Just dumping

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on November 12, 2011 at 3:27pm

Yesterday I had a total of four clients..Three just needed good massages.. My first client, a women in her late fifties told me that she was suffering teribly from sciatica.. And has suffered for years.  Id never seen her before...She booked an 80 min. massage session and told me that she wasn't looking forward to it.. she knew it would be painful, and that she would tell me if  it got too much for her...She told me that in the past, after a gruelingly painful deep tissue massage, she would feel some relief.. I assured her that it would not be painful, and wont take 80 minutes..More like 15 min..She gave me a look of disbelief.. Then I showed her a letter from a doctor that said I cured him of debiltating back pain in one massage session. She saw the date on the letter, 1986.. I told her that Ive refined my skills sense then.. Anyway she had pain in both hips. Right was much worse though, and was sending pain down the back of her leg, almost to her foot.  I found a really sore Trigger point in her right Peraformis. Another not quite as bad trigger point in her left SI joint. and a milder trigger point in her left lower spinal erectors around L5 area.  Thirty seconds on each of the release areas for those trigger points, and that was it...Total time was 20 minutes.. She was freaked out and happy...She rescheduled for a follow up treatment next Saturday.. I suspect ther periformis TP might come back...the perpetuating factor may be because she has pins in her right ankle from an auto accident from years ago..However, it might not come back...But the fact that she was totally pain free after 20 min.  Freaked her out... lol  And the massage didnt hurt her at all...So we will see if it lasts... But at least she knows she can get quick, fast relief now...I will follow up on this after i see her again this coming Saturday.  PS- not sure how to spell periformis? lol  PS again- Now not trying to brag...I cant help everyone, thats for sure.. But her case is interesting..It was relatively easy to help her.. yet she has been suffering for years, even after seeing other doctors and professionals...I dont get it?

Gordon J. Wallis said:

What gets me is... That chiropractor makes ten times the money I make...Think of all the treatment plans he has going?  lol  .. I dont know....Its like an Alice in Wonderland World out there...Truth remains hidden..

Gordon J. Wallis said:

The young man came in for a follow up session...The trigger point was hardly palatable the second time around.  Ran into him the other day..He is completely pain free.  He never followed through with that chiropractors treatment plan.  Wonder how many other patients are being ripped off?  My educated guess is a lot. 

Gordon J. Wallis said:

A couple of days ago.  This young black guy came into see me.. He was healthy and fit looking. He was about 19, and had an athletic look.  He played soccer..  I asked him if he was suffering from any pain.. He said his back is jacked up.. His words.. I said ok. Where do you feel the pain.. He indicated his right rhomboid infaspinatus area.. I asked him if he was seeing anyone else for that problem.. He said yes.. He is seeing another type of health care provider...He has seen been seeing him 3 times a week for a month now. And said they told him he has only two more weeks of treatment left. Six more visits... I asked the young man if it was helping, if he is getting better?..He said NO they haven't found it yet...I asked what kind of therapy they were giving him.. He said adjustments and electrical stem.. I said ok.. Do you want me to give you a really good massage, or do you want that pain out of your body?.. He said I want the pain out of my body.. He had scheduled a 50 minute massage. To make a long story short...All I could find was one really bad right rhomboid trigger point..It had the local twitch responds, and referred pain patterns.. A classic trigger point if there ever was one.. So in a couple minutes.. That was gone.(the trigger point). And so was his jacked up back pain...Sense it only took 25 minutes of his 50 minute massage , I suggested that we stop now.. And he can use the rest of his time on a follow up visit a couple days later.. He said yea that's a good idea.. He left a very happy young man.. He is coming in this afternoon, and I will see how he is doing..But that was it. Just one bad rhomboid trigger point.. He left pain free from a 25 minute massage.  From my perspective, it was an easy problem to find and fix. Interesting huh?

Gordon J. Wallis said:

I have lots of stories,

Lee Edelberg said:

It's inspiring to read this stuff. 

I mean, we're still seeing things in the  media like  "New study shows that massage might help reduce certain types of stress", while the medical/scientific establishment move at a glacial pace towards conclusions that almost anyone working in the field already knows from their daily work.

 

Thanks for your stories.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by kristi marco on November 12, 2011 at 5:39pm

For too long now the over priced has charged the unprepared for tx work that is so long in comming to a conclusion, I think the patient has forgotten what homeostasis actually feels like. There might be something to consider in that statement.

Then we come along with a "title" that has been stereotyped for decades, It doesn't suprize me how tough it is to change the closed mindedness of a sceptic. What better way ,than to show them. I'd like to say that i leave the politics to the polititions however, I'm not always smart.

I know that we as LMP's aren't listed in the entertainment sections in a yellow pages phonebook anymore, but moved to the medical sections respectfully.That was along time in comming. How can they go through medical school and pass a state boards exam, yet be so blind to they own inadiquicies of not wanting to learn from other people

 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Micah Goodman on November 24, 2011 at 11:46pm

I think the biggest reason our health care system is so jacked up is because doctor's are trained to do two things; one, prescribe medication and two cut you open. If you go to almost every major medical school in the country that is what they teach. The benefits of massage have been known in this country for over 100 years but largely ignored. Why? A doctor makes money off of office visits every time you come in to get a new prescription and every time they preform surgery on you. They stop making money off of you if you actually are healed. In the town in which I live a doctor (who lost his medical license for drug abuse) has made a multimillion dollar career of off carpal tunnel operations. Do you think he will ever preach the benefits of massage? Nope.

I mean Dr. Janet Travel pioneered trigger point therapy. She worked on a US President for chronic back pain as a result of a war related injury, has published her experiences that to this day prove successful and yet medical schools don't teach these techniques. Heck, you probably can't even find her books in medical libraries in medical schools in this country. Heck, most MD's don't even take Chiropractor's seriously and they go through far more formal training than MT's do.

Another problem with massage therapy receiving any credit for dealing with chronic pain, is sadly a self inflicted one. While, most therapists truly want to help their clients live a pain free life, far more are nothing more than glorified skin rubbers. They, couldn't tell you where the piriformis is much less what it does. How can you address chronic pain in someone if you think the biggie smallus is actually a muscle?

There is good news though. More and more Americans are looking for alternative ways to deal with pain than ever before. They are tired of taking drugs for pain and then having to take more drugs to counteract the side effects of the pain medication. I have at least one person come to see me a week that says something along the lines of, "my doctor wrote me a prescription for pain but I don't like the side effects of the medication. Can you help me?" In almost every case I can. Not always, but more often then not. I actually had a client who suffered from chronic thoracic outlet syndrome. Why? He had thirteen ribs. He had the extra rib removed and the pain went away. But, his is indeed a rare situation. Not only do we as therapists need to spread the gospel about the therapeutic benefits of massage to the general public but we need to encourage our fellow therapists to never stop learning so that they become professionals as well.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on November 25, 2011 at 2:44am

I just don't see any advantage in seeing a chiropractor over a skilled massage therapist... I really dont.. Whats interesting is that the skilled chiropractors are doing soft tissue work..  Like Active Release.   The MDs, well some people may need surgery...Id guess only half of the ones they operate on for structural problems need that surgery.. just a guess...But I don't think I'm too far off on that..  And carpal tunnel..About the only time I cant completely fix that situation is if they have had a few years of medical intervention,with all those injections and stuff... I worked with a hair stylist that got carpal tunnel surgery.. and after the surgery she still had carpal tunnel.. damn...They cut that nerve for nothing.. Of course the extensor muscles in her forearms were still hurting.. that was the carpal tunnel.. They don't know the difference between muscle pain and nerve pain? I dont get it? Like that doctor in your home town I guess?  And even nerve pain can be caused my muscles..Whatever...I certainly cant help everyone..that's for sure..But I know if I can or can not really fast.. and I dont rip people off having them come in thee times a week for six weeks on some treatment plan when all they need is  five minutes of trigger point work on one trigger point.. My goodness..  and  when I look at my income compared to his.. he makes 10 times what I do?   Truth remains hidden.  Brainwashing going on here if you ask me...Another thing..Im quite sure that there are massage therapists in this forum that can offer more to my clients then me. They would humble me with their abilities and skills. I know that .. But there isnt a chiropractor that can.. Not now.  No way.  Glorified skin rubbers, well thats part of it too.  Thats why Ive complained on almost all my threads on how massage therapists are being trained.. I dont know...I feel like I accidentally went down the rabbit whole.. Im in an Alice in Wonderland world... lol   I fixed that kid and made forty bucks .. that chiro got thousands being incompetent, or worse, criminal. No other reason for something like that? Is there?  lol   But Im happy... I just like to say what I see, or what I think I know.. But it makes me feel good to know others can relate to what Im saying.   THE DUST OF TRUTH SWIRLS, AND SEEKS ITS OWN CRACKS OF ENTRY.  AND A TREE FALLEN IN THE FOREST, WITHOUT EARS TO HEAR, MAKES NO SOUND. YET IT FALLS.

Micah Goodman said:

I think the biggest reason our health care system is so jacked up is because doctor's are trained to do two things; one, prescribe medication and two cut you open. If you go to almost every major medical school in the country that is what they teach. The benefits of massage have been known in this country for over 100 years but largely ignored. Why? A doctor makes money off of office visits every time you come in to get a new prescription and every time they preform surgery on you. They stop making money off of you if you actually are healed. In the town in which I live a doctor (who lost his medical license for drug abuse) has made a multimillion dollar career of off carpal tunnel operations. Do you think he will ever preach the benefits of massage? Nope.

I mean Dr. Janet Travel pioneered trigger point therapy. She worked on a US President for chronic back pain as a result of a war related injury, has published her experiences that to this day prove successful and yet medical schools don't teach these techniques. Heck, you probably can't even find her books in medical libraries in medical schools in this country. Heck, most MD's don't even take Chiropractor's seriously and they go through far more formal training than MT's do.

Another problem with massage therapy receiving any credit for dealing with chronic pain, is sadly a self inflicted one. While, most therapists truly want to help their clients live a pain free life, far more are nothing more than glorified skin rubbers. They, couldn't tell you where the piriformis is much less what it does. How can you address chronic pain in someone if you think the biggie smallus is actually a muscle?

There is good news though. More and more Americans are looking for alternative ways to deal with pain than ever before. They are tired of taking drugs for pain and then having to take more drugs to counteract the side effects of the pain medication. I have at least one person come to see me a week that says something along the lines of, "my doctor wrote me a prescription for pain but I don't like the side effects of the medication. Can you help me?" In almost every case I can. Not always, but more often then not. I actually had a client who suffered from chronic thoracic outlet syndrome. Why? He had thirteen ribs. He had the extra rib removed and the pain went away. But, his is indeed a rare situation. Not only do we as therapists need to spread the gospel about the therapeutic benefits of massage to the general public but we need to encourage our fellow therapists to never stop learning so that they become professionals as well.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on November 25, 2011 at 3:55am

Qualification here... I dont wanna come off as a Mr. know it all... There are people that Im not able to help, that probably others in here could.  And every time I get a massage.. Im thinking.. Wow.. Ive got a lot to learn.. I hope Im that good.. And after curring this one lady of really bad hip pain that she had for years.. She told one of her friends that had an almost identical problem.. Her freind came in all excited to see me.. And I couldn't help her at all.. So there you go..

Gordon J. Wallis said:

I just don't see any advantage in seeing a chiropractor over a skilled massage therapist... I really dont.. Whats interesting is that the skilled chiropractors are doing soft tissue work..  Like Active Release.   The MDs, well some people may need surgery...Id guess only half of the ones they operate on for structural problems need that surgery.. just a guess...But I don't think I'm too far off on that..  And carpal tunnel..About the only time I cant completely fix that situation is if they have had a few years of medical intervention,with all those injections and stuff... I worked with a hair stylist that got carpal tunnel surgery.. and after the surgery she still had carpal tunnel.. damn...They cut that nerve for nothing.. Of course the extensor muscles in her forearms were still hurting.. that was the carpal tunnel.. They don't know the difference between muscle pain and nerve pain? I dont get it? Like that doctor in your home town I guess?  And even nerve pain can be caused my muscles..Whatever...I certainly cant help everyone..that's for sure..But I know if I can or can not really fast.. and I dont rip people off having them come in thee times a week for six weeks on some treatment plan when all they need is  five minutes of trigger point work on one trigger point.. My goodness..  and  when I look at my income compared to his.. he makes 10 times what I do?   Truth remains hidden.  Brainwashing going on here if you ask me...Another thing..Im quite sure that there are massage therapists in this forum that can offer more to my clients then me. They would humble me with their abilities and skills. I know that .. But there isnt a chiropractor that can.. Not now.  No way.  Glorified skin rubbers, well thats part of it too.  Thats why Ive complained on almost all my threads on how massage therapists are being trained.. I dont know...I feel like I accidentally went down the rabbit whole.. Im in an Alice in Wonderland world... lol   I fixed that kid and made forty bucks .. that chiro got thousands being incompetent, or worse, criminal. No other reason for something like that? Is there?  lol   But Im happy... I just like to say what I see, or what I think I know.. But it makes me feel good to know others can relate to what Im saying.   THE DUST OF TRUTH SWIRLS, AND SEEKS ITS OWN CRACKS OF ENTRY.  AND A TREE FALLEN IN THE FOREST, WITHOUT EARS TO HEAR, MAKES NO SOUND. YET IT FALLS.

Micah Goodman said:

I think the biggest reason our health care system is so jacked up is because doctor's are trained to do two things; one, prescribe medication and two cut you open. If you go to almost every major medical school in the country that is what they teach. The benefits of massage have been known in this country for over 100 years but largely ignored. Why? A doctor makes money off of office visits every time you come in to get a new prescription and every time they preform surgery on you. They stop making money off of you if you actually are healed. In the town in which I live a doctor (who lost his medical license for drug abuse) has made a multimillion dollar career of off carpal tunnel operations. Do you think he will ever preach the benefits of massage? Nope.

I mean Dr. Janet Travel pioneered trigger point therapy. She worked on a US President for chronic back pain as a result of a war related injury, has published her experiences that to this day prove successful and yet medical schools don't teach these techniques. Heck, you probably can't even find her books in medical libraries in medical schools in this country. Heck, most MD's don't even take Chiropractor's seriously and they go through far more formal training than MT's do.

Another problem with massage therapy receiving any credit for dealing with chronic pain, is sadly a self inflicted one. While, most therapists truly want to help their clients live a pain free life, far more are nothing more than glorified skin rubbers. They, couldn't tell you where the piriformis is much less what it does. How can you address chronic pain in someone if you think the biggie smallus is actually a muscle?

There is good news though. More and more Americans are looking for alternative ways to deal with pain than ever before. They are tired of taking drugs for pain and then having to take more drugs to counteract the side effects of the pain medication. I have at least one person come to see me a week that says something along the lines of, "my doctor wrote me a prescription for pain but I don't like the side effects of the medication. Can you help me?" In almost every case I can. Not always, but more often then not. I actually had a client who suffered from chronic thoracic outlet syndrome. Why? He had thirteen ribs. He had the extra rib removed and the pain went away. But, his is indeed a rare situation. Not only do we as therapists need to spread the gospel about the therapeutic benefits of massage to the general public but we need to encourage our fellow therapists to never stop learning so that they become professionals as well.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Laura Allen on November 26, 2011 at 9:31am

I get a huge amount of doctor and dentist referrals for my clinic. And that is because I present myself as someone for them to collaborate with, not someone who is claiming to be better than they are. Apparently none of them are the least bit insulted when their patients go back and tell them that the massage helped when nothing else did, because they have been referring to me for over ten years. You should assume that if you are on the Internet spouting off your mouth about how much more effective you are than the rest of the medical community, that they're not going to be lining up to send clients to you.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Daniel Cohen on November 26, 2011 at 10:33am

Glad to hear the professions coexist and are compatible there. In California it has been a love hate relationship. Chiropractors are the largest employer of Massage Therapists here. A Chiropractor is allowed to use their license as an umbrella for massage and open two facilities with their one license. They don't even need a trained MT to advertise licensed massage. Often they train for what they want and many of the "Chiropractic" offices near my place do no Chiropractic services. The usual rate paid is $14 to $17 per (hour)massage (usually deep tissue). There is no need to refer out because they are operating their own. The California Chiropractic Association was the last major opponent to State Licensed/Certified Massage in California and the reason it is a certificate from an authorized certifying company rather than licensed by a state Massage Board.

The bruises are still sensitive here.

I think it is enough to say what we have done without disparaging others no matter what our personal opinions are.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on November 26, 2011 at 1:17pm

I think I made it clear that when I said the word I.. I meant any Skilled Massage Therapist.   If I hurt my back, didn't loose  control of my bowels, or something horrible like that.  Id rather see a SKILLED MASSAGE THERAPIST any day, over any other health care professional.. There is just no doubt on that what so ever.  I know what I know...Almost 3 decades doing this.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Daniel Cohen on November 26, 2011 at 1:26pm

My choice is as yours. My first choice is to be seen by one of the skilled bodyworkers I know rather than any other healthcare professional. Based on the assessment I might have to go elsewhere but I would make them first choice not last. If it isn't immediately life threatening there is time to try what usually works before seeking emergency care.

 

Gordon do you do house calls to SoCal?
Gordon J. Wallis said:

I think I made it clear that when I said I.. I meant any Skilled Massage Therapist.   If I hurt my back, didn't loose  control of my bladder, or something horrible like that.  Id rather see a SKILLED MASSAGE THERAPIST any day, over any other health care professional.. There is just no doubt on that what so ever.  I know what I know...Almost 3 decades doing this.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on November 26, 2011 at 1:33pm

No I don't do house calls.. I have in the past for sure....I don't even have a massage table now.. I do all my work at a spa. I work seven days a week.. Not eight hour days though..I have plenty of time off.

Daniel Cohen said:

My choice is as yours. My first choice is to be seen by one of the skilled bodyworkers I know rather than any other healthcare professional. Based on the assessment I might have to go elsewhere but I would make them first choice not last. If it isn't immediately life threatening there is time to try what usually works before seeking emergency care.

 

Gordon do you do house calls to SoCal?
Gordon J. Wallis said:

I think I made it clear that when I said I.. I meant any Skilled Massage Therapist.   If I hurt my back, didn't loose  control of my bladder, or something horrible like that.  Id rather see a SKILLED MASSAGE THERAPIST any day, over any other health care professional.. There is just no doubt on that what so ever.  I know what I know...Almost 3 decades doing this.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Therese Schwartz on November 26, 2011 at 1:35pm

I have clients who come to me and also get chiropractic work done, and it works wonderfully for them.  They always ask me if that's OK, like I'm going be upset that I'm not their only source of help!  I love it when people get different work done from different practitioners.

Like Gordon and Daniel, my choice is to go to a skilled bodyworker first.  Although I'm a huge fan of my Naturopath!  

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on November 27, 2011 at 4:14am

Laura, I kind of want to qualify myself some more... I recently got ride of a lot of books on various aspects of massage.. I  kept only a few that I consider important.  I will list them.  Not in any particular order.. ESSENTIAL ANATOMY For Healing & Martial Arts by Marc Tedeschi, The Concise Book of Trigger Points by Simeon Niel-Asher, The Muscle and Bone Palpation Manual by Joseph E. Muscolino, Staying Supple by John Jerome, Anatomy Trains by Thomas W. Myers, The Challenge of Pain by Ronald Melzack and Patrick D. Wall, and Plain & Simple Guide to Therapeutic Massage & Bodywork Certification by Laura Allen. I respect all those people and am humbled by their knowledge and contributions to this field..That being said.....  I have in the past, made a good living working with and for chiropractors..I bought a $230,000.00 home making $127.00 and hour billing insurance companies from chiropractic referrals working in their offices.. And that was in the late 1980s and early90s.. I also got numerous referals from several MDs at the time... The patient would come in.. I would  give them a really good massage,, The chiropractor would adjust them.. The patient was happy, the chiropractor was happy, and I was happy.  Gosh we would have some insurance patients one, two years sometimes.. I did that for about ten years. Now sense then ive also been on food stamps and have had several people want their money back after Ive massaged them.  I'm not Nationally Certified, I took a practice test and flunked it...Anyway its almost 20 years later... I can safely say that Ive massaged 15 to 40 massages a week for 27 years. Its like all of a sudden, Ive reached the 100th Monkey or something.  I see things much differently now..  There are many different approaches to massage as you know.. Ive focused one aspect  my entire career. Trigger point work. Thats it..  I read Travels books maybe five times from cover to cover years ago. And have tested everything I know or thought I knew about trigger points on everyone Ive massaged over those 27 years... Reality has changed for me. A client comes into see me for massage..Im not the same massage therapist as I was when I made all that money working and  collaborating with chiropractors years ago.. I cant help but know what I know....Even though I dont make near as much money now as I did way back then.  I work in a day spa now....Not a medical clinic or chiropractic office(for ten years).  I have a 3rd person look at things now, so to speak... Just today, I had a new client.. Tell me what you think about this? This is a regular occurrence for me.  ...I can only come to one conclusion, that makes me say what I say.. ... Id never seen her before.. An older women,,,Id guess in her late 60s, maybe 70.. I didnt ask...There is no intake form. No diagnosis of anything to refer too..This is how I talked to her and every client that Ive never seen before... I asked her how I could help her, and if there is anything she wants me to know before her massage..She had an 80 minute massage scheduled. She told me that she had a gift certificate from last Christmases and decided that she better come in and use it...  I said ok.. Have you ever seen a chiropractor or medical doctor for any structural aches & pains.. Because I want to know if there is some grouse contra indication I should know about...She was a complete stranger too me.. She told me that she is currently seeing a chiropractor...I asked her what she is seeing him for.. She told me that she hurt her back when reaching and moving something... I asked her what hurts.. she said her mid back, also between her shoulders  and the pain goes up her neck, and she cant lift her left arm without pain.. I asked her how long she has been seeing the chiropractor.. She said she is seeing him three times a week for two months now.. She told me he says that she has too much curve in her neck.. And that he puts her in some kind of neck traction thing in order correct that?.  I know nothing about too much curve in a neck.. But I do know that a trigger point in one of the teres muscles, or infraspinatus, or perhaps supraspinatus, or maybe deltoids can restrict abduction.. But she had other pain problems.. So I decided to do quick trigger point scan from her hips to the top of her head. Only took a few minutes.  Here is what I found... A really bad trigger point on her left spinal erectors at about the T12 level..And a really bad trigger point on her left infraspinatus( that would restrict abduction) .. In addition I found a bad trigger point on her right spinal errectors at the T2 level, and a bad trigger point in her right upper trap. So shoot...Ive worked on trigger points for 27 years... I worked .20 or 30 seconds on each of those trigger points.. Then I turned her over and did some real good cervical work.. loosening up her entire neck structure..  I finished working on her in much less then an hour.  I suggested that we stop , and she can use the rest of her gift certificate  for a follow up visit on Monday....When she came out of the room I  was waiting for her with a glass of water..  She was smiling... She told me that her body felt light and free. And she could  raise her arm without pain.. Now she may still have too much curve in her neck.  Although it looked fine to me?.  But the presenting symptoms that she came in with before the massage were pretty much gone at that point.... She happily rescheduled for Monday..You should of seen her smile ..Im sorry if it sounds like Im spouting off.. I just did what I do. Easy wheezy Japaneazy  What other conclusions can one come to about her therapeutic care up to that point? Gosh. If I collaborated with that guy... He'd be out of business fast!  Anyway.. Ive ended this tread now.. Ive said what Ive needed to say to get it off my chest... The interesting thing for me, sense Ive been doing this kind of work, is that Truth seems to change for me as time goes by?  And Laura,, If I ever pass that National Certification. Sorry, you will have to take some credit for it... lol
Laura Allen said:

I get a huge amount of doctor and dentist referrals for my clinic. And that is because I present myself as someone for them to collaborate with, not someone who is claiming to be better than they are. Apparently none of them are the least bit insulted when their patients go back and tell them that the massage helped when nothing else did, because they have been referring to me for over ten years. You should assume that if you are on the Internet spouting off your mouth about how much more effective you are than the rest of the medical community, that they're not going to be lining up to send clients to you.

• ▶ Reply

▶ Reply to Discussion

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• 4
• 5
• 6
• 7
• Next ›
• Page