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Relationships and Professional Boundaries With Clients?
Are ‘Professional Boundaries’ hurting your massage business?
When do our boundaries come in to play with the relationships we have built with our massage clients?
What guidelines do YOU follow or teach?
It’s all about professional…
…but how far do we take it??
I was in the retail business for over twenty years.
I had professional relationships. Very professional relationships with some of the top leaders in the Las Vegas community.
I still had dinner with them.
We still went and visited shows in Las Vegas and the venue was purely social.
I’ve helped people move from one house to another, consoled them on their businesses, etc., etc.
Yet, I was still professional.
I can hear the next comment coming from a mile away….
“But Kris, you’re in Las Vegas. Isn’t it much more relaxed and social there?”
Not as a professional massage therapist. (As opposed to the local rub and tugs that abound.)
Business is business.
Of course massage therapy is a ‘hands-on’ business. It is more personal than retail, we touch people and lather them up in oils!
The point I’m making is this:
What is your mindset in regards to your beliefs about boundaries and relationships? What were you taught (or are teaching) from massage school that makes absolutely no sense??
When a client speaks to you, do you quickly review their comments in your mind and determine the appropriate response? Or, do you just automatically tune them out because you assume they are being inappropriate?
Our beliefs, morals and values determine our reactions.
What boundary do you have in place that is keeping you from attracting new clients?
That is keeping you from having your existing clients schedule more often with you?
Let me make this clear:
I am NOT advocating ANY inappropriate behavior. We all know what inappropriate behavior is.
Just don’t prematurely flatter yourself and shut-down when a client gives you a wink and a nod. Some people are more personable than others. Some act differently, some VERY differently, to our own personal beliefs (or those beliefs that were instilled in us at massage school.)
Sorry sorry, love me love me, but not everyone who is kind or shows a bit of emotion wants to take advantage of you or have you perform something inappropriate to them.
How often is someone really inappropriate anyway? IF this has happened to you, has it jaded how you view everyone else?
Once again, professional is professional, yet I’ve become a good friend with most of my clients. We have strong relationships.
I’d really like your opinions on this, because somewhere it seems I missed the boat ;)
I know what's worked for me: becoming very perceptive to the Intent behind the comment or action. I quickly determine where it's heading and handle it right then.
Where do YOU draw the line? Where’s the line and how did you determine (the line) between a professional relationship and crossing a professional boundary?
Kris
Views: 179
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Darcy Neibaur on
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Well where I work, the only acceptable contact other than the massage between therapist and client is a handshake. Since May I have had 3 clients initiate hugs. I have hugged them back and will continue as long as they initiate the hug. 2 were female clients and one was a male client. He hugged me in front of his wife after a couples massage. I feel all the hugs are given out of gratitude and I do not see anything wrong with them. So far my employer has not said anything to me regarding the hugs.
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Permalink Reply by Julie Onofrio on
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Kris, I think you are kind of all over the place with this post and am not quite sure what you are asking...
Being a massage therapist is of course quite different from a retail business. Because you are touching people in a state of undress (even though they are covered) it creates an imbalance of power - people come to you for help with stress, pain or whatever. They look to you for answers. Because of this power differential people are very likely to relate to you as a parent figure (transference). It will bring up all sorts of things for people - conscious and unconscious things. Having boundaries is actually what allows/helps people to heal. The boundaries you create are what keeps you safe and the client safe - however you want to define safe. It is beyond just physical safety.
If you are talking about becoming friends with clients - only you can decide what is right for you. It depends on the type of work you do and what you want to create on the table. Do you see yourself as fixing or healing are really the two big ways of working with people. Fixing is really more about you than the client. Fixing people makes massage therapists feel good about themselves. We are taught to fix in massage school. There really isn't enough time to teach much else.
When you become friends with clients the biggest thing to ask yourself is what need am I getting met through this relationship that I am not or could be getting met elsewhere in your life. It is usually a need for appreciation etc or something along those lines. When we get those needs met through client interactions it really puts the focus on us and takes attention away from the client but it happens mostly unconsciously.
When working with massage therapists as their supervisor I use this questionnaire to make a deeper inquiry about why they help
http://thebodyworker.com/ethicshowdoyouhelp.htm
I also have written some on transference
http://thebodyworker.com/massage_blog/the-therapeutic-relationship-...
http://thebodyworker.com/massage_blog/transference-for-massage-ther...
What boundary do you have in place that is keeping you from attracting clients - are you asking about if you have a boundary that you are not going to be friends with clients and if that is keeping clients from being clients?
Attracting clients is about knowing your ideal client and sticking too it. I turned away 4 clients today all nice people but varying situations made them fall outside of my ideal client. When I set that boundary it is sometimes hard since I only have 3 people scheduled tomorrow but I know I am much happier in the end and when I stick to my boundaries and stay clear I am busier than ever. I teach massage therapists that the clearer they get with their boundaries the more successful and happier they will be.
Becoming friends with clients isn't wrong or right though. I am friends with a few clients but not really close as in I might see them socially for lunch or something every so often and I have one client I am helping with an sbi site. The problems begin when they then want extra favors - special scheduling or discounts or want you to lie to an ins. company (I had that once!)
I am not sure what you are referring to with the statement about the wink or nod from a client..
Julie Onofrio
www.thebodyworker.com
www.massage-career-guides.com -
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Permalink Reply by Las Vegas Massage In Summerlin on
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Hey Julie!
Thanks for the reply.
I'm going to copy and my replies at this time.
Julie: Kris, I think you are kind of all over the place with this post and am not quite sure what you are asking...
Kris: Yes, this was done for a reason. Perhaps to get some opinions in from 'all over the place.'
Julie: Having boundaries is actually what allows/helps people to heal.
Kris: Can you explain this further please?
Julie: If you are talking about becoming friends with clients - only you can decide what is right for you. It depends on the type of work you do and what you want to create on the table. Do you see yourself as fixing or healing are really the two big ways of working with people. Fixing is really more about you than the client. Fixing people makes massage therapists feel good about themselves. We are taught to fix in massage school. There really isn't enough time to teach much else.
Kris: I'm talking becoming friends, building relationships and providing quality massage. I really can't relate to this paragraph of yours above. How are you jumping from 'becoming friends' to the type of work I do on the table? You are saying that if a client of mine is a friend, I'm either fixing or healing?
Julie: When you become friends with clients the biggest thing to ask yourself is what need am I getting met through this relationship that I am not or could be getting met elsewhere in your life. It is usually a need for appreciation etc or something along those lines. When we get those needs met through client interactions it really puts the focus on us and takes attention away from the client but it happens mostly unconsciously.
Kris: This is an interesting comment. Are you making the assumption that I'm seeking out their friendship? Could be, as you are correct, I was vague in my post. I have become friends with my clients, the one taking the initiative, but mostly they are looking for someone to listen, to understand them, and that is done via building relationships. People are people - not numbers. They have goals, dreams and desires. They are mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, grandmothers, and grandfather's to someone that loves them. They are not a number, but real people.
I'm looking at both sides of the coin here. Clients look to me for massage, for whatever reason. On the 'exit interview' the client shares their area of expertise with me. (Due to the fact that we've build a relationship.) If this then pertains to me, I may take them up on their offer. I suppose I must state that most of my clients are professional business people. I respect them and show interest in whatever field they are involved in. Then, guess what? I'm the one seeking their advice just as they did when they came to me for a massage.
In regards to your links to transference, here's my two cents worth, as stated on other venues:
Concerning massage, just like most anything else, there is body action of some kind. Of course that has to be. I must raise my arms and place my hands on my partner to practice massage. But what is my body action an expression of? That's the question.
Is it an expression of my own small mind, trying to do something? Or is it an expression of the deeper sense of unity? Is it creating goodness out of badness, when someone is ill, or in a weakened condition, or injured? Do I think that there is something wrong, and I need to fix it?
This is seeing only the relative world. This is seeing only chaos, where in fact there is perfect order. If I don't see the order, then the order does not influence the other person. The other person cannot see the order, balance, harmonious universe, because of their temporary condition. If I don't see perfection, then the client also doesn't see that. When someone feels pain, there is attachment to that area of the mind/body. So one might think that, if you are attached, in some sense your mind is strong there. But it is just very stuck there. Attachment is weakness. If my mind is strong, it is free and not stuck. Mind is weak there in that sore place, so if I touch there with a free mind, then I can release this attachment.
So the nature of what transpires between us, the quality or flavor of what transpires between us, carries the quality, flavor, or taste of the source of that. If it comes from my small mind, then it carries that flavor; that characteristic. It is not that it is nothing, in this case, but it's limited. It's not limitless. It is not infinite. It's finite.
So what is the point of all that? It is very important for me to begin to truly understand how it is that energy pervades everything. It is everything there is. So if I think, "I am going to move energy from me to you", this is limited thinking and a bit of a mistake. Because how can that happen? It's already there.
Julie: What boundary do you have in place that is keeping you from attracting clients - are you asking about if you have a boundary that you are not going to be friends with clients and if that is keeping clients from being clients?
Kris: I'm asking what kind of preconceived notions anyone has in regards to their boundaries. I dislike the term boundaries as it implies a barrier. Implies is the keyword. I like boundaries, but it seems this has been turned into barriers.
Julie: Attracting clients is about knowing your ideal client and sticking too it. I turned away 4 clients today all nice people but varying situations made them fall outside of my ideal client. When I set that boundary it is sometimes hard since I only have 3 people scheduled tomorrow but I know I am much happier in the end and when I stick to my boundaries and stay clear I am busier than ever. I teach massage therapists that the clearer they get with their boundaries the more successful and happier they will be.
Kris: Ok, would you define your ideal client? Also, what implied boundary keeps those you turn away from becoming an ideal client? Can you create your ideal client or do they already fit into a specific catagory? Could you define your boundaries? What are they that keeps you busier than ever?
Julie: Becoming friends with clients isn't wrong or right though.
Kris: Agreed. I don't see any of this as right or wrong.
Julie: I am friends with a few clients but not really close as in I might see them socially for lunch or something every so often and I have one client I am helping with an sbi site.
Kris: Now perhaps I'm going out on a limb here, but I'd like to mention this anyway.
It's a known fact that you are an sbi expert. (Im my eyes, anyway, as well as the results you have earned.) Yet, here's the 'transference' I'm picking up on in regards to your comment: You assist those that fit your agenda. You are an expert in massage and in creating websites with high traffic. What about the clients and the areas they are experts in? Are we listening to them?
I guess that's the point I'm attempting to make in regards to building and developing relationships. It's not all about 'me,' the massage therapist and what I do for them. That's a part of it, but not the entire picture. I'm talking about the meetings I have with perspective clients prior to any massage. I'm talking about the conversations we have after the massage session. I do business with many clients in their area of expertise. At that point I listen to them as a professional, just as they listed to me in regards to massage.
Julie: The problems begin when they then want extra favors - special scheduling or discounts or want you to lie to an ins. company (I had that once!)
Kris: This doesn't occur with me as I've (once again) built a professional relationship. If we have respect for each other, it's just not going to happen. Sure, we do favors for each other.
The 'wink and a nod' comment was in reference to human nature. People are people. I hear comments all the time from men and women. The point was that when people are in compromising situations they DO make comments and it's how we interpret them that counts.
Kris -
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Kris I always enjoy your post. Thank you for your sharings. I find yours to be the most healthy, and postivie of most.
Kris Kelley said:Hey Julie!
Thanks for the reply.
I'm going to copy and my replies at this time.
Julie: Kris, I think you are kind of all over the place with this post and am not quite sure what you are asking...
Kris: Yes, this was done for a reason. Perhaps to get some opinions in from 'all over the place.'
Julie: Having boundaries is actually what allows/helps people to heal.
Kris: Can you explain this further please?
Julie: If you are talking about becoming friends with clients - only you can decide what is right for you. It depends on the type of work you do and what you want to create on the table. Do you see yourself as fixing or healing are really the two big ways of working with people. Fixing is really more about you than the client. Fixing people makes massage therapists feel good about themselves. We are taught to fix in massage school. There really isn't enough time to teach much else.
Kris: I'm talking becoming friends, building relationships and providing quality massage. I really can't relate to this paragraph of yours above. How are you jumping from 'becoming friends' to the type of work I do on the table? You are saying that if a client of mine is a friend, I'm either fixing or healing?
Julie: When you become friends with clients the biggest thing to ask yourself is what need am I getting met through this relationship that I am not or could be getting met elsewhere in your life. It is usually a need for appreciation etc or something along those lines. When we get those needs met through client interactions it really puts the focus on us and takes attention away from the client but it happens mostly unconsciously.
Kris: This is an interesting comment. Are you making the assumption that I'm seeking out their friendship? Could be, as you are correct, I was vague in my post. I have become friends with my clients, the one taking the initiative, but mostly they are looking for someone to listen, to understand them, and that is done via building relationships. People are people - not numbers. They have goals, dreams and desires. They are mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, grandmothers, and grandfather's to someone that loves them. They are not a number, but real people.
I'm looking at both sides of the coin here. Clients look to me for massage, for whatever reason. On the 'exit interview' the client shares their area of expertise with me. (Due to the fact that we've build a relationship.) If this then pertains to me, I may take them up on their offer. I suppose I must state that most of my clients are professional business people. I respect them and show interest in whatever field they are involved in. Then, guess what? I'm the one seeking their advice just as they did when they came to me for a massage.
In regards to your links to transference, here's my two cents worth, as stated on other venues:
Concerning massage, just like most anything else, there is body action of some kind. Of course that has to be. I must raise my arms and place my hands on my partner to practice massage. But what is my body action an expression of? That's the question.
Is it an expression of my own small mind, trying to do something? Or is it an expression of the deeper sense of unity? Is it creating goodness out of badness, when someone is ill, or in a weakened condition, or injured? Do I think that there is something wrong, and I need to fix it?
This is seeing only the relative world. This is seeing only chaos, where in fact there is perfect order. If I don't see the order, then the order does not influence the other person. The other person cannot see the order, balance, harmonious universe, because of their temporary condition. If I don't see perfection, then the client also doesn't see that. When someone feels pain, there is attachment to that area of the mind/body. So one might think that, if you are attached, in some sense your mind is strong there. But it is just very stuck there. Attachment is weakness. If my mind is strong, it is free and not stuck. Mind is weak there in that sore place, so if I touch there with a free mind, then I can release this attachment.
So the nature of what transpires between us, the quality or flavor of what transpires between us, carries the quality, flavor, or taste of the source of that. If it comes from my small mind, then it carries that flavor; that characteristic. It is not that it is nothing, in this case, but it's limited. It's not limitless. It is not infinite. It's finite.
So what is the point of all that? It is very important for me to begin to truly understand how it is that energy pervades everything. It is everything there is. So if I think, "I am going to move energy from me to you", this is limited thinking and a bit of a mistake. Because how can that happen? It's already there.
Julie: What boundary do you have in place that is keeping you from attracting clients - are you asking about if you have a boundary that you are not going to be friends with clients and if that is keeping clients from being clients?
Kris: I'm asking what kind of preconceived notions anyone has in regards to their boundaries. I dislike the term boundaries as it implies a barrier. Implies is the keyword. I like boundaries, but it seems this has been turned into barriers.
Julie: Attracting clients is about knowing your ideal client and sticking too it. I turned away 4 clients today all nice people but varying situations made them fall outside of my ideal client. When I set that boundary it is sometimes hard since I only have 3 people scheduled tomorrow but I know I am much happier in the end and when I stick to my boundaries and stay clear I am busier than ever. I teach massage therapists that the clearer they get with their boundaries the more successful and happier they will be.
Kris: Ok, would you define your ideal client? Also, what implied boundary keeps those you turn away from becoming an ideal client? Can you create your ideal client or do they already fit into a specific catagory? Could you define your boundaries? What are they that keeps you busier than ever?
Julie: Becoming friends with clients isn't wrong or right though.
Kris: Agreed. I don't see any of this as right or wrong.
Julie: I am friends with a few clients but not really close as in I might see them socially for lunch or something every so often and I have one client I am helping with an sbi site.
Kris: Now perhaps I'm going out on a limb here, but I'd like to mention this anyway.
It's a known fact that you are an sbi expert. (Im my eyes, anyway, as well as the results you have earned.) Yet, here's the 'transference' I'm picking up on in regards to your comment: You assist those that fit your agenda. You are an expert in massage and in creating websites with high traffic. What about the clients and the areas they are experts in? Are we listening to them?
I guess that's the point I'm attempting to make in regards to building and developing relationships. It's not all about 'me,' the massage therapist and what I do for them. That's a part of it, but not the entire picture. I'm talking about the meetings I have with perspective clients prior to any massage. I'm talking about the conversations we have after the massage session. I do business with many clients in their area of expertise. At that point I listen to them as a professional, just as they listed to me in regards to massage.
Julie: The problems begin when they then want extra favors - special scheduling or discounts or want you to lie to an ins. company (I had that once!)
Kris: This doesn't occur with me as I've (once again) built a professional relationship. If we have respect for each other, it's just not going to happen. Sure, we do favors for each other.
The 'wink and a nod' comment was in reference to human nature. People are people. I hear comments all the time from men and women. The point was that when people are in compromising situations they DO make comments and it's how we interpret them that counts.
Kris -
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Thanks Darcy for the kind words!
I replied to you as well on the MWF mailing list, but haven't seen a reply come through yet. Perhaps it's moderated.
I may not have been logged-in under ther correct e-mail addy as well...
If it's lost, I'll post back to you tomorrow morn ;)
Kris -
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The clearer you boundaries especially around becoming friends with clients the more potential there is for healing because people have a safe place to come - your massage room. When you become friends with clients it confuses the relationship no matter how professional you think it may be. No matter what you do there will always be the dynamic that you are the person of power. The thing is that this whole thing really happens unconsciously. If you are finding that you are becoming friends with many of your clients I really think something is out of balance. It isn't professional to create social relationships out of a massage therapist/client relationship if you want to keep the relationship professional - which means making the session and relationship all about the client which is what we are paid for.
When you become friends with one or two clients it isn't such a big deal but still something to look at in supervision. When you are becoming friends with most of your clients as you said you were - it should send off warning lights.
People do have real lives and things they share but that does not mean you have to be close personal friends with them.
You don't have to be friends outside the massage office to build a quality relationship with a client. In fact becoming friends jeopardizes the massage relationship. You just have to weigh the risks like my helping the client with sbi- he has been a client for over 15 years and if sbi doesn't work for him I risk him being mad at me or being out the money for sbi etc and I am putting the relationship at risk but I know him well enough to take that risk.
What I am talking about with fixing or healing is to take a look at what you want to create on your table and how becoming friends could (and it will - it is just a matter of time) influence your work and sessions. Having boundaries keeps the work focused on them and only them. They are there for a massage and only a massage.
When you start asking them for help in their area of expertise, it becomes about you. So you then have the challenge of working on someone and they are wondering how it is going for you and whatever thing they were helping you with. It becomes about you and not them - or that is the challenge at least.
I don't follow you about the 'what is my body action an expression of?'. It doesn't have anything to do with transference. What you do - massage/touch is perceived by each person in ways you can not even know or imagine. People don't even really know what it is doing.
Why do you have to see the "order" in order to have it be an influence on someone else???? You mind has very little to do with how something releases or not. You can't release anything - only the client can do that.
Occasionally I will have slow periods. It is usually only because I get too tired or want to work on my sites or something else comes up. It is only my thoughts and desires that get in the way of attracting my ideal client. To get out of my slow period all I usually do is to start thinking about all the things that I will do - call old clients, call doctors or write a newsletter. The only thing that keeps clients way is really your beliefs about success, work , money.
Boundaries are not just barriers. Boundaries are what keep you and your client safe. They are what will keep you from burning out.
My ideal client shows up on time and don't miss appts, pays cash/check, doesn't forget their checkbook every week, if it's ins. they have higher paying insurance and no complicated billing, they value massage and come in once a week or twice a week willingly, they don't complain when I raise my rates $5, if ins. client they come in with a problem and work to resolve it (many try to get ins. to cover maintenance massage which it doesn't which has now become one of my pet peeves), they understand the deeper effects of massage on their health like keeping in touch with themselves, they work with psychologists to talk through the things that come up in massage sessions, they seek to uncover deeper parts of themselves and become more conscious....
When I work on people who are less than my ideal client I don't do my best work. It drains my energy rather than inspires me. The people I turned away yesterday were mainly difficult ins. billing cases and one person who wanted maintenance massage and one cash paying client who was unable to change his day to accommodate a change in my schedule. When I am working on my ideal client I am just much happier overall and better off financially so I don't have to worry about paying the bills!
Some other boundaries that I have implemented that made radical changes in my practice was to stop giving advice to people and just focus on listening. I used to always talk more to people during their session and now I just shut up and listen. The results are dramatic really.
I am still not sure what you are referring to with the wink and nod - if you are talking about dating clients that is a whole other thing. It is actually illegal here in WA and I wish it were that way in all states for massage therapists.
Julie -
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So Julie are you an example of your ideal Client? Just wondering. I am an example of your ideal client. We attract what we are. Expectations can be a disappointment
Julie Onofrio said:The clearer you boundaries especially around becoming friends with clients the more potential there is for healing because people have a safe place to come - your massage room. When you become friends with clients it confuses the relationship no matter how professional you think it may be. No matter what you do there will always be the dynamic that you are the person of power. The thing is that this whole thing really happens unconsciously. If you are finding that you are becoming friends with many of your clients I really think something is out of balance. It isn't professional to create social relationships out of a massage therapist/client relationship if you want to keep the relationship professional - which means making the session and relationship all about the client which is what we are paid for.
When you become friends with one or two clients it isn't such a big deal but still something to look at in supervision. When you are becoming friends with most of your clients as you said you were - it should send off warning lights.
People do have real lives and things they share but that does not mean you have to be close personal friends with them.
You don't have to be friends outside the massage office to build a quality relationship with a client. In fact becoming friends jeopardizes the massage relationship. You just have to weigh the risks like my helping the client with sbi- he has been a client for over 15 years and if sbi doesn't work for him I risk him being mad at me or being out the money for sbi etc and I am putting the relationship at risk but I know him well enough to take that risk.
What I am talking about with fixing or healing is to take a look at what you want to create on your table and how becoming friends could (and it will - it is just a matter of time) influence your work and sessions. Having boundaries keeps the work focused on them and only them. They are there for a massage and only a massage.
When you start asking them for help in their area of expertise, it becomes about you. So you then have the challenge of working on someone and they are wondering how it is going for you and whatever thing they were helping you with. It becomes about you and not them - or that is the challenge at least.
I don't follow you about the 'what is my body action an expression of?'. It doesn't have anything to do with transference. What you do - massage/touch is perceived by each person in ways you can not even know or imagine. People don't even really know what it is doing.
Why do you have to see the "order" in order to have it be an influence on someone else???? You mind has very little to do with how something releases or not. You can't release anything - only the client can do that.
Occasionally I will have slow periods. It is usually only because I get too tired or want to work on my sites or something else comes up. It is only my thoughts and desires that get in the way of attracting my ideal client. To get out of my slow period all I usually do is to start thinking about all the things that I will do - call old clients, call doctors or write a newsletter. The only thing that keeps clients way is really your beliefs about success, work , money.
Boundaries are not just barriers. Boundaries are what keep you and your client safe. They are what will keep you from burning out.
My ideal client shows up on time and don't miss appts, pays cash/check, doesn't forget their checkbook every week, if it's ins. they have higher paying insurance and no complicated billing, they value massage and come in once a week or twice a week willingly, they don't complain when I raise my rates $5, if ins. client they come in with a problem and work to resolve it (many try to get ins. to cover maintenance massage which it doesn't which has now become one of my pet peeves), they understand the deeper effects of massage on their health like keeping in touch with themselves, they work with psychologists to talk through the things that come up in massage sessions, they seek to uncover deeper parts of themselves and become more conscious....
When I work on people who are less than my ideal client I don't do my best work. It drains my energy rather than inspires me. The people I turned away yesterday were mainly difficult ins. billing cases and one person who wanted maintenance massage and one cash paying client who was unable to change his day to accommodate a change in my schedule. When I am working on my ideal client I am just much happier overall and better off financially so I don't have to worry about paying the bills!
Some other boundaries that I have implemented that made radical changes in my practice was to stop giving advice to people and just focus on listening. I used to always talk more to people during their session and now I just shut up and listen. The results are dramatic really.
I am still not sure what you are referring to with the wink and nod - if you are talking about dating clients that is a whole other thing. It is actually illegal here in WA and I wish it were that way in all states for massage therapists.
Julie -
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For the most part...
You attract what you unconsciously believe and think.
Ideal clients have nothing to do with expectations. Knowing who your ideal client is you can then create your marketing plans and make decisions that reflect your values creating a stronger business.
Julie
Darcy Neibaur said:So Julie are you an example of your ideal Client? Just wondering. I am an example of your ideal client. We attract what we are. Expectations can be a disappointment
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Hi Julie!
Thank you again for your reply.
Let me preface my comments to you with a bit of clarification.
First, my original post didn't just come 'out of the blue,' nor was I looking for discussion on this topic.
The topic came up from a couple of comments I received on Facebook in regards to my e-book. MT's who purchased my e-book were looking for assistance in contacting other on Facebook. They mentioned relationships and professional boundaries to me and how that affected the interaction with people.
Since it's tough to answer a question when you really don't know what the question is, I asked for further clarification. To make a long story shorter, none of them really had a question or a valid concern. It was just this 'professional boundary' idea that was planted in their heads in massage school (or wherever) that held them up.
This was concerning to me, and why I decided to write a post on it.
Here's another example from last week.
I was having lunch with a friend of mine, another MT. She's been around for many years, 10-12 as a MT. We were having discussions with some other folks that were seated close to us. Just the normal chit chat. When the conversation turned to her and what it is she did, I'll be kind in saying that she didn't express herself well. I'm a blabber mouth and took control of the situation, and got my friend a new client.
How does this relate?
I asked my friend after lunch why she had such a difficult time expressing herself. Again, to make a long conversation shorter, she has all these notions rolling around in her head in regards to what she is, what she does, how to present herself, how to be a professional in front of others, what her boundaries are and if she was crossing them in a social situation, etc., etc.
I'm like, "Just be a nice person. Speak from your heart. Listen without an agenda."
This is the point I'm making: All the baggage we carry around with these images in our head of what we are, who we are, what we do, how we're supposed to interact with people, etc., etc.
It's never natural when we attempt to present an image, and not who we are. People see right through this, and in our line of work it's all about trust. If you have morals, values and some common sense, this works much better than attempting to follow some 'rules' that you clearly don't understand or were explained poorly.
I'd also like to state that I'm not viewing our discussion as right vs. wrong. If you're doing great, great! I know I'm doing great, and whatever it is I'm doing is working out right fine for me.
It's just concerning to me to see others that are not so successful; and, when they show me what they're doing, it's just a bit scary. This, to me, is similar to when we're in massage school. Do you take the strokes and techniques you were shown straight to your clients, or do you create your own 'style?' Hopefully, you've created your own routine. I see this discussion as one in the same as creating your own technique. Do you taper your technique (perhaps just a bit) to each client’s body? Of course. Why can't we do that when communicating with clients??
Perhaps it's not the professional boundaries that are the issue, but the image of professional boundaries that are planted in MT's heads and not explained very well. I'm wondering if any massage schools have role playing; how to talk to a prospective client. A little real life situation as opposed to spewing out pages of, "Don't do this and don't do that."
OK, on to the show!
Julie: The clearer you boundaries especially around becoming friends with clients the more potential there is for healing because people have a safe place to come - your massage room.
Kris: First, I need to clarify my situation a bit further, once again. I perform outcall in client’s homes. There are rules and regulations and licenses for this and that, but I won't get in to that. So, on that note, they are already safe in their own home. Also, I always have a meeting with any new clients prior to a massage. I'm a man asking to be invited into another’s home. They have to meet me and trust me. In regards to when you mention healing, let me state my case on this. I'm not a healer or a fixer. You've mentioned both before, yet to me they are one in the same. The body heals and fixes itself. I may be the conduit that allows this to happen, but I'm certainly not healing or fixing anyone. If you are a healer or fixer, nice. I don't see it this way. We'll have to agree to disagree ;)
Julie: When you become friends with clients it confuses the relationship no matter how professional you think it may be.
Kris: If this works for you, great! I don't see it this way at all. Friends trust friends and elimanates any confusion. Now, how 'friendly' we become may be another topic. Perhaps I'll touch on that down below, if I remember ;)
Julie: No matter what you do there will always be the dynamic that you are the person of power.
Kris: I don't understand this. In my situation I'm the person of power? In your situation you are the person of power? All therapists are in control? IMHO, in the massage session we as therapists are in control. On a side note, I really don't like the use of the word power. I prefer to say we're in control of the massage session. Power, to me, once again, is a bit egoistic. "I'm the one with the power. I'm going to do this to you!" I don't see it that way. Refer to previous post for clarification ;) We're guiding energy, not the source of it.
Julie: The thing is that this whole thing really happens unconsciously. If you are finding that you are becoming friends with many of your clients I really think something is out of balance. It isn't professional to create social relationships out of a massage therapist/client relationship if you want to keep the relationship professional - which means making the session and relationship all about the client which is what we are paid for.
Kris: I'll agree with the unconscious aspect. With strong relationships comes more trust unconsciously. To get down to the nitty gritty, I supposed we'd have to define 'social relationships.' If one assumes all my clients are my best friends and we sit around drinking pints at the local pub, then that assumption is incorrect. Of course it's all about the client. Did I state otherwise? If I was vague, let me clear this up: In the massage, I'm in control. I'm leading the way. The massage session is about massage, not about the clients......whatever. It seems there's a blurry line here about the actual massage session and what transpires before or after the massage. Prior to the massage and after the massage, I listen to my clients in regards to whatever they want to discuss. Can these discussions affect the massage session? Certainly. That's why they are professional and up-beat. Professional and Friend are not the opposites of each other.
Julie: When you become friends with one or two clients it isn't such a big deal but still something to look at in supervision.
Kris: Uh, Ok. Where does one draw the line here?? This comment seems really vague to me. If I have only 1-2 clients and am friends with all them, then what? What if I have hundreds of clients that perhaps only see me on a monthly basis? Does this percentage then go up, and I can be friends with dozens of people? Or is it still only 1-2?
Julie: When you are becoming friends with most of your clients as you said you were - it should send off warning lights.
Kris: Why? Once again, we're in vague territory here. We'll have to define 'friend.' A friend to me is someone I have build and have developed a strong relationship with. It doesn't mean that we're having dinner together, nightly. If your method has worked out for you, once again, great! My method has worked out great for me. Now what? What about the therapists that are new, or don't have many clients? What advice can we share with them? This is what I'm getting at...
Julie: People do have real lives and things they share but that does not mean you have to be close personal friends with them.
Kris: Agreed....to a certain extent. Define, 'close personal friend.'
Here's a comment from a client last night, as I read your reply, and outlined the discussion to her. This was after the massage session, just shooting the breeze. (Uh O. To the professional boundary police, is it ok to shoot the breeze with clients after the massage session?? Just kidding. ;)) She commented:
"I don't see anything wrong with us being friends. What's wrong with this? You talk, I listen. I talk, you listen. I trust you and our massages go just fine. You know what really bugs me? The rest of the professionals out there. Do you realize that in the last 5 years and a dozen visits to my doctor, we're never even said more than a dozen words to each other? He's so busy playing the role that he won't even listen to me and what I have to say. About what's wrong with me or anything else. It would be nice if he asked me how my morning was going or a quick comment in regards to anything. It’s just good customer service."
We're friends.
Now, perhaps since I perform outcall I have the time or the inclination to be more personable than working at a spa or someone else. I dunno....
Julie: You don't have to be friends outside the massage office to build a quality relationship with a client. In fact becoming friends jeopardizes the massage relationship.
Kris: True, on the first part, and many clients aren't friends. To your second line, not true, for me.
Becoming friends brings me a huge amount of referrals. Also, none of my 'friend-clients' would ever think of going to another MT. Another example:
When Massage Envy entered the Las Vegas market several years ago, it affected the spa and MT market. Many were concerned with losing clients to the 'cheap' counterpart. I even discussed this with clients. Was it an issue? Not at all. They know me, trust me. It's like there's an iron fence around them. They don't betray me because we've built a relationship. Per the comment from my homepage: The people who make a difference in your life are not the ones with the most credentials, the most money, or the most awards. They are the ones that care. ....and to care about someone you have to have a relationship with them.
Julie: You just have to weigh the risks like my helping the client with sbi- he has been a client for over 15 years and if sbi doesn't work for him I risk him being mad at me or being out the money for sbi etc and I am putting the relationship at risk but I know him well enough to take that risk.
Kris: Got that right. But you know what? Life is full of risk. And if we aren't 'taking any risks' or making any mistakes, we're not doing much. This is what I see the most: Lack of ANY action.
When I began in this market seven years ago from scratch, those that 'guided' me weren't very successful. They were all full of this or that, bla, bla, bla. Why would I want to listen to them? As one of my buddies told me, look at your five closest friends. You probably make, on average, the same as they do. Well, if most of my friends are making 30k per year, do I really want their advice if I want to make 100k a year? Guess what I did? Went and found millionaires and picked their brain.
Yup, life is full of risk. So take one! Step outside the box and do something. Anything. (This is just a general comment, not directed to you ;))
Julie: What I am talking about with fixing or healing is to take a look at what you want to create on your table and how becoming friends could (and it will - it is just a matter of time) influence your work and sessions. Having boundaries keeps the work focused on them and only them. They are there for a massage and only a massage.
Kris: You say 'what you want to create,' yet then say it's all about them. ??
Of course this is about them. It's all about them. Again, I'm unsure I ever said it wasn't about them. Once again, let's look at the bigger picture. The massage session is about massage, no doubt about it. I'm expanding this out, to the conversation prior to the massage and after the massage. Client’s lives don't hinge on a massage. Yes, this is what we do, but there's more to life than a massage session. Of course a massage is why they are here to see us, true. I'm talking about listening to a friend prior to a massage and after a massage. People want to talk and have others listen to them. I'm not saying become a life coach or a personal trainer or a counselor or whatnot to our clients anymore than I do this with people who are not massage clients. Just listen without an agenda. If the client wants to discuss their real estate business, am I wrong in listening to them?? Yea, some even try to do this during the session. I tell them to be quiet. Being friends isn't all about love and kisses ;)
Julie: When you start asking them for help in their area of expertise, it becomes about you. So you then have the challenge of working on someone and they are wondering how it is going for you and whatever thing they were helping you with. It becomes about you and not them - or that is the challenge at least.
Kris: People and clients think what they think, regardless of if the are a friend or not. I haven't seen what you mention here. ....and I'm talking about clients I've had for years now. Once again, just to be clear, if we have discussion, it's prior to the massage or after the massage. I'm not whispering in their ear, during the session, which stocks on the market are going to make me rich ;) I could go over forever on this one, but this is getting pretty long, so I'll stop here ;)
Well, let me make one point crystal clear that you've now mentioned several times. Yes, it is all about them. It's always about them. I just go about it differently than you do.
Julie: I don't follow you about the 'what is my body action an expression of?'. It doesn't have anything to do with transference. What you do - massage/touch is perceived by each person in ways you can not even know or imagine. People don't even really know what it is doing. Why do you have to see the "order" in order to have it be an influence on someone else???? You mind has very little to do with how something releases or not. You can't release anything - only the client can do that.
Kris: This is a bit off topic, but I'll touch on it any who. In regards to what my body action is an expression of, it's very important. You don't think that if I handle my body inappropriately it will affect the session? You also say, that people don't even really know what it is doing? Hell, let me add on to that: Do WE, as MT's even know what it's doing? Me thinks we've only touched the surface in regards to the benefits of massage.
As to 'order,' it's key. Has your attitude effected your massage session? Of course it has. Our mind/ body is originally one. Unfortunately, they are most often separated. I'll also say that the mind runs the body. If my mind is running my body, then that may cause the release. I'll leave this alone for now....seems we see this much differently and at least to me, has very little to do with the topic. Perhaps another topic for another day...
Julie: Occasionally I will have slow periods. It is usually only because I get too tired or want to work on my sites or something else comes up. It is only my thoughts and desires that get in the way of attracting my ideal client. To get out of my slow period all I usually do is to start thinking about all the things that I will do - call old clients, call doctors or write a newsletter. The only thing that keeps clients way is really your beliefs about success, work , money.
Kris: Ok. You say that the only thing that keeps clients away is our beliefs. Where are these pesky beliefs? In our mind of course. You mentioned in the previous paragraph that the mind doesn't cause the release of the client, but does effect how we obtain clients. Hmmm............I see it affecting everything. Our perception is our reality. Do you 'believe' in the law of attraction? Another topic for another time, I suppose ;)
Julie: Boundaries are not just barriers. Boundaries are what keep you and your client safe. They are what will keep you from burning out.
Kris: No disagreement here. How it pertains to our discussion, I dunno, but I like it ;)
Julie: When I work on people who are less than my ideal client I don't do my best work. It drains my energy rather than inspires me.
Kris: Isn't this transference or your attitude? From my humble point of view, this comes from attempting to heal or fix someone. When I'm the conduit, energy just flows. It moves. Have you already set it in your mind that, 'this is not my ideal client,' then it's your attitude that changes the flavor of your work? Just my opinion, of course...
Julie: The people I turned away yesterday were mainly difficult ins. billing cases and one person who wanted maintenance massage and one cash paying client who was unable to change his day to accommodate a change in my schedule. When I am working on my ideal client I am just much happier overall and better off financially so I don't have to worry about paying the bills!
Kris: Isn't this comment above all about you and not client? Don't get me wrong, we need to make money to survive. Yet what I'm seeing is that you are happy when it's about you, and un happy when it's not. How about a line from the television show, The Mentalist: "If you stop seeing the world in terms of what you like and dislike, and saw things for what they truly are, in themselves, you would have a great deal more peace in your life..." How about if we just release the tiller and flow with the mojo? :-) Do our best work and leave it at that?
Julie: Some other boundaries that I have implemented that made radical changes in my practice was to stop giving advice to people and just focus on listening. I used to always talk more to people during their session and now I just shut up and listen. The results are dramatic really.
Kris: Nice. Yes, just listen! Yet have you noticed that 'just listening' only gets us so far? We have to add our two cents worth due to the fact that everyone wants this, this conversation, yet never heeds advice ;) It's not what we say, but how we say it ;) This is what I've learned. I can be harsh yet professional. I can be friendly yet slice through the drama. How I do it is the key.
Julie: I am still not sure what you are referring to with the wink and nod - if you are talking about dating clients that is a whole other thing. It is actually illegal here in WA and I wish it were that way in all states for massage therapists.
Kris: I dunno what the rules are here. I don't date clients either so it's a non-issue.
What I was referring to were off-color comments. Sexual comments. Comments from people that may be embarrassed about their bodies and don't know what else to say. It's not our reply but how we reply to them. If someone wants to throw the client out the door for an off color comment, that's their right. I prefer to handle it in a client by client manner. The point I was making (obviously not very well) was, does this action by the client enforce ones 'set-in-stone' beliefs, or does it open our mind to the fact that clients and people, and in general will make such comments and it's how we react that matters.
I'd certainly like others feedback on this. Once again, I don't see this as right or wrong on either side. It could well be that I'm not getting my point across. Perhaps I need to get the video camera out and record a bit of role playing as a demonstration of what I do.
Best wishes,
Kris -
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There are just too many topics and discussions in this thread for anyone to follow and comment and for me to continue commenting.
Yes having a vision of my ideal client is about me and it has to be. Taking care of myself in my number one priority in every way -financially, mentally, emotionally, physically. If I don't I won't be any good to anyone. I have been severely burned out and physically sick from being a massage therapist and not having any clear boundaries in my work.
You say you have professional friendships with your clients which I would guess you have created boundaries for yourself to keep them professional. I am guess that a part of our problem here is in defining friends and the various levels of friendship. No matter what the level or definition though becoming friends with clients creates dynamics that influence and may jeopardize the client/therapist relationship. That is what supervision is for - to deal with those things.
Start reading "The Educated Heart", The Ethics of Touch, Issues and Ethics in the Helping Professions, The Psychology of the Body, if you really want to learn more about how dual relationships affect client relationships.
If you didn't think people would discuss this then why did you post it? It sounds like your friend just didn't have the elevator speech prepared and has confidence issues in talking about what she does which just comes with practice. Boundaries is an ongoing thing as each situation comes up with clients and is a process of becoming aware of your own needs and values and making decisions that support your values.
Julie -
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J: There are just too many topics and discussions in this thread for anyone to follow and comment...
K: Really? I'm following along just fine :-)
J: and for me to continue commenting.
K: Okay.
J: Yes having a vision of my ideal client is about me and it has to be. Taking care of myself in my number one priority in every way -financially, mentally, emotionally, physically. If I don't I won't be any good to anyone. I have been severely burned out and physically sick from being a massage therapist and not having any clear boundaries in my work.
K: Understood. I'm sure you've learned a lot from the experience.
J: You say you have professional friendships with your clients which I would guess you have created boundaries for yourself to keep them professional. I am guess that a part of our problem here is in defining friends and the various levels of friendship.
K: Agreed.
J: No matter what the level or definition though becoming friends with clients creates dynamics that influence and may jeopardize the client/therapist relationship. That is what supervision is for - to deal with those things.
K: Bleh. Walking out the door and getting hit by a bus may jeopardize our relationship as well. :) Be careful with the, "No matter what" type comments.
J: Start reading "The Educated Heart", The Ethics of Touch, Issues and Ethics in the Helping Professions, The Psychology of the Body, if you really want to learn more about how dual relationships affect client relationships.
K: Thanks, but no thanks. I'm quite well versed in this, and what the authors in the books above may say, I may still interpret differently than you do. If I have further questions I have local experts that will work with me and their material. Reading and practice, face to face.
I don't want to beat this to death, but since you mentioned books..................
Book learning, like any other sort of second-hand learning, while perfect for things of an academic nature, is far, far less than perfect for things of an experiential nature such as massage or communicating with people face to face. Can you imagine attempting to learn how to perform massage from a book, only?
Two down sides of book learning concerning things of an experiential nature are: (1) less than the full experience itself gets into the book and (2) things other than the experience itself become identified as the experience.
An intellectualization of the experience results for those receiving the information. The serious intellectual who attempts to take it all to heart can become the academic king of the words in the books and still not get the message, (or the communication skills, or how to learn to perform an actual massage,) for the study of the books relies on linear thought while the subject and message are completely non-linear.
I could carry this on a lot further, but I won't ;)
J: If you didn't think people would discuss this then why did you post it?
K: Umm.........are we reading the same post? LOL! I do want discussion.
J: It sounds like your friend just didn't have the elevator speech prepared and has confidence issues in talking about what she does which just comes with practice.
K: Bleh. Just be nice and talk. IMHO, prepared speeches never come out well. It's always a sales pitch or something that was never intended. I have all sorts of crazy things I say when peeps ask what I do. Something that attracts their attention. "Oh, I rub peoples feet for a living." "I'm a lower-back pain specialist."
On a side note, I'm not begging or even really asking clients to be my friend. I open the door with my communication skills, and if they choose to walk through it, it's up to them. Some do, some don't. Some of my clients never say five words to me. They just love my extra-super-duper-rub-a-dub-dub! LOL!
J: Boundaries is an ongoing thing as each situation comes up with clients and is a process of becoming aware of your own needs and values and making decisions that support your values.
K: Kinda-sort-of ;) I'll leave it alone ;)
Julie
Thanks again for your time!
Kris -
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So what is the therapeutic relationship to you - do you know what it is and how it works and what transference is? I am just asking because you don't seem to have an understanding of it which is why I recommended those books.
And me trying to explain it to you here isn't working because you having clients as friends is working for you. What guidelines do you use with these clients who are friends? How do you keep your massage separate from being friends?
And you didn't define friends clearly for yourself. You said you do have boundaries in place. What boundaries?
Have you ever experienced transference yourself with a massage therapist or other health care provider? I don't think you really get it until you have. It is actually in the transference that heals and having boundaries is what allows it to happen when someone is transferring.
Julie -
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