Is massage therapy recognized as an therapeutic /medical procedure???

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Boris Prilutsky on December 11, 2011 at 7:42pm

Hello members.

I just got a reply to my post. I believe that a lot of important points was highlighted in this post. Will appreciate if some of you will help us out to understand about 200 modalities and to offer your thoughts on this subject,

Best wishes.

Boris

• Jonathan  Massage and manual therapy is to me and fir me the most effective healthcare solution. I'm up for a dialogue. Thoughts on that?

Yesterday at 11:17am · · 1

 

Boris Prilutsky

Hi Jonathan. Thanks for post. I agree with your statement, about massage therapy healing power. In my article I did express my views including what steps we should do in order to get recognition. Actually only healthcare practitioners’referrals make clients recognize the fact that massage therapy is an therapeutic procedure. This is nature of this dynamic /recognition in America. 20 years ago when I arrived to America I started working for physical therapy department, and this was a way for me to get recognition and then to move to private practice.MDs and PTs continuing to referring me patients. Please share your thoughts on how in much massive way we can change mine of general public and healthcare professionals in the regards of us being powerful medical/ healing methodology.
Look forward to hear from you.
Best wishes.
Boris

8 hours ago · · 1

 

Jonathan  

Hi Boris. This is a question that I, like you have thought much about. We need marketing money and lots of it. High profile testimonials. Here is the problem though.... We have 200 at least, modalities of massage ranging from reiki and super basic massage through to LMTs that are as knowledgable as any practitioner of manual medicine. I am looking to start or join a coalition of expert LMTs to organize the right info and pass it on to other healthcare providers. It's going to take time. Most important is things like your post here. Explaining to LMTs that they are or can be vital providers of healthcare. Advanced training us VITAL of course. And good teachers. What are your thoughts?

about an hour ago ·

 

Jonathan .Still. The main problem is the number of modalities and the 15-20 maybe more that are medically oriented need to work together to advance massage as a viable treatment. We acknowledge the short term relaxation of basic massage and more basic massage practitioners of massage need to recognize medical massage practitioners strengths as well.

about an hour ago via mobile ·

• ·

Boris Prilutsky Hi Jonathan.
You brought a lot of very important points to discuss. A lot of this issues I am not capable to address, have very little knowledge in it. I mean 200 modalities it sounds very complicated and maybe confusing for general public as well for healthcare practitioners. as a professional, I grew up in environment where was known and recognized, medical including orthopedic massage as well as Pre-event and post event sports massage. Curriculums of all institutions that trained us, where similar and around the same concepts.
The other type of massage that many knew and scientific society accepted was Chinese methodology. If in reality we having at least 200 different massage methodologies ,it make all more complicated. In my old country many medical doctors use to practice medical massage, and when medical massage practitioner for any reason used to contact medical doctor they used to react very fast . Somehow automatically we where recognized and more. Physical therapists used to deal with post stroke rehabilitation, brain and spinal cord injuries ets. At United States is a bit different , in order for general public to recognize us as a healthcare practitioner, clients have to get referrals from MDs,PTs etc. For example, when client is referred by MD, they know that at least 12 to 15 treatments needed to sustain result. In other cases for us is very difficult to convince that for particular condition it is not enough 2or3 treatments. Meantime it was my first reaction / thought to your very informative as well intelligent post. Let me put my thoughts together and I promise to reply, with additional thoughts.
Meantime please post more, and maybe other colleagues will offer some opinions. It is serious situation and we together can make it, and even having 200 modalities. My goodness, never thought that we have so many modalities.
Best wishes.
Boris

 

Permalink Reply by Daniel Cohen on December 11, 2011 at 10:22pm

To make a real difference concentrate on the insurance companies that run the whole thing and get them to allow 10 massages / year for each insured. Prove to them that it will save them money and remove the medical middle men. Allowing just 10 per year to use whenever the person wants allows it to be used as preventive or for injury/illness.

Since this will greatly reduce the need for Physicians/Chiropractors/Acupuncturists/Pharmaceuticals/Surgery you can't expect help from these professions.

As an alternative we should not require referrals. The benefits are there for insurance to provide massage.

Permalink Reply by Boris Prilutsky on December 11, 2011 at 11:56pm

Hi Jonathan.

Your post was a bit  brainstorming but now ,as I promised, with pleasure I  am continuing  discussion with  you. You care about industry/massage therapy and this is obvious. This kind of energy bringing positive changes. Thanks.

In your post you said: Explaining to LMTs that they are or can be vital providers of healthcare. Advanced training is VITAL of course. And good teachers. What are your thoughts?"

It is crucial for practitioner to be competent, confident and to know that she/ he is a provider of the therapeutic  procedure. If some advanced training needed for it????? My personal opinion is no, training yes but some advance no. I'm saying  it, because there is no definition of advance. Back in Soviet Russia, we all including MDs where obligated to take continued education. Interesting enough that this classes had different name then continued education. It was called, I will try to translate exactly: courses for advance  of professional qualification. In other words, schools have to prepare practitioners to good  professional  level, and continued education  program should be an elective classes choice, to advance knowledge , that wasn't covered at school. School curriculums, cannot to cover all, and continued education program is an opportunity for practitioners to advance. As I stated in my article, soon will be available  for free  preview of  my  orthopedic massage /physical therapy aide/chiropractor assistant program . You will be able to see that maybe as a CE  and because with this European methodology many are  not familiar ,it will be advanced training, but very simple. I didn't know that we have 200 different types of massage methodologies, but I am aware that many “new methodologies” and certifications, people creating as we speaking, charging a lot of money, and fueling more confusions, as well dividing us, and  opening to some   the opportunity to feel “superior” to other practitioners.

Have to run, but maybe tomorrow or sometime next week will address :you said” We have 200 at least, modalities of massage ranging from reiki and super basic massage through to LMTs that are as knowledgable as any practitioner of manual medicine.”

Thanks for discussion.

Best wishes.

Boris

Boris Prilutsky said:

Hello members.

I just got a reply to my post. I believe that a lot of important points was highlighted in this post. Will appreciate if some of you will help us out to understand about 200 modalities and to offer your thoughts on this subject,

Best wishes.

Boris

• Jonathan  Massage and manual therapy is to me and fir me the most effective healthcare solution. I'm up for a dialogue. Thoughts on that?

Yesterday at 11:17am · · 1

 

Boris Prilutsky

Hi Jonathan. Thanks for post. I agree with your statement, about massage therapy healing power. In my article I did express my views including what steps we should do in order to get recognition. Actually only healthcare practitioners’referrals make clients recognize the fact that massage therapy is an therapeutic procedure. This is nature of this dynamic /recognition in America. 20 years ago when I arrived to America I started working for physical therapy department, and this was a way for me to get recognition and then to move to private practice.MDs and PTs continuing to referring me patients. Please share your thoughts on how in much massive way we can change mine of general public and healthcare professionals in the regards of us being powerful medical/ healing methodology.
Look forward to hear from you.
Best wishes.
Boris

8 hours ago · · 1

 

Jonathan  

Hi Boris. This is a question that I, like you have thought much about. We need marketing money and lots of it. High profile testimonials. Here is the problem though.... We have 200 at least, modalities of massage ranging from reiki and super basic massage through to LMTs that are as knowledgable as any practitioner of manual medicine. I am looking to start or join a coalition of expert LMTs to organize the right info and pass it on to other healthcare providers. It's going to take time. Most important is things like your post here. Explaining to LMTs that they are or can be vital providers of healthcare. Advanced training us VITAL of course. And good teachers. What are your thoughts?

about an hour ago ·

 

Jonathan .Still. The main problem is the number of modalities and the 15-20 maybe more that are medically oriented need to work together to advance massage as a viable treatment. We acknowledge the short term relaxation of basic massage and more basic massage practitioners of massage need to recognize medical massage practitioners strengths as well.

about an hour ago via mobile ·

• ·

Boris Prilutsky Hi Jonathan.
You brought a lot of very important points to discuss. A lot of this issues I am not capable to address, have very little knowledge in it. I mean 200 modalities it sounds very complicated and maybe confusing for general public as well for healthcare practitioners. as a professional, I grew up in environment where was known and recognized, medical including orthopedic massage as well as Pre-event and post event sports massage. Curriculums of all institutions that trained us, where similar and around the same concepts.
The other type of massage that many knew and scientific society accepted was Chinese methodology. If in reality we having at least 200 different massage methodologies ,it make all more complicated. In my old country many medical doctors use to practice medical massage, and when medical massage practitioner for any reason used to contact medical doctor they used to react very fast . Somehow automatically we where recognized and more. Physical therapists used to deal with post stroke rehabilitation, brain and spinal cord injuries ets. At United States is a bit different , in order for general public to recognize us as a healthcare practitioner, clients have to get referrals from MDs,PTs etc. For example, when client is referred by MD, they know that at least 12 to 15 treatments needed to sustain result. In other cases for us is very difficult to convince that for particular condition it is not enough 2or3 treatments. Meantime it was my first reaction / thought to your very informative as well intelligent post. Let me put my thoughts together and I promise to reply, with additional thoughts.
Meantime please post more, and maybe other colleagues will offer some opinions. It is serious situation and we together can make it, and even having 200 modalities. My goodness, never thought that we have so many modalities.
Best wishes.
Boris

 

Permalink Reply by Boris Prilutsky on December 12, 2011 at 12:16am

 Daniel.even if   it will be a solution 10 treatments per year, do you have it? you said:As an alternative we should not require referrals." What do you  meant calling us alternatives?and why we shouldn't find ways to get referrals?how to concentrate on insurance companies???I mean, what we have to do practically in order to concentrate on the insurance companies?

BTW. Most of healthcare professionals, refusing to work with insurance companies because they do not want to pay, and patience paying cash, and then patients dealing with insurance reimbursements.

In my article I described reality, that many of our colleagues leaving this wonderful fields for good, many cannot sustain themselves financially. If I am wrong in  my assessments then correct me. If I am not wrong about it, let's discuss how we can survive as an industry.Besides our mutual love and respect to massage therapy, there is huge mutual interest to survive, because if massage therapy as professional field will dry out, and will became feels good, relaxing procedure only question of time and it will take us all down.

Best wishes.

Boris

Daniel Cohen said:

To make a real difference concentrate on the insurance companies that run the whole thing and get them to allow 10 massages / year for each insured. Prove to them that it will save them money and remove the medical middle men. Allowing just 10 per year to use whenever the person wants allows it to be used as preventive or for injury/illness.

Since this will greatly reduce the need for Physicians/Chiropractors/Acupuncturists/Pharmaceuticals/Surgery you can't expect help from these professions.

As an alternative we should not require referrals. The benefits are there for insurance to provide massage.

Permalink Reply by Noel Norwick on December 12, 2011 at 4:03pm

As an MBA and massage instructor, I agree with Boris that until medical doctors publicly acknowledge the efficacy of therapeutic massage protocols/techniques, our field will remain one in which over 90% are burned out and quit practice within less than 10 years.

I believe that the question that has yet to be effectively answered is how best to gain such acknowledgement.  History or the public record already shows what approaches have failed:

1.  Create a never ending number of "new" modalities with attendant claims that they are "Advanced" forms of practice.  Our field has yet to develop a generally/legally recognized and unambiguously defined scope of practice for what constitutes the "Basic" or entry level of knowledge and skill.  Until this is done, our field is divided and routinely being beaten up/exploited by rapacious practitioners in better defined/organized healthcare fields.

2.  Dramatically increase the educational requirements/costs of entry into the field & creation of senseless continuing educational class requirements.  The burnout rate shows this has and is failing to significantly improve the financial well-being of massage therapist as well as the public & medical field's perception of massage therapists.   It's worth noting the public and medical mainstream's perceptions of Physical Therapists have not improved since that field in 1993 began an organized process of dramatically increasing educational requirements/costs of entry into the field (to what are now labeled, Doctor of Physical Therapy & Ph.D. in Kinesiology).  It seems strange given their scope of practice, research focus, that PTs are now required to have completed undergraduate college programs in chemistry and physics.

3.  Insurance companies don't control what medical doctors consider medical diagnosis, treatment or prognosis.  At this time, it's my perceptions that for the most part, M.D.'s look to court decisions, government legislation & regulators to make those determinations for them.

I believe that as a field we need to come together in defining what are "basic" and "advanced" forms of massage practice before we can make a legally defensible case that can be presented to the above group as well as promoted/advertised to the general public.  Curious what others think about my perceptions, suggestions regarding what to do and what they think might work.....

Permalink Reply by Boris Prilutsky on December 13, 2011 at 10:55am

Hi Noel.

Thank you very much for post and for agreeing with me. Would be great to get Public acknowledgment by medical doctors and other health practitioners, but in my opinion this is very long process and industry have to survive now. Interesting enough that my article  awake many reactions from my graduates. I mean they  expressed opinions on the subject. One of them  Anthony(this is real name) graduated from my program 15 years ago. Generally speaking, agreed with me that with out massive referrals from health care practitioners, impossible to get recognition. When Dr. referring, patients know that she or he coming for a therapeutic procedure. He disagree with me, that for this matter is necessary to work at physical therapy establishments, as I proposed in my article.

He working as an supervising massage therapist for big spa. 80% of massage clients is referred  by MDs,PTs etc. He personally taking a lot of credit for it, because worked a lot in connecting with medical offices  and educating on medical aspects of stress management massage, and orthopedic massage.BTW. Exactly in the same manner I started 20 years ago at US.:” educating MDs,PTs etc.  on medical aspects of stress management massage, and orthopedic massage.” We I and he both agree, What is crucial in these cases is to deliver results in such a case doctors continued to refer. At my upcoming, orthopedic massage/physical therapy aid/chiropractor assistance video home program, I am sharing my personal clinical experiences of scientifically developed and clinically proven methodology. For some time it will be for free, and I'm hoping that many practitioners will take advantage to study, to deliver results, to talk language that doctors as well general public will understand, and this way to survive and not only to survive but to help people and to make good income.

Thanks for posting.

God bless .

Boris

Noel Norwick said:

As an MBA and massage instructor, I agree with Boris that until medical doctors publicly acknowledge the efficacy of therapeutic massage protocols/techniques, our field will remain one in which over 90% are burned out and quit practice within less than 10 years.

I believe that the question that has yet to be effectively answered is how best to gain such acknowledgement.  History or the public record already shows what approaches have failed:

1.  Create a never ending number of "new" modalities with attendant claims that they are "Advanced" forms of practice.  Our field has yet to develop a generally/legally recognized and unambiguously defined scope of practice for what constitutes the "Basic" or entry level of knowledge and skill.  Until this is done, our field is divided and routinely being beaten up/exploited by rapacious practitioners in better defined/organized healthcare fields.

2.  Dramatically increase the educational requirements/costs of entry into the field & creation of senseless continuing educational class requirements.  The burnout rate shows this has and is failing to significantly improve the financial well-being of massage therapist as well as the public & medical field's perception of massage therapists.   It's worth noting the public and medical mainstream's perceptions of Physical Therapists have not improved since that field in 1993 began an organized process of dramatically increasing educational requirements/costs of entry into the field (to what are now labeled, Doctor of Physical Therapy & Ph.D. in Kinesiology).  It seems strange given their scope of practice, research focus, that PTs are now required to have completed undergraduate college programs in chemistry and physics.

3.  Insurance companies don't control what medical doctors consider medical diagnosis, treatment or prognosis.  At this time, it's my perceptions that for the most part, M.D.'s look to court decisions, government legislation & regulators to make those determinations for them.

I believe that as a field we need to come together in defining what are "basic" and "advanced" forms of massage practice before we can make a legally defensible case that can be presented to the above group as well as promoted/advertised to the general public.  Curious what others think about my perceptions, suggestions regarding what to do and what they think might work.....