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Bongers
Does anyone do Percussion Massage with Bongers? and if so, do you have additional insurance for this?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Pam Ziskie on
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Permalink Reply by Gary W Addis, LMT on
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Bongers are 2" diameter rubber balls attached to 4" x 1/2" aluminum "springs" with a comfortable wooden handle. It might be possible to deeply bruise someone with bongers, but it would take you about 50,000 hits to one spot. The alum. is flexible, a flick of the wrist, the bongers percuss on the body and bounce off. No need for extra insurance.
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Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on
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Gary is right....You dont have to worry about bongers...
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Permalink Reply by Valerie, BWI Program on
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I'm working for The Bodywork Insurance Program (BWI) and deal with insurance issues/questions everyday. From my practice I can say that usually you don't need separate insurance for using bongers in your practice.
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A long time ago my friends and I , after working out and running, we would lay around take turns bonging each other... lol They feel good.
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All this insurance stuff for massage therapists seems to me to be a big unnecessary scam. Well maybe if you are so dumb as to brutalize your client. What are you going to do to to need insurance?...Turn their neck past their range of motion? Press so hard as to rupture an appendix? I'm sorry but you have to be really stupid to hurt some body.if you are massaging them. If you are a good therapist, the worst thing that can happen is nothing. Does deep tissue massage mean that you press so hard that you seriously injure someone? My goodness...The deepest massage should feel really freakin good...What do you do, press past the good?
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to work for anyone else in MS, i have to buy my own insurance. $99 a year for just the insurance from one company. ABMP membership provides $3 million in insurance, the website, no-charge webinars, lots of business aids, magazine subscription.That's the one I'll choose, I think.
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All Im saying... What would a massage therapist have to do to be sued for $3 million dollars? lol My goodness... So you over do it bit. Cause some busing? If you have to buy it. Then no choice... But its still a scam. Gary, I know you have no choice...
Gary W Addis said:to work for anyone else in MS, i have to buy my own insurance. $99 a year for just the insurance from one company. ABMP membership provides $3 million in insurance, the website, no-charge webinars, lots of business aids, magazine subscription.That's the one I'll choose, I think.
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Permalink Reply by Jason Erickson on
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Gordon, you would be amazed to see what kinds of injuries are inflicted by massage therapists. Here is a partial list of injuries inflicted by trained MTs during massages, which then resulted in claims submitted to ABMP liability insurance:
Fractured clavicle
Fractured femur
Dislocated sternum
Dislocated joints
... the list goes on.
There are damn good reasons for professional liability insurance. Massage is often benign, but there is potential for serious injury. I know of at least one death on a massage table resulting from a pulmonary embolism after the MT did deep tissue work on a client with deep vein thrombosis. Relatively rare, yes... but this stuff has happened, and more things could happen.
Aside from physical injury and death, massage can also result in emotional trauma. One young lady in Minnesota went to see a craniosacral therapist for her first-ever professional massage a few years ago. He started with a basic CST pelvic hold, but failed to educate her appropriately before/during the work. By the end of the session, she felt that he had sexually assaulted her for an hour, even though he was doing legit CST work. He was investigated and the issue was a temporary local sensation, but she will carry the emotional scars of that traumatic experience for many years to come. I know of other cases where massage therapists accidentally (re)traumatized veterans, battered spouses/partners, victims of sexual assault, and people suffering from some types of mental/emotional issues.
Now, all of these things are largely preventable, and most of the time MTs manage to avoid them. But they happen, sometimes due to ignorance, sometimes due to carelessness, sometimes due to incompetence, and sometimes due to sheer bad luck. And that's what insurance is for. I wouldn't practice a single day without my professional liability coverage!
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Permalink Reply by Abram Herman on
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Great points by Jason and Gary, thanks! Another thing I'd add, as a representative of ABMP, is that it's not just your actions as the therapist that can lead to a lawsuit. Over half of the claims we deal with are for general liability, which means some harm that was not caused by the treatment itself. This could be:
- Massage table collapses
- Clients falling off the table
- Clients (or even non-clients) tripping or slipping on your premises, for which you are deemed responsible
You could even have something as a crazy as a light fixture or bulb falling from the ceiling and hitting the client! Yes, they could sue you for that.
My point is, there is a portion of the liability coverage you pay for that protects against something you accidentally do to the client during treatment, but there's also a whole other portion we help with that any business owner needs, whether they're an MT or not. Anything that happens on your business premises can be your fault in a court of law, so even if you aren't the one who caused it, the client can still sue you for thousands of dollars if they slip, fall and hurt themselves on their way in or out of your space. To me, the cost you pay for liability insurance every year is a small price for the peace of mind you get, knowing that you'll never have your finances devastated by something that's totally out of your control.
I also wanted to talk about Valerie's offerings (above) with the Bodywork Insurance Program. If you do your homework, you'll notice that this company basically came out of the now defunct IMA insurance company, Will Green's business. Do a google search, and you'll see why they went out of business.
If you're paying significantly less for the "same" liability insurance, there's a pretty good chance that it's not really the same. There are usually radical differences between the policies being offered, so do your homework and make sure you know what you're actually getting before you just go with the cheapest option. In insurance, just like in anything else, you generally get what you pay for.
Best,Abram Herman
Social Media Coordinator at ABMP
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In order to cause those injuries...Gosh.. You would have to be completely out of touch with reality? What are they thinking?...The worst thing that can happen with my clients is nothing.. Where did those people go to school? Those schools should be shut down. Not arguing with you Jason.. Im just shocked.
Jason Erickson said:Gordon, you would be amazed to see what kinds of injuries are inflicted by massage therapists. Here is a partial list of injuries inflicted by trained MTs during massages, which then resulted in claims submitted to ABMP liability insurance:
Fractured clavicle
Fractured femur
Dislocated sternum
Dislocated joints
... the list goes on.
There are damn good reasons for professional liability insurance. Massage is often benign, but there is potential for serious injury. I know of at least one death on a massage table resulting from a pulmonary embolism after the MT did deep tissue work on a client with deep vein thrombosis. Relatively rare, yes... but this stuff has happened, and more things could happen.
Aside from physical injury and death, massage can also result in emotional trauma. One young lady in Minnesota went to see a craniosacral therapist for her first-ever professional massage a few years ago. He started with a basic CST pelvic hold, but failed to educate her appropriately before/during the work. By the end of the session, she felt that he had sexually assaulted her for an hour, even though he was doing legit CST work. He was investigated and the issue was a temporary local sensation, but she will carry the emotional scars of that traumatic experience for many years to come. I know of other cases where massage therapists accidentally (re)traumatized veterans, battered spouses/partners, victims of sexual assault, and people suffering from some types of mental/emotional issues.
Now, all of these things are largely preventable, and most of the time MTs manage to avoid them. But they happen, sometimes due to ignorance, sometimes due to carelessness, sometimes due to incompetence, and sometimes due to sheer bad luck. And that's what insurance is for. I wouldn't practice a single day without my professional liability coverage!
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Permalink Reply by Daniel Cohen on
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Not only to work with someone else but a company would be foolish to allow you on premises to do chair massage without insurance. It only takes one vindictive or misguided employee to file a law suit which can often go over a million. Even if it is a fraudulent claim you need to have defense to prove it. In a sue happy world where some people make their living off lawsuits. With all the extras besides PLI, I think ABMP is a great buy.
Gordon J. Wallis said:All Im saying... What would a massage therapist have to do to be sued for $3 million dollars? lol My goodness... So you over do it bit. Cause some busing? If you have to buy it. Then no choice... But its still a scam. Gary, I know you have no choice...
Gary W Addis said:
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