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Needing advice from any who have experience working with fibromyalgia clients
I have a new client who has fairly severe firbomyalgia. Most of her pain is in her calves, just above her knee, her hands, and upper back.
I've just completed the second session. I did tell her (based on what I've read) that she may feel more pain after the first few sessions, but that it would lessen and help overall after many more sessions.
The site I went to recommended starting out twice a week. I've been using very gentle swedish massage, along with myofascial release.
She experiences pain, not during the massage, but immediately afterward. Then it gets better, and then worse again. I'm not sure if this is normal or not. It's hard to find concrete details on what to expect.
Can anyone suggest a good site on firbo that is from a massage perspective? Or share your own experiences with me?
For the second session I tried working on each area less, in case I spent too much time there and thus, aggravated the muscles.
I appreciate any advice you all have to give me. ~ Jennifer Baker LMT
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Wilson Jordan on
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You really believe that something can happen inside of the body due to outside forces. Meaning that cause is outside of the body. That justifies Surgery for sure and follows suit with that same kind of thinking. The TP is no exception to the, for the body or in the body. It is a self contained that controls for the most part what all it bring into itself. The system can be relied upon to heal itself when breakdown or interruption happens; when any situation becomes chronic it means the body's system/s are breaking down even if they are speeding up. That happens from the inside out. The treat the body from the outside by blaming breakdown on outside forces is "witchcraft".
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Permalink Reply by Therese Schwartz on
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What we have here is a classic push-pull of different ideologies. I can see what each side is trying to say, but it's not being communicated clearly on one side. Communication is two or more individuals sharing and understanding an idea.
Wilson, what you have to say is good. However, your method of delivery makes it difficult to read or accept - even to someone who might agree with you. I'm sure that from your point of view, you are trying to share information. Unfortunately, it's coming across that you are trying to tell everyone that they don't get it and aren't doing it right unless they see things from your point of view. I have an IQ of 140; I process information at a good rate of speed and am open to new ideas. Even so, I can't comprehend all of what you are trying to say because the delivery is so convoluted and complicated that I actually don't want to read your posts. I'm not sure if that's because you don't know how to communicate or if it's because you actually do have a superiority complex. Either way, there's much improvement you could make.
Gary, you are very good at communicating your ideas. I appreciate your short and to-the-point posts. But you do have a rigid, Western mindset - it wouldn't hurt to be a little more open to the idea that the body is far more complex than we can understand from a Western viewpoint. There are energy systems in the body; I work with them every day. We are far more than just the sum of our parts. I'm not saying you have to buy into anyone's BS though - it's good to stay grounded and think for yourself. I'm having to learn that as a life lesson! :)
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Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on
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Well I think this thread is over for me. Lol. I just talk about what I do. All I know for sure is that I'm a better therapist now then I ever have been. I'm sure that goes for all of us.
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Permalink Reply by Gary W Addis, LMT on
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Wilson, suddenly you are speaking of merely "laying the hands on" and earlier you distinctly said palpating, to wit:
"Next you have to palpate the kidney region of different people. Do so with intention because you will notice different texture, size, hardness, softness etc. Each one of these says something about the Kidney." Palpating, not merely laying the hands on-- a huge difference, Mr Jordan. Iron rules that all massage therapists should adhere to: if pulse is felt between your finger, then MOVE off the blood vessel; NEVER apply direct pressure on the unprotected kidneys; never apply pressure to the swollen abdomen of a pregnant woman.
Now, having said that, I don't think you are poking your fingers through anyone's kidneys. You're speaking of gentle prodding. But you are not an endocrinologist, you don't specialize in internal medicine. You are a massage therapist. So poking and prodding of internal organs and interpreting the results (i.e., diagnosing) is certainly outside the scope of practice of a massage therapist.
Wilson Jordan said:Your exaggerations make is sound like you have understood what I have been talking about. And, to think that lying your hands in the area (region) where the Kidneys and Adrenals are located (but only on the surface) can cause harm to either organ is prehistoric paranoia based on and absence of palpatory skills not endangerments.
When we are so locked into model and it is only through that model that we understand the body. The fact is the body is beyond any model of it that humans have thus realized. Belief might help but it certainly will not cure through hands on but maybe it will, that is not my call. Critical thinking, is also westernized fortitude of "right-ness" the human body is beyond whatever thoughts we have thus far realized; The machine taking itself apart. Touch and feel which are the arts we share is the guide, not books. Books can identify but books cannot feel that is crucial because to rely upon what they say versus understanding what our hands already know. The caveat is "what we know" may invite or prohibit and at the time one has no way of knowing when similarity cannot be found. Because one is for the sure the body is the same, everywhere. Thus what we are addressing or discussing will apply anywhere. I am saying to you that you don't understand what I mean nor its implications to "drain" and or balance the adrenals & Kidneys. Without such a reference point how could you possible understand what I'm saying. The trick is here I get that you believe you do and I know you don't. I am not trying to teach you anything but engage you in rationale processes in bodywork those that are familiar as well as those that are foreign. The exchange of information is not an idle pursuit. Either we back or write another time because right now I'm saying you did not understand what I was saying and that you believe you do. I did understand what you were saying, whether or not you felt that way, I'm open to hear.
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I'm down with that! :)
Gordon J. Wallis said:Well I think this thread is over for me. Lol. I just talk about what I do. All I know for sure is that I'm a better therapist now then I ever have been. I'm sure that goes for all of us.
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Wilson, you entered this discussion thread in instructor mode. Jennifer asked a question...for a referral to a website that would be of help in treating her client's fibromyalgia. Instead, you attempted to teach her yourself. Your advice, to press the adrenal points of the feet and wait, up to an hour(?) until she felt the tissue respond was both radical in concept and insufficient.
Jennifer, I should have provided you with this link earlier. I believe this is what you're seeking. Now, this approach is traditional massage therapy for FM. I don't affirm its efficacy, but the article discusses MT for the entire body of an FM patient; it is complete, and well written.
http://www.massagetherapy.com/articles/index.php/article_id/644/
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Well I have stoped surgeries by removing trigger points. Woops, I said this thread is over for me. I didn't mean to lie, really. lol
Wilson Jordan said:You really believe that something can happen inside of the body due to outside forces. Meaning that cause is outside of the body. That justifies Surgery for sure and follows suit with that same kind of thinking. The TP is no exception to the, for the body or in the body. It is a self contained that controls for the most part what all it bring into itself. The system can be relied upon to heal itself when breakdown or interruption happens; when any situation becomes chronic it means the body's system/s are breaking down even if they are speeding up. That happens from the inside out. The treat the body from the outside by blaming breakdown on outside forces is "witchcraft".
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lol
Gary W Addis, LMT said:Wilson, you entered this discussion thread in instructor mode. Jennifer asked a question...for a referral to a website that would be of help in treating her client's fibromyalgia. Instead, you attempted to teach her yourself. Your advice, to press the adrenal points of the feet and wait, up to an hour(?) until she felt the tissue respond was both radical in concept and insufficient.
Jennifer, I should have provided you with this link earlier. I believe this is what you're seeking. Now, this approach is traditional massage therapy for FM. I don't affirm its efficacy, but the article discusses MT for the entire body of an FM patient; it is complete, and well written.
http://www.massagetherapy.com/articles/index.php/article_id/644/
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Jordan, your replies are making less sense as we go along. Don't YOU believe that something outside the body can affect the inside??? Well, what about a gunshot to the chest-- the bullet outside the body boring into the body, and likely result will be dead. Okay, that's a low blow. But relevant. I have only met two or three LMTs in forums who nonsensically argue that trigger points are not the result of dysfunction within the muscle itself. We have 7 trillion cells in our bodies; each one has its specific duties to do, and most do them for the most part independently; when it can no longer function, it commits suicide through a process called apoptosis.
For your edification, a trigger point can form even though the muscle is receiving all the nutrients the muscle cell needs. The signal comes down the nerve, enters the motor neuron of the muscle, the muscle reacts by releasing potassium and taking in sodium, and the muscle contracts. Normally, when the signal ends, the muscle will automatically relax. But sometimes the muscle cannot relax due to confusing instructions from the CNS or to damage within the sarcomere. It then is labeled a trigger point. And because the muscle doesn't follow orders, the nerve tattles to the CNS, and pain is the result.
Some witchcraft, huh?
Wilson, we should end this. Before one of us becomes personally insulting.
Wilson Jordan said:You really believe that something can happen inside of the body due to outside forces. Meaning that cause is outside of the body. That justifies Surgery for sure and follows suit with that same kind of thinking. The TP is no exception to the, for the body or in the body. It is a self contained that controls for the most part what all it bring into itself. The system can be relied upon to heal itself when breakdown or interruption happens; when any situation becomes chronic it means the body's system/s are breaking down even if they are speeding up. That happens from the inside out. The treat the body from the outside by blaming breakdown on outside forces is "witchcraft".
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Yes, I did. She did not have to take any of the information. It was not crammed at her but offer. If I'm not welcome in this room then please so and I will not appear. Just because something is different from the norm makes it different that is all not radical. The world was once flat that was radical. I offer no advice that would harm and more than sufficient information to think before just following the scripted videos about FM. So I'm not certain what your point is because you are unfamiliar with what I'm speaking about. Simply balancing the adrenals and kidneys which make all further easier for the practitioner and for the client.
Gary W Addis, LMT said:Wilson, you entered this discussion thread in instructor mode. Jennifer asked a question...for a referral to a website that would be of help in treating her client's fibromyalgia. Instead, you attempted to teach her yourself. Your advice, to press the adrenal points of the feet and wait, up to an hour(?) until she felt the tissue respond was both radical in concept and insufficient.
Jennifer, I should have provided you with this link earlier. I believe this is what you're seeking. Now, this approach is traditional massage therapy for FM. I don't affirm its efficacy, but the article discusses MT for the entire body of an FM patient; it is complete, and well written.
http://www.massagetherapy.com/articles/index.php/article_id/644/
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I never said poke and I go back to my original statement that it is impossible to massage the low back with touching that kidney and adrenal region the only factor is rather or not the practitioner can feel what is under their hands. Now what is the problem with that since it is happening already. I have never seen a massage therapist who did not rub gently or however over the spoken about areas. I find your attack way of base and ignoring the simple truth of what is already happening on practitioners tables. But more so the rigidity of your statements about something that you don't know with certain sound very familiar to Western thought. Nevertheless, the information stands until disapproved not with words but with touch and that doesn't happen, at least be willing to admit that you "might" not know if it works or for that matter what balancing the said organs do or doesn't do.
Therese Schwartz said:I'm down with that! :)
Gordon J. Wallis said:Well I think this thread is over for me. Lol. I just talk about what I do. All I know for sure is that I'm a better therapist now then I ever have been. I'm sure that goes for all of us.
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I guess I am lost since when is laying on of hands different than palpation. How can one be done without the other? You are stuck in details that are not clear to you. Oh well so be it.
Therese Schwartz said:I'm down with that! :)
Gordon J. Wallis said:Well I think this thread is over for me. Lol. I just talk about what I do. All I know for sure is that I'm a better therapist now then I ever have been. I'm sure that goes for all of us.
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