victim".
what if the police checks Gore's trail of hotels and finds out the identity of other LMTs who were ordered for late night in-room massages and questions them regarding the behavior of their client. those who had a violent encounter with Gore and have not spoken up so far might choose to go into hiding behind the code of confidentiality. in case of murder there is no confidentiality. rape or attempted rape is not seen as a capital crime. however, rape is murder of the soul.
best regards
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Permalink Reply by La Shonda Petty on
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I’ve watched your posted link to “The View”. I am disappointed that the panel obviously got off track of the main topic and chose to lead their audience to view massage in an unprofessional manner, based on personal feelings and lack of therapeutic massage knowledge. The therapist and the client have the responsibility to maintain self respect. To avoid misunderstanding, watch how you present yourself and learning to address such issues in a manner that keeps you in control as a professional.
In my personal opinion, I feel that it is very important and effective to educate the unknowing public about our health care profession every time such moments present themselves. Having a higher level of ethics & professionalism about your practice, then what is accepted by the media and average person, will assist in the continuing efforts of all those representing therapeutic massage in the positive.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Kreger on
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After doing some reflecting on this subject, I may have been too harsh with the therapist in this situation. Even as a male therapist, I have been in this situation and it is not comfortable to deal with. I maintain my position that I DID deal with my personal situation in a professional manner. First advance, the correct response is NO. Second advance, response is GOODBYE! As Ms. Goldberg stated, inappropriate is wrong. It doesn't matter who is doing it. I do not want to minimize this situation, but let's get real here. This wasn't her first visit to a hotel, she isn't 10 years old and naive. I would be verrry surprised if this was the first time she had had to deal with this situation. Maybe someday the oldest profession will finally be separated from the oldest therapy in the public's mind. In the mean time, If you act like you own the world, the world will believe you own it. Act professional, BE professional. Don't take any crap and handle all situations in a professional manner.
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I used to be as adamant in you in this regard, Steve. And as a male half of the business ownership, I was always wondering if my chromosomes were getting in the way of things.
We tell our therapists "Leave. Call us, we will call hotel security to collect your things" Yet nearly every time we have a report of inappropriate behavior, and they do happen about 1 in 1/1000 nationwide, it is reported after the fact, with the appointment lasting its full duration. This baffled me.
Its not about the money -- we pay our therapists in full and charge the boor in full as well -- its not about us thinking your not a good employee or are hard to work with - no one deserves to deal with such BS.
Between worrying about possibly misunderstanding the client's intentions (maybe not applicable to the crazed sex poodle), taking a live-and-let-live attitude/avoiding confrontation, and the never-to-be-understood-by-me issues of female insecurity, too many of these creeps are not put in the place at the time of their offense. That may not be how you or I would handle it, but having dealt with a dozen or so incidents a year from the past 10 years (much more in the early days when we worked just through the concierge who had no problem omitting the guest request for a young or blonde or Asian or whatever red-flag issue when calling us), that is not how the majority of female MTs have handled inappropriate conduct.
But there is also the intimidation factor. Especially for a self-employee MT. Over the years, we have had clients ask our MTs out (against our policy), and one was foolish enough to ignore our rules. After dinner, he put the moves on her and she walked on him. Next day, he, a hotel VIP frequent guest, told every staff member what a horrible MT she was and that he would never come back to the hotel so long as she was one of the MTs (he did not know she worked for us). This is precisely why we have this rule -- aside from the generally accepted industry ethics reasons -- we don't want your love life interfering with our business.
The MT in question in the Gore case might have feared retribution. Gore might have told the hotel she was awful and put the moves on HIM -- who is the fawning staff going to believe? Without an employer to back her up - assuming she would have followed our other rule of reporting such incidents to US immediately - they would probably cut her loose to avoid any future issues. Plenty of other MTs out there to deal with...
Steve Kreger said:After I do not want to minimize this situation, but let's get real here. This wasn't her first visit to a hotel, she isn't 10 years old and naive. I would be verrry surprised if this was the first time she had had to deal with this situation. Maybe someday the oldest profession will finally be separated from the oldest therapy in the public's mind. In the mean time, If you act like you own the world, the world will believe you own it. Act professional, BE professional. Don't take any crap and handle all situations in a professional manner.
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Permalink Reply by Elfriede on
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Steve Kreger said:
You were, Steve. R&R confirms so as well.I may have been too harsh with the therapist in this situation. Even as a male therapist, I have been in this situation and it is not comfortable to deal with.
if you take the time to listen to Molly Hagerty's 2 hr audio statement you will get the gist of it.
it took Hagerty a while to learn to listen to her intuition. Red Riding Hood has not done so. Many women following her archetype as well. Now, Hagerty has learned her lesson and intends to act on her intuition instead of bowing to big names "entitled" to "the royal treatment":
MH: "i will never go in a room without shaking the hands, looking into the eyes of my client."
I maintain my position that I DID deal with my personal situation in a professional manner. First advance, the correct response is NO. Second advance, response is GOODBYE!
i agree. that is theory. you learn the practice solidly when you have survived several assaults and built a strong character. and you are financially independent.
This wasn't her first visit to a hotel, she isn't 10 years old and naive.
she had 2 or 3 queer encounters when she worked in hotels. the concierge of the Lucia in Portland knew her as a non-flirtatious business mannered "grandma" LMT. and had made an unclear all inclusive package deal with Gore's people. and they do not have the standards that you have established by now. they refused to adopt them and retreated to graft business.
I would be verrry surprised if this was the first time she had had to deal with this situation.
the first time with a caliber like Gore. in other cases which she describes the super-rich guy recognized "Ah, you are a good girl. i respect that" and got off the table. no, she was not street-savvy as how to deal with a larger than life VIP showing mood swings and multiple personalities.
Maybe someday the oldest profession will finally be separated from the oldest therapy in the public's mind.
and you can contribute to that the more you study the intricacies of sexual abuse and domination and shame.
it's your kind of attitude that keeps it in place.
Don't take any crap and handle all situations in a professional manner.
that works in ordinary cases with mature people. it's a stretch to transfer that to extraordinary cases.
fyi
Police tapes Jan 2009 - Hagerty audio interview with Sexual Assault Detail Advocacy Program (ttl 2+ hrs):
Portland massage therapist accuses Al Gore of groping her
Published: Friday, June 25, 2010
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/police_release...
Hagerty quoted on Gore's routine
Part 2, 4:12 — “It was very clear to me that I was not the first woman he had sexually assaulted.”
Part 3, 0:00 — “I know I’m not the first woman to be assaulted by him. My guts told me that when I was struggling with him.”
Hagerty quoted on her motives
Part 2, 30:44 — "I was not interested in making money of this case. ... I don't want to bought off into silence.
I only want justice. And for this man to be stopped in what he is doing which should have been done a
long time ago."
your and Whoopi Goldberg's arguments combined with the view of experts (see below article) make it so hard for people like Hagerty
to regain their dignity and the dignity of all women (of her profession). i am glad that Hagerty rose to the occasion after years.
http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=127793337373... Case against Gore a tough one to winVeteran lawyers say woman’s story, true or not, would face big hurdles in courtBy Steve LawThe Portland Tribune, Jul 1, 2010
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