massage and bodywork professionals

a community of practitioners

A typical experience

I had a new client the other day for an 80 minute massage. I asked him if there is anything that he wanted me to know.  He told me that he suffers from a herniated disc that he has had for a few years. He has constant low back and right hip pain that at times radiates down the back of his leg to his knee. He told me that he has had two injections in his low back and has to stay on anit- inflamtory medication.  Anything to avoid surgery. The pain is always there. I asked him if he ever saw a chiropractor for his pain.  He said yes.  But the adjustments hurt his hip so bad that he could not continiue.  So here is a guy that thinks he is on the verge of surgery. I knew that there was a very strong probubllity that was not the case. The vast majority of pain people experience is nocioceptive pain( soft tissue- muscle, tendon, ligament, facia).  MDs and Chiropractors see pain as neuropathic pain( nerve pain).  With that asumption they give the wrong treatments and therapies.  Now there is no denying that at times injections and surgery is needed. Not denying that.   But most of the time - NOT.  70% to 85% of all pain comes directly from trigger points.  Anyway I showed my client a testimonial from a client that I was able to help out of a very painful condition that she had delt with for a couple of years. I showed him that testimonial because all pain has a psychological eliment too it. I wanted him to start thinking maybe he is not on the edge of surgery.  I palpated his entire back upper torso, both hips, and right leg. I found a very painful spot on his right L5 erectors.  Another very painful spot on his right greater trochantor.  A painful spot in the middle part of his lower right hamstrings.  And also a tender spot on the right spinous of L3.  I knew that if Iwas able to eliminate all those painful palaptory spots that I would most likely eliminate his pain problem.  Because a healthy body had no painful spots even with deep massage.  Ive been hunting and eliminateing trigger points for thirty years now.  He walked out of the massage room pain free. He was pain free for the first time in years. All those other professional people misdiagnosed him because they assume neuropathic pain over nocioceptive pain.  I assume the other way around.  I'm a Massage Therapist.  

Views: 33691

▶ Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on May 4, 2015 at 6:41pm

The lady in the testimonial below is no projection. She suffered needlessly for 19 months! Needlessly. Because no one knew or was able to recognize the cause of her pain. This is the whole reason for me writing in here. In your last sentence you said. TO FILL - IN THE GAPS WITH PROJECTIONS AND PSEUDO-SCIENCY TERMS AND NOTIONS DOES NOTHING TO FURTHER OUR VOCATION, ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO ALIGN THEMSELVES WITH THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY. The lady in the testimonial below had TWO trigger points... Thats it. If you want me to explain what I did on a scientific basis I can do that. There is nothing PSEUDO-SCIENCY or Bull Sh_t as to what I do. And Im a little more up on pain research then you think.. lol
Stacey L Brown said:

There is much more at work here that lends itself to the client feeling better, than massaging a soft tissue lump. Basing your outcome only on technique and projected outcomes (eg; agenda driven) certainly makes us seem all kinds of awesome, doesn't it?

Oversimplifying the human body and how it responds (eg; CNS) to touch seems to be, collectively, more about keeping us relevant and our clients happy than taking the time to fully understand what is currently being brought to light in pain science research.

The truth is much of what we think we are doing, is simply untrue, and also much of what we are doing, is unclear because we have no way of measuring these outcomes - too many variables to produce unbiased, credible findings. To fill-in the gaps with projections and pseudo-sciency terms and notions does nothing to further our vocation, especially for those who want to align themselves with the medical community.

Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on May 4, 2015 at 7:12pm
Oh, forgot to attach the testimonial. Again, nothing I do is PSEUDO-SCIENCY. Stacey please read the testimonial carefully. TWO TRIGGER POINTS !!!!. She sufferd needlessly.. Who is doing the PSEUDO-SCIENCY stuff in her case??????? Me? What I did by touching a Major Acupuncture pont ( in a specific way ) was induce an INVERSE MYOTATIC REFLEX INTO THE MUSCLE CHAIN THAT CONTAINED THE VERY PAINFUL TRIGGER POINTS THAT WERE CAUSING ALL HER PAIN. I can explain everything I do on a scientific basis.. EVERYTHING, all the way down to the MINUTIAE. Stacy you can think whatever you think about what I say in here. There are a whole bunch of people , not only you, that think Im full of it.. lol Trust me I know. But ask the lady in the testimonial what she thinks?
Attachments:
Permalink Reply by Gary W Addis, LMT on May 4, 2015 at 7:55pm

What is the purpose of therapeutic massage if not pain relief and restoration of ROM.  We are massage therapists, we do not practice internal medicine.  If the client has pancreatic cancer, I sure as hell can't feel it by palpating her skeletal muscles; therefore, an MD must make that determination and prescribe chemical poisons with the hope that the cancer will die before all the healthy tissues does. 

If the only apparent physical malady is myofascial pain and dysfunction, well, I'll do what I can to improve the lady's quality of life: I do not concern myself with things outside my scope of practice.  We are often the last resort for people in serious myofascial pain.  An MD's prescribed drugs and a TENS unit  "lends itself to the client feeling better."  But two hours later when the meds wear off the pain returns, quite often much sharper than it was when she signed in at the doctor's office. 

Stacey, the work of a massage therapist IS agenda driven.  A massage therapist serves two purposes: providing great stress relieving relaxation massages, and relieving pain.  What do you perceive your purpose is.  

Oh, BTW, I am fairly certain that I am up to snuff in current research into pain.  But feel free to post a few links if you like; if I haven't studied the papers already, I'll certainly read them.   

Stacey L Brown said:

There is much more at work here that lends itself to the client feeling better, than massaging a soft tissue lump. Basing your outcome only on technique and projected outcomes (eg; agenda driven) certainly makes us seem all kinds of awesome, doesn't it?

Oversimplifying the human body and how it responds (eg; CNS) to touch seems to be, collectively, more about keeping us relevant and our clients happy than taking the time to fully understand what is currently being brought to light in pain science research.

The truth is much of what we think we are doing, is simply untrue, and also much of what we are doing, is unclear because we have no way of measuring these outcomes - too many variables to produce unbiased, credible findings. To fill-in the gaps with projections and pseudo-sciency terms and notions does nothing to further our vocation, especially for those who want to align themselves with the medical community.

Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on May 5, 2015 at 1:48pm

Removing trigger points is well within our license. If a client comes into the spa and sees me. If they are burnt out and have no particular pain issues. They get a really good massage. If they have a pain complaint, all I do is look for trigger points ( with their permision ) and deactivate them. And if I'm able to do that, their pain problem goes away. And after 30 years I'm able to do that often. Thats all. Most other types of medical practitioners are not looking for trigger points. And I have attached comments from very smart people on this thread that say the same thing. I project out comes just so people have an idea of how I think. But gosh if I find trigger points. At this point in my career, there is a prety good chance I can make them go away. The projections are usually not off by too much. Can i help every one in pain, even TP pain.. NO. But a whole bunch of em I can. Not because Im great. Just because Im the only one looking for trigger points and deactivating them. There is this weird resistance and doubt about trigger points for some reason? But... Remember, trigger points are responsible for 70% to 85% of all pain, and involved in 90% of all pain. Again, removing trigger points is well within our license. Read the attachmement below. Its from a Book that I read many years ago. These two authers, both medical doctors, devoted almost their entire careers studying muscular pain. Anywqy I like this quotation. " What is simple, is simply seen. And what is simple is rarely understood." - Master Po from the old TV show Kung-Fu
Gary W Addis, LMT said:

What is the purpose of therapeutic massage if not pain relief and restoration of ROM.  We are massage therapists, we do not practice internal medicine.  If the client has pancreatic cancer, I sure as hell can't feel it by palpating her skeletal muscles; therefore, an MD must make that determination and prescribe chemical poisons with the hope that the cancer will die before all the healthy tissues does. 

If the only apparent physical malady is myofascial pain and dysfunction, well, I'll do what I can to improve the lady's quality of life: I do not concern myself with things outside my scope of practice.  We are often the last resort for people in serious myofascial pain.  An MD's prescribed drugs and a TENS unit  "lends itself to the client feeling better."  But two hours later when the meds wear off the pain returns, quite often much sharper than it was when she signed in at the doctor's office. 

Stacey, the work of a massage therapist IS agenda driven.  A massage therapist serves two purposes: providing great stress relieving relaxation massages, and relieving pain.  What do you perceive your purpose is.  

Oh, BTW, I am fairly certain that I am up to snuff in current research into pain.  But feel free to post a few links if you like; if I haven't studied the papers already, I'll certainly read them.   

Stacey L Brown said:

There is much more at work here that lends itself to the client feeling better, than massaging a soft tissue lump. Basing your outcome only on technique and projected outcomes (eg; agenda driven) certainly makes us seem all kinds of awesome, doesn't it?

Oversimplifying the human body and how it responds (eg; CNS) to touch seems to be, collectively, more about keeping us relevant and our clients happy than taking the time to fully understand what is currently being brought to light in pain science research.

The truth is much of what we think we are doing, is simply untrue, and also much of what we are doing, is unclear because we have no way of measuring these outcomes - too many variables to produce unbiased, credible findings. To fill-in the gaps with projections and pseudo-sciency terms and notions does nothing to further our vocation, especially for those who want to align themselves with the medical community.

Attachments:
Permalink Reply by Gary W Addis, LMT on May 6, 2015 at 10:25pm

written by Paul Ingraham who admitted that the only time he ever released a trigger point, he maintained the pressure for ten minutes.  And even he does not deny the existence of trigger points-- he even wrote a tutorial on how to find and release them.

These articles explaining that pain is all in the brain, are correct, certainly, but ignore the most salient fact.  The brain sends the pain to a muscle or cut in the skin in response to signals it receives from the injury / dysfunction.  CNS doesn't make a leg or hands throb on a whim: the CNS is responding, it is not acting out of spite.  And to make the pain go away, the site of the dysfunction must be treated.

Although I and Gordon and a few thousand others successfully find and release trigger points on a daily basis, we don't treat TPs to the exclusion of all else; we are well rounded, advanced massage therapists, skilled in a smorgasbord of therapeutic massage modalities.  We're also PDG at providing a nice, light relaxation massage, if that is the wish --and the present need-- of the client. 

We certainly don't enter the treatment room with a predetermined agenda.  Our goal is to serve the client to the best of our ability.

However, I am not bashful in asserting as absolute fact that the best, quickest, easiest on client and therapist way to relieve myofascial pain and restore full ROM is NMT-- trigger point therapy. 

Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on May 7, 2015 at 2:42am


Gordon J. Wallis said:
Uhm, Uhh.....I don't really know what to say.. My experience is this. Most people that have a painful condition tend to have painful spots on their bodies. And if I am able to remove those painful spots the client is no longer hurting. And I am now helping more people then I ever have in my entire life. So uhm? And its based on taking away those painful palpatory areas. People with no pain don't have em. Thats my reality in the part of the universe that I work in. ? I was excited today because I tried out a new technique and it worked. I figured it would after looking at an Acupuncture chart for some time... I was able to take out several very tender spots on a guys calf by touching the tissues on his Sacrum in a certain way. It was way cool. Anyway, like I said.. Clients may have to come in four, five, six or seven times in order to be tender spot free. And of course I cant help everyone. But the ones i do help had painful spots on their bodies to varying degrees when I first met them. And after a series of sessions and the tender spots are gone.. and so is their pain problem.. Thats just my experience.. I dont know what else to say. Up this thead a bit I wrote about an elderly lady that had pain from her hip to her knee I believe. She was elderly so I thought it might take seven or eight sessions if we are lucky.. But she was pain free after the third session. No more tender spots + No more pain... for her and a lot of people.. Just my experience. I only tell my truth in here. I will add an attachment that you have seen before. But it illistraights what Im saying in here..Which is my experience. One thing in that article that I agreed with was about palpation.. I dont ever try to feel a trigger point.. The client lets me know vocally or by an involentary flinch. And I don't dig or prress on the painful spot in order to make it go away. I initiate a reflex somewhere else, sometimes far away from the trigger point in order to do that. If someone has pain spots and they hurt.. if I'm able to make those pain spots go away Thats just my experience. Oh, hum, also.. My definition of a trigger point is a very broad one.. Any painful spot on the body anywhere, i often call a trigger point. Hm I was going to attach a testimonial, but i dont see the option now. lol
Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on May 7, 2015 at 3:09am
To sum it up.. I have a simple way of doing things. I see the body in a simple way. If a client comes in hurting, and I find painful spots on their body. 95% of the time, if I'm able to make those tender spots go away, their pain goes away. I have a lot of ways to make tender painful points on the body go away. Not always an easy process. but my goals are simple.. Make the painful spots go away and you get clinical results. Like the client does not hurt anymore. You have seen this testimonial before. Just to illistraight that what Im saying, I did with her. Im very excited about going to work every day.
Attachments:
Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on May 7, 2015 at 3:17am
TRUE REFINEMENT SEEKS SIMPLICITY --" The height of cultivation runs to simplicity. Halfway cultivation runs to ornimentation." - Bruce Lee.....There are 650 skeletal muscles in the human body, at least...For me there are only 11 muscles in the entire body. Makes things a lot easier ( for me ). . Not near as complicated. I'm very excieted about going to work.
Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on May 7, 2015 at 4:56am
I'm helping more people in my life now then ever before, because it's a lot easier for me to make the painful spots go away now. That's all. It's as simple as that. I'm really excited to go to work. Pretty much every day I'm meeting someone that I can help out of pain. I had not the skill set in the past.
Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on May 7, 2015 at 12:43pm
Stacey, I have a question for you. What would you do if you had a new client come in that told you she has Sciatica, and that she hurts from her left hip down to her knee. It hurts so bad that it often wakes her up at night, and she has to sleep on her right side because it hurts to sleep on her left side. She tried Physical therapy for two months but it didnt help , and her pain is getting worse now. She has had it for six months. What would your approach be? I think everyone here knows what I would do.. I'm just asking you this question, because I really don't know what you are trying to tell me?
Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on May 11, 2015 at 1:04pm
Lots of tender spots have been deactivated sense I last comented in here.. I will just post an attachment that backs up what I keep saying about exercise and tender spots. My truth is that the client should stop all exercise and stretching while they are going through trigger point work.
Attachments:
Permalink Reply by Gordon J. Wallis on May 13, 2015 at 12:07am
They have known about painful points in the muscles for a long time. I would imagine for many centuries. But here is a reference from 1824.
Attachments:

▶ Reply to Discussion

RSS

© 2024   Created by ABMP.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service

Sign in to chat!