massage and bodywork professionals
a community of practitioners
I'm sorry, I just don't get research....
I started another blog post on the future of the massage profession and happened to mention research. It turned into a discussion on research. I decided to start a new blog post.
I'm sorry, I just don't get research. I'm not interested in it really even though I do have more of a science background than most massage therapists (AA degree in Biology). I am interested enough that I do keep trying to learn about it but I am just not getting it. The way researchers talk is beyond me. The best thing I can think of is the theories in a book called "Made to Stick" where they talk about a few things like the "Curse of Knowledge" where people know too much and forget that others don't know what they know and how to take info and put it into usable formats so that all understand.
What good will it do to have one or two studies that show promise in one area? All of the research on cancer and we still don't have a cure for it although Candace Pert says she has one but she can't get funding to study it. No one wants the answer. (updated post - actually I think Candace Pert says she has the cure for aids not cancer - my mistake!)
So what if there were 20 or 100 studies done on a topic? Would that prove that it works? No, not really. When I took a research class on cancer with Tracy Walton a few years ago she said to say something like 'research shows promising results in this area".
I am also quite skeptical having a friend in research at a prominent univ. where she manages researchers who are always skewing the results and throwing out data that doesn't fit their hypothesis. It is funded by big drug companies of course and the researchers want to continue to play and have their jobs.
Who is interpreting research for us? Is there someone who is going through research and analyzing it saying things like who did funded the study, what were the results, how good of a study was it etc? I would guess that people reading research could interpret the results the way they want to see them. How is research being used? How will it improve my business or practice? I do mainly injury work but don't feel any need for research. If massage doesn't work within a few weeks or a month, I send people on their way maybe even to another massage therapist. If research says it will work -does that mean my technique and presence will work?
And speaking of research - What I would like to see researched is how many hours of training do we need as a massage therapist? Is massage licensing needed or even working to do anything for the profession? I would love to see research on just using presence and the healing process. How would you measure that?
So I don't really know where I am going with this. I sort of have this interest but bad taste about research. I am going to the conference so I am sure I will be writing about it later!
Julie
I'm sorry, I just don't get research. I'm not interested in it really even though I do have more of a science background than most massage therapists (AA degree in Biology). I am interested enough that I do keep trying to learn about it but I am just not getting it. The way researchers talk is beyond me. The best thing I can think of is the theories in a book called "Made to Stick" where they talk about a few things like the "Curse of Knowledge" where people know too much and forget that others don't know what they know and how to take info and put it into usable formats so that all understand.
What good will it do to have one or two studies that show promise in one area? All of the research on cancer and we still don't have a cure for it although Candace Pert says she has one but she can't get funding to study it. No one wants the answer. (updated post - actually I think Candace Pert says she has the cure for aids not cancer - my mistake!)
So what if there were 20 or 100 studies done on a topic? Would that prove that it works? No, not really. When I took a research class on cancer with Tracy Walton a few years ago she said to say something like 'research shows promising results in this area".
I am also quite skeptical having a friend in research at a prominent univ. where she manages researchers who are always skewing the results and throwing out data that doesn't fit their hypothesis. It is funded by big drug companies of course and the researchers want to continue to play and have their jobs.
Who is interpreting research for us? Is there someone who is going through research and analyzing it saying things like who did funded the study, what were the results, how good of a study was it etc? I would guess that people reading research could interpret the results the way they want to see them. How is research being used? How will it improve my business or practice? I do mainly injury work but don't feel any need for research. If massage doesn't work within a few weeks or a month, I send people on their way maybe even to another massage therapist. If research says it will work -does that mean my technique and presence will work?
And speaking of research - What I would like to see researched is how many hours of training do we need as a massage therapist? Is massage licensing needed or even working to do anything for the profession? I would love to see research on just using presence and the healing process. How would you measure that?
So I don't really know where I am going with this. I sort of have this interest but bad taste about research. I am going to the conference so I am sure I will be writing about it later!
Julie
Views: 174
Comment
-
Comment by Stefanie Adams on April 9, 2010 at 9:50pm
-
I hate to do this, but I'm going to reflect your words back to you. This is the reason I don't post very much. I absolutely hate hearing my own words projected back into my brain for consideration.
Like to hear it? Here it goes!
I must agree with the wee furry woman...
Stop saying you don't 'get' research. Start changing your beliefs about it. Why do you keep repeating here that you don't 'get' research, without suggesting a single solution? Your friend's experience with research being biased is not the only story to tell.
What are you doing to promote understanding about research? I'm writing an article about that. I have passed 2 research classes and have started a project of my own.
What about you?
-
Comment by Vlad on April 8, 2010 at 6:26pm
-
Stephen,
I know it sounds weird, but I'd rather not say. The reason for that is that I don't want people that use it then piling in here saying that "there's not enough research in it" or that I made the wrong decision or that they see results in their practice for it etc.
Some might view the evidenced based question as a sides thing. I don't like sides. I don't like labels either. My philosophy is that everyone is their own side and can make up their minds about it. But if they're like me then when they look at studies, then step back, take a look at what is going on they might start to get a bit jaded.
I'm going to be really, really corny and quote Sagan here.
You'll understand some of the reasoning behind the "built-in error correcting machinery" when you look at the hierarchy of studies evidence wise.
"...science has a built-in, error correcting machinery at it's very heart. Some may consider this an overbroad characterization, but to me every time we exercise self-criticism, every time we test our ideas against the outside world, we are doing science. When we are self-indulgent and uncritical, when we confuse hope and facts, we slide into pseudoscience and superstition"
I've come to the conclusion that there are a substantial number of people that call themselves scientists that are self-indulgent.
But that's just me.
-
Comment by Stephen Jeffrey on April 5, 2010 at 11:36am
-
Hi Vlad
which modality did you feel you should stop ?
-
-
Julie,
It's good that you're going to be writing about it. I think that the more people start writing about research the better. If you are aiming to explain research in a 7th grade level then you have a task on your hands for sure, because you will obviously need to understand it well yourself before doing so and putting things in laymans terms sometimes isn't an easy task - so I'm impressed. If you find that there is already information out there that is good (such as Menards articles, for example) then just redirecting people to it might save you time OR if you were to comment on articles about research already written (not actual research articles in journals, but ones on research literacy), then it might be good too. Also, if you are in the process of learning, maybe writing about the steps you are taking in order to educate yourself might be a good way of getting others to follow. But that's just a thought on getting the ball rolling.
I think one of the reasons why you're not getting people on here saying "I don't get it" is because they don't know where to start and they're intimidated by "the big black cloud of research" and starting get their heads around it. So even if you started saying "OK, let's tackle this...here's what I'm finding", I think it would be great.
Making the cloud more transparent and less scary to people is key, I think.
Vlad, you are passionate about this topic. That's what I noticed. ; - )
Thanks, Susan, I don't know if it's passion, but if it is, there's a reason for it. I'd to go through the process of being aware of my own ignorance, being a bit pissed off at myself, being a bit pissed off about the fact that there's some brainwashing material being pumped into our profession and we're not able to distinguish between the good and the bad and basically wanting everyone to wake up to the fact that we need to wake up.
People looking at articles in magazines that say "Research has shown blah blah blah" need to be aware of the fact that they need to look at what is being cited. They need to ask themselves "is this just a piece of rubbish that is being produced in order to back up something?" When people start to question things like that then there will probably be uncomfortable. I felt uncomfortable dropping a modality. I lost one stream of income generation from that, by the way, so it was really uncomfortable. My business acumen had a bit of a mini-meltdown.
Also, even when abstracts are put in magazines, it's usually not enough. Sometimes someone can look at an abstract and tell quite a bit about it (were there enough numbers in the study, was there a control group, what was the type of study etc), but then you go find the full text and there's something that they left out - it may not have been a double blind study, for example.
Getting the head around the stats is another big major hump for sure. To me it's the biggest hurdle.
It has already been shown that the statistical analysis on some of the research done in massage has a flaw in it. They used within-group analysis in a between-group design. So if it's known that one researcher has done it in more than one study, then awareness that it could happen in other studies by the same researcher is something that people could be paying attention to. (Doc has addressed this problem in one of his articles).
I'm popping this on to this post again in case it got lost in the other posts down yonder. People need to let Kim know what they get confused about. Is it types of studies? Is it a process of breaking all the information down? Is there just too much information? Is it the statistics? Is it understanding the terminology? Is it finding the studies? Is it an ADD problem? (actually I have a bit of ADD, so when I look at a 10 page doc and say "Aw crap..." I have to just take it 3 or 4 pages at a time and go back to it.). Is it looking at the PhD after someones name and just being intimidated and not realizing that PhD stands for Permanent head Damage? We gotta let her know........
Also, Julie, you could help Kim by trying to get her feedback from your blog. THAT would be cool.
-
Comment by Christopher A. Moyer on April 4, 2010 at 11:02am
-
A note about writing at 7th grade level, or whatever level - a distinction needs to be made between language and content. It is often (not always) a good idea to use language that can be understood by middle school students even when writing about complex topics such as medical research, politics, and so on. Using prose that middle school students could read ensures that the writing will be clear and widely accessible. It does not mean that the content must be for 7th graders.
For example, seventh graders do not know much of the physics involved in building and running a nuclear reactor (at least I assume the don't), but if you were writing a newspaper story that describes how nuclear reactors are built and run, it would be advisable to use as much plain language as possible.
-
Comment by Julie Onofrio on April 4, 2010 at 10:16am
-
Vlad - Oh I don't think you were anything but inquisitive and curious to know more. I like a good discussion. I have actually been thinking about all this too and trying to figure out how to get more people interested in research - myself included! It is a love/hate thing for me right now. I would love to be able to have more material for doctors. I can't tell you the number of people I have worked on successfully that doctors wanted to do surgery on and now they are fine.
I also think because I write online where I gear my writing towards a 7th grade level because the attention span is so short, I have come to expect less intense reading. I actually went to a State board meeting last year where they were working to convert documents into a 7th grade reading level so everyone could understand it all easily.
I had started this thread hoping to get more who would say that they aren't getting it either but it seems to have gotten only people who do which is interesting to!
Julie
-
Comment by Susan G. Salvo on April 4, 2010 at 10:04am
-
Vlad, you are passionate about this topic. That's what I noticed. ; - )
-
-
I'm going to apologize for my snippiness in earlier posts, but I want to explain more on why that happened.
I don't want anyone to think "this is above my head".
Everything requires baby steps when it's new and that includes getting our heads around terminology.
Since I started looking at research and thought "this is cool s***", I've been trying to get people to start looking at it. But my efforts haven't exactly been very fruitful. I've mentioned Menards book quite a few times on this site, I should be asking her to buy me a drink. I had a thread ages ago in which I wanted people to ask questions of the researchers, but that didn't spark much either.
I've also been trying to dirct people to the MTF site because there is a LOT of information on there that can help people on the road to understanding the basics.
For example, this document covers a lot of the basics in a very easy to read format.
Menards articles are also good.
If someone took time out to spend a half day reading the info on the MTF site alone, they'd be well on the way.
So when someone comes on to the site and says they don't understand Thompsons' article, then it kind if set me off because everyone should be able to understand it if they read a little about it.
I understand that someone looking at an article might be puf off by terminology and stats. But if they took time out just to understand the basics and they "get" 65% of what is in that article, they are still 65% better off than if they do nothing. I just didn't want people thinking "if Julie doesn't get it, then there's no way I could ever get it".
Julie - I apologize for being a bitch about it, it's just that sometimes I think I've been banging my head off a wall just trying to get people to pick up a book or go to a site and start educating themselves.
-
-
Yes, looking at research before taking a class is a biggie, not only from the perspective of knowing what's already out there, but people should ask questions during a class about the research for that modality. If the teacher is any good they will welcome questions about it. That's also a question of integrity. If the teachers want to say "to hec with the research" or cover up the fact that research has shown in higher level studies that it doesn't work, then that isn't good. I'd be willing to bet that there will be a substantial number of teachers in that latter category as time goes on. I stress as time goes on before someone comes in and says "but there's still a lot of research to do".
So yeah, basically if you become aware of research and what's going on in there for a particular modality, you're empowering yourself and will probably make better choices in taking classes and you'll feel better about it.
The flipside of the CE provider/research question is that it is my prediction that teachers that are keep on top of what research is telling them and apply it to their protocols (one of the main elements of translational research) is that they will get to be more recognized by informed massage therapists as being good teachers - the best, in fact. And that's also ties in with integrity. The teachers that keep on top of things and apply what research is telling them to what they are teaching have high levels of integrity so long as they don't try to "skew" what studies are saying.
We can link to each other, for sure.
I'm going to be adding to the research site over the next couple of weeks, and I'm gong to start a wee blog on it to show it from the perspective of "here's an MT trying to figure stuff out".
When Kim has her site going it should be promoted all over the place by as many of us that have any sort of online presence. We need more researchers teaching us and I'm excited about hearing about the fact that she is putting one together. She is currently looking for feedback on what people are the most confused about (read her blog post). This is an opportunity to tell the researchers what you need and what people find the most confusing, so everyone should give her feedback. The more feedback she gets, the more she can help us. I think we all should thank her for taking this initiative. It's going to be a major tool in our own empowerment.
-
-
Vlad,
Wow! that's something I hadn't thought of - using research to help make your decision on whether or not to study a type of massage. I am also working on a ce website for massage therapists that is a great piece of info for that! (I'll site you and your site too) and if you want to start getting interest for that site maybe we should talk!
Julie
© 2024 Created by ABMP.
Powered by
You need to be a member of massage and bodywork professionals to add comments!
Join massage and bodywork professionals