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I really don't understand????
The other day I had a new client...A young healthy pregnant women.. About three months pregnant...Totally fit and healthy.. She told me that she was refused massage by two massage therapists because they were concerned about causing her problems? WTF? Both those therapists are nationally certified.. My goodness.. Chiropractors are adjusting pregnant women all the time.. Combine that with being taught to run to a medical doctor if you think you might be getting carpal tunnel.. What kind of education system is this? Its fake. Not real... This education system castrates massage therapists from the very beginning...Crippling our whole profession...And nobody involved in the education of our profession sees this? ... I guess this is more of a rant then a discussion... I just dont get why Im the only one that sees this??. Our education leaders don't see this??? That pregnant women was young and very healthy. All you new therapists out there... Know that you dont have a clue as to the capabilities of your profession...and you are loosing money. That pregnant lady is my new client now...I thank your teachers, education, and text book authors for that..
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on
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I havent reviewed this link..but Im sure she is going to say its ok to massage pregnant women.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuHQBx9gL34&feature=related I have no idea what she will say...All I know is that I can massage pregnant women all day long no problem. With no worries of causing a miscarriage ever. Im going to listen to what she says now for the first time...This will be interesting. Ok I watched it.. Ok.. Its safe to massage pregnant women...And like Daniel knows...its a nice way to attract future clients.. The chiropractors that Ive worked with would offer free services to pregnant women for that very reason...Massage is healing and healthful for anyone..pregnant or not.
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wow thats way cool Daniel....
Daniel Cohen said:Good point about post-natal massage. I offer a massage during which I work on Mother & Child. Started because new Mothers couldn't leave the baby but found to get great results for both. I found it to work best while the baby nurses.
Massage helps with infertility, throughout pregnancy (I've lost count how many I have massaged to term), and following for hip and prolapse recovery and baby bonding.
elizabeth mount said:personal experience the points don't work unless you're ready to go. Working them a lot prolonged flase labor. Lame. Side note being pregent is treated as a medical unknown. They come up with all sorts of things you should and shouldn't do because pregency is apparently so mysterious that they can't/won't say anything for certain. What ever complaints discomfot you have the general additude seems to be oh well you're pregent deal with it. oopss sorry off topic rant.
on topic for the love of god massage pregent women!!!!! and even more get massage after the baby is born. That is some tramatic stuff for the pelvis. after which one is getting very little sleep and working hard. Lots of later back pain is cause by the shifts of pregency/deliver and early infant care before the relaxin disapates.
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She is talking real.
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Some one pointed out that I said Ive done thousands of pregnancy massages...Uhm...That sounds like a lot...but I have done at least one a week for 28 years...I don't know what number that is... Anyway, I like to use the Body Support System for the pregnancy massages....You don't have to be pregnant to enjoy those...Its a very good cushion system for those of you that haven't heard them before. Ok, back to my cold...bummers.
Gordon J. Wallis said:Thats complete bull poop...Id have to hit her in the stomach to cause any harm...Ive massaged thousands of pregnant women? Not even sure? For years and years...In medical clinics with MDs around as well as Chiropractors...Please tell me about a massage therapist thats had to go to court because they caused a miscarriage? You would have to be very unconscious and abusive...Its like every day I massage a pregnant lady.. What I have noticed is that massage therapists just repeat what they have been told.. I work on pregnant women...I say what I know...Ive worked on pregnant medical doctors pressing those points...nothings happenes....Different cultures have different points..What causes a miscarriage in one culture wont in another. I had a Chinese therapist tell me that American massage therapists are really making a mistake by massaging the top of the shoulders on pregnant women. She was all upset about it. I just shrugged my shoulders and walked away.. And of course anyone pregnant or not that looks ill and sickly, you approach differently...The young lady I worked on yesterday was fit and healthy.. Glowing and happy to be pregnant.....My goodness. If I had to have doctors permission to work on people id be on the phone all day long. PS- Im not personally angery at anyone in here..And I know that you are all good caring massage therapists..But you guys have been brainwashed. This is the kind of mindset that keeps massage therapist regulated or equal to a set of hot packs in the corner of the clinic. While at the same time Chiropractors are adjusting patients, pregnant or not, every two minutes charging the same rate as we do for a one hour massage...They dont have fantasy belief systems like we do..gosh.
Jennifer Baker said:Gordon, in resonse to "What would I have to do?" There are various points on the body that are known to cause contractions in pregnant women. There are some in the upper traps, below the knee, and near the ankles. In most all cases, you would have to use direct sustained pressure to cause a miscarriage, but some women may be more sensitive than others. It is highly unlikely one could accidentally cause a miscarriage in this way, but it is possible. I have not been 'brainwahed', thank-you very much. It is simply good sense to have a client's doctor's approval.
Gordon J. Wallis said:
Like the person said...perfectly healthy women have miscarriages....I do nothing to cause a miscarriage.. Nothing. Does anybody in here know a massage therapist that had to go to court because they caused a miscarriage? Everyone I work on is under doctors care for one thing or another...Pretty much anyway...Prescription drugs kill more people then anything....I have no fear about massaging pregnant women... How would my massage cause a miscarriage? What would I have to do.?? I know this country is litigation crazy....I worked with chiropractors for years... They adjust pregnant women right and left... Thats way more violent then anything Im going to do? The best thing in the world for a pregnant women is a massage.. They love it...Perception dictates belief...Massage is healing. Not dangerous.
Therese Schwartz said:Gordon, you make really good points! And I'm sure you are right. But we live in the most litigious society on this planet and it's a good idea to be paranoid about protecting yourself. It's not about reality, it's about people's desire to blame someone else when something goes wrong.
I don't do pregnancy massage - I'm really glad you do!! I'm sure the women love it.
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Permalink Reply by Daniel Cohen on
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I was trained on the Pregopillow but never bought one. I find simply back or side lying with pillows or bolsters works fine. I also like working on a Thai mat with a body pillow to cushion.
Gordon J. Wallis said:Some one pointed out that I said Ive done thousands of pregnancy massages...Uhm...That sounds like a lot...but I have done at least one a week for 28 years...I don't know what number that is... Anyway, I like to use the Body Support System for the pregnancy massages....You don't have to be pregnant to enjoy those...Its a very good cushion system for those of you that haven't heard them before. Ok, back to my cold...bummers.
Gordon J. Wallis said:Thats complete bull poop...Id have to hit her in the stomach to cause any harm...Ive massaged thousands of pregnant women? Not even sure? For years and years...In medical clinics with MDs around as well as Chiropractors...Please tell me about a massage therapist thats had to go to court because they caused a miscarriage? You would have to be very unconscious and abusive...Its like every day I massage a pregnant lady.. What I have noticed is that massage therapists just repeat what they have been told.. I work on pregnant women...I say what I know...Ive worked on pregnant medical doctors pressing those points...nothings happenes....Different cultures have different points..What causes a miscarriage in one culture wont in another. I had a Chinese therapist tell me that American massage therapists are really making a mistake by massaging the top of the shoulders on pregnant women. She was all upset about it. I just shrugged my shoulders and walked away.. And of course anyone pregnant or not that looks ill and sickly, you approach differently...The young lady I worked on yesterday was fit and healthy.. Glowing and happy to be pregnant.....My goodness. If I had to have doctors permission to work on people id be on the phone all day long. PS- Im not personally angery at anyone in here..And I know that you are all good caring massage therapists..But you guys have been brainwashed. This is the kind of mindset that keeps massage therapist regulated or equal to a set of hot packs in the corner of the clinic. While at the same time Chiropractors are adjusting patients, pregnant or not, every two minutes charging the same rate as we do for a one hour massage...They dont have fantasy belief systems like we do..gosh.
Jennifer Baker said:Gordon, in resonse to "What would I have to do?" There are various points on the body that are known to cause contractions in pregnant women. There are some in the upper traps, below the knee, and near the ankles. In most all cases, you would have to use direct sustained pressure to cause a miscarriage, but some women may be more sensitive than others. It is highly unlikely one could accidentally cause a miscarriage in this way, but it is possible. I have not been 'brainwahed', thank-you very much. It is simply good sense to have a client's doctor's approval.
Gordon J. Wallis said:
Like the person said...perfectly healthy women have miscarriages....I do nothing to cause a miscarriage.. Nothing. Does anybody in here know a massage therapist that had to go to court because they caused a miscarriage? Everyone I work on is under doctors care for one thing or another...Pretty much anyway...Prescription drugs kill more people then anything....I have no fear about massaging pregnant women... How would my massage cause a miscarriage? What would I have to do.?? I know this country is litigation crazy....I worked with chiropractors for years... They adjust pregnant women right and left... Thats way more violent then anything Im going to do? The best thing in the world for a pregnant women is a massage.. They love it...Perception dictates belief...Massage is healing. Not dangerous.
Therese Schwartz said:Gordon, you make really good points! And I'm sure you are right. But we live in the most litigious society on this planet and it's a good idea to be paranoid about protecting yourself. It's not about reality, it's about people's desire to blame someone else when something goes wrong.
I don't do pregnancy massage - I'm really glad you do!! I'm sure the women love it.
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Yea, as long as they are comfortable. Say Daniel.... How much Thai mat work are you doing now? I use to love working on the ground years ago when I was a Shiatsu therapist.. Something I thought at the time was way better then just a massage therapist...lol Kinda like Kung-fu is better the Karate. Or something like that.. Today I still get on the table and do some good shiatsu work up and down the spine as part of my general massage.
Daniel Cohen said:I was trained on the Pregopillow but never bought one. I find simply back or side lying with pillows or bolsters works fine. I also like working on a Thai mat with a body pillow to cushion.
Gordon J. Wallis said:Some one pointed out that I said Ive done thousands of pregnancy massages...Uhm...That sounds like a lot...but I have done at least one a week for 28 years...I don't know what number that is... Anyway, I like to use the Body Support System for the pregnancy massages....You don't have to be pregnant to enjoy those...Its a very good cushion system for those of you that haven't heard them before. Ok, back to my cold...bummers.
Gordon J. Wallis said:Thats complete bull poop...Id have to hit her in the stomach to cause any harm...Ive massaged thousands of pregnant women? Not even sure? For years and years...In medical clinics with MDs around as well as Chiropractors...Please tell me about a massage therapist thats had to go to court because they caused a miscarriage? You would have to be very unconscious and abusive...Its like every day I massage a pregnant lady.. What I have noticed is that massage therapists just repeat what they have been told.. I work on pregnant women...I say what I know...Ive worked on pregnant medical doctors pressing those points...nothings happenes....Different cultures have different points..What causes a miscarriage in one culture wont in another. I had a Chinese therapist tell me that American massage therapists are really making a mistake by massaging the top of the shoulders on pregnant women. She was all upset about it. I just shrugged my shoulders and walked away.. And of course anyone pregnant or not that looks ill and sickly, you approach differently...The young lady I worked on yesterday was fit and healthy.. Glowing and happy to be pregnant.....My goodness. If I had to have doctors permission to work on people id be on the phone all day long. PS- Im not personally angery at anyone in here..And I know that you are all good caring massage therapists..But you guys have been brainwashed. This is the kind of mindset that keeps massage therapist regulated or equal to a set of hot packs in the corner of the clinic. While at the same time Chiropractors are adjusting patients, pregnant or not, every two minutes charging the same rate as we do for a one hour massage...They dont have fantasy belief systems like we do..gosh.
Jennifer Baker said:Gordon, in resonse to "What would I have to do?" There are various points on the body that are known to cause contractions in pregnant women. There are some in the upper traps, below the knee, and near the ankles. In most all cases, you would have to use direct sustained pressure to cause a miscarriage, but some women may be more sensitive than others. It is highly unlikely one could accidentally cause a miscarriage in this way, but it is possible. I have not been 'brainwahed', thank-you very much. It is simply good sense to have a client's doctor's approval.
Gordon J. Wallis said:
Like the person said...perfectly healthy women have miscarriages....I do nothing to cause a miscarriage.. Nothing. Does anybody in here know a massage therapist that had to go to court because they caused a miscarriage? Everyone I work on is under doctors care for one thing or another...Pretty much anyway...Prescription drugs kill more people then anything....I have no fear about massaging pregnant women... How would my massage cause a miscarriage? What would I have to do.?? I know this country is litigation crazy....I worked with chiropractors for years... They adjust pregnant women right and left... Thats way more violent then anything Im going to do? The best thing in the world for a pregnant women is a massage.. They love it...Perception dictates belief...Massage is healing. Not dangerous.
Therese Schwartz said:Gordon, you make really good points! And I'm sure you are right. But we live in the most litigious society on this planet and it's a good idea to be paranoid about protecting yourself. It's not about reality, it's about people's desire to blame someone else when something goes wrong.
I don't do pregnancy massage - I'm really glad you do!! I'm sure the women love it.
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Permalink Reply by Katie Clair on
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generally you aren't supposed to massage until the woman is into her third trimester. It isn't a fact that you could cause harm to a pregnancy its just a 'what if' pregnancies can be fragile, one little thing could go wrong and the pregnancy could terminate.
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I have no fear...Im an experienced therapist that has massage pregnant women almost every day sense 1985. I know my job....... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuHQBx9gL34&feature=related The therapist in that clip knows reality.
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I'm not saying that you shouldn't massage pregnant women! They need it more than any of us! I was just sharing why we're advised not to use massotherapy before the second trimester. Prenatal massage is next on my list of things to learn.
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Truth is...a massage cant cause a miscarriage unless the therapist is abusive...
The therapist in that youtube clip. has another clip(#2) where she continues her discussion on pregnancy massages... she is right on.
Katie Clair said:I'm not saying that you shouldn't massage pregnant women! They need it more than any of us! I was just sharing why we're advised not to use massotherapy before the second trimester. Prenatal massage is next on my list of things to learn.
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That's why as you gain experience you get more confident of your skills and experience. You learn if it goes wrong it isn't about what you did. You learn to feel what is going on and how to react to it. Now if everyone could be taught to believe what that touch reveals and how to follow it. Also to test this response. Then you would have a proper curriculum with board testing.
I work from fertility (preconception) to nursing the child (post-natal), womb to grave. I will work with miscarriage recovery to easing dying because what I do is to enhance quality of life. I am a Massage Therapist.
"generally you aren't supposed to massage until the woman is into her third trimester." Is only generally in response to a litigious overly cautious society and not any problem with doing massage in the first trimester. Of course that massage may vary from simple light relaxation to stopping the early cramping that could cause miscarriage depending on Therapist skill/knowledge and client's need.
Any restriction on your practice should be made based on your comfort doing it. Do what you are comfortable, knowledgeable, skillful, and confident in and you will succeed.
Katie Clair said:generally you aren't supposed to massage until the woman is into her third trimester. It isn't a fact that you could cause harm to a pregnancy its just a 'what if' pregnancies can be fragile, one little thing could go wrong and the pregnancy could terminate.
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Yea, and the easy way to do what Daniel just explained is to make sure she is comfortable and that she is enjoying the massage. If you do that..You will not cause a miscarriage. I keep coming back to the same theme...If they would quit teaching for the tests, and spend more time teaching people how to actually massage.... We graduate, get nationally certified, but are afraid of massaging pregnant women...Only armed with wives tails of various sorts..and then run to the doctor if we think we might be getting carpal tunnel...Gosh....I should start my own school..And underground one or something. It wouldn't be recognized(probably banned) by any organization or state, but for $2,000.00 and a months time..You wouldn't be able to pass a national or state exam.. But you would know how to massage with confidence. And you would never have to run to the doctor if you think you might be getting carpal tunnel..I guarantee that.
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