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Questions about Trigger Point, Myofascial.....
I am not a massage therapist - I hope it is okay to ask here some questions as a patient too. If not, then I am sorry and the moderator can delete the message here of course .
For over 4 years I am sick and my doctors say I have fibromyalgia. So far no treatments helped. Regarding massage I only got deep tissue massage for about 6 months. It was nice to have - BUT it didn't do anything for my pain and my dizziness.
That's why I wanted to try now some different types of massage, but have some questions about it:
1.)Is Trigger Point therapy and Myofascial Trigger Point the same or are these different techniques?
What is Myofascial release?
2.)Could one or more of the three above mentioned massage techniques help with my symptoms
(I attached a drawing of my main symptoms of the head, muscle etc)?
Symptoms that are not on the drawing are: constant dizzines, brain fog, nausea, sensitive to light (eyes), migranes/ headeaches every day, food allergies.
3.) Right now I am in physical therapy ( 2 days a week), but it really makes my symptoms and pain
worse. So, I don't know if I should continue PT or if I can combine it with massage.
4.) I live in a very small town where are not many massage therapist. How can I find a really good
therapist, who is really experienced and knowledged - is there maybe a special website or so
where I can find one?
I want to thank you in advance! And sorry for the bad English, it's not my mother language and I am still learning.
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Kopfschmerz1_0001.jpg, 2 MB
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Daniel Cohen on
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try this http://www.massagetherapy.com/find/. Have you tried Thai Massage, Acupressure or Lymphatic Massage?
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Permalink Reply by Walt Fritz, PT on
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Ysabel,
The drawing that you attached certainly shows the pain that you suffer. You just understand that there are many very good methods of treatment. Finding a therapist who is especially good at one of these modalities is as important as the modality itself.
Trigger Point Therapy and Myofascial Trigger Point could be considered the same thing, while Myofascial Release (MFR) is (typically) quite different. I practice MFR, so I have a bias toward this type of therapy and I have seen some very good results with patients who were given the diagnosis of fibromyalgia. I cannot speak for trigger point therapy. The drawing that you attached is quite similar to the drawings I ask my patients to make when they first come to see me.
I am a physical therapist, even though I practice a modality that is more common among massage therapists. While traditional physical therapy has value in certain cases, I do not believe the exercise-based approach to treatment that most physical therapists take is an appropriate intervention for fibromyalgia. Certainly being strong is a good thing, but increasing strength seldom overcomes pain.
As I said previously, the skills and experience of the therapist sometimes matter more than the modality used. If you would like some help finding a myofascial release therapist near you, please contact me privately.
Walt
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Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on
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I have released pain in all those areas more then once... Walt is right...Its not so much the style of massage as it is the therapist thats working with you... Its like you can get the attorneys that I get, or you can get the ones that O.J. Simpson gets.. There is a difference.. I would take Walt Fritz up on his offer to help you find a good therapist...Im a trigger point guy.. I know what I do.. And I know there is a bodyworker out there that can help you.
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http://www.healingwatersclinic.com/services/naturalandholisticthera...
I would imagine that a clinic like the one above, would be good for you...They offer and interesting combination of healing services.
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Permalink Reply by Ysabel Wu on
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I want to thank you all for the good and informative information!!!
That gives me really hope for finding healing or at least some pain reliefe.
Now, I'll hope I can find a good therapist in my area.
@Walt Fritz: I send you a private message right now.
THANKS!
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Permalink Reply by Kay Warren on
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Have you seen a good chiropractor? Some of your symptoms are often caused by significant displacement of C1-C3. It takes a subtle hand to adjust that properly, and you'll want someone who does manual (not machine) cervical traction. Ok, where to go from there...
If you haven't yet read the book "Fibromyalgia and Chronic Myofascial Pain" by Devin Starlanyl and Mary Ellen Copeland, you need to go to Amazon and get it now. This is the single best, most comprehensive guide I've ever seen on FMS, and it will educate you on what's happening in your body and brain, and what to do about it. I've been a therapist for 27 years, I've written articles on PMS & CMP, and you need this book. Trigger points and their related pain are a separate syndrome from FMS, but the syndromes overlap, and complicate each other. About 1/2 the people who have FMS also have CMP.
As for massage therapy, you're going to be looking for someone who has training in both trigger point and fascial release. a lighter touch is going to be better than a heavy one in this case. One of the prime symptoms of FMS is a delayed response to a pain stimulus, and then the response is all out of proportion to the actual stimulus. Physical therapy can often be combined with massage with good results, but from what I can tell with limited information, I don't think you're ready for PT just yet.
As for finding a therapist, here are a couple of links to reputable associations:
http://www.amtamassage.org/findamassage/index.html
In other news, the best long term treatment so far for Fibromyalgia is Hypnosis. The woman who invented the protocol is Melissa Roth, and she suffered from FMS for years. Her original degree was in Pharmacology, she got out of that field, and she's been a professional hypnotherapist for 20 years. She lives in Alabama, and she sells the CDs. Here's her website:
http://alabamahypnotherapycenter.com/
All this should help you get started on a path of positive change, and I'm happy to answer other questions as they come up, but please get your cervical spine checked out. Nausea and light sensitivity can be FMS symptoms, but not very often.
Kay
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Hello Kay,
thanks for your message here too!
I have the symptoms like dizziness, brain fog, nausea and some more for over 4 years. From then on I saw many doctors , to try to find out what is the cause.
1 1/2 years ago one doctor told me it could be possible that all my symptoms come from my upper cervical spine (C1,C2,C3).
Then I went to see a "normal chiropractor" - it didn't change any thing.
After this I went to see a special Upper Cervical Chiropractor (Blair technique). He said I have a problem with C1, C2 and adjusted it many times. From then on everything went downhill. My dizziness got worse, I had problems with my neck (stiff, pain etc) which I didn't had before. The x-rays showed that after several adjustments everything should have been right now - but I felt so much worse. He then reffered to another Upper Cervical Chiropractor after 10 weeks. There it was the same (he used Kale technique). I felt worse and worse after each adjustment. After 12 weeks there this doctor also referred me to another Upper Cerviacl doctor (NUCCA technique) who is supposed to be one of the best in the US (it was a 5 hour drive for me).
Same situation here. X-rays showed after adjustments that everything was in place - BUT I felt even more worse (I saw him 6 months).
Since I saw the Upper Cervical Chiropractors I got all the other symptoms (from my attached drawing) like constant headaches/migranes, this tight feeling like wearing a cap (also constant, 24/7) and tightness everywhere.
So most of my Fibromyalgia + pain symptoms came definetely with/ after the adjustments with the Upper Cervical Chiropractors! I am scared to go and see another one.
I don't know if the adjustments made my vertebraes more wrong ( I mean if maybe C1, C2 is even more out of place than before) or if maybe C1,C2 ARE in the right postion now, but my muscles and myofascial is not used now to the new postion of the head etc - and that's what is causing my trouble with the head/neck. (for this reason I wanted to try massage therapy MFR or Trigger Point to see if it "just" the muscles ---)
Nobody can tell me. It's devastating.
The UC chiropractors tell me the x rays show that everything is in right position and I should feel better and not worse - and that there is nothing they can do for me anymore.
A normal orthopaedic doctor didn't see anything (not before and not after I saw the chiropractors) and said they don't know, it's probably Fibromyalgia (which I don't think I have).
It is now about 18 months after I got the first adjustments at the Upper Cervical chiropractors - and I haven't seen them for about 3 months ---- but it is still very bad, and I have the feeling it is getting worse every week.
Sorry for the long story ------ but I always hope maybe there is someone who reads this and can help or has advise or so.
THANK YOU!
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Permalink Reply by Therese Schwartz on
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Ysabel - oh my goodness! I really feel for you. I do CranioSacral Therapy, which is a light-touch treatment that works with the body to facilitate healing. It's an excellent therapy for fibromyalgia, dizziness, migraines/headaches, fascial issues and much more. I'd suggest finding a good CranioSacral person in your area. For more information, try this website:
To find a therapist, click on "Find a Practitioner" under "Hot Topics" on the left side of the page. Then click "Therapist Search" on the left side of the new page. Then put in your search info - I usually use city and state. Then choose "CranioSacral Therapy" under "Search by Modality".
It sounds like a chore, but it goes very quickly. You will get a list of people who have taken CST classes, and also what other classes they've taken that are offered by the IAHP (International Alliance of Healthcare Providers). The more dots, the better. I'd suggest you go to someone with at least 2 dots, preferably more.
I'll be happy to answer any questions you have!
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wow, you don't respond well to chiropractic. I should ask, did any of them ever gently pull as if they were pulling your head straight off the top? i'm convinced many of the issues are lodged there, but I don't think you should try another DC unless they do activator only. I would suggest cranio-sacral. Now, that being said. about the body aches etc. Are you on Statin medication? Lipitor or one of it's cousins? One of the known side-effects is tiredness & muscle aches, and i've often wondered if the explosion in fibromyalgia diagnoses over the last 15 years has a correlation to statin use. I have clients who ache horribly on that stuff, can barely get out of bed, and others with mild aches, and still others with no symptoms. Follow Therese's suggestion, and go to the upledger site, and get a referral.
Ysabel Wu said:Hello Kay,
thanks for your message here too!
I have the symptoms like dizziness, brain fog, nausea and some more for over 4 years. From then on I saw many doctors , to try to find out what is the cause.
1 1/2 years ago one doctor told me it could be possible that all my symptoms come from my upper cervical spine (C1,C2,C3).
Then I went to see a "normal chiropractor" - it didn't change any thing.
After this I went to see a special Upper Cervical Chiropractor (Blair technique). He said I have a problem with C1, C2 and adjusted it many times. From then on everything went downhill. My dizziness got worse, I had problems with my neck (stiff, pain etc) which I didn't had before. The x-rays showed that after several adjustments everything should have been right now - but I felt so much worse. He then reffered to another Upper Cervical Chiropractor after 10 weeks. There it was the same (he used Kale technique). I felt worse and worse after each adjustment. After 12 weeks there this doctor also referred me to another Upper Cerviacl doctor (NUCCA technique) who is supposed to be one of the best in the US (it was a 5 hour drive for me).
Same situation here. X-rays showed after adjustments that everything was in place - BUT I felt even more worse (I saw him 6 months).
Since I saw the Upper Cervical Chiropractors I got all the other symptoms (from my attached drawing) like constant headaches/migranes, this tight feeling like wearing a cap (also constant, 24/7) and tightness everywhere.
So most of my Fibromyalgia + pain symptoms came definetely with/ after the adjustments with the Upper Cervical Chiropractors! I am scared to go and see another one.
I don't know if the adjustments made my vertebraes more wrong ( I mean if maybe C1, C2 is even more out of place than before) or if maybe C1,C2 ARE in the right postion now, but my muscles and myofascial is not used now to the new postion of the head etc - and that's what is causing my trouble with the head/neck. (for this reason I wanted to try massage therapy MFR or Trigger Point to see if it "just" the muscles ---)
Nobody can tell me. It's devastating.
The UC chiropractors tell me the x rays show that everything is in right position and I should feel better and not worse - and that there is nothing they can do for me anymore.
A normal orthopaedic doctor didn't see anything (not before and not after I saw the chiropractors) and said they don't know, it's probably Fibromyalgia (which I don't think I have).
It is now about 18 months after I got the first adjustments at the Upper Cervical chiropractors - and I haven't seen them for about 3 months ---- but it is still very bad, and I have the feeling it is getting worse every week.
Sorry for the long story ------ but I always hope maybe there is someone who reads this and can help or has advise or so.
THANK YOU!
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Kay, that's interesting about the statin drugs. I have a Vietnam vet who hurts all the time - he takes hydrocodone to be able to sleep at night. I'm sure he's on at least one statin drug. Good to know!
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Thanks for the information. Yes, I will look into cranio sacral therapy too.
No, I don't take any medication. I can not tolerate medication (only Tylenol, but it doesn't touch the pain) - I get all kind of side effects and my dizziness/ brain fog worsened extremely if I tried any kind of medication. Also before I was never on any kind of medication.
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Permalink Reply by Boris Prilutsky on
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Hi Ysabel.
I'm sorry to hear about your suffering. Trigger points is a results of myofascial dysfunction, and you cannot reach results by addressing only trigger points, or by just to release tensions with in muscles and connective tissue/fascia. Please read my and Dr.Ross’ article on the subject. Maybe it will help you to choose correct therapy, that will help you to manage this disorder. I hope it will be encouraging for you to know that fibromyalgia is a manageable disorder. And appropriate application of massage therapy can help a lot. Get well fast. http://medicalmassage-edu.com/ExtraArticles/Fibromyalgia.pdf
Boris Prilutsky
Ysabel Wu said:Thanks for the information. Yes, I will look into cranio sacral therapy too.
No, I don't take any medication. I can not tolerate medication (only Tylenol, but it doesn't touch the pain) - I get all kind of side effects and my dizziness/ brain fog worsened extremely if I tried any kind of medication. Also before I was never on any kind of medication.
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