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What are the implications??? or I don't understand?
I had a new client today. She told me that her right shoulder always hurts...She had surgery on it last year, but it still hurts, and that nothing changed sense the surgery. I said well where does it hurt.. She said they operated on the front of her shoulder but she always felt it was coming from the back of her shoulder... I palpated her infraspinatus and she had a huge nocioceptive response..she jumped and let out a loud OUCH...I asked her if she had any type of therapy prior to the surgery last year... She said that she had four and a half months of chiropractic and massage with no results..same pain..nothing changed... I asked her if any of the massage therapists or the chiropractor that worked on her ever touched her there... She said NO. I asked her if the Medical doctor touched her there..She said No. I asked her if after the surgery if she had any physical therapy..She said yes...I asked her if the physical therapist ever touched her on that spot...She said yes. I asked her if she jumped and screamed like she did when I touched that spot..She said yes. I said what did he do about it... She said he just gave her exercises to do. I released that infraspinatus trigger point in 30 seconds.. On firm re palpation it wasnt there any more...she didnt jump or flinch.. She said I feel no pain. Its gone. I will see her again next week. But its gone.
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Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on
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I think there is enough data out there..my opinion... Its something else.. Its like she complained of some kind of pain in her shoulder right??...So all I did was look around her shoulder for sore spots... .Usually within a foot away from where they are complaining you will find a sore spot..Not very complicated .. I dont need to think very much.... I checked the infraspinatus first.. I seem to find trigger points there often in shoulder complains with the diagnosis of rotator cuff. I dont even worry about pain patterns so much...Im checking the whole body out anyway....What I do is really simple.. When it comes to that kind of massage.. I think Massage Therapists should be dominating that part of the health care industry... We dont need university training and all this complicated stuff to be highly effective for most peoples aches n pains, once any underlying pathology is ruled out... Just my opinion.. Its what I think.. Maybe in the future I will think differently. But I kind of doubt it..
Teena Johnson said:Gosh- I think we have a choir!
This is why we need to make ourselves better at record keeping, research AND get confident enough in our data that we PUBLISH articles about our work.
Good Job!
You are right about the anger--- get it under control and put the passion to good use.
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The above client came in today for a fifteen minute session.. She kept her clothes on... She told me she could put her bra on and blouse on and comb her hair for the first time in a year without pain..However she said she still felt what she described as deep pain in the joint... Anyway I found three milder TPs again on the infraspinatus and released those...and found a new one that I'd missed the first time, on her Acromion process. When I pressed on it, that was the deep pain she felt...I was able to eliminate that too.. She was very happy and will come in again two days later for another 15 minute session...She is going to be fine....its over.
Gordon J. Wallis said:Ok it happened again... Im really angry...I thought I might wait a few days before I typed this...but Im tired of it...Its pretty much a normal occurrence....It was only only a few weeks ago that I wrote this origianal post...Now it happened again...I had a client today that has been diagnosed with a rotator cuff injury. She told me that they are talking about surgery.. She has been going to physical therapy twice a week for six months.. ok.. She told me that she still hurts, and she is going to have to talk to the docs about surgery. One of her friends said you have go to see Gordon.. She heard that four months ago.. But continued to go to physical therapy. Her husband made her stop a month ago because it wasnt getting better...Well she saw me today...She told me that when she lifts her arm, it hurts like hell..So I immediately palpated her infraspinatus, on the shoulder blade, and found Two Huge trigger points.. Of course no one touched her there? I dont know what kind of exam those idiots did... But I would love to read it...It would be pure Bull poop. In five minutes her rotator cuff injury was gone.. GONE.. NO MORE... FIVE MINUTES..GONE. She had six months twice a week of physical therapy billed to the insurance company.!!!!.. Two infraspinatus trigger points.!!.. She was extatic...she couldnt believe it... It was like a dream for her. She was raving all the way out of the spa... She told me she is the happiest women in Alaska.. She was freaked out....I didnt do very much to make her happy...I have fancy release techniques, but if anyone would of just rubbed those sore spots.. They would of had dramatic results....There is no excuse for that incompetence.. NONE.. What kind of exam could they have possibly done?? I found her problem in freakin in seconds , before she even got on the table.. Look in any trigger point book or keinisiology book as to what muscles are involved if someone cant lift their arm(abduct). And I just checked where she told me she was sore...This is what pisses me off.. Massage therapists are educated and looked at as third tier providers..Like a freakin hot pack in the Conner of some clinic... Those people she saw are not ever qualified to work with me..thats why I work in a spa.. They arnt good enough...The thing is.. Its not my skill level thats amazing....its their incompetence thats amazing...That was so simple..SIMPLE... Massage therapists should be trained to dominate this whole chiropractic and Pt industry.Instead we are trained to grovel to work for them????..Think about it... Six months twice a week.. compared to freakin seconds.!!.. Think of the cost and suffering and stress she went through...She thinks Im Jesus..You should of seen how happy this women was... When she came out of the room.. She said I cant believe this is true...But i dont feel any pain... I cant believe this is true.. She was shocked... So was I, yet again for the millionth time... She rescheduled to see me for 15 min.session three days from now for a follow up...but its over. Six months twice a week !!!!! WTF??? If I cant help someone dramatically withing four sessions...I tell them anyone can enjoy a good massage..But Im not going to be specific for your problem.. Im honest... If I fail.. I fail FAST... Im not ripping anyone off... I told another client today that had pain in her back after seeing her two time that.I couldnt help her...She told me that she really respects my honesty..and that other health care providers had her coming in three times a week for months before she stopped seeing them.. She said because Im the only one that talked to her honestly...she is going to see me as a regular client at least once a month..And she scheduled to see me next week.. We need a new organization to take over this common ache an pain industry.. Right now its full of incompetence and con artists....Thats the truth. I should of waited to type this after my anger dissipated.Maybe I would state things more calmly.. I cant imagine working for any of those clinics...Id rather shovel poop to the moon. There is NO EXCUSE..
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Permalink Reply by Kathy Mackay on
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I totally understand your anger Gordon. I can't begin to describe how many clients have come in over the years after seeing doctors, surgeons, chiropractors and PT's still in pain. It has happened so often that I'm no longer amazed when they tell me about where their pain is and that no one up to that point has ever palpated the sore area. It is unconscionable to me that a person can be treated by a doctor or surgeon who never touches them. How can that possibly work?? Especially for soft tissue pain?
I now have a very loyal following of clients who come see me first to see if I can fix their pains. It is obvious that what I do works immediately or not -- there's not weeks and weeks of wondering or uncertainty.
This is why I have no interest in being part of the current healthcare system. It is corrupt. I do what I do, people pay me for the session and we all live happier lives. No insurance filing. No doctor, Chiro or PT telling me what to work, or how to work or how often a person should come in for the work.
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Hi Kathy. It happened again today... Those guys are so intellectual.. They cant see the forest because there is a tree in front of them...Its almost a daily occurrence... Weekly for sure... Ive done this 30 years now... Unless those PTs, Chiropractors, or MDs do soft tissue work themselves.....They cant come close to a skilled massage person...No way.....Any experienced therapist knows the truth....We should be dominating the ache n pain industry..But whatever..Good for you...Im with you... You know what Im talking about.. That makes me feel good. Its like if you cant help somebody soon...there is no bull pooping around..then they can be referred out to an MD. The reality is..All of those people that go to those others,.would be much better off seeing a skilled therapist first..I have no doubt on that at all.. None. Its amazing.. they never touch the pain... ever....Thanks...I just got home...It felt good to read your reply...At least someone knows the truth.
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Kathy, listen to this.. I had a new client today....She has been seeing Chiropractors for years...She said she has sciatica . Constant low back and hip pain on the left side...It often runs down her leg...She told me she likes massage because it feels so good but she needs to see her chiropractor because her hips go out and on and on with the propaganda that I hear all the time.... I asked her if she ever left his office pain free.. She said, she has a pinched nerve and it never goes away.. I told her that she wont need to see your Chiropractor anymore. She looked at me like ..Yea Right.... After her hour massage.. her so called sciatica was gone...She had two big trigger points on each side of L5..and a big trigger point in her SI joint area and another big TP in her glute.. all on the left side....Thats not sciatica to me....It was trigger pointed muscles...Real sciatica would be nerve pain . I know the difference when I touch someone in a few moments. Apparently few can?? I cant help real nerve pain.. Most of the time...a vast majority of the time , it isn't.. She was stunned, and rescheduled...lol Now she was very overweight and has had this problem for years.. So I suspect that when she comes back to see me for a follow up, some of her pain might return.. But the fact that she was pain free when she left tells me her sciatica will soon be history.... I know my job...if I cant help somebody. I know it and fail fast.....But they can still see me for a good massage..Because no one else is helping them either. So why not get a good massage.
Kathy Mackay said:I totally understand your anger Gordon. I can't begin to describe how many clients have come in over the years after seeing doctors, surgeons, chiropractors and PT's still in pain. It has happened so often that I'm no longer amazed when they tell me about where their pain is and that no one up to that point has ever palpated the sore area. It is unconscionable to me that a person can be treated by a doctor or surgeon who never touches them. How can that possibly work?? Especially for soft tissue pain?
I now have a very loyal following of clients who come see me first to see if I can fix their pains. It is obvious that what I do works immediately or not -- there's not weeks and weeks of wondering or uncertainty.
This is why I have no interest in being part of the current healthcare system. It is corrupt. I do what I do, people pay me for the session and we all live happier lives. No insurance filing. No doctor, Chiro or PT telling me what to work, or how to work or how often a person should come in for the work.
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Yea its amazing..Shocking really...Sometimes I find my self feeling really angry about it..and other times laughing because its so freakin unbelievable. But there it is right in front of us...It continues... I dont think anything will change for a long time..I mean maybe in some science fiction future...its just to huge and convoluted. Any changes they make are within the same system... They need a whole new system in order for Massage Therapists to realize the real potential of their profession..And the schools to start teaching it. Well that's what I think,, Just seems obvious to me. Maybe Im crazy though? They say if you're crazy you dont know it? Is that true? I keep saying, Truth Remains Hidden.,,, hmm.
Kathy Mackay said:I totally understand your anger Gordon. I can't begin to describe how many clients have come in over the years after seeing doctors, surgeons, chiropractors and PT's still in pain. It has happened so often that I'm no longer amazed when they tell me about where their pain is and that no one up to that point has ever palpated the sore area. It is unconscionable to me that a person can be treated by a doctor or surgeon who never touches them. How can that possibly work?? Especially for soft tissue pain?
I now have a very loyal following of clients who come see me first to see if I can fix their pains. It is obvious that what I do works immediately or not -- there's not weeks and weeks of wondering or uncertainty.
This is why I have no interest in being part of the current healthcare system. It is corrupt. I do what I do, people pay me for the session and we all live happier lives. No insurance filing. No doctor, Chiro or PT telling me what to work, or how to work or how often a person should come in for the work.
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Yes. We need a whole new system for MT's to be recognized. There is a great push/need within our profession to attain credibility but from where I sit I believe it is being sought from the wrong group of people -- the medico's, insurance companies and the government -- which to me is a deathknell for our unique ability.
IMHO, the only way to truly change the system is to do so from outside the current norm and NOT rely on recognition from the so-called medical field. We want recognition from the client. The biggest problem we face is that once we are on "the radar" with a proven track record the larger group will most definitely want to control it. There is a great lesson to be learned in the history of what happened to the PT's as well as the chiropractors who sought "equality" with the doctors. The PT's lost their first tier status and ended up under their thumb and the chiro's are still fighting an uphill battle to get hospital rights, insurance coverage and maintain their first tier status.
I see all to often the willingness of many MT's to sell our collective souls to the mainstream medico's all for the right to bill insurance or be recognized. **blech**
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Permalink Reply by Therese Schwartz on
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Kathy, you are so right!!! I really agree with you. I have nothing to add to what you said - you put it very well.
Gordon - I've helped a dozen people with sciatica in the last couple of years. They don't have pain any more. And one of my clients came to me the first time with hip pain she'd had for 4 years. She didn't want to go to a doctor (she's a breast cancer survivor so she knows doctors too well!). It started after having some kids sit in her lap with her legs crossed. I released her TFL and the pain went away. It took 5 minutes! Maybe less...I'm not bragging, just recognizing what we can do for people by eliminating soft tissue problems. I did have one lady I couldn't help; she ended up getting knee surgery but she knew that I did everything I could, including learning some new stuff to try and help her. We aren't perfect, as you say routinely. But we really can do good things for people!
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Well regardless of what kind of practitioner a patient is seeing for their back pain..There should be a very noticeable improvement within a few sessions...We are talking common aches and pains...Thats what most of this stuff is...But you can go to these clinics and nobody ever touches it.. That lady that came in to see me for that massage yesterday had know real idea of what massage could do for her...even though she has had many. Something is wrong right there. A long time ago I accidentally cured a medical doctor of his back pain.. He was a doctor and didnt know what was causing his back pain, he consulted his cohorts and they didnt know either.. I accidentally eliminated his back pain with my simple shiatsu massage. When that happened I knew I was on to something.. But at the time I didnt know what?. But I knew that whatever I did was unknown by the medical community and other health care providers too. .. I started studying, trying to figure out what I did.. Now I can do it on purpose... It seems the other types of providers still don't know? I uploaded an attachment. But these kind of results happen in a surprising amount times now.. Truth remains hidden. Im knida getting tired of talking about it though. I think I will stop.
Kathy Mackay said:Yes. We need a whole new system for MT's to be recognized. There is a great push/need within our profession to attain credibility but from where I sit I believe it is being sought from the wrong group of people -- the medico's, insurance companies and the government -- which to me is a deathknell for our unique ability.
IMHO, the only way to truly change the system is to do so from outside the current norm and NOT rely on recognition from the so-called medical field. We want recognition from the client. The biggest problem we face is that once we are on "the radar" with a proven track record the larger group will most definitely want to control it. There is a great lesson to be learned in the history of what happened to the PT's as well as the chiropractors who sought "equality" with the doctors. The PT's lost their first tier status and ended up under their thumb and the chiro's are still fighting an uphill battle to get hospital rights, insurance coverage and maintain their first tier status.
I see all to often the willingness of many MT's to sell our collective souls to the mainstream medico's all for the right to bill insurance or be recognized. **blech**
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Permalink Reply by Frances Churchill on
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It seems we do our jobs and we amaze ourselves and our clients. Funny that PTs and MDs can't seem to relieve pain the way we do.
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Gordon, that's quite a letter!
I don't know what is going on with the medical community that they can't relieve pain. Others have posted here that they have doctors that refer patients to them for massage; I am hoping that gets to be more widespread. I have one DO here in town who said he'd refer people to me but I was still in school when we talked about it and I never have had a serious conversation with him about it. To be honest, I'm busy enough without referrals from a doctor. My clients refer enough friends and family to me to keep me booked up! :)
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I have several medical doctors as regular clients....They refer their friends, but no patients...But they are like anesthesiologists, and have little patient referral potential... And there are therapists in town that get referrals..But those therapists only take insurance referrals...In the spa where i work... they dont wanna deal with that stuff. And I dont wanna deal with it anymore... Did that for ten years....I prefer my own business or a spa at this point in my career...Im 58.. I plan on teaching when Im 62....But who knows the future? I dont? lol
Therese Schwartz said:Gordon, that's quite a letter!
I don't know what is going on with the medical community that they can't relieve pain. Others have posted here that they have doctors that refer patients to them for massage; I am hoping that gets to be more widespread. I have one DO here in town who said he'd refer people to me but I was still in school when we talked about it and I never have had a serious conversation with him about it. To be honest, I'm busy enough without referrals from a doctor. My clients refer enough friends and family to me to keep me booked up! :)
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