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So, is the wolf pack satisfied?

 

You've driven him off.  The Wolf Pack can celebrate. 

But before you all start shaking each others paws (or doing whatever else - Pulp Fiction fans can smile at The Wolf reference ) there's something that I'll say about that.

 

First off, I'm amazed that he stuck around so long.  In fact, it occured to me today that the arguments against him keep repeating over and over and over, it's a wonder he didn't bail way before now.

To recap the arguments put to him:

1.  Who is he to be an authority?

He repeatedly said he isn't.  Any scientist would say that there is not authority in science.  But apparently some people on here *need* authority figures. 

2.  He is against energy work (and therefore is regarded as the Devil incarnate).

He has an opinion on it, he expressed it, he gave his reasons for his opinion and time and time again he is regarded as the Anti-Christ for having that opinion, which have been formed from what he knows from the data provided by science. Apparently his opinion on it resonated through every thread, even when the threads were initially on a subject that had nothing to do with energy work - he was hounded for it.

3. He is narrow-minded because of his opinion on energy work

This one blows my mind.  He has contributed a lot to massage therapy research (even though some who are obviously not familiar with his work would argue that point) and he has never been thanked for it by anyone on this site (If I'm wrong correct me) This "narrow-minded argument" has been thrown at him when it is blatantly obvious that the ones throwing the argument have made no attempt to understand why he has reached his conclusions.  If there was any attempt to do that, meaningful discussions besides "Science isn't there yet" and the same ol' weak arguments wouldn't have been popping up again and again.  And people not understanding *why* the "science isn't there yet* argument and those other ones are weak is pretty clear.  It amazes me that this total lack of an attempt to understand another person's point of view and why they have reached it can be held by any massage therapist.  I had thought that we were empathetic people and the basis of empathy is understanding.  But apparently I was wrong.

 

4. A new one thrown at him was that science and engineering are not the same.  As an ex-software engineer who has a Masters in Computer Science I can say that before I knew the guy that you've just forced out, I didn't know the difference between external and internal validity and it's importance in the linkage between cause and effect.  After being aware of my ignorance he pointed me towards the right books (both he and Kim Goral did this, who has probably given up on this site too) to get myself a bit more educated.  He gets tackled on some study that was slammed because it didn't reflect the real world and he had mentioned internal validity.  The discussion could have been about that, but no, it didn't reflect what we wanted to see and it didn't tell us what we wanted to hear, he brought up internal validity and that was it - slam him. 

Anyway, back to the engineer/science poke (on which there could be a debate, but who really cares?)  This ex-engineer can state that there's a big difference between unveiling nature and using patterns from nature to build.  The latter is easier.  It's logical and good - it can be replicated, it's easily testable and it's much more easily critiqued.  That's because the human element is taken out.  But that's just an opinion and if anyone tackles me on it, I don't care.  Opinions are like brown orifices - facts and data are quite nice some of the time.

 

I'm sure there are other things that I could bring up here, but there's probably no point.  Those ones are the main ones.  I've learned a lot from him - it's a pity others couldn't see the benefit from him being on here. 

 

Anyway, I'd just like to say that before anyone regards him leaving here as a victory and "Yay for us - we win!", I'd just like to say that yes, it is a victory -  a victory for ignorance, intolerance and a lack of understanding. 

 

Way to go.

 

 

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Laura Allen on May 12, 2011 at 12:06pm

I have begged people to behave on here, to stop the personal attacks and insults, to respect other people's right to believe as they please, and to agree to disagree in a civil fashion, and it just doesn't happen. I will say this: If I were a client looking for a massage therapist to visit, and I saw them participating in all this anger, insulting behavior, and petty childishness on here, there is no way I would let the perpetrators put a hand on me.

Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on May 12, 2011 at 2:48pm
Its like the Democrats and Republicans...Bitter towards each other.. We are all the same, regardless of format or subject.
..
Laura Allen said:

I have begged people to behave on here, to stop the personal attacks and insults, to respect other people's right to believe as they please, and to agree to disagree in a civil fashion, and it just doesn't happen. I will say this: If I were a client looking for a massage therapist to visit, and I saw them participating in all this anger, insulting behavior, and petty childishness on here, there is no way I would let the perpetrators put a hand on me.

Permalink Reply by Gary W Addis, LMT on May 12, 2011 at 3:07pm

SHE was being harassed?  Boris wrote an article; she attacked it and him.  Chris joined in.  I posted my interpretation of the article, pointing out that both Boris and Raven were saying the same thing, only differently...both agreed that by whatever methodology, the body (the mind and body are one, aren't they?) remembers  Boris didn't employ their terminology, though, so in their minds he was wrong.   


Vlad, as for Raven having more important things to do, if she hadn't continued posting about this subject and personally denigrating anyone who had "opposed" her-- getting in, in Laura's words, her little digs-- we wouldn't be having this conversation. 


Vlad said:

 

Why are people still directing posts at Dearie Raven, the cold clinician?  (It's ironic that she was referred to as *cold* I think she's a very warm and caring person since I've met her and I have talked to her quite a bit).  Are people trying to get that last *dig in*?  Sorry guys, she won't respond - she's got better things to do with her time than subject herself to the harassment she got on here.

Gary, just for an FYI, Chris the donkey is quite a bit older than 30.  Not that it would matter since age shouldn't matter.  Ignorance doesn't necessarily decrease with age. 

I hope you all are having a good week!

Vlad (the Denier)

Permalink Reply by Boris Prilutsky on May 12, 2011 at 5:41pm

Hi Ty.

we already agreed that professional discussions is not about to win or  losing but  to exchange information, share knowledge,etc.in such a case everyone wining.and of course this professional discussions shouldn't be confused with unproductive arguments. You blaming that on this site this arguments happens to take place and not first  time. Guess what I spend little time to check a lot of discussions, and yes it took  place and  mostly in all arguments where Christopher and sometime Raven, and Vlad did participate. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Best wishes.

Boris

PS.why didn't you express your peaceful ideas when Vlad have titled this  discussion"

So, is the wolf pack satisfied?"

is that professional??is it nice??



Ty said:

"attack, I will reciprocate"........

Gary- you are not the first one to say this on this site.

 

This is the part I never get.  Rather than taking the high road people go all Old Testament.  An "eye for an eye".  Nobody wins.

Permalink Reply by Boris Prilutsky on May 12, 2011 at 6:08pm

Hi Gary.

the good thing, is that all posts,is a record and you absolutely correct what you have said in this post. In the beginning I have gave a second thought:" what could I do to prevent this escalation to arguments?double checked all posts and can tell you that only option that I had In order to prevent it, is to  quit my discussion.the subject is extremely important and it would be wrong to quit.I really don't understand deep enough English/American slang and if would see that you insulting someone I would honestly tell you that I believe you are insulting. I asked a few friends who understand well English slang as well know language well.after reviewing your statements,what they said to me that  no insult was part of your statements. It was salty but not  insult.

I also double checked that in case if one repeatedly telling that you are wrong, and you asking please advice, offer your opinion what will be right definitions,or where this negative emotions stored?? but your opponent continue and repeatedly, and repeatedly to disrupt important discussion and ignoring your requests, by all means it   dishonest behavior.I also double checked if due to this kind of behavior you called one dishonest this is by all means not insult. If one call other dishonest, but not explaining why she/he called the other dishonest this is insulting. But not otherwise.even being student at massage therapy program my understanding that a lot of years you practicing private training and enough educated to view wrong and right. By all means you did and even that this arguments wasn't pleasant experience I am positive you learn a lot. And this made me feel good.

Best wishes.

Boris


I also asked

 

Gary W Addis said:

SHE was being harassed?  Boris wrote an article; she attacked it and him.  Chris joined in.  I posted my interpretation of the article, pointing out that both Boris and Raven were saying the same thing, only differently...both agreed that by whatever methodology, the body (the mind and body are one, aren't they?) remembers  Boris didn't employ their terminology, though, so in their minds he was wrong.   


Vlad, as for Raven having more important things to do, if she hadn't continued posting about this subject and personally denigrating anyone who had "opposed" her-- getting in, in Laura's words, her little digs-- we wouldn't be having this conversation. 


Vlad said:

 

Why are people still directing posts at Dearie Raven, the cold clinician?  (It's ironic that she was referred to as *cold* I think she's a very warm and caring person since I've met her and I have talked to her quite a bit).  Are people trying to get that last *dig in*?  Sorry guys, she won't respond - she's got better things to do with her time than subject herself to the harassment she got on here.

Gary, just for an FYI, Chris the donkey is quite a bit older than 30.  Not that it would matter since age shouldn't matter.  Ignorance doesn't necessarily decrease with age. 

I hope you all are having a good week!

Vlad (the Denier)

Permalink Reply by Gary W Addis, LMT on May 12, 2011 at 7:44pm

I just now attended Tom Myers and Ben Benjamin's webinar about anatomy trains within the body.  Most bodies are off a bit-- or a lot.  Some people maintain a depressed shoulder, a rotated hip, forward-slanted femurs with a posterior slanted knee.  Restoring posture I see can be an extremely long process, even for highly skilled therapists such as yourself and Raven.  I understand that your advanced knowledge didn't come solely out of a textbook; you learned as you worked to heal hundreds of bodies over the course of your career.  Likewise, Ravensara in her career.  I would eagerly attend classes taught by either of you.  I respect both of you for the expertise you freely share with those eager to learn.

 


Boris Prilutsky said:

Hi Gary.

the good thing, is that all posts,is a record and you absolutely correct what you have said in this post. In the beginning I have gave a second thought:" what could I do to prevent this escalation to arguments?double checked all posts and can tell you that only option that I had In order to prevent it, is to  quit my discussion.the subject is extremely important and it would be wrong to quit.I really don't understand deep enough English/American slang and if would see that you insulting someone I would honestly tell you that I believe you are insulting. I asked a few friends who understand well English slang as well know language well.after reviewing your statements,what they said to me that  no insult was part of your statements. It was salty but not  insult.

I also double checked that in case if one repeatedly telling that you are wrong, and you asking please advice, offer your opinion what will be right definitions,or where this negative emotions stored?? but your opponent continue and repeatedly, and repeatedly to disrupt important discussion and ignoring your requests, by all means it   dishonest behavior.I also double checked if due to this kind of behavior you called one dishonest this is by all means not insult. If one call other dishonest, but not explaining why she/he called the other dishonest this is insulting. But not otherwise.even being student at massage therapy program my understanding that a lot of years you practicing private training and enough educated to view wrong and right. By all means you did and even that this arguments wasn't pleasant experience I am positive you learn a lot. And this made me feel good.

Best wishes.

Boris


I also asked

 

Gary W Addis said:

SHE was being harassed?  Boris wrote an article; she attacked it and him.  Chris joined in.  I posted my interpretation of the article, pointing out that both Boris and Raven were saying the same thing, only differently...both agreed that by whatever methodology, the body (the mind and body are one, aren't they?) remembers  Boris didn't employ their terminology, though, so in their minds he was wrong.   


Vlad, as for Raven having more important things to do, if she hadn't continued posting about this subject and personally denigrating anyone who had "opposed" her-- getting in, in Laura's words, her little digs-- we wouldn't be having this conversation. 


Vlad said:

 

Why are people still directing posts at Dearie Raven, the cold clinician?  (It's ironic that she was referred to as *cold* I think she's a very warm and caring person since I've met her and I have talked to her quite a bit).  Are people trying to get that last *dig in*?  Sorry guys, she won't respond - she's got better things to do with her time than subject herself to the harassment she got on here.

Gary, just for an FYI, Chris the donkey is quite a bit older than 30.  Not that it would matter since age shouldn't matter.  Ignorance doesn't necessarily decrease with age. 

I hope you all are having a good week!

Vlad (the Denier)

Permalink Reply by Boris Prilutsky on May 12, 2011 at 10:28pm

Gary.Thank you for smart and inspirational post.life is short and over proud people are not smart enough. I hope that myself,Raven and Christopher are not over proud . You said:I would eagerly attend classes taught by either of you."I would be delighted to see you at my classes. Thanks again for post.

Best wishes.

Boris

Gary W Addis said:

I just now attended Tom Myers and Ben Benjamin's webinar about anatomy trains within the body.  Most bodies are off a bit-- or a lot.  Some people maintain a depressed shoulder, a rotated hip, forward-slanted femurs with a posterior slanted knee.  Restoring posture I see can be an extremely long process, even for highly skilled therapists such as yourself and Raven.  I understand that your advanced knowledge didn't come solely out of a textbook; you learned as you worked to heal hundreds of bodies over the course of your career.  Likewise, Ravensara in her career.  I would eagerly attend classes taught by either of you.  I respect both of you for the expertise you freely share with those eager to learn.

 


Boris Prilutsky said:

Hi Gary.

the good thing, is that all posts,is a record and you absolutely correct what you have said in this post. In the beginning I have gave a second thought:" what could I do to prevent this escalation to arguments?double checked all posts and can tell you that only option that I had In order to prevent it, is to  quit my discussion.the subject is extremely important and it would be wrong to quit.I really don't understand deep enough English/American slang and if would see that you insulting someone I would honestly tell you that I believe you are insulting. I asked a few friends who understand well English slang as well know language well.after reviewing your statements,what they said to me that  no insult was part of your statements. It was salty but not  insult.

I also double checked that in case if one repeatedly telling that you are wrong, and you asking please advice, offer your opinion what will be right definitions,or where this negative emotions stored?? but your opponent continue and repeatedly, and repeatedly to disrupt important discussion and ignoring your requests, by all means it   dishonest behavior.I also double checked if due to this kind of behavior you called one dishonest this is by all means not insult. If one call other dishonest, but not explaining why she/he called the other dishonest this is insulting. But not otherwise.even being student at massage therapy program my understanding that a lot of years you practicing private training and enough educated to view wrong and right. By all means you did and even that this arguments wasn't pleasant experience I am positive you learn a lot. And this made me feel good.

Best wishes.

Boris


I also asked

 

Gary W Addis said:

SHE was being harassed?  Boris wrote an article; she attacked it and him.  Chris joined in.  I posted my interpretation of the article, pointing out that both Boris and Raven were saying the same thing, only differently...both agreed that by whatever methodology, the body (the mind and body are one, aren't they?) remembers  Boris didn't employ their terminology, though, so in their minds he was wrong.   


Vlad, as for Raven having more important things to do, if she hadn't continued posting about this subject and personally denigrating anyone who had "opposed" her-- getting in, in Laura's words, her little digs-- we wouldn't be having this conversation. 


Vlad said:

 

Why are people still directing posts at Dearie Raven, the cold clinician?  (It's ironic that she was referred to as *cold* I think she's a very warm and caring person since I've met her and I have talked to her quite a bit).  Are people trying to get that last *dig in*?  Sorry guys, she won't respond - she's got better things to do with her time than subject herself to the harassment she got on here.

Gary, just for an FYI, Chris the donkey is quite a bit older than 30.  Not that it would matter since age shouldn't matter.  Ignorance doesn't necessarily decrease with age. 

I hope you all are having a good week!

Vlad (the Denier)

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