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Have You Been Negatively Affected by The Corporate Franchise?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Therese Schwartz on
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Oh! So you take public transportation? If that's the case, at least you can use the time to read or sleep!
How did you fare with Hurricane Sandy?
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I can't imagine what that was like. I think it's great that you did the massage-a-thon! Not only was it a great cause to raise money for, but I'm guessing the massages were badly needed.
Great photo! Thanks for sharing!
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Permalink Reply by Relax & Rejuvenate on
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I have an MBA and spent 7 years as a strategy management consultant, very little of which prepared me for running my own business
My wife has her MBA and spent over a dozen years working for the founder of Aveda, and then Estee Lauder Companies, in sales, marketing, distribution and salon/spa development. Surprisingly little of that helped prepare her for owning her own establishment.
owning a business -- let alone more than one -- is not for the faint-hearted.
Therese Schwartz said:R&R, you have a really good head on your shoulders. Do you have a degree in Economics or have you learned "the hard way" what it takes to run a business?
It matters not to me what other MT's are charging. I charge a fair ($50/hour) price for my work, do a good job for my clients and they recommend me to friends and family. If we had an ME here in town, I doubt that would change anything for me.
I have my own business. I worked hard to fund the start-up - buying all of my own equipment, forming an LLC, and developing myself into the kind of MT that people want to go to. Those are the choices I made. It's hard work but I love it!
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Gina, your lack of knowledge of me/us and my/our businesses is only exceeded by inability to piece together a cogent defense of your irrational, emotional reactions to the developments in the industry.
I guess I should not be in this industry
- Therapists are paid approximately 35%!
- They are FORCED to work an 8 hour shift, plus the statuatory meal break, which means they are on the job up to 9 hours a day!
- They are held accountable for achieving retail sales goals each pay period!
- Between appointments have to work the front desk, tidy up the spa, sort and put away laundry, etc
- Neither I nor my wife have any formal training or certificates in massage therapy, skin care or nail care!
Such a horrible, clueless, unqualified-to-be-in-the-massage industry people also
- own their own bricks & mortar location, which is not a franchise and has created 5 jobs (not contract positions, employee positions, averaging over $40k per year)
- lease spas in 3 four-star hotels, 2 in NYC and 1 in SF with more to come, which have created over a 15 employee positions
- offer health insurance to employees working 32 hours a week or more, with 75% of a PPO plan paid by these callous brutes, plus $75 a month contributed to a Health Savings Account which is for the employee to keep even after they leave our employment
- have a 401k plan matching up to 4% of employee contributions
- offer paid vacation after 6 months on the job
- pay employees their full fee on every appointment, regardless of if it is a full price service or deeply discounted Deal Site service or a complimentary service for a key client, member of the media, etc.
- offer paid training to learn new skills, such as MTs become licensed Nail Technicians
- offer CEU reimbursements
- pay 100% of charged tips to employees with no service charges or deductions (a $20 charged tip incurs $3-5 in processing fees and EMPLOYER payroll taxes)
- schedule appointments with an average of 30 minutes between clients
- don't send employees home when it is slow just to save a few bucks on their hourly
- Never pay $0 on a 0 appointment day
- Raised over $50k for the local SPCA this year alone
- Host "Sip 'n Shops" to help clients with their personal charitable efforts, like Juvenile Diabetes Research
Gina A. Liccardo said:Because exploitation is explotation no matter what brush you use to paint it. Seeing as how you are using the term "our spa" I take it you are part of a franchise which is very interesting because your response is basically mind your own business and that is a very defensive response. Why would your franchise underpay, skilled and licensed therapists and why would you underpay and exploit people when you yourself are saying the treatment is much needed. If you want the medal of honor, start with integrity not sweat shops. At the end of the day, it is not a laughing matter, this is a very serious issue and if you have that kind of a callus attitude you shouldn't be in this industry.
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Permalink Reply by Gina A. Liccardo on
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As I have expressed before, I can tell your background, you are not a licensed massage professional. I do know about you, I have a case of stories from LMTs who have worked for your establishments and I know my own personal experience as well with the franchise and the deplorable behavior of your companies.
btw you can read all about how capable your corporate franchises are right here: http://ecorporateoffices.com/MassageEnvy-2906
Should I continue on further about all the sex charges and scandals that happened at Massage Envy?
If I were you, I would do yourself a favor and stop right there because you are dealing with not only a licensed professional but a college educated intelligent woman who is also street smart.
Relax & Rejuvenate said:I have an MBA and spent 7 years as a strategy management consultant, very little of which prepared me for running my own business
My wife has her MBA and spent over a dozen years working for the founder of Aveda, and then Estee Lauder Companies, in sales, marketing, distribution and salon/spa development. Surprisingly little of that helped prepare her for owning her own establishment.
owning a business -- let alone more than one -- is not for the faint-hearted.
Therese Schwartz said:R&R, you have a really good head on your shoulders. Do you have a degree in Economics or have you learned "the hard way" what it takes to run a business?
It matters not to me what other MT's are charging. I charge a fair ($50/hour) price for my work, do a good job for my clients and they recommend me to friends and family. If we had an ME here in town, I doubt that would change anything for me.
I have my own business. I worked hard to fund the start-up - buying all of my own equipment, forming an LLC, and developing myself into the kind of MT that people want to go to. Those are the choices I made. It's hard work but I love it!
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Thank you for making my point, you aren't a professional, you have no idea what you are talking about. You think because you have an MBA that qualifies you to run a business. What do you charge for an hour massage? Why are your therapists your house cleaners? Why are they your sales person? Why are they working a 9 hour shift? DEPLORABLE. What is the name of your establishment?
Relax & Rejuvenate said:Gina, your lack of knowledge of me/us and my/our businesses is only exceeded by inability to piece together a cogent defense of your irrational, emotional reactions to the developments in the industry.
I guess I should not be in this industry
- Therapists are paid approximately 35%!
- They are FORCED to work an 8 hour shift, plus the statuatory meal break, which means they are on the job up to 9 hours a day!
- They are held accountable for achieving retail sales goals each pay period!
- Between appointments have to work the front desk, tidy up the spa, sort and put away laundry, etc
- Neither I nor my wife have any formal training or certificates in massage therapy, skin care or nail care!
Such a horrible, clueless, unqualified-to-be-in-the-massage industry people also
- own their own bricks & mortar location, which is not a franchise and has created 5 jobs (not contract positions, employee positions, averaging over $40k per year)
- lease spas in 3 four-star hotels, 2 in NYC and 1 in SF with more to come, which have created over a 15 employee positions
- offer health insurance to employees working 32 hours a week or more, with 75% of a PPO plan paid by these callous brutes, plus $75 a month contributed to a Health Savings Account which is for the employee to keep even after they leave our employment
- have a 401k plan matching up to 4% of employee contributions
- offer paid vacation after 6 months on the job
- pay employees their full fee on every appointment, regardless of if it is a full price service or deeply discounted Deal Site service or a complimentary service for a key client, member of the media, etc.
- offer paid training to learn new skills, such as MTs become licensed Nail Technicians
- offer CEU reimbursements
- pay 100% of charged tips to employees with no service charges or deductions (a $20 charged tip incurs $3-5 in processing fees and EMPLOYER payroll taxes)
- schedule appointments with an average of 30 minutes between clients
- don't send employees home when it is slow just to save a few bucks on their hourly
- Never pay $0 on a 0 appointment day
- Raised over $50k for the local SPCA this year alone
- Host "Sip 'n Shops" to help clients with their personal charitable efforts, like Juvenile Diabetes Research
Gina A. Liccardo said:Because exploitation is explotation no matter what brush you use to paint it. Seeing as how you are using the term "our spa" I take it you are part of a franchise which is very interesting because your response is basically mind your own business and that is a very defensive response. Why would your franchise underpay, skilled and licensed therapists and why would you underpay and exploit people when you yourself are saying the treatment is much needed. If you want the medal of honor, start with integrity not sweat shops. At the end of the day, it is not a laughing matter, this is a very serious issue and if you have that kind of a callus attitude you shouldn't be in this industry.
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Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on
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Running a business might not be for the faint of hearted. But thats why I pay my employer well. I'm too lazy to do all that stuff myself. And I didn't have to borrow or put down a lot of money to get things started. Another reason I pay my employer well. I also have a beautiful facility to work in. Five thousand dollar tables that go up and down. Exotic water massage rooms and so on. Plus a hard working staff that does laundry and books massages for me. It cost $95 to get a one hour massage from me. I pay my employer $55 for every hour I work. I get to keep $45 plus tips that average $15 an hour. I have six hours work today. Three hours then a one hour break. Then three more hours and I go home. I love where I work. It is hard to run a business.. I don't want to do it...So I pay somebody else to do it for me. I think I pay them good. And I still make a good living. When I hear that therapists are making $12 to $15 an hour it saddens me. I've been a massage therapist for nearly thirty years. Self employed, and an employee. I have never made that small of an income. Even as a student apprentice thirty years ago. Thats my comment. PS- If you have never been a massage therapist, you have no idea how challenging it can be. Its the most rewarding of careers. But at times it can be very difficult hard work. And I've been in the Army before. I've also helped many many people other health care professionals that make five to ten times my income, have failed to do... $12 to $15 an hour is an insult to the profession. My opinion.
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You just keep making a bigger ass of yourself with each post
I am a man, not a woman
As for your questions -- you already know the answers -- you just make them up like you did about my gender, what type of establishment we own, etc.
If you spent half as much effort building your own business as you do posting your misguided, incorrect and idiotic postings here, you could hire away those mistreated LMTs from me and Massage Envy and show us all how superior therapist-owned establishments are.
Gina A. Liccardo said:As I have expressed before, I can tell your background, you are not a licensed massage professional. I do know about you, I have a case of stories from LMTs who have worked for your establishments and I know my own personal experience as well with the franchise and the deplorable behavior of your companies.
btw you can read all about how capable your corporate franchises are right here: http://ecorporateoffices.com/MassageEnvy-2906
Should I continue on further about all the sex charges and scandals that happened at Massage Envy?
If I were you, I would do yourself a favor and stop right there because you are dealing with not only a licensed professional but a college educated intelligent woman who is also street smart.
Relax & Rejuvenate said:I have an MBA and spent 7 years as a strategy management consultant, very little of which prepared me for running my own business
My wife has her MBA and spent over a dozen years working for the founder of Aveda, and then Estee Lauder Companies, in sales, marketing, distribution and salon/spa development. Surprisingly little of that helped prepare her for owning her own establishment.
owning a business -- let alone more than one -- is not for the faint-hearted.
Therese Schwartz said:R&R, you have a really good head on your shoulders. Do you have a degree in Economics or have you learned "the hard way" what it takes to run a business?
It matters not to me what other MT's are charging. I charge a fair ($50/hour) price for my work, do a good job for my clients and they recommend me to friends and family. If we had an ME here in town, I doubt that would change anything for me.
I have my own business. I worked hard to fund the start-up - buying all of my own equipment, forming an LLC, and developing myself into the kind of MT that people want to go to. Those are the choices I made. It's hard work but I love it!
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Gina A. Liccardo said:You think because you have an MBA that qualifies you to run a business.
If you bothered to learn to comprehend what you read, you would have understood that very little of what I learned in my MBA program or in 7 years as a corporate tool (I worked for the same firm that hired Mitt Romeny out of HBS -- high praise indeed!) prepared me for running a business. So I am no better qualified than you or Therese or anyone else. However, I do believe my education and experience is what has made me more successful than most.
Gina A. Liccardo said:
What do you charge for an hour massage?
50 Minutes in one of our NYC spas starts at $125. Why does that matter to you, my employees or anyone else on the planet?
Gina A. Liccardo said:
Why are your therapists your house cleaners?
They aren't. I clean my own house, or hire someone to do it as my MT employees are at least 100 miles away from my home
They are, however, responsible for maintaining their workspace neat and clean, just as it was left to them each day.
Why would you let MTs treat your establishment like a pig sty?
Gina A. Liccardo said:
Why are they your sales person?
How little you know is staggering. They aren't my sales person. They are wellness & relaxation professionals who understand the importance of an at-home care regimen. They also understand that a client who purchases 2 or more products is 4x more likely to return for a follow on treatment, which helps they earn more money by providing more treatments and filling those ghastly long shifts. They also get paid 10% of all sales, which helps they earn more money.
Why aren't you selling more products? Why are you letting clients endure soreness and stiffness in between sessions of your magical touch without providing them with a product like INstant Refreshing Gel or Deep Muscle Super Soak to help them get through a stretch where they might not have the time or $$ to manage another session with your gifted hands? What kind of egotistical monster are you?
Gina A. Liccardo said:
Why are they working a 9 hour shift?
Because most of them would rather have 30 minutes between clients than 5 or 10 minutes. Because most of them understand their careers will be longer if they see 5 clients over the course of 8 working hours than see 5 of them in 5 or 6 hours.
Because if they work a 6 hour shift -- like most therapist-run, benevvolent establishments work under - they will NEVER qualify for health insurance and they are not required to be given a meal break.
Oh, wait...I can SAVE $300 a month on health insurance AND make them work 6 hours straight without a meal break if I take their shift from 8 to 6 hours?!?!?! Gina, you are a chamption exploiter, I am implementing your suggestions right away!~
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I agree. People in the business world have no idea what kind of training education and what our work entails.
Gordon J. Wallis said:Running a business might not be for the faint of hearted. But thats why I pay my employer well. I'm too lazy to do all that stuff myself. And I didn't have to borrow or put down a lot of money to get things started. Another reason I pay my employer well. I also have a beautiful facility to work in. Five thousand dollar tables that go up and down. Exotic water massage rooms and so on. Plus a hard working staff that does laundry and books massages for me. It cost $95 to get a one hour massage from me. I pay my employer $55 for every hour I work. I get to keep $45 plus tips that average $15 an hour. I have six hours work today. Three hours then a one hour break. Then three more hours and I go home. I love where I work. It is hard to run a business.. I don't want to do it...So I pay somebody else to do it for me. I think I pay them good. And I still make a good living. When I hear that therapists are making $12 to $15 an hour it saddens me. I've been a massage therapist for nearly thirty years. Self employed, and an employee. I have never made that small of an income. Even as a student apprentice thirty years ago. Thats my comment. PS- If you have never been a massage therapist, you have no idea how challenging it can be. Its the most rewarding of careers. But at times it can be very difficult hard work. And I've been in the Army before. I've also helped many many people other health care professionals that make five to ten times my income, have failed to do... $12 to $15 an hour is an insult to the profession. My opinion.
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You sound so irrational and emotional. I thought you said that one shouldn't let their emotions come into play. Relax & Rejuvenate said:
You just keep making a bigger ass of yourself with each post
I am a man, not a woman
As for your questions -- you already know the answers -- you just make them up like you did about my gender, what type of establishment we own, etc.
If you spent half as much effort building your own business as you do posting your misguided, incorrect and idiotic postings here, you could hire away those mistreated LMTs from me and Massage Envy and show us all how superior therapist-owned establishments are.
Gina A. Liccardo said:As I have expressed before, I can tell your background, you are not a licensed massage professional. I do know about you, I have a case of stories from LMTs who have worked for your establishments and I know my own personal experience as well with the franchise and the deplorable behavior of your companies.
btw you can read all about how capable your corporate franchises are right here: http://ecorporateoffices.com/MassageEnvy-2906
Should I continue on further about all the sex charges and scandals that happened at Massage Envy?
If I were you, I would do yourself a favor and stop right there because you are dealing with not only a licensed professional but a college educated intelligent woman who is also street smart.
Relax & Rejuvenate said:I have an MBA and spent 7 years as a strategy management consultant, very little of which prepared me for running my own business
My wife has her MBA and spent over a dozen years working for the founder of Aveda, and then Estee Lauder Companies, in sales, marketing, distribution and salon/spa development. Surprisingly little of that helped prepare her for owning her own establishment.
owning a business -- let alone more than one -- is not for the faint-hearted.
Therese Schwartz said:R&R, you have a really good head on your shoulders. Do you have a degree in Economics or have you learned "the hard way" what it takes to run a business?
It matters not to me what other MT's are charging. I charge a fair ($50/hour) price for my work, do a good job for my clients and they recommend me to friends and family. If we had an ME here in town, I doubt that would change anything for me.
I have my own business. I worked hard to fund the start-up - buying all of my own equipment, forming an LLC, and developing myself into the kind of MT that people want to go to. Those are the choices I made. It's hard work but I love it!
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Permalink Reply by willows_of_saturn on
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Although I have the feeling that this thread was created primarily as spillage from another thread, and although I have no interest in joining in the animosity displayed here (I can understanding feverishly defending different points of view but I can't comprehend the need to make things personal), I thought I'd comment with my perspective on how to address being able to secure a profitable career as a massage therapist. :)
Also note that I'm just starting out in this and am planning on starting my own business, working for myself. I'm midway through my courses and just yesterday in fact my own table finally arrived at home! (no more practicing at home on my knees next to the bed since the bed is too low for me hehe). But maybe my perspective will help because I've put a lot of thought into how I want to proceed and carve for myself my own practice after my own wants and needs, in accordance, of course, with the nature of the market itself.My first observation is that, regardless of whether or not there are corporate, Wal*Mart style places offering cheap massages (used to manage at Wal*Mart in fact so I'm well versed in that kind of business), one is always going to have to contend with the fact that there will be competition that offers very cheap services. I don't think this is in any way a threat to more professionally-orientated massage therapists who have honed a real craft, who have real skills to offer. When it comes to any business, I believe there is a principle that holds true - price, product, customer service. If you put more of an accent on one of those areas, then you'll subsequently have to compensate by making sacrifices in another area. So you have places like Wal*Mart who decide that the lowest price is the driver of their business, and so you see a moderate to large sacrifice in the quality of the product and a considerably large sacrifice in the quality of the customer service. Yet, when it comes to massage, I have a strong feeling that the people who are driven to places operating on similar business models merely because of the price are customers that never would have been very likely to have spent money elsewhere to begin with if the prices were higher. These people want an affordable, basic massage. If your plan is to compete by offering an affordable, basic massage, of course you'll be outmatched by someone who has already organized a successful business model around this.
But if your intention is to develop a real practice, a real art, then I don't think one's intention would be to try to offer generalized, basic massage anyway. If you are a massage therapist, then your specific objective is to make your own way by your own personal power. This means that you will have cultivated your own personal power, that you will offer a personalized service to others that no one else can really replicate. Someone who has went through the motions of getting licensed to end up working in a "massage farm" in order to get paid, to be presumptuous, has most likely not mastered their own body and their own energy in order to transmit that energy, to transmit something to the client. Then it's just a massage and probably a pretty bland one, maybe a generally relaxing one.
Yet if you have truly cultivated your own craft, then you have something that supports itself because the people who benefit from it will recognize it's value, especially if they have the alternative with which to compare it to - the cheap bland massage. So essentially I guess my basic point is that, if you truly focus on improving the service that you provide by mastering your own body and your own art, then other people will accept paying more because you are providing greater quality.
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