Spirituality

Comment

Comment by Nancy Toner Weinberger on June 2, 2011 at 3:27pm

Mike:  "After viewing it, Nancy sent me an invitation to join and posted my original comment. After you view the video you will understand my comment:

Hey Mike, I never saw your video and I didn't post your original comment- have no idea where you got that from!

Comment by Darcy Neibaur on June 1, 2011 at 4:06pm

A Spiritual Awakening can come to us whether or not we are oriented to a particular religious faith. It makes us able to perceive, feel and believe with a conviction wholly new in our experience. A sudden insight may appear as a new approach to a solution of a problem. This awakenig brings with it increased capacity for honesty, unselfishness and love in all areas of daily living. It gives us access to a new source of understanding and strength. We find we have been placed, through our willingness on a new plane of consciousness.

 

When this change takes place, we find we have become channels for carrying the message of Hope to others who are still fruitlessly fighting the enemies that once were ours. We exchange experiences with others offering our services as volunteers and in general taking every opportunity to spread this message of Hope with others who are trying to live as we are and were.

Comment by Las Vegas Massage In Summerlin on June 1, 2011 at 1:56pm

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Client re-scheduled, so I've time to reply  ;)

 

Mike:  Spirituality to me is someone's essence. It is my hope we don't become all about just bones and muscle. That is what is happening in Canada. I don't believe in one concept towards massage. Massage should vary as the clients needs do.

 

Kris:  Sounds good to me.  Well, sort of  ;)  I'd say Spirituality is more learned behavior and belief than an essence, but that's my opinion.  I agree though, it's more than bones and muscle. 

 

I did share my thoughts as asked by Nancy ... should spirituality be kept out of our work. My answer is no.

 

Kris:  Perhaps I missed them.

 

The thread is spirituality. In Canada, it is keeping out modalities using meridians also any use of spirituality in their teachings. Medical massage doesn't use meridians, so it's best? One is being excluded because of the spirituality involved in it's teachings? Are you saying modalities should be separated from their spirituality aspects and taught diferrently?

 

Kris:  Good question.  Perhaps.  You mentioned that Spirituality = essence.  Well, what if my essence is to conduct myself in an inappropriate manner?  Anyone with this essence or that essence can teach massage or should be included in the massage education?   

 

Kris, you asked me why and I sent you to the video to explain why. Then you dismiss it and Raynor and still expect to understand. It is your right.

 

Kris:  Mike, I wanted your opinion and your thoughts, not those of Raynor.

 

Raynor created a message to therapists. I don't see him as an alarmist or as any problem. He is an international instructor, whether you consider him one or not. There are freedoms that could be challenged and he is informing therapists about it. I am glad to see people do not have to wear suits and ties anymore to be accepted and their information spread.

 

Kris:  Here's an interesting point as you mention the word, 'freedom.'  Freedom is peachy and all good, yet where do we draw the line?  Where do we draw the line in the country we live in or in the definition of massage?  If it's all about 'freedom' to do this or that, who sets the rules, or what rules are being set?  Consensus, for what it's worth, makes the world go 'round.  What lack of freedom do other professions have?  A lot, it seems.  Scope of practice will always be a hot topic. 

 

I think it is time for therapists (no matter their physical looks, clothed appearance or backdrop used) to speak up if they want changes or to let others know about things going on in legislation concerning massage around the states. Too many have been quiet for too long. Most hate politics. I understand, but some don't! I encourage all to speak up!

 

Kris:  I encourage others to speak up as well...in a professional manner.  I can talk spirituality or modality or whatever all day long without having to look like I just washed up on the beach.  Perhaps our definitions of 'professional' are different  ;)

 

School is definitely basic training, I have said that since I entered the field. But I hope it never becomes one school.  

Comment by Mike Hinkle on June 1, 2011 at 1:34pm

Spirituality to me is someone's essence. It is my hope we don't become all about just bones and muscle. That is what is happening in Canada. I don't believe in one concept towards massage. Massage should vary as the clients needs do.

I did share my thoughts as asked by Nancy ... should spirituality be kept out of our work. My answer is no.

The thread is spirituality. In Canada, it is keeping out modalities using meridians also any use of spirituality in their teachings. Medical massage doesn't use meridians, so it's best? One is being excluded because of the spirituality involved in it's teachings? Are you saying modalities should be separated from their spirituality aspects and taught diferrently?

Kris, you asked me why and I sent you to the video to explain why. Then you dismiss it and Raynor and still expect to understand. It is your right.

Raynor created a message to therapists. I don't see him as an alarmist or as any problem. He is an international instructor, whether you consider him one or not. There are freedoms that could be challenged and he is informing therapists about it. I am glad to see people do not have to wear suits and ties anymore to be accepted and their information spread.

I think it is time for therapists (no matter their physical looks, clothed appearance or backdrop used) to speak up if they want changes or to let others know about things going on in legislation concerning massage around the states. Too many have been quiet for too long. Most hate politics. I understand, but some don't! I encourage all to speak up!

School is definitely basic training, I have said that since I entered the field. But I hope it never becomes one school.  

Comment by Las Vegas Massage In Summerlin on June 1, 2011 at 12:41pm

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Hi again, Mike!

 

You wrote:

 

"All good questions, Kris. Each could be defined many ways. First thought has to be... do you believe in Chi? That seems to be the "block" between east and west. West does not accept meridians. Do you?"

 

Yes, they are good questions....do you mind answering them?  Particularly, what's Spirituality to you? 

 

I do believe in Chi, or as I practice Shin Shin Toitsu Aikido or 'Ki' Aikido, Ki.  More than that though...I have faith in it (I see belief and faith as different,) and I've used it many times in training.  If you'd like for me to define 'Ki' I can do that in another reply.  Here's the kicker, at least for me, and a point many seem to miss.....

 

I practice Aikido for my own personal development.  What about my clients, or your clients, or what's-his-names clients?  My clients (it's how I've marketed my business) come to me for a physical massage.  Yours or others may come to you for energy work.  This is key due to the fact that when we start wandering off into other therapists business (regardless if it's Spirituality, Chi, Reiki, Medical Massage, etc., etc,.) then it moves away from our own personal experience to heresay.  You may read this last paragraph and say, "Well Kris, that just proves my point."  Sure.  MY point though is not to take an sides, yet explore these different avenues. 

 

But, back to....

 

If you could tackle my above question first, I'd appreciate it.  Next, after you take a stab at Spirituality, let's look at this:  This thread (my perception) is about Spirituality, and now we're linking Chi to Spirituality.  Is this correct?  If one doesn't believe in Chi, then one is not Spiritual?  Chi is an Eastern philosophy term (to me, in the West), so, any good Christian who don't believe or understand Chi are not Spiritual?

 

Yes, this is the 'analytical or Western' mind-set kicking in, wanting a definition.  With that said, if we're going to discuss or debate something, it is analytical thinking and I think it's a good idea to at least have a vague or specific definition of what it is we're talking about  ;)  You are very bright Mike, so could you address the questions above? 

 

Mike:  "You are being dismissive if you just consider Raynor a woo-woo guy sitting half lotus with colorful streamers in the background. No one was trying to be a poster child for anything. Raynor is an international instructor, that has helped thousands. He is warning therapists about the way Canadians are treating certain modalities."

 

Kris:  Yes, I sure am being dismissive, and judgemental to boot  ;)  I've a right to my own opinions as does everyone else.  Here's the thing...this is tough to describe, but I'll take a stab at it.

 

I consider Aikido my Spiritual practice.  Yet here's the thing; I don't put on my Gi and Hakama and sit seiza waiting for my clients at the door to my office.  As well as, I don't see it as professional (we're all trying to be more recognized as an industry as professional, right?) to create a video looking like a throw-back to 1967 as the woo-woo wannabee gooroo.  My opinion, my judgement.  During the last 23 years I've been deeply involved in Buddhism, Shinto, Hinduism, Zen, Christianity, Spirituality, Enlightenment, etc., etc.  Belief systems abound!  Please note I'm not saying any of the above are good or bad.  It just makes me chuckle, from my experience with those I've dealt with in the above mentioned catagories and 'Raynor the International Instructor' seems to fall into this catagory as far as I can see.  Here's the thing:  Many in the realm of what we are discussing that are 'warning' people about something are usually part of the problem, not the solution; second, most (that I know, and believe me, I know a lot of 'm) don't practice what they preach.  Most, Spiritual or not, don't assume responsibility for their own actions; it's always 'someone else' or 'something out there' that we need to be warned about.  Anyone who reads this, including myself, do humanity a favor:  Look in the mirror and BE the change YOU wish to SEE in everyone else.      

 

Mike:  "It sounds like you were shown different modalities in school and allowed to choose which way you wanted to go. Canada does not allow this. And they want the US to follow suit. Raynor is warning that spiritualality is being aggressively removed from all training in Canada. He explained how important it was in the creation of these modalities. The best way would be to listen to him with an open mind and then tell me what you disagree with."

 

Kris:  Once again, define Spirituality.  I'll address this further, below. 

 

Mike:  "After viewing it, Nancy sent me an invitation to join and posted my original comment. After you view the video you will understand my comment: 

"This is a big part of massage. I hope it is not driven from our schools and training programs by western medicine."

 

Here's my take on this, this big concern with massage schools.  Massage schools open the door for therapists, create an opportunity.  We're the ones who have to walk through it.  Massage school, imho, is very basic.  With that said, I'm unsure of the age requirements to attend massage school, but I'm assuming the majority would say, 18 years old.  People at this age or older who attend school already have their belief programs set; including Spirituality.  Do you really believe that a 'Western Massage School mindset' is going to take that out of a student?  I just don't see it.  Again, school is the beginning, leaving the starting blocks, not crossing the finish line.  Ok, enough for now, back to work!

 

Kris   

Comment by Mike Hinkle on June 1, 2011 at 11:31am

All good questions, Kris. Each could be defined many ways. First thought has to be... do you believe in Chi? That seems to be the "block" between east and west. West does not accept meridians. Do you?

 

You are being dismissive if you just consider Raynor a woo-woo guy sitting half lotus with colorful streamers in the background. No one was trying to be a poster child for anything. Raynor is an international instructor, that has helped thousands. He is warning therapists about the way Canadians are treating certain modalities.

 

It sounds like you were shown different modalities in school and allowed to choose which way you wanted to go. Canada does not allow this. And they want the US to follow suit. Raynor is warning that spiritualality is being aggressively removed from all training in Canada. He explained how important it was in the creation of these modalities. The best way would be to listen to him with an open mind and then tell me what you disagree with.

 

After viewing it, Nancy sent me an invitation to join and posted my original comment. After you view the video you will understand my comment: 

"This is a big part of massage. I hope it is not driven from our schools and training programs by western medicine."

Comment by Las Vegas Massage In Summerlin on June 1, 2011 at 8:27am

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Hey Mike!

 

Can you give me a crash course refresher on the mission statement of the MTP again?  As to Canadian Massage, I've no idea what's going on there.  If this is in regards to the video you posted on Facebook, the woo-woo guy sitting half lotus with colorful streamers in the background, uh, I passed on that one, so could you give me a summary of that as well?  If this dude is the 'poster child' for spirituality, then chalk me up to the Western medicine cult. 

 

Also Mike, could you define 'Spirituality' for us based on your own opinions, beliefs, etc., etc? 

 

If we are to say 'Spirituality' is embraced by other cultures, or that western medicine wants nothing to do with it, please define the 'it.'  This is at the very core of the discussion.

 

Here's another point that came to mind in regards to your comments about massage schools and such.  Made me think back to when I was in school which raised an interesting point:  We covered Western medicine and Eastern philosophy and practice such as Reiki and Ayurveda. 

 

Here's the question:  Are we (or anyone here) definining spirituality as anything that's outside the scope of Wester medicine?  Or, are we lumping together Eastern practices (as mentioned above, plus many others) as being 'spiritual,' or, more spiritual than Western medicine?   

 

Thanks!

 

Kris

 

Comment by Mike Hinkle on May 31, 2011 at 5:49pm

Kris you are a member of my Massage Therapy Project. The top subject about Canadian Massage will explain my thoughts exactly.

Western Medicine wants nothing to do with spirituality, while other cultures embrace it.

Comment by Las Vegas Massage In Summerlin on May 31, 2011 at 4:57pm

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Interesting comment, Mike.

 

Do you see 'western medicine' and 'spirituality' as seperate or different?

 

Kris

Comment by Mike Hinkle on May 31, 2011 at 3:39pm

This is a big part of massage. I hope it is not driven from our schools and training programs by western medicine.

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