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Have Arrogant / Stubborn LMT's Created the Market for Massage Franchises?
First off let me say that I honestly don't personally care what any other Therapist's charge, nor do I concern myself w/ how well or how much business someone else is generating.
I've been in Healthcare now for over 17yrs, and my view towards things tend to be a little different from the avg professional. I believe that any and all therapy no matter the modality should be available to everyone.
I've seen and heard from other LMT's over time that these Massage Franchises are hurting the profession, either by their reduced rates which arent' actually reduced at all, or by the volume of business they do on a daily basis.
I've often wondered when I travel to more rural areas why their local LMT's charge the National Avg w/ regards to basic rates, aren't things in more run down, poorer regions usually cheaper than lets say in the big cities?!
I relocated to a region a few years ago and got hammered by local LMT's for undercutting the local market, well as I told many of them what I charge is no one elses business, I was constantly referred to as the Massage Envy of my region. So I moved again a few months ago to a larger city and it's littered w/ those Massage Envy's so I took a job based on my curiosity to see what all the hub bub was about, and what their Therapists were like.
Folks there is a place and enough business for all of us to charge what ever it is we feel our time is worth.
These Massage Franchises simply came into being all beacuse IMHO, due to LMT"s not marketing themselves well, and not being available. We are in the "I want it and I want it now " era.
Fact is folks these franchises are no cheaper than the National avg, sure they have gimmicks to lure in the client, but it's the lack of availability and in ability to easily find a therapist that has allowed these franchises to flourish.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Julie Onofrio on
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Actually it all depends on why you did undercut everyone else.
I think Laura Allen said it best in her book"
"if other therapist in your area are charging between $40 and $60 per hour and you are only charging $25 or you are charging $90, there ought to be a good explantion for that. If you're on the lower end of that you are either a)serving the poor b) have a low sense of self worth, or c) you're trying to take business away from other therapists by undercutting their prices.
(me paraphrasing because it is too much to type.)
If you are serving the poor then great. If you don' think you are worth it -work on your self esteem. If you are doing it to get clients from other therapists - then "shame on you. That is a shabby tactic left to unscrupulous salesman. Charging a fair price and giving good value for the money is acting with integrity and always a good business practice".
I don't think that is the only reasons ME came along at all. It is more that massage schools are putting out too many MT who can't find jobs and they are also telling MT there are jobs. It is also people who aren't business people and can't figure out how to do it so they are all trying to get jobs now.
If you can live on undercutting everyone else than more power to you. Do you have savings and retirement on that rate (whatever it is?). If you can do more than 20 massages a week at low rates then great. Basically what is it worth for you to be away from your family and spending your time doing massage? What is the value of a massage? What is it worth to get your life back after being in pain for years? That is really how to set your fees.
If you don't have any way to differentiate yourself from others then the only way left is to compete by price. When you don't provide info on the value of massage, people will default to price to differentiate the massage service.
Julie
www.massagepracticebuilder.com
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Permalink Reply by Chance Ryan on
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Ahh the same old MT argument rears it's head when unable to academically justify inflated wages, you attack someone on a personal level.
I ask you then as I have my other MT brohters/sisters do you pay more for your house and everything else in it because the seller deems it to be more valuable than the same items or homes down the street? That's ok I'll answer that for you NO! We all shop and spend our money based on what we can afford, for some odd reasons your argument is the same one MT's has been using for years and it's honestly cost those who refuse to reprice or justify their rates to be passed by.
For any MT that feels this train of thought is egreegious then I challenge you to look around, cause as the medical community begins to open it's arms to our wonderful profession they are the ones that will be setting the worth of our profession, and since I'm from that side of the street I can tell you after seeing therapists being hired in healthcare that they are not paying us anywhere near 50-100 an hr heck you'd be good to clear a day's pay in that, facts are they have justified and most accurately so IMHO along the lines of Medical Assistants with earning potential in the range of 25-35K, a far cry from what some were or are expecting as they entered this field.
Now don't get me wrong I think there is a place for anyone to charge what they want I just think others need to realize we don't owe another person a single thing only our famalies.
Ex. As a former RN my "X" girlfriend was a pharmacist now I used to be so bitter that a newly graduated Pharmacist can earn anywhere from 80-100K a yr, all while RN's at that time were on avg making 40K across the US, when RN's have more direct PT contact and responsibility up there w/ the doctors. I recall my X telling me that at the end of the day the only people we owe anything to is ourselves, our families, and our patients/clients we care for anyone else in the mix really doesn't matter.
My point is it's no one's business what someone else charges, if MT's are so worried about this then they better mobilize cause the medical field is setting your value w/ out your input.
Julie Onofrio said:Actually it all depends on why you did undercut everyone else.
I think Laura Allen said it best in her book"
"if other therapist in your area are charging between $40 and $60 per hour and you are only charging $25 or you are charging $90, there ought to be a good explantion for that. If you're on the lower end of that you are either a)serving the poor b) have a low sense of self worth, or c) you're trying to take business away from other therapists by undercutting their prices.
(me paraphrasing because it is too much to type.)
If you are serving the poor then great. If you don' think you are worth it -work on your self esteem. If you are doing it to get clients from other therapists - then "shame on you. That is a shabby tactic left to unscrupulous salesman. Charging a fair price and giving good value for the money is acting with integrity and always a good business practice".
I don't think that is the only reasons ME came along at all. It is more that massage schools are putting out too many MT who can't find jobs and they are also telling MT there are jobs. It is also people who aren't business people and can't figure out how to do it so they are all trying to get jobs now.
If you can live on undercutting everyone else than more power to you. Do you have savings and retirement on that rate (whatever it is?). If you can do more than 20 massages a week at low rates then great. Basically what is it worth for you to be away from your family and spending your time doing massage? What is the value of a massage? What is it worth to get your life back after being in pain for years? That is really how to set your fees.
If you don't have any way to differentiate yourself from others then the only way left is to compete by price. When you don't provide info on the value of massage, people will default to price to differentiate the massage service.
Julie
www.massagepracticebuilder.com
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How do you feel attacked at a personal level? I didn't mean this to be a personal attack in any way. Just fuel for a discussion. If you have taken it as a personal attack that is maybe what the real issues are.
I didn't say anything about you personally at all. I am just stating some ideas for discussion.
It is interesting that you didn't give your reason for charging so less. I am still curious to why you feel or need to charge less. Yes it is all about your family and being able to take care of them. What is your time worth to be away from them and away from your life to work? Yes it is your own choice to charge less and to also not have to tell anyone what it is or why you are doing so.
Actually yes you do pay more for a house when it is worth more - built better, has a bigger yard, has nicer finishes than the house down the street. That is the thing -every massage therapist has different skills, different training, different amounts of time in the business. Yes we shop around by what we can afford. People will pay only how much they value the work. Value determines price. When your marketing and massage just looks like everyone elses clients can't really tell what value you provide. So people default to the lowest price. It is just how it usually works.
I think you are talking about two different things with getting hired by a medical office. Having a job at a med office and getting paid for doing medical massage are two different things. Jobs are really a fairly new thing. When I started 23 years ago there were NO jobs- 0 . Companies are jumping on the bandwagon taking advantage of MT because they can. MT will take low paying jobs. Higher paying jobs are out tehre. You just have to show the value of your work. MT aren't most likely to do that.
Here in WA we can bill for insurance and the companies do pay a varied rate from $60 -$150 an hour. Yes they are setting the way and that so far doesn't sound too bad but you are right they do set the allowable rate and we have little imput. Some companies reduce the rates and some are increasing them through the years.
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I'm not going to read your entire post, except to answer your first sentence, when someone replies w/ "YOU" statements then that reply is being directed at that person, as you stated in your previous reply that "If your one of those MT's" and using the word if doesn't get someone a bye.
Then yet you attempt again to over step in this response by stating that "I have an issue".
Hey I'm here to throw out ideas, topic, and discuss anything, but when someone tries to emply my topic of discussion must be about me and attempt to put me in some form of box then honestly there is no real way to rationalize w/ that individual over typed words, it's just to time consuming.
Maybe put yourself in the readers shoes and re read your responses to me and maybe just maybe u may see where I'm coming from.
Julie Onofrio said:How do you feel attacked at a personal level? I didn't mean this to be a personal attack in any way. Just fuel for a discussion. If you have taken it as a personal attack that is maybe what the real issues are.
I didn't say anything about you personally at all. I am just stating some ideas for discussion.
It is interesting that you didn't give your reason for charging so less. I am still curious to why you feel or need to charge less. Yes it is all about your family and being able to take care of them. What is your time worth to be away from them and away from your life to work? Yes it is your own choice to charge less and to also not have to tell anyone what it is or why you are doing so.
Actually yes you do pay more for a house when it is worth more - built better, has a bigger yard, has nicer finishes than the house down the street. That is the thing -every massage therapist has different skills, different training, different amounts of time in the business. Yes we shop around by what we can afford. People will pay only how much they value the work. Value determines price. When your marketing and massage just looks like everyone elses clients can't really tell what value you provide. So people default to the lowest price. It is just how it usually works.
I think you are talking about two different things with getting hired by a medical office. Having a job at a med office and getting paid for doing medical massage are two different things. Jobs are really a fairly new thing. When I started 23 years ago there were NO jobs- 0 . Companies are jumping on the bandwagon taking advantage of MT because they can. MT will take low paying jobs. Higher paying jobs are out tehre. You just have to show the value of your work. MT aren't most likely to do that.
Here in WA we can bill for insurance and the companies do pay a varied rate from $60 -$150 an hour. Yes they are setting the way and that so far doesn't sound too bad but you are right they do set the allowable rate and we have little imput. Some companies reduce the rates and some are increasing them through the years.
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I was just quoting Laura Allens book and didn't say it was you or not. I was just putting it out there for discussion. I don't know if it is YOU or not because you won't say why you choose to charge lower than the average MT and I was asking you why you do that.
I just want to know how you are living on lower rates and saving for retirement and taking nice vacations etc and staying physically/mentally and emotionally well to keep doing that.
Julie
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Permalink Reply by Steven Schwartz on
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I live in one of the poorest counties in the country. I was told there wasn't a market for Massage Therapy here because of how small, how poor the community was as well as that the local people do not know the benefits.
I chose my fees to match the other massage therapist in the area. She did not advertise and has since let her license expire (before I started to build my practice here). She was one of the people that told me that there was no market here. ( She only did relaxation massage and I cover a larger market)
I am trying to be accessible to the people who need my services and am finding it to be well received. I market to the local medical community.
Although I have low fees, I do not have self esteem issues - I have 30 years experience and have taught in 3 states. I know what I am doing and am happy with the results I am seeing. I am fortunate to live in an area where the cost of living is lower than other areas and live here because it is a beautiful place to live with wonderful neighbors.
I tell people - Follow your heart - do what you know is right for you - do not compromise on who you are - and be responsible for what you do.
Steven S.
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Having low fees is fine if that is what your going rate is in the area and your cost of living is more reasonable. It is when you undercut your fellow massage therapists that brings up the issues of integrity. Like if the going rate is $65 and you are only charging $30 an hour
Julie
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IMHO integrity has little to nothing to do w/ someones annual salary, and rate scale.
Julie Onofrio said:Having low fees is fine if that is what your going rate is in the area and your cost of living is more reasonable. It is when you undercut your fellow massage therapists that brings up the issues of integrity. Like if the going rate is $65 and you are only charging $30 an hour
Julie
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I think it has everything to do with integrity and that is one of the biggest issues for massage therapist and why they struggle so much to make a living. When I work with MT to help them build their business the first thing I work with them on is integrity - which is doing things like charging for missed or no show appointments and setting their fees to reflect their value (or creating a plan to get them there) or doing things like getting rid of draining clients that don't fit your values but somehow just seemed to have fallen into. It is also getting them to focus on their ideal client.
What is the thing that most people value? Their time and family is a common one. so when people go and spend their time doing massage away from the family and get paid little to do so most will feel in conflict and even resentful. (note I am not saying you because i do not know if that is you or not...because you won't share your secret to being successful in this way.)
The whole thing is that if you are making a great living undercutting everyone else and are healthy and happy, can get a massage a week, have a full retirement account and can take 2-4 weeks of vacation a year as well as have sick pay then I would love to know how you are doing it. I help people build their practices and am always looking for ideas and things that work.
How many massages are you doing a week/month?
Julie
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My private business in Fl was based mostly around healthcare, sure I had a few non medical pt's, but I also had the market cornered as I had an in w/ the medical community as I was one of them and knew the jargon.
I perform no more than 6 sessions a day, I'm available to my clients 24/7, when I'm taking my time I always get people to cover my practice to ensure I never lose business.
What your dying to know is do I undercut, nope, but I've worked for several places that do or have, and what drove me nuts was the MT's that came in undercover if you will to get sessions and began quizing or demading certain strokes from those serving them, then the phone calls on a daily basis. What drove me mad was it's none of my business how you run your business, just like it's none of your business how many sessions I perform in a day/week/month for the purpose of placing me in a financial category to judge me!
I brought this topic here cause of my sincere concern for what I've seen in Fl, NC. Ga, TX, Me, Ct, and IL, so I am wanting to find out w/ my move West if this is just an East Coast thing or other therapists seeing the same thing across the country.
By the way to help you a bit on the math: My Fl business in the first yr cleared 70-80K, that # is a bit inflated as I did have some contracts where I was paid for on call duty where I may or may not work. Every yr after that for next what uhhhhhh 5yrs I did well above that, which required me to bring on several other MT's. I ultimately sold the business to 2 investors, who own several spa's, and massage chains,
Financially I've always been well off in terms of money, so I can't always relate to what it's like to have to worry about a bill, or rent being paid, or medical ins etc.
I'm a sincere honest good man, who only wants to help others, and yes I have an extremely difficult time w/ others that feel what I do has any real impact on what they do. If your giving your business students any good advice it should and only should be to adjust their pay scale and get in good w/ the medical community because ready or not they are eventually going to take control or dictate it all anyway, so might as well as I did get in or on board now, that way they have a nice seat on the way up, and aren't left behind , as is going to happen to oh so many.
In synopsis, my recent experience w/ MT's which is fairly new has been not really that good, most I've met complain about money, about their work, I see so many prey and hope their cleints don't come in, and always want to go home, it reminds me of wait staff in resturants none of them want to work but come pay day they expect or want that money. Everything I do is for a reason, everything.
Julie Onofrio said:I think it has everything to do with integrity and that is one of the biggest issues for massage therapist and why they struggle so much to make a living. When I work with MT to help them build their business the first thing I work with them on is integrity - which is doing things like charging for missed or no show appointments and setting their fees to reflect their value (or creating a plan to get them there) or doing things like getting rid of draining clients that don't fit your values but somehow just seemed to have fallen into. It is also getting them to focus on their ideal client.
What is the thing that most people value? Their time and family is a common one. so when people go and spend their time doing massage away from the family and get paid little to do so most will feel in conflict and even resentful. (note I am not saying you because i do not know if that is you or not...because you won't share your secret to being successful in this way.)
The whole thing is that if you are making a great living undercutting everyone else and are healthy and happy, can get a massage a week, have a full retirement account and can take 2-4 weeks of vacation a year as well as have sick pay then I would love to know how you are doing it. I help people build their practices and am always looking for ideas and things that work.
How many massages are you doing a week/month?
Julie
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No one is wanting to judge you or place you in any category based on your answers. I just am interested in human nature and what works for massage therapists in building their businesses.
Well then your first post is very misleading since you did say you had many calls from mt saying you were undercutting them...and then you went on to say that you were referred to as the ME in the area...very misleading then.
So you didn't offer your services for less then?
so you are only concerned about whether or not people will be calling you and telling that you should charge more? Is that your main worry about moving -whether or not MT will be coming in undercover as you say to see what you are doing and then calling you to tell you to raise your rates?
It seems like there would be bigger issues to be concerned about or interested in.
And as far as getting involved in the medical field. We are here in WA contracted providers already since 2000. I still have a mainly cash business. I don't think the medical field is the answer. Right now we have one company terminating all contracts and being taken over by another company who is not taking any new mt for their list meaning there are going to be a bunch of MT out of business because their business was mainly in dealing with this ins. company ( for state employees). We have no say in any of the matters.
yes I also have seen many that don't want to work which I think is a big part of the problem for the massage profession. It is hard to find good people to work. Just getting mt to show up is half the problem.
Julie
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Permalink Reply by Stefanie Adams on
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"I ask you then as I have my other MT brohters/sisters do you pay more for your house and everything else in it because the seller deems it to be more valuable than the same items or homes down the street? That's ok I'll answer that for you NO! We all shop and spend our money based on what we can afford, for some odd reasons your argument is the same one MT's has been using for years and it's honestly cost those who refuse to reprice or justify their rates to be passed by."
When I bought my house the seller was desperate. He had been transferred to a new job the year before and just couldn't sell. Obviously his price was set too high.
Finally I made an offer which he accepted. A few days before closing he called me personally asking for more money because the deal was $5,000 below his loan payoff. He bought the house at the height of the market, while I bought it during the decline. You can imagine what my response was! I'll summarize below:
"Of course I'll be more than happy to give you $5,000 extra, especially since that's what you think it's worth. You have to consider how valuable your investment and time into this house is. I want you to be able to afford to pay your bills, plan for your future, and take vacations. That would be extremely difficult for you unless I cover your mortgage deficiency."
What do you think about that response? ;-)
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